Aviva Premiership - Round 20

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Table



Fixtures

Fri 15th Apr 16
19:45 Gloucester Rugby  v   Exeter Chiefs Kingsholm BT Sport


Sat 16th Apr 16
15:00 Worcester Warriors  v   Wasps Sixways
15:15 Saracens  v   Harlequins Wembley Stadium BT Sport
17:30 Northampton Saints  v  Leicester Tigers Franklin's Gardens BT Sport


Sun 17th Apr 16
14:30 Sale Sharks  v   Bath Rugby AJ Bell Stadium
15:00 Newcastle Falcons  v   London Irish   Kingston Park BT Sport





Previews

The weekend starts with Exeter, fresh from the agonising defeat in Europe travelling to Kingsholm with their hosts in a horrendous run of form. With a misfiring lineout, a scrum that is creaking and most of the star backs injured, Gloucester look certain to extend their losing streak and heap the pressure onto DoR Humphreys as he fights to keep his job. I was going to say something fatuous like "sport always has the capacity for an upset" but you know what, with Exeter needing the win to keep ahead of Wasps, I fully expect us to see a plethora of maul drives and more tries for Waldrom. Exeter with a TBP

Speaking of Wasps, they travel to Sixfields to face a team with nothing to play for. When fired up Worcester can be highly combative and possess real threat in their largely antipodean backline. However when not fully focused they can be torn apart. I expect to see the latter and a big win for Wasps.

Sarries and Quins meet at Wembley knowing that despite winning at the weekend, both were guilty of extremely sloppy play and were a long way from their best. Quins have tended to struggle a little with Sarries style, and with McCall and Sanderson probably having fired several grenades up the Sarries players arses in training there is no reason to expect a break from the trend. Quins need the win to stay in play-off contention, but lack a controlling presence at 10 to combat the feociousness we can expect from Sarries. Win for the champions, but maybe not a TBP.

For once the Est Midlands derby is not the biggest game of the weekend, however as usual still huge amounts riding on this match. Saints simply have to win else there season is as good as over. Tigers know they can afford to lose and still have the play-offs in their own hands (unless Saints get the TBP and Tigers nothing) but will be desperate to do the double over their now second closest rivals. Saints will know that they let themselves down at the weekend, when a strangely lacklustre Sarries were ripe for picking, but their fate may rest in just how many players they can bring back in, and whether Jim Mallinder has the balls to trust his son. Scrums will be interesting as at times both sides struggled at the weekend.

With Sale losing to Montpelier at the weekend, their trip to Bath has been re-arranged a second time and will now be held on 23rd April rater than this Wednesday. Perhaps makes this particular fixture slightly less interesting, but better that there is not a 3 day turnaround. Sale can still make the top 4, but need to win both matches against Bath to stay in the running, while bath need to win both just to putthe pressure on for Top 6. On current form Sale should win this one.

And to the big one. The crunch relegation game with Irish travelling to the North East. Both teams have been seriously misfiring and I doubt anyone would be willing to stake money on how this game will go.

Well done Tigers. Two really awful tries and so many weak and missed tackles cost us. That scrum was a complete mess. How can a scrum fall down before feed if nobody is pushing?

No, sorry Hanrahan deliberately threw the ball up in the air so he could obstruct the advancing player

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:wouldn't have made a difference but how was deliberately tackling the man well off the ball and thus stopping the support not a yellow card

He was running in line looking for a pass that didn't come. He wasn't going to get back round and into the breakdown before the supporting Saints. He also ran straight at a defender, TV is onside there's no reason he should have to dive out the way, what if the tackled player makes a miracle offload? Then he's allowed a certain try. Ref handled it fine.

Scottrf the scrum was a complete farce and was an ongoing war before the ball got anywhere near it. Ref needed to sort that early and didn't.

Scottrf wrote:Well done Tigers. Two really awful tries and so many weak and missed tackles cost us. That scrum was a complete mess. How can a scrum fall down before feed if nobody is pushing?

I think the ref ruined the game tbh, the fact we had 1 completed scrum says it all. I thought he penalised things he could of let go and didn't ping some things he should off.

He was also poor in his communication with players

Yeah I think Wigglesworth is poor but heard enough ref whinging in the crowd to not repeat it here. Our fans were grating on me today.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:wouldn't have made a difference but how was deliberately tackling the man well off the ball and thus stopping the support not a yellow card

He was running in line looking for a pass that didn't come. He wasn't going to get back round and into the breakdown before the supporting Saints. He also ran straight at a defender, TV is onside there's no reason he should have to dive out the way, what if the tackled player makes a miracle offload? Then he's allowed a certain try. Ref handled it fine.

Scottrf the scrum was a complete farce and was an ongoing war before the ball got anywhere near it. Ref needed to sort that early and didn't.

Sorry, can't agree, your saying it is okay to tackle a player that hasn't got the ball just in case he might receive a pass. If someone is making a dummy run, then okay. By your argument you could take out a winger as soon as the 13 receives the ball.

Yeah agree. Big difference between a player inside who has been missed out and a guy outside the player with the ball. You can't pre-emptively tackle.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:wouldn't have made a difference but how was deliberately tackling the man well off the ball and thus stopping the support not a yellow card

He was running in line looking for a pass that didn't come. He wasn't going to get back round and into the breakdown before the supporting Saints. He also ran straight at a defender, TV is onside there's no reason he should have to dive out the way, what if the tackled player makes a miracle offload? Then he's allowed a certain try. Ref handled it fine.

Scottrf the scrum was a complete farce and was an ongoing war before the ball got anywhere near it. Ref needed to sort that early and didn't.

Sorry, can't agree, your saying it is okay to tackle a player that hasn't got the ball just in case he might receive a pass. If someone is making a dummy run, then okay. By your argument you could take out a winger as soon as the 13 receives the ball.

Wasn't he saying it was just a penalty and not a yellow?

Wigglesworth was in line with a current AP ref performance. Don't think we have stellar options with the refs at present.

Saints looked tired, particularly in the back line. Why Mallinder wasn't starting in the midfield is a mystery. I hope for their sake they mix up the back line and give some more youngsters a bash over the next two games. They need to rotate the squad more often.

Tigers tried to hard at the breakdown (particularly Croft) and gave silly pens away. I hope BOC is fit for next week and Fonua is on the bench for Croft who had an off day today. Interesting that Cockers said Leo was fit but Thacker was the mam in possession and so was retained, a refreshing change of policy from recent seasons. Should give us options for the Worcester game post Racing where I hope Evans will get his second Tigers appearance

nathan wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:wouldn't have made a difference but how was deliberately tackling the man well off the ball and thus stopping the support not a yellow card

He was running in line looking for a pass that didn't come. He wasn't going to get back round and into the breakdown before the supporting Saints. He also ran straight at a defender, TV is onside there's no reason he should have to dive out the way, what if the tackled player makes a miracle offload? Then he's allowed a certain try. Ref handled it fine.

Scottrf the scrum was a complete farce and was an ongoing war before the ball got anywhere near it. Ref needed to sort that early and didn't.

Sorry, can't agree, your saying it is okay to tackle a player that hasn't got the ball just in case he might receive a pass. If someone is making a dummy run, then okay. By your argument you could take out a winger as soon as the 13 receives the ball.

Wasn't he saying it was just a penalty and not a yellow?

I was saying that if you stand your ground and hit a player running into you without the ball then a card would be very harsh indeed. If TV doesn't make such a dominant hit then he maybe gets nothing at all but because he's got so low ready for a pass that doesn't come he's in too good a position not to dominate contact.

How much money are Saint paying Matfield? I don't think he's had a great game at all this season.

Agree. Doesn't look like his hearts in it, especially in contact. Don't know if it was designed to share his line out experience there as he does lead them in lineouts and make all the calls, but hard to say the performances justify whatever money he's on.

Sounds a bit like JdV at tigers although he isn't on a lot of money and has been mentoring the centres.

Also reading on Twitter that the saints fans were booing the tigers player of the pitch, any truth in that?

He just doesn't look physically ready for the AP. At his age I don't think he's going to get there either. More of a coaching role would probably suit him better. Does he have a contract for next season?

Also do we need a rule change on tackling, do people think Manu's tackle was dangerous? Can refs just ignore the law like they do with many others?

This isn't a pro tigers/anti saints thing either, I just mean in general where the player lands in his back. His back never goes beyond horizontal but his legs are in the air pointing upwards

I think it's a one season thing, but not 100% sure. I think we'll have to get rid to bring in Picamoles.

Scottrf wrote:I think it's a one season thing, but not 100% sure. I think we'll have to get rid to bring in Picamoles.

With the re-emergence of Craig you are well stocked at lock. Depends how much Matfield is on and what other signings you have as the cap is going up.

Nathan, I think JDV has been very committed when playing but his body just isn't up to AP rugby. Remember the Quins game where he was scrapping with Easter and throwing himself desperately at Yarde to try and stop the try even though it meant getting a face full of boot.

Very true, but I've heard he has been brilliant at mentoring our centres including Manu

Mallinder blaming the ref then...

Laughable that he's inferring tigers were trying to slow the ball down

He said the game not the ball. The way your players amble to every lineout at the pace of a pensioner. Something Sarries like to do against us too.

It's laughable that you think it was just tigers that were like that. Clearly saints were too. Malinder has become like the cockers of old.

Outstanding performance by Tom Wood in a losing cause I thought. Seemed to be absolutely everywhere, making tackles, smashing rucks and even the odd break. I know Motm goes to th ewinning side 99% of the time, but for me that should have been the 1%.

LondonTiger wrote:Outstanding performance by Tom Wood in a losing cause I thought. Seemed to be absolutely everywhere, making tackles, smashing rucks and even the odd break. I know Motm goes to th ewinning side 99% of the time, but for me that should have been the 1%.

Have to agree, thought he was excellent

Well done Sarries. Even when strangely poor you were far too good for us.

Quins just baffling really, really baffling. Totally wrong gameplan and then executed it terribly.

Thought the refs performance was good though, no issues with it.

Lastly well done Wade! 6 tries in a game is a hell of an achievement.

LondonTiger wrote:Outstanding performance by Tom Wood in a losing cause I thought. Seemed to be absolutely everywhere, making tackles, smashing rucks and even the odd break. I know Motm goes to th ewinning side 99% of the time, but for me that should have been the 1%.

Agreed. Wood and Harrison in combination are difficult to play against with any fluency. Had Saint got a functioning back line we could have been in trouble. Both sticking their hands up for the summer tour.

nathan wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:wouldn't have made a difference but how was deliberately tackling the man well off the ball and thus stopping the support not a yellow card

He was running in line looking for a pass that didn't come. He wasn't going to get back round and into the breakdown before the supporting Saints. He also ran straight at a defender, TV is onside there's no reason he should have to dive out the way, what if the tackled player makes a miracle offload? Then he's allowed a certain try. Ref handled it fine.

Scottrf the scrum was a complete farce and was an ongoing war before the ball got anywhere near it. Ref needed to sort that early and didn't.

Sorry, can't agree, your saying it is okay to tackle a player that hasn't got the ball just in case he might receive a pass. If someone is making a dummy run, then okay. By your argument you could take out a winger as soon as the 13 receives the ball.

Wasn't he saying it was just a penalty and not a yellow?

Nathan, I thought the penalty was for not releasing the ball carrier. The tackle on I think Haywood stopped him getting to the breakdown and either clearing out the tackler or allowing quick possession. It wasn't a mistake, TV knew what he was doing and it happened after the ball carrier was already on the floor, he made no attempt to pull out of the hit. If Haywood had received the ball and kicked it, a tackle that late would have been a yellow.

It happens all the time and is often quite deliberate, I have even seen Saints do it on occasions (there's an admission from me) and it needs to be clamped down on, maybe make it a citing offence as the ref is usually too tied up watching the breakdown to notice them.

Something else that really annoys the hell out of me is dummy runners acting as blockers for a 10 or other running laterally. I know a player does not have to move to allow the opposition past, but when they set up position and then the ball carrier runs across behind them they are taking men out of the game and interfering with play. Sarries are the best at this but Tigers are pretty good at it as well. When does it become obstruction? In my opinion, when it is deliberate and is designed to corral the defending players in a box where they cannot get to the ball carrier. Effectively they are running interference, we are not playing American football.

What happened to Manu? One very dodgy tackle and a great pass to put in Burns was all I saw of him, Betham even seems to have taken on the HD tackling role, he looks to be a great player, seems to have everything. If he watches Prince Harry carefully he could become even better.

Agree the ref was awful, naturally I will say he favoured Tigers, but I can see the opposite agreement. He is just weak, he lets the players talk back. Watson got a two week suspension for swearing at the 4th official about a decision, the commentator had to apologise for Ayerza's language picked up on the refs mike, who was he swearing at or about? Mallinder should have been YC for sliding in on Burns, but then both Burns for retaliation ( you can't strike somebody about the head but you can kneel on them with support form your team mates holding him down and attempt to pull their hair out? It took Prince Harry five minute to get the style back again), big girls blouse, hair pulling. Croft should have gone too for an even worse example of leading with the knee.

How many penalties can a side give away before a YC is shown, Sarries where in the 20s earlier and Tigers must have been up close to 20.

Thackers try was amazing, bad defence, but TY is going to struggle to get his shirt back when fit, Thacker can even throw in to the lineout straight, well mostly straight, the first one was aimed at Burns.

Credit has to go to Harrison and Wood who I thought dominated the game, they stopped Tigers from getting any go forward, made a nuisance of themselves at the breakdown and made some good carries as well. Agree with LT, Wood was the best player on the pitch yesterday. WHY oh WHY does Mallinder have to take players playing well off the pitch at prescribed times, Harrison was playing well, did not appear to be injured and he takes him off to bring on Nutley, WHY??????????

The tackle off the ball latish on (TV?) was penalised i believe.

Wigglesworth is a pedantic ref who misses big things, but probably has more control than Carley who was meant to have the game. I felt Wigglesworth was guessing at scrum time. Brookes was trying to drive inwards all the time, Ayerza was letting him then trying to drive through him, Cole had his feet too far back and Waller kept twisting and dropping. All 4 could have been penalised at pretty much every scrum but Wigglesworth had no idea so guessed an rotated decisions.

i thought Harrison had gone very quiet and was slowing down when he was replaced.

Ayerza and Haywood were exchanging views at every scrum I believe.

TV was penalised for the late hit and it was reviewed for a possible yellow card. I still hold Haywood was getting nowhere near the breakdown having run such a flat support line and ran straight into TV. Should TV stand up and let himself get taken out leaving the blindside open? I think he made the right call, if you concede a pen there then so be it.

I think Croft would have gone had Mallinder not got away with no sanction for his cheap shot on Burns. Croft summed up his afternoon with that challenge, reckless and without thought. I'd have rather had the academy lad Evans who played in the Glaws game.

Manu had a quiet game, one big carry and being pinged for a nothing challenge aside he was only used as a decoy. Not one for the centres as Burrell created one and then gave one away with Pisi anonymous. Only Betham really showed up.

Evans was playing for England U19s

AP games take precedent over international age grade games but I suppose he was not in the right part of the country when it was decided BOC wasn't well enough to play. Croft needs to focus before Racing as those mistakes won't be forgiven next week. Evans also not available for Europe.

Well I've checked in. The sun is shining but there's a bit of a wind.


Come on you falcons!

Currently making a shopping list for Leicester

If Irish go down
Franks
Lewington
or if not Lewington Maitland

If Falcons go down
Wilson
Hammersley

10-6 to Falcons.

Really should be more to be honest. We've fluffed a few chances and not making the most of big meters made from the pack. Need to get more from our returns to the Irish 22 but the better side are in the lead.

Irish don't look like making a chance so far but with Maitland and Lewington in the backs theres always hope.

We have no creativity in the midfield. Its criminal. Only Hammersley is making things happen.

And how is Micky young a premiership player.

Get tukulua on!

formerly known as Sam wrote:Ayerza and Haywood were exchanging views at every scrum I believe.

TV was penalised for the late hit and it was reviewed for a possible yellow card. I still hold Haywood was getting nowhere near the breakdown having run such a flat support line and ran straight into TV. Should TV stand up and let himself get taken out leaving the blindside open? I think he made the right call, if you concede a pen there then so be it.

I think Croft would have gone had Mallinder not got away with no sanction for his cheap shot on Burns. Croft summed up his afternoon with that challenge, reckless and without thought. I'd have rather had the academy lad Evans who played in the Glaws game.

Manu had a quiet game, one big carry and being pinged for a nothing challenge aside he was only used as a decoy. Not one for the centres as Burrell created one and then gave one away with Pisi anonymous. Only Betham really showed up.

FKAS, my memory is that Haywood was a metre of so behind the tackled player and got taken out regardless of whether he had the ball or not, he did not run into TV as, 1, he was still behind the breakdown point and 2, he was tackled in a "proper manner" as they would say round my way, not running into a player and colliding. TV hit him with a perfect tackle even though he had not received the ball and the tackled player was already grounded. I thought the penalty was for the non release of the tackled player not the tackle on Haywood.

Just one of a number of dubious decisions that went against Saints by Mr. Tigersworth, Manu's lack of tackle expertise, blatant interference with the defending players tackles, Ayerza's continued reference to Haywood's bedroom activities, Burns attempt at hairdressing I could go on, but Mrs. PastIt is telling me, my dinner is ready and if I don't come quickly, my tackle will end up in the mangle as Well

Welly I don't see us being able to afford both Cole and Franks. I'd take Lewington back in a heart beat but doubt he'd return after how he was treated last time.

Why on earth didn't Tiks go for the corner. Even if he doesn't make it then Falcons have a defensive line out 5th from their line which is a great opportunity to apply pressure.

The execution in the opposition 22 from both sides is so poor. This is why we're both in this position as well as our poor defence. We're at a very similar level.

Second half all Irish but so wasteful.

Sale v Bath match stopped for an injury to Kyle Eastmond

Long delay as Eastmond is prepped for a stretcher and taken off. His neck is being protected, so that's the concern.

Sale win 29-17

Bath came back to 17-17 but Ford missed a kick to put his team ahead (Cipriani was also missing kicks) and Sale scored two late tries to grab all five points.

No word on Eastmond so far.

This really is a game of who makes the least errors, I'm so glad we offloaded Mickey Young

We are falling off far too many tackles

Mickey young is appalling Nathan.

Sale take all 5 points, now they must win next saturday at the Rec.

Young is killing us. He is taking so long to make a decision, which is invariably a box kick. He isn't giving the chasers a chance though. Too far.

Have to say Barnes is really good at communicating with the players, loads better than Wigglesworth

We're just not getting into this in the 2nd half. Luckily Irish are clueless in our 22 or we'd be a few scores behind. We really need to get our hands on the ball as Irish have to score at some point.

Young off