2016 World Snooker Championship - Discussion Thread

[CaledonianCraig]

First topic message reminder :

The Crucible opens its doors to snookers greatest players on the planet for 17 days but who will end it holding the world crown?

The tournament (as is tradition) starts with the champion opening proceedings and Bingham is having early problems trailing Ali Carter 3-1. On the other table Marco Fu is in command against former champion Peter Ebdon leading 5-1.

Discuss.....

[Guest]

Perspective
a) Ding loses first part of session one: 4 - 0, with several mistakes and poor shot selection.  But draws final part of session one: 2 - 2. So seems to have now arrived in the final.
b) Dings loses first six frames but wins the last two frame, both turning the tide and creating his own tide in the process.

[temporary21]

Welcome to the party Ding, 7-4 and its game on. That first session looks to be in the rear view mirror now

[Born Slippy]

Selby just letting Ding back into this match. A few easy misses (particularly in the 7th frame). I suspect there will be no more than two frames between them overnight.

[B.A. BARACUS]

That wasn't during Hendry's dominant era in the early 90's which is quite clearly what I said, so you're arguing something that hasn't even been said.

Hendry's dominance ran into the second half of the 90s by which time Ronnie had won UK title in first half of 90s as well as a Masters and British Open title but why then if this era was so dross could Ronnie not crack a world title? Something not adding up there. Either the era wasn't such dross or Ronnie wasn't up to it but can't accept the latter as he already had titles in the bag by then.

Ronnie may have picked up a few titles during the 90s but you are not recognising that he was still a relative novice during the early to mid part of this decade.

Ronnie won his first major title in 93 at the age of 17, by the end of the decade he was only 23......experience counts for a lot and you seem to think that just because he was plying his trade at such a young age, he should have been winning everything in sight.

As for him being a 'mess' try reading his bio, he freely admits that his personal issues, i.e. father being banged up for murder, mother also sent down, etc affected him deeply and he regularly abused recreational drugs during this period.

The 90's was not pi$$ poor but it was not as strong an era as what we have at the moment.

The fact the likes of Higgins, Williams etc were not winning in the 90's is down to the fact they were novice professionals - you can't expect them to turn pro and start winning world titles straight off the bat.

[B.A. BARACUS]

That isn't even an argument, the early 90's was horrendously poor; it had Hendry, a couldn't care Davis and serial bottler White, that was it yet you concentrate on today when it is far far stronger. You seem to mistake people not enjoying watching Selby and Dott as people saying they're bad players when they're not, Bingham and Hawkins from what i've seen have very few negatives attached to them.

I wouldn't label White a serial bottler.....he had the misfortune, if you can call it that, to come up against two of the greatest players in Davis and White whilst he was trying to bag titles.

It should also be said that he lacked the professionalism and dedication of Davis and Hendry and that is another reason for his underachievement.

Having watched all his world finals, i would only say that he bottled the one in 94, where he missed a simple black in the deciding frame.

In 84 he came storming back against Steve Davis and made some exceptional clearances under pressure to push Davis all the way.

In 91, parrott played the game of his life to beat him.

The 92 final is more of a mixed bag. Jimmy played fantastic to go 14-8 up but Hendry simply ran away with it after that, winning 10 frames in a row.

I recently revisited this final on youtube and i wouldn't say Jimmy 'bottled' it.

He definitely pushed the boat out a few times and went for shots he shouldn't have, when he perhaps should've played safe but that was how he played and he also had a habit of playing to the gallery when he should have been more conservative with his decisions.

In 93 Hendry simply hammered him.

[B.A. BARACUS]

I'm out, I cannot lower myself any more to your level stupidity.

Yes normally the way when you don't have the answers. I'll await you getting back to me when you have worked out how such a dross time for snooker and yet Ronnie had EIGHT cracks at the world title and couldn't win one.

Its quite simple.

Ronnie turned pro in 92 at 16 - Hendry's prime.

Hendry's dominance started to wane by 97 when he lost his first final to Ken Doherty.

That leaves 97-99, by which time Higgins, Williams etc were starting to come of age.

Considering all this, i think Ronnie can be excused for not bagging a world title during this decade

I mean can you really expect a young man, barely out of his teens, with a well known history of personal problems during this era to have what it takes to keep it together for 17 days and then beat the GOAT in his prime?

Yes he beat him in the UK champs in 93 but that is a completely different format

[B.A. BARACUS]

All the safety has been perfect from mark ball on a string right now. It's just about the worst player ding could play with some nerves

That is Selby's game though - top notch match play snooker. Keep it tight when out of position and wait for the chances that will come your way. It has served him well throughout his career.

Matchplay....if you say so.

As an example, in the very first frame of this match, Selby made a mess of two clear cut chances to win the frame - each time he missed he played safe and left Ding under the baulk cushion - is this matchplay snooker?

Perhaps all the top player should adopt this style...make a stuttering 20-30 break and then play safe.

I'd predict snooker would die a slow death if they did.

Have to admit, Selby's knowledge of the table is exceptional....he really is a tactical genius and never knows when to concede a frame.

[temporary21]

Thats the skill that noone respects.
Marks game isnt to deliberately make low breaks, he isnt playing very well, and hasnt really all championship... but hes leading in the final.

Nobody else could be here playing how he has these two weeks... hes made of iron, but that type of thing in sports isnt appreciated very much,

[B.A. BARACUS]

No i don't appreciate poor play and dragging out each frame to over an hour just because he knows it will disrupt this opponents rhythm.

In my opinion it's gamesmanship and Selby should be reprimanded for it.

Selby goes out of his way to spoil and bore his opponent into submission.

Not how the game should be played in this modern era.

[temporary21]

Lesson 1 Ding.
Pot the ball AFTER game ball for goodness sake
Those 45 minutes are bank for Mark though, that will have taken some out of Ding.

[temporary21]

He plays what is given. Hes laying snooker OFF of snookers. He nearly won it for all the violent comments over him...

If you dont like it, just go to bed, its just a game of snooker for goodness sake...

[temporary21]

Out of position again though, he really isnt in good form. Its why its getting so scrappy

[B.A. BARACUS]

If it's just a game of snooker why are you on this forum posting about it.

Did i say i didn't like it?

I actually appreciate the skill it involves but that has no relevance on the fact that i think he is deliberately slowing the game down and spoiling in order to gain an unfair advantage.

[temporary21]

Because I like to talk about, but theres no need to get upset over it. Its just a game in the end.

You cant gain an unfair advantage by playing the game to the entirety of its rules, you certainly cant be reprimanded...

if Dings leaving a snooker master needing just one snooker, then hes invited himself pain.

[temporary21]

Case in point
Ding just tried to do what selby did to him but could only keep it up 5 minutes.

Mark leads 9-7, and its a key final frame for Ding

[temporary21]

Gone the other way now, if both wernt so good at laying and getting out of these, we wouldnt be getting into this type of grind.
Just like Mark, its fair play for Ding to try and get these snookers, but hes almost unsnookerable...

[temporary21]

A (very) hard days work.
The most important thing of all is that we do have a match on which didnt look likely.
With a rest, tomorrows play should be less attritional, that was belligerence from both in the end...

[CaledonianCraig]

That wasn't during Hendry's dominant era in the early 90's which is quite clearly what I said, so you're arguing something that hasn't even been said.

Hendry's dominance ran into the second half of the 90s by which time Ronnie had won UK title in first half of 90s as well as a Masters and British Open title but why then if this era was so dross could Ronnie not crack a world title? Something not adding up there. Either the era wasn't such dross or Ronnie wasn't up to it but can't accept the latter as he already had titles in the bag by then.

Ronnie may have picked up a few titles during the 90s but you are not recognising that he was still a relative novice during the early to mid part of this decade.

Ronnie won his first major title in 93 at the age of 17, by the end of the decade he was only 23......experience counts for a lot and you seem to think that just because he was plying his trade at such a young age, he should have been winning everything in sight.

As for him being a 'mess' try reading his bio, he freely admits that his personal issues, i.e. father being banged up for murder, mother also sent down, etc affected him deeply and he regularly abused recreational drugs during this period.

The 90's was not pi$$ poor but it was not as strong an era as what we have at the moment.

The fact the likes of Higgins, Williams etc were not winning in the 90's is down to the fact they were novice professionals - you can't expect them to turn pro and start winning world titles straight off the bat.  

Ronnie had won a number of big tournaments pre-1994 and also by the mid to late 90s had reached three Crucible semis so evidently was in very decent nick. Now I would readily accept he wasn't ready IF he hadn't already won two of the biggest three tournaments around at that time, IF some people (not you) wouldn't continuously label the early 90s as dross and then try to say Ronnie wasn't ready when you evidently are if you are winning majors and reaching Crucible semis especially if certain people see him as a GOAT.

Also people too readily diss players of today (not me) yet others say this time is strong for snooker talent-wise. I can't work that out when you look how much people seemingly don't rate Selby, Ding, Bingham, Fu et al.

[CaledonianCraig]

If it's just a game of snooker why are you on this forum posting about it.

Did i say i didn't like it?

I actually appreciate the skill it involves but that has no relevance on the fact that i think he is deliberately slowing the game down and spoiling in order to gain an unfair advantage.

Spoiling? Slowing down? I never knew there was a shot clock in snooker now. Snooker is a game played in many different and varying styles and tactics and players are entitled to deploy whatever tactics they want in order to get frames on the board. Did the ref warn Selby or did Ding complain? No. In fact Ding himself can play slow as well also Trump got angered by earlier in the tournament so I wouldn'the say it would have bothered Ding too much at all.

[CaledonianCraig]

I am working so will miss the climax of the final but although Ding has battled back into contention I still think the tactical brain and big match nerve of Selby will see him through.

[temporary21]

Dings done so well to get back into this match. He might just be favourite now

[temporary21]

As I say that. Ding misses a sitter

[Hammersmith harrier]

Selby will be favourite for as long as he's not behind by too many, if they're near parity he's still a big big favourite.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Ding ever got in the lead Selby would just stink the place out until he thought ..."Bollox there is more to life than snooker he can have it !!"

Let's hope this is the last final Selby is in..

[temporary21]

Delay fights back from the poor opening session and takes a 3 frame lead into the last session...

The toughest competitor is often the most deserved. He'll be putting a few people into a spiralling depression it seems though

[TRUSSMAN66]

You're enjoying it...

Fairplay to you...You like Selby and your man is doing well.

Me I like watching more interesting players..

Each to their own....

[temporary21]

Each to their own...

I dont judge people based on their sporting tastes... I just like good matches

I just to sit back and watch good players without whining...

Try the bbc snooker hashtag maybe...

[TRUSSMAN66]

You're a fan boy. ..."He's a great match player" ..etc..

He's a boring stinker...Who's stunk the Chinese lad out..

But fairplay. .

[temporary21]

If youre gonna be a 5 year old the whole time, because i dont hate the player you hate, then dont bother watching...

Clearly his success, and people objectively noting it is making you petulant so why dont you just stop before you go too far.

People can like things you dont without being given sh*t, if you cant deal with that then you know whats gonna happen.

[temporary21]

Actually Ive just come up with a much much better idea.

[TRUSSMAN66]

We don't agree it's fair enough...

As i'm only really interested in World titles and not a snooker bum..I'LL bid you farewell..

If we are both on here next year we'll debate then..

Take care buddy..

[CaledonianCraig]

Anyone who cannot see Selby is a great match play player does not know their snooker. Ask Ronnie he has lost to Selby twice at the Crucible.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Let's agree you're right..

Like Hammer I can't be arsed with you either.

Take care..

[Guest]

Anyone who cannot see Selby is a great match play player does not know their snooker. Ask Ronnie he has lost to Selby twice at the Crucible.

In this years World Championship past all time greats such as Steve Davies & Stephen Hendry are saying he is the world's best match play player. There is no need to respond to baiters.

[Y I Man]

I hope this goes all the way tonight. Ding has been brilliant throughout the tournament. In saying that I still don't think Selby has been at his best. But playing poorly and still reaching the final is how champions are made

[temporary21]

I cant see it now, but it would a great moment for Ding to be the first

[Guest]

16-11 to Selby.  It's a question now of whether Selby wins by 18-11 or 18-12 or 18-13 or 18-14.  I reckon 18-12.

[Y I Man]

16-11 to Selby.  It's a question now of whether Selby wins by 18-11 or 18-12 or 18-13 or 18-14.  I reckon 18-12.

Anything I s possible. Don't forget Ding came back from 6-0 down at the start

[Hammersmith harrier]

16-11 to Selby.  It's a question now of whether Selby wins by 18-11 or 18-12 or 18-13 or 18-14.  I reckon 18-12.

Anything I s possible.  Don't forget Ding came back from 6-0 down at the start

He didn't really though, at no point has he had parity since the start.

[B.A. BARACUS]

You're a fan boy. ..."He's a great match player" ..etc..

He's a boring stinker...Who's stunk the Chinese lad out..

But fairplay. .

Couldn't agree more.

Should he win Selby would be the the most undeserving champion for many a year.

Selby has had a ridiculously easy draw to get to the final and even his opponent Ding had to qualify.

It really is coming to something when a player can win a world title by avoiding the top players.

His highest ranking opponent has been Marco Fu who is ranked 14 - obviously he can only beat the player in front of him but that doesn't mean his route to the final cannot be judged as comfortable.

As i said yesterday, Selby has perfected the art of spoiling and frustrating his opponents into submission.

It works for him so fair play BUT as a spectacle it leaves a sour taste in my mouth

[Y I Man]

The Ding comeback on again. Never count this lad out, he's had a brilliant tournament
16-13

[temporary21]

Tbh thats a little sour grapes.

Dings not done yet though, this could still be a classic

[temporary21]

Oh steve... thats a tearjerker

[Y I Man]

Excellent frame from Ding for 16-14.
He brought out the reds at the perfect times

[temporary21]

The biggest hump here is tht Diing has fallen off a cliff whenever he gets to within 1. Can he buck that

[B.A. BARACUS]

If the frame goes long, Selby becomes a strong favourite.

Selby looks like he has got this in the bag.

Pot a red and roll up behind a colour......welcome to the Selby brand of modern day snooker

[temporary21]

What a night this will be for Selby given whats just happened in the football if he finishes up this break.

Nice to see some sports still reward some toughness and not just biffing. This would be well deserved

[Hammersmith harrier]

That wasn't in doubt the moment Selby won the first few frames and in reality it looked a lot closer than it actually was.

[temporary21]

Two time champion, to go with his triple crown.

Ding making a mockery of his ranking and suggestions he was bottling it. He was not far off at all.

Cya all next year, hope to God that Ronnie doesnt go out early again

[Y I Man]

Well done Selby, not a classic but congrats anyways

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