Warren Gatland puts his foot down with the French clubs

It's about time somebody stood up to the powerhouse that is French club rugby, it looks as though Gatland is going to get tough with the French clubs and not allow Jonathan Davies and Luke Charteris to play in the play-offs of the French season, even if the clubs try and block this, Gatland can still stop Clermont and Racing from playing them. This could get very interesting, I know it is WOL, but take a read:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/warren-gatland-set-snub-clermont-11167362


How do you think Warren Gatland should play this ? Should he give in to the French, or should he stick to his guns ?

Its the top14 fault for scheduling matches during the international calendar. English clubs refuse us permission for players playing in the Aviva so I see no reason why we should bow down to the French clubs

It depends if he has a good working agreement with them and gets access to them outside of the international window now. If he doesn't then he had nothing to lose, take them on tour.

If he wants something extra from the clubs and wants to use the tour to try new options then have a dialogue. By this I mean in addition to any release secured in the players contracts.

Unlike the English clubs, the French clubs have been reasonable to a degree in the fact that racing allowed us to play Charteris in a game outside the international window where we had already lost B Davies but had to return to France earlier in the month instead. I wouldn't have taken halfpenny anyway but we need charteris and Davies for the tour so tough luck racing and clermont

True Raven wrote:Its the top14 fault for scheduling matches during the international calendar.  English clubs refuse us permission for players playing in the Aviva so I see no reason why we should bow down to the French clubs

English clubs refuse access on weeks outside the International window. Reasons for this are much discussed. This is a whole new ball game though and Gatland/WRU can prevent players playing in any game that falls within an international window. Of course should they follow through with this, then the obvious response from T14 will be to prevent the additional access they currently allow Wales to have in and around the AIs and 6Ns.

True Raven wrote:Unlike the English clubs, the French clubs have been reasonable to a degree

I suspect we will never agree who has been reasonable in the debate between WRU and PRL. Needless to say I do not believe that the entity which refused to a) Speak to the other b) Cover player insurance for additional access c) make any compensation offer at all were being reasonable.

Jonathan Davies and Luke Charteris will not be playing in France next season anyway, so I cannot see what Gatland has to lose here.

LordDowlais wrote:Jonathan Davies and Luke Charteris will not be playing in France next season anyway, so I cannot see what Gatland has to lose here.

What he could potentially lose is the goodwill of any T14 clubs. However as the number of Welsh players in T14 is unlikely to be high in the future, you are probably right and he has little to lose.

Charteris is a funny one. He claimed to have full release agreed when he signed the contract.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/17217346

But then had to do a deal to be released for one game outside the window a year later, so was still only available for three games in the AI.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/perpignan-set-release-luke-charteris-2023082

Hammer I think a few of them said they had full release in their contracts but didn't...im sure hook and Paul James were two of them. In fact we tried to play James outside the window and bath agreed only for them to have a talking too by PRL and reject the request afterwards. Only north seemed to have made sure full release was available and PRL punished Northampton for it

Thing is, if players want to be able to tell their employer they'll be unavailable for additional time they can expect less money. And none of them want to have that so they don't bother. North is the only one to have the balls to do it. The interesting part will be whether his new contract has it or not.

Haskell and Palmer had them with Stade and they played holy hell with it so the French clubs may refuse these days (and the players want the money).

That lad Gats is never happy. First he moans about Pro12 not being good enough to keep his Welsh Internationals up to the right conditioning levels to play International.

So a lot of the Welsh boyos take the hint and march off to foreign climes to be educated in the ways of Real-Man rugby, with the hard slogs and long schedules of tough games................

............... now Gats says his original theory is all wrong and he'd much prefer the Welsh boys to be back in the Pro Mickey-Mouse 12, where they can get a good night's kip in their cottonwool jammies.......

Make up your mind Gats!

If both clubs and the international teams to stick their respective windows and stop scheduling games outside them, and generaly playing too much then these issues would largely go away.
Problem is the French clubs have pretty much sidelined their own national side into an afterthought, whereas the WRU are entirely reliant on shoehorning in extra games to the schedule to pay their central contracts...and the side can only stay comeptitive by having the additional training and rest time together. France are getting left behind in the 6 nations because the club game is king, Wales seem to have the opposite problem.
In between Gatland enjoys huffing and puffing. Its not an easy job.

Surely Davies and Charteris want to play in the finals if they get there. Maybe a backlash from the players that Gatland is denying them a chance to play in the finals? Having said that, it would be nice to have someone standing up to these clubs.

I think Gatland might ask the players whether or not they want to play in the finals with their club. That said, if they say yes will that annoy Gatland and put their squad places at the risk? I think it's something he might do, despite them both being his favourites.

As a sidenote, Charteris may miss some/all of the tour as his partner is due to give birth.

SecretFly wrote:That lad Gats is never happy.  First he moans about Pro12 not being good enough to keep his Welsh Internationals up to the right conditioning levels to play International.  

So a lot of the Welsh boyos take the hint and march off to foreign climes to be educated in the ways of Real-Man rugby, with the hard slogs and long schedules of tough games................

............... now Gats says his original theory is all wrong and he'd much prefer the Welsh boys to be back in the Pro Mickey-Mouse 12, where they can get a good night's kip in their cottonwool jammies.......

Make up your mind Gats!

Or....Or, third scenario: come home to the Mickey Mouse Pro12 with its poor conditioning, away from the good conditioning but bad player access of France, where we'll do the blo@dy conditioning ourselves!

(Just to point out I'm not in the Pro 12 Mickey Mouse camp. I like our league. It's much more Goofy, if anything, than Mickey Mouse )

Pro 12 is a pretty good league. Different style to Aviva and Top 14 that seem to be more forward orientated. The money is the big issue going forward but Ulster and Leinster are not having too many issues attracting top players at the moment.

Anyway, Wales have to be careful as really they always seem to book matches outside of the window and some of these clubs will remember this next time it goes on. On the other hand it may hurt the value of Welsh players and help keep them in Wales going forward. They have every right to ask their players to play especially against the All Blacks.

For the French clubs, they shifted fixtures back for the World Cup so feel slightly bad for them but they must have known this would have been a problem. World Rugby really should have pushed the window back a week or two. They cancelled the November internationals and maybe a shorter Summer window would have made sense as well.

Hazel Sapling wrote:They cancelled the November internationals and maybe a shorter Summer window would have made sense as well.

All Blacks would have truly gone apeshit then as they would have lost out on income for (edit: another) one of their home games.

SecretFly wrote:That lad Gats is never happy.  First he moans about Pro12 not being good enough to keep his Welsh Internationals up to the right conditioning levels to play International.  

So a lot of the Welsh boyos take the hint and march off to foreign climes to be educated in the ways of Real-Man rugby, with the hard slogs and long schedules of tough games................

............... now Gats says his original theory is all wrong and he'd much prefer the Welsh boys to be back in the Pro Mickey-Mouse 12, where they can get a good night's kip in their cottonwool jammies.......

Make up your mind Gats!

I'm happy he's Welsh coach, and don't want him to e sacked, BUT I agree with you.  Gatland seems to be one of those people who makes things up as he goes along.  I remember He had the players during the 2011 World cup, so the regions lost their players at the start, they did the World Cup, had a rest at Gatland's request after it, the players became available for the 6 Nations, then the first week back for their regions, he did an interview in the Western Mail moaning that the regions shouldn't "over use" the players at the end of the season as Wales had an important tour at the end of the season!  When EXACTLY were they supposed to play for the regions?  He can be a complete clown at times. As an Ospreys season ticket holder at the time I was wondering if I was actually going to see the players the region had advertised who'd be playing for them. No disrespect but the marquee players on the leaflets to sell the Ospreys merchandise should at least have a few games! Thankfully the regions basically told Gatland to shove it, as he's had them for the World Cup, and 6 Nations and it was only fair they put a bit of effort in for their bread and butter teams now.

I would have sympathy with Gatland complaining about French clubs playing in international window if Wales stuck to the agreed window themselves.

Let us hope that if and when a new world season is agreed it is a requirement that both clubs AND countries stick to it.

..and that players from whatever Nation, and wherever they play, should not be coaxed or cajoled or bribed into missing call-ups from their Nations. And if such practices happen, that the clubs involved get serious fines to dissuade them from the practice in future.

It's not the 'free choices' of players to accept financial awards in preferment to playing for their nations ... it's cynical bribery by the club involved and should be called such.

Exiledinborders wrote:I would have sympathy with Gatland complaining about French clubs playing in international window if Wales stuck to the agreed window themselves.

Let us hope that if and when a new world season is agreed it is a requirement that both clubs AND countries stick to it.

I was thinking the same. With this England match scheduled for the same weekend as the Pro12 Final, it is a bit rich for Gats to start getting stroppy about access to players. I do wonder, seeing the attitude Gats seems to have, where if the Scarlets were to make the final (long shot now I know) if he would withdraw the NDC players from the Scarlets.