Scotland's Summer Tests, 18 & 25 June

First topic message reminder :


Referee: Ben O'Keeffe (New Zealand)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

5 Played 5
0 Won 5
0 Drawn 0
5 Lost 0
55 Points 266 

B. Recent Form

23 September 2015
Scotland 45-10 Japan
Kingsholm Stadium, Gloucester

09 Nov 2013
Scotland 42 - 17 Japan
Murrayfield, Edinburgh

13 Nov 2004
Scotland 100 - 8 Japan
McDiarmid Park, Perth

12 Oct 2003
Scotland 32 - 11 Japan
Dairy Farmers Stadium, Townsville

05 Oct 1991
Scotland 47 - 9 Japan
Murrayfield, Edinburgh

C. Teams

JAPAN 
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SCOTLAND 
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SCOTLAND 

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Scotland / Japan history:

2015: Scotland 45-10 Japan, Kingsholm Stadium, Gloucester (RWC 2015)
2013: Scotland 42-17 Japan, BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh
2010: Scotland XV 24-5 Japan Select, BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh (uncapped match)
2004: Scotland 100-8 Japan, McDiarmid Park, Perth
2003: Japan 11-32 Scotland, Dairy Farmers Stadium, Townsville (RWC 2003)
1991: Scotland 47-9 Japan, BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh (RWC 1991)
1989: Japan 28-24 Scotland XV, Prince Chichibu Memorial Stadium, Tokyo (uncapped match)
1986: Scotland XV 33-18 Japan, BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh (uncapped match)
1977: Japan 9-74 Scotland XV, Olympic Stadium, Tokyo (uncapped match)
1976: Scotland XV 34-9 Japan,  BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh (uncapped match)

Scotland Squad:

RDW_Scotland wrote:So Scotland have maintained 8th place, but are only a bawhair above Argentina who are in 9th.

Given that the argies play England and Wales in the AIs it is vitally important that we beat them and prevent them getting any victories.

We could also do with them not winning any Rugby Championship games...

If we can stay ahead of them following the AIs then at least we know our fate is in our own hands heading into the 6N, with the world cup draw being after that as far as I know.

It's impossible to tell how the Rugby Championship will go.

You would take the Pumas to beat a shellshocked Wallaby side at home and also possibly this Springbok side which is the most average I have seen for a while. At least we've given ourselves a shot.

I also quite fancy us to mug the Aussies in Murrayfield in November although I am realising that we will need to put a good team out to beat Georgia.

We tend to be slow starters so in some way it is a shame we've got Australia first off.

Other then NZ the Rugby Championship is wide open this year - I don't think Australia are as bad as the series defeat to England makes out, and South Africa are still dangerous if they can work out how to play together (which they did from the 60 minute mark of the 2nd test against Ireland up until the end of the series)

Cheika is not stupid - he will drag Gitau, Horwill, Mitchell et al back over to Australia for these matches. He should also have far fewer injuries to important guys like Karmichael Hunt and David Pocock as well.

Everyone said that the Wallabies looked shaky last year and they won the whole thing.

I think the Aussies are still a very dangerous team. Their attacking game against a very strong England side still looked very sharp indeed. Having seen Scotland huff and puff in Japan I don't think we're in any shape to sensibly suggest we'll beat Australia.

I'd like to think we'll beat Georgia and I think Argentina is probably 50/50.

Chaps - sorry to use the forum for a completely personal request, but can anyone recommend a good second hand kilt place? I'm after a new (cheapish) dress Argyll or Charlie jacket and vest for a ball I've got coming up on the 9th. Some bugger's shunk mine and my blue tweed argyll won't cut the mustard this time.

Could you not just hire one if it is a one off at short notice? A jacket on its own will be around £30 to hire.

I thought I might as well buy one as I've got the ball and a wedding coming up and I'll probably need one again...

Sorry, never had the need to buy anything second hand.....

Ha and there's me thinking that was just your online persona...

Just trying to be helpful.....

Try MacGregor and MacDuff - it's an ex-hire kilt shop and does sell quite cheap. They've got a store in Glasgow and also one in Prestwick (where you'll no doubt bump into some world class rugby players). They also do visits to London if you're still down there - check their website.

Cheers - I spotted those guys

I suspect you're best off just looking online and calling places up to see what they have - it is more of a case of which shop has the one that you want instead of which is necessarily the best shop! Slanj and Kilt Hire Co are worth a try.

Even 2nd hand kilt jackets are still pretty expensive so you may end up going back to the hiring option...!

Nice one, thank you for rounding down my random google searches. I'll give them a bell.

No problem.

So where should myself and FES send our invoices for our time spent consulting you on this?

I suspect his rates are a lot more expensive than mine though...

I actually bought a full kilt outfit when I was in Scotland last week.

I went with McGregor and McDuff on Bath Street in Glasgow. I decided that they had the best range of waistcoats/jackets (genuinely different styles) and they also make their own tartan designs - one of which was tasteful enough to be the one which I actually bought.

Slanj (St Vincent Street) are the trendy new kid on the block and their stuff is good although the quality is not quite the same as Mc & McD. Hector Russell is another option (there is one on Buchanan Street) and they should definitely be a price benchmark and may even be the best best for second hand.

Worth knowing also that the venerable and pretentious Geoffrey (Tailor) on Sauchiehall Street has now closed. I presume that the inevitable happened and they simply disappeared up their own bumhole.

Excellent, cheers George. I think I got my original get up from Geoffrey. Although that was apparently because Mum dated one of the family while she was a uni.

George Carlin wrote:I actually bought a full kilt outfit when I was in Scotland last week.

I went with McGregor and McDuff on Bath Street in Glasgow. I decided that they had the best range of waistcoats/jackets (genuinely different styles) and they also make their own tartan designs - one of which was tasteful enough to be the one which I actually bought.

Slanj (St Vincent Street) are the trendy new kid on the block and their stuff is good although the quality is not quite the same as Mc & McD. Hector Russell is another option (there is one on Buchanan Street) and they should definitely be a price benchmark and may even be the best best for second hand.

Worth knowing also that the venerable and pretentious Geoffrey (Tailor) on Sauchiehall Street has now closed. I presume that the inevitable happened and they simply disappeared up their own bumhole.

You came all the way over here and didn't even pop into the New Club so say hello..... 

funnyExiledScot wrote:

George Carlin wrote:I actually bought a full kilt outfit when I was in Scotland last week.

I went with McGregor and McDuff on Bath Street in Glasgow. I decided that they had the best range of waistcoats/jackets (genuinely different styles) and they also make their own tartan designs - one of which was tasteful enough to be the one which I actually bought.

Slanj (St Vincent Street) are the trendy new kid on the block and their stuff is good although the quality is not quite the same as Mc & McD. Hector Russell is another option (there is one on Buchanan Street) and they should definitely be a price benchmark and may even be the best best for second hand.

Worth knowing also that the venerable and pretentious Geoffrey (Tailor) on Sauchiehall Street has now closed. I presume that the inevitable happened and they simply disappeared up their own bumhole.

You came all the way over here and didn't even pop into the New Club so say hello..... 

They said that I wasn't a member, had the wrong kind of Rolex, didn't know which one the shrimp fork was and, in general terms, sported the unmistakable whiff of a Weegie degenerate.

I liked this except from the New Club rules in particular:

No jeans, shell-suits, leggings or trainers are allowed at any time or anything else likely to cause offence to other Members in any of the public rooms.

Sounds like it wouldn't have worked out for Jim or Schiz either.

George Carlin wrote:I liked this except from the New Club rules in particular:

No jeans, shell-suits, leggings or trainers are allowed at any time or anything else likely to cause offence to other Members in any of the public rooms.

Sounds like it wouldn't have worked out for Jim or Schiz either.

Both would fall into the category of "anything else likely to cause offence to other Members".

I do also like the section on becoming a member:

Membership of the Club is open to anyone over the age of 18 who is 'clubbable'; that is they want to meet other like-minded ladies and gentlemen to enjoy their company in convivial surroundings.  To apply to be a Member you must be proposed and seconded by two existing Members whom you know well.  Once you have a proposer and seconder, you can apply by filling in the proposal form, which can be downloaded here.
The second page is for your proposer and seconder to fill in. Once the form is complete, it can be returned by post or email to the Secretary.  The Managers consider all applicants and then, normally, names are placed in the Candidates Book for two months for further sufficient support from other Members.

I take the word "clubbable" to mean that you must have attended one of five acceptable public schools, without requiring a scholarship or bursary.

I just assumed it meant clubbable in the same way that baby seals are to Inuits.

George Carlin wrote:I just assumed it meant clubbable in the same way that baby seals are to Inuits.

No, in that sense I think the New Club sees non-members as "clubbable".

I come and go to these forums a bit but I was just wondering where Scotland were going on the summer tour next year and apparently we are going to Australia and will be an in house competition again like we had in south Africa when the last lions tour was on.

If that's the case who should be invited, I would quite like Georgia and Japan/samoa or Fiji this time.

Also seems like this schedule was made when Robinson still took charge and he opted to not have 3 test series against sanzar nations. Instead opting for sanzar and two tier 2 games. This year we should have had a test in nz but both agreed to opt out.. probably a good choice for us with the world cup draw looming

http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/10/05/25/robinson-welcomes-irb-tours-schedule

poddy89 wrote:I come and go to these forums a bit but I was just wondering where Scotland were going on the summer tour next year and apparently we are going to Australia and will be an in house competition again like we had in south Africa when the last lions tour was on.

If that's the case who should be invited, I would quite like Georgia and Japan/samoa or Fiji this time.

Also seems like this schedule was made when Robinson still took charge and he opted to not have 3 test series against sanzar nations. Instead opting for sanzar and two tier 2 games. This year we should have had a test in nz but both agreed to opt out.. probably a good choice for us with the world cup draw looming

http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/10/05/25/robinson-welcomes-irb-tours-schedule

To be honest I'm generally supportive of us getting as much exposure as possible to the 4-Nations SH teams. We need it to progress as a side, and whilst it's nice to come home from Japan with 100% win record, I can't help but feel that Wales will have taken much more from their 3 Test series against NZ, despite the drubbing in the 3rd Test.

I also don't like the trend of selecting fixtures purely with rankings points and the World Cup draw in mind. It feels to me like the tail wagging the dog. Ducking a game against the mighty All Blacks isn't really what sport is about. We should relish such opportunities.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

poddy89 wrote:I come and go to these forums a bit but I was just wondering where Scotland were going on the summer tour next year and apparently we are going to Australia and will be an in house competition again like we had in south Africa when the last lions tour was on.

If that's the case who should be invited, I would quite like Georgia and Japan/samoa or Fiji this time.

Also seems like this schedule was made when Robinson still took charge and he opted to not have 3 test series against sanzar nations. Instead opting for sanzar and two tier 2 games. This year we should have had a test in nz but both agreed to opt out.. probably a good choice for us with the world cup draw looming

http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/10/05/25/robinson-welcomes-irb-tours-schedule

To be honest I'm generally supportive of us getting as much exposure as possible to the 4-Nations SH teams. We need it to progress as a side, and whilst it's nice to come home from Japan with 100% win record, I can't help but feel that Wales will have taken much more from their 3 Test series against NZ, despite the drubbing in the 3rd Test.

I also don't like the trend of selecting fixtures purely with rankings points and the World Cup draw in mind. It feels to me like the tail wagging the dog. Ducking a game against the mighty All Blacks isn't really what sport is about. We should relish such opportunities.

Given the relative standings of NZ and Scotland the only way a match would change anything would be when Scotland actually win, although you could claim that playing and taking points from a more closely matched team might be a better way of spending the weekend

lostinwales wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

poddy89 wrote:I come and go to these forums a bit but I was just wondering where Scotland were going on the summer tour next year and apparently we are going to Australia and will be an in house competition again like we had in south Africa when the last lions tour was on.

If that's the case who should be invited, I would quite like Georgia and Japan/samoa or Fiji this time.

Also seems like this schedule was made when Robinson still took charge and he opted to not have 3 test series against sanzar nations. Instead opting for sanzar and two tier 2 games. This year we should have had a test in nz but both agreed to opt out.. probably a good choice for us with the world cup draw looming

http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/10/05/25/robinson-welcomes-irb-tours-schedule

To be honest I'm generally supportive of us getting as much exposure as possible to the 4-Nations SH teams. We need it to progress as a side, and whilst it's nice to come home from Japan with 100% win record, I can't help but feel that Wales will have taken much more from their 3 Test series against NZ, despite the drubbing in the 3rd Test.

I also don't like the trend of selecting fixtures purely with rankings points and the World Cup draw in mind. It feels to me like the tail wagging the dog. Ducking a game against the mighty All Blacks isn't really what sport is about. We should relish such opportunities.

Given the relative standings of NZ and Scotland the only way a match would change anything would be when Scotland actually win, although you could claim that playing and taking points from a more closely matched team might be a better way of spending the weekend

Yeah I would agree that its always nice to play against the big teams, same as at any level of the game. I'm on a working holiday in nz and would have loved it if Scotland had came out here, get a good banter out here even without us playing them. I went to the wales game at Eden park and was a great experience.

Hopefully we get a good pre season and six nations because next year we have the summer comp in aus and then play aus and nz at home in the autumn, so have a couple of big games and hopefully lift our game.

That's a good point about the ranking points to be honest. We wouldn't have actually lost anything so would have been good to play in these challenging places.

poddy89 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

poddy89 wrote:I come and go to these forums a bit but I was just wondering where Scotland were going on the summer tour next year and apparently we are going to Australia and will be an in house competition again like we had in south Africa when the last lions tour was on.

If that's the case who should be invited, I would quite like Georgia and Japan/samoa or Fiji this time.

Also seems like this schedule was made when Robinson still took charge and he opted to not have 3 test series against sanzar nations. Instead opting for sanzar and two tier 2 games. This year we should have had a test in nz but both agreed to opt out.. probably a good choice for us with the world cup draw looming

http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/10/05/25/robinson-welcomes-irb-tours-schedule

To be honest I'm generally supportive of us getting as much exposure as possible to the 4-Nations SH teams. We need it to progress as a side, and whilst it's nice to come home from Japan with 100% win record, I can't help but feel that Wales will have taken much more from their 3 Test series against NZ, despite the drubbing in the 3rd Test.

I also don't like the trend of selecting fixtures purely with rankings points and the World Cup draw in mind. It feels to me like the tail wagging the dog. Ducking a game against the mighty All Blacks isn't really what sport is about. We should relish such opportunities.

Given the relative standings of NZ and Scotland the only way a match would change anything would be when Scotland actually win, although you could claim that playing and taking points from a more closely matched team might be a better way of spending the weekend

Yeah I would agree that its always nice to play against the big teams, same as at any level of the game. I'm on a working holiday in nz and would have loved it if Scotland had came out here, get a good banter out here even without us playing them. I went to the wales game at Eden park and was a great experience.

Hopefully we get a good pre season and six nations because next year we have the summer comp in aus and then play aus and nz at home in the autumn, so have a couple of big games and hopefully lift our game.

That's a good point about the ranking points to be honest. We wouldn't have actually lost anything so would have been good to play in these challenging places.

The only thing I'd be wary of - and we've touched on this before in this forum - is that the players would be wrecked after a tour like that, especially after a season with the RWC in the middle of it.

They were in a bad enough state after Japan let alone throwing NZ into the mix.

I think the ideal situation for us would have been a one off full test against Aus, plus 2 games against Japan.

Then the next tour could be NZ, Fiji & Samoa

And so on

But the big nations want the money making 3 test tours against the top NH nations so it is unlikely to happen, especially since Australia learnt to their cost that it is a bad idea to arrange a mid-week test.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think the ideal situation for us would have been a one off full test against Aus, plus 2 games against Japan.

Then the next tour could be NZ, Fiji & Samoa

And so on

But the big nations want the money making 3 test tours against the top NH nations so it is unlikely to happen, especially since Australia learnt to their cost that it is a bad idea to arrange a mid-week test.

Yeah a three test tour should probably only be reserved for the top 6, ie NZ, ENG, SA, AUS, WAL, IRE.

I like when Scotland play one game vs Aus or NZ etc then two teams around their own world ranking. Ideally Scotland should of had one of Wales tests vs NZ and Wales could have played Japan or one of the pacific islands instead of walking into a 3rd and final thumping by NZ.

Not sure if this is really relevant here, but the new Scotland strip this season is now available for pre-order.  Not sure about it.

http://shop.scottishrugby.org/gb/scottish-rugby/pre-order.html

Still not a fan of the tacky Princess Street tat shop tartan but I quite like them!

Certainly not the worst we've had in recent memory.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Still not a fan of the tacky Princess Street tat shop tartan but I quite like them!

Certainly not the worst we've had in recent memory.

I like the tartan, but I'm not sure on the additional tartan pattern on the back as well, it just seems like there is too much going on, plus the white shoulders. It's like they brainstormed things they would like to see on a shirt and just chucked everything together.

That said, as you say certainly not worst

Not so sure about the new home kit. From first look I prefer the one from the world cup and the season just gone. I like the tartan but not sure about the tartan on the back of the kit.

I do like the away kit and goes back to the glory days of the 90s.

I quite like it actually, but then again I'm a man of rather simple tastes.

New away kit is very 2004!

Or even further back to the change kit from the mid 90s when we would win regularly. Might be a bit far back for you though glove

Majestic83 wrote:

Or even further back to the change kit from the mid 90s when we would win regularly. Might be a bit far back for you though glove

For the benefit of some of the more foetal members of these boards, this is the sh!t that we used to put down before professionalism rendered us a bit rubbish:


Note Glasgow's head coach in the build up to this try.

GLove39 wrote:New away kit is very 2004!

Good to see they harked back to or most successful period....

Jaysus - did they have to slap BT Sport on the back? Bit crass:
http://shop.scottishrugby.org/gb/scottish-rugby/pre-order/scotland-rugby-m16-home-authentic-pro-shirt-body-fit-ss-sr.html

George Carlin wrote:Jaysus - did they have to slap BT Sport on the back? Bit crass:
http://shop.scottishrugby.org/gb/scottish-rugby/pre-order/scotland-rugby-m16-home-authentic-pro-shirt-body-fit-ss-sr.html

Not even as good as BT Sport...BT mobile. I didn't even know BT did mobiles.

BT do everything now - they're taking over the world.

And the SRU sold their soul to them for 20 million!

George Carlin wrote:

Majestic83 wrote:

Or even further back to the change kit from the mid 90s when we would win regularly. Might be a bit far back for you though glove

For the benefit of some of the more foetal members of these boards, this is the sh!t that we used to put down before professionalism rendered us a bit rubbish:


Note Glasgow's head coach in the build up to this try.

I love that try. The best Scottish try I can remember, with the Toonie flip against France in second place (funny how Toonie was heavily involved in creating both).

Don't even look at the 7s shirts - presumably designed by (thanks to Richard Curtis) someone with all of the artistic talent of a cluster of colourblind hedgehogs in a bag.

Some the training stuff looks good, though:

Ooh I like that first training top.

My guilty pleasure is buying loads of rugby tops, particularly training tops - I have the entire All Black back catalogue of training tops practically!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ooh I like that first training top.

My guilty pleasure is buying loads of rugby tops, particularly training tops - I have the entire All Black back catalogue of training tops practically!

Well, if it's that or cocaine and hookers...

I think one feature of getting a bit older is that your vices get sadder and sadder. I always thought I would have a nice watch collection and I've realised now that can't afford one. I thought that I would always drink nice red wine but realised that I can't really tell the difference. With two toddlers in the house, I've realised that a minor victory is being able to take a dump on my own without a tiny audience asking me what I'm doing.

George Carlin wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ooh I like that first training top.

My guilty pleasure is buying loads of rugby tops, particularly training tops - I have the entire All Black back catalogue of training tops practically!

Well, if it's that or cocaine and hookers...

I think one feature of getting a bit older is that your vices get sadder and sadder. I always thought I would have a nice watch collection and I've realised now that can't afford one. I thought that I would always drink nice red wine but realised that I can't really tell the difference. With two toddlers in the house, I've realised that a minor victory is being able to take a dump on my own without a tiny audience asking me what I'm doing.

It's funny because it's true.

Just show them exactly what you're doing - I doubt they'll ask again!

funnyExiledScot wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ooh I like that first training top.

My guilty pleasure is buying loads of rugby tops, particularly training tops - I have the entire All Black back catalogue of training tops practically!

Well, if it's that or cocaine and hookers...

I think one feature of getting a bit older is that your vices get sadder and sadder. I always thought I would have a nice watch collection and I've realised now that can't afford one. I thought that I would always drink nice red wine but realised that I can't really tell the difference. With two toddlers in the house, I've realised that a minor victory is being able to take a dump on my own without a tiny audience asking me what I'm doing.

It's funny because it's true.

It gets worse when they get older. You can't take a dump because you can't get in the toilet, and you really don't want to ask what they are doing.

So the Georgia game's being played in sodding Kilmarnock
https://vine.co/v/5W7agenEmB6

North of Scotland ignored yet again

I just don't understand this obsession with Kilmarnock at all. Apart from the hotel that does a nice black pudding, I haven't heard a nice thing said about the place, and I can't think of a single good rugby reason either. Use Pittodrie.