Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XII - Twelve Monkeys

[A Simply Mesmeric Try]

First topic message reminder :

A Brief History of Time-Wasting


https://www.606v2.com/t48240-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread
https://www.606v2.com/t51313-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ii
https://www.606v2.com/t53119-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iii
https://www.606v2.com/t54519-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iv
https://www.606v2.com/t55409-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-v-the-fun-continues
https://www.606v2.com/t56913-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-vi-banter-boogaloo
https://www.606v2.com/t57946-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-vii
https://www.606v2.com/t58659-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-viii
https://www.606v2.com/t59409-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ix
https://www.606v2.com/t60764-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-x-rated
https://www.606v2.com/t61904-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-xi-the-undiscovered-country

Edinburgh

1872 Champions

Edinburgh's Fixtures & Results (click to show):

Glasgow

1872 Runners-up

Glasgow Warrior's Fixtures & Results (click to show):

Ladies and Gents, Girls and Boys, it's season finale!

Guinness PRO12 Play Offs
Fri 20 May 19:45 - Semi Final
Leinster Rugby 30 - 18   Ulster Rugby - RDS Arena 19,100

Sat 21 May 18:30 - Semi Final
Connacht Rugby  16 - 11   Glasgow Warriors - Galway Sportsground 7,800

Sat 28 May 17:30 - Grand Final
Leinster Rugby  10 - 20  Connacht Rugby  - BT Murrayfield - 34,550

Cinderella story or what?! Congrats to the Galway posse who were the form team of the season!

[funnyExiledScot]

So what are we looking at next season for our 1st XV:

1.Dickinson 2.Ford(c) 3.Nel 4.Bresler 5.Gilchrist 6.Manu 7.Hardie 8.Du Preez 9.SH-C 10.Weir 11.Scholes 12.Burleigh 13.Allan 14.Hoyland 15.Kinghorn

That looks about right to me. Forwards look better than the backs - I think we lack a bit of ball carrying firepower in the backline personally, but there's plenty pace and Burleigh and Kinghorn can hopefully help out Weir with the game management.

[RDW]

Pretty much FES, although we'd all rather see McInally over Ford - that won't happen while Solomons is in charge though. Ford is a terrible captain.

That really is an incredibly tough back row unit - Manu played very well against the Blues before inevitably tiring.

I agree though that we need a physical presence - maybe we'll see Rasolea at 13. He's not the biggest but is incredibly physical all the same.

[funnyExiledScot]

It's a real shame that Duncan Taylor won't be coming north of the border - he'd be an ideal foil for Burleigh at 12, and give out backline a bit more presence.

Don't know much about Rasolea, but you don't need to be particularly big to have a physical edge. We just need someone who can truck the ball forwards in the (unlikely....) event that one of our backline moves doesn't run like clockwork.

Sonny Bill Williams would be nice.

[RDW]

I think Manu should be made captain - he does have a SR title to his name after all - and will be available all season.

[funnyExiledScot]

The only doubt over Manu would be his injury record - he's barely played this season. I'd check with the physio team as to the likelihood of these issue re-occuring, otherwise he'll be Gilchrist Mark II (a non-playing captain).

I'd be tempted by naming one of the backs - Phil Burleigh for example - if for no other reason than to try and shift the emphasis of everything we do away from the forwards. At the very least when he screams for the ball at 12 someone may actually pass it to him!

[Hazel Sapling]

Prefer CDP at 6 and Manu at 8. Rasolea is probably a better centre than Allan and would offer something different in that backline.

[RDW]

Manu arrived after spending weeks sitting on the beach celebrating his SR win so was very unfit.  Even still he managed to be a standout player and was a real physical presence.

Unfortunately just as he was getting up to speed with his fitness he was hit by a neck injury (which were epidemic in the squad this season) and it ruled him out for months.

So i'm not sure if a single long term injury can be classed as bad injury record, but you are right in that they need to be confident he'll be physically capable of playing most of the season.

HS - I would prefer them that way round too but Solomons seems to see CDP as an 8 first and foremost. I'd prefer to see him smashing people from 6 and Manu left to do the big carrying.

[funnyExiledScot]

Solomons certainly seems to want Du Preez glued to the 8 jersey. It's for that reason that I think Bradbury missed out on game time to Ritchie, with Bradbury seen more as a ball carrying 8 with Ritchie as a 6.

If we can get Manu and Du Preez playing in tandem with Hardie for an extended run of games, I frankly don't care which way around they play"!

[RDW]

Tovey is staying with Edinburgh!

I'd paste the press release but in the usual Edinburgh shambles it says access denied...

I'm pleased with that signing - we've gone from no 10s to two 10s!

[Hazel Sapling]

Does this mean Kinghorn is seen as a long term 15? Good for Scotland who are short of back 3 players at the moment (need at least another 2 options). Be interesting to see if Bryce becomes the starter as he showed some flashes of being more than a solid club player after getting a healthy bit of playing time this season.

Happy with Tovey as a solid backup who can step in if Weir has a mare or needs a rest (and gets given a week off when his leg breaks from kicking so much). Edinburgh really do have a solid backs division next season and a dominant pack. There is no excuse not to finish in the top 6. Glasgow and Leinster are the only clearly better squads with Ulster (poor pack), Cardiff, Connacht (lost several players) and Scarlets all in that upper mid table zone with them. If AS finishes behind all them and one of Munster/Osprey's, he has to go unless the bubonic plague strikes.

[RDW]

2 year deal

Speaking on the two-year deal Tovey said: “Having the opportunity to come up to Edinburgh and play some rugby was definitely the right move for me and I’m loving it here.

“I couldn’t have asked for anything more from the boys over the last six weeks, it’s great being out on the field with them and I’m enjoying my rugby again.

With a gamut of scores to his name – 32 points in his four matches for the club – Tovey just needs a drop goal to complete his cv: “I’m sure there’ll be some drop goals to come next season!” he adds.

“It was good to score my first Edinburgh try the other week, though, and every point helps.”

Tovey has quickly become a popular figure with the blacknredarmy, taking home the supporters’ player of the match trophy in addition to his Guinness PRO12 man-of-the-match medal on his debut for the capital club.

He said: “I enjoy speaking to supporters after the game, it’s always nice to get involved with them.

“We’re moving ground in January to Myreside, looking at what’s best for the club and for our supporters. Being at a smaller ground will help create a better atmosphere which will be huge for the boys.”

The Welsh age grade and sevens stand-off, who joined from fellow Guinness PRO12 side Newport Gwent Dragons in March, made a man of the match debut for the capital club in the bonus-point win over Zebre at BT Murrayfield in April, kicking three conversions and a penalty.

He followed that up with a conversion and a penalty away to Leinster and, last month, made his debut touchdown – plus the conversion and three penalties – in Cork against Munster.

Head coach Alan Solomons said: "It is terrific news for the club that Jason has committed to us.

“He is a quality flyhalf and an excellent goal kicker, who has added huge value over the past month or so.

“He is also a first class bloke who has fitted in extremely well to the squad.

“I believe he will make a huge contribution next season and look forward to working with him.

[funnyExiledScot]

This is very good news indeed. Tovey has made a strong impression thus far and along with Weir will mean that we have two specialists to cover what is one of the most specialist positions on the field.

I posted the 1st XV for next season above, but the 2nd XV is really taking shape as well:

1.Sutherland 2.McInally 3.Berghan 4.McKenzie 5.B Toolis 6.Ritchie 7.Watson 8.Bradbury 9.Fowles 10.Tovey 11.Helu 12.Rasolea 13.Dean 14.Brown 15.Bryce

[RDW]

That reserve pack would hold their own against most packs in league, making Solomons lack of rotation even more ridiculous.

Depth in the backs too but too but that's mainly because our first choice backline isn't that big a step up from our reserve one!

[Hazel Sapling]

http://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/16/05/16/knee-injury-ends-dunbars-season

No surprise other than no surgery and a bone injury so should heal with no issues. Look forward to having a full season from him next season. Have 2 good combinations of Dunbar/Bennett first choice and Horne/Vernon second choice.

[funnyExiledScot]

That's the hope, that a summer off allows him to hit the ground running next season. Sadly his injury record makes me doubtful.

[EWT Spoons]

Anyone going to the Edinburgh fans consultation tonight?

[Hazel Sapling]

That's the hope, that a summer off allows him to hit the ground running next season. Sadly his injury record makes me doubtful.

It was pretty good the year or two leading into the ACL problem. He certainly is not a McKenzie or a Gilchrist. With Johnson demanding more playing time and Vernon effectively taking over from Bryce's OC duties, if he can play 15-20 club games (Champion's Cup x9, Pro 12 Playoffs x2, Leinster x2, and a few more less important fixtures) with the international season that is enough.

[des]

Anyone going to the Edinburgh fans consultation tonight?

Not tonight. I'm going next Monday though.

My initial questions are

1. Provisions locking up my bike.
2. Improved beer selection
3. Lack of squad rotation leading to late season slump.

I know number 3 has nothing to do with the move but I think everyone should mention it regardless. And number 2. Probably number 1 too.

[funnyExiledScot]

I'd suggest that 2 deserves to be the priority. The rubbish on offer at Murrayfield was a constant bug bear of mine. This is a clean slate, and the chance to bring in some proper stuff!

[RDW]

SUPPORTERS EVENT: Jonny Petrie opens tonight's consultation with a few points regarding the trial move to Myreside, from January 2017 onwards.

Myreside facilities:
We will be developing and supplementing existing stand with covered seating and a terrace, taking the capacity to around 5-6000 seating - an additional 3000 seats on the current stand.

We will be facilitating a supporters marquee with food and drink provisions, and will keep some on-site catering vans - similar to the current set up at BT Murrayfield.

We will also be looking at floodlights and the pitch itself - our ground staff have already started the process of looking at the pitch so that it's in perfect working order for starting to play there from January.

Parking and Travel:
We're working with the school on access to the wider school campus, and other partners in the locality on parking provisions. we're also actively working with the council in terms of transport to and from the venue, and the residential area, ensuring that the local residents still have plenty access.

Season tickets:
We've gone out to our supporters at this stage prior to our STs going on sale, so that we can make you fully aware of our offering.

Reserved season tickets will map directly into the main stand at Myreside.

Roving season tickets will also have suitable seating areas in the extended stands, and we will have a pitch side standing terrace area available so that supporters can still move around the new stadium venue.

In terms of pricing, all of our prices will remain the same, and we will be offering a half season ticket from January onwards for Myreside. Our season tickets will always be the best value for our supporters, and we aim to keep that value across the 1617 season.

Consultation process:
It was always our intention to include our supporters in this decision, and as a priority issue for the club, working with supporters will be key in making this change work for the club.

[RDW]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: Are you considering putting in an artifical pitch at Myreside?

A: In short, yes, for the trial period it will be a grass ptich managed by our ground staff, but we will look at options with the school on developing it for the future.

[RDW]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: Moving mid-way through the season seems to put pressure on the team... is there a specific reason why we are moving half way through?

A: The opportunity rose to partake in a trial period before committing to a full season, so we as a club, and the players, saw it as a great opportunity to move on and change the club for the better going forward, both on and off the field. The players have been consulted extensively and are fully committed to the move.

[RDW]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: Have you thought about the supporters in terms of the financial commitment to watch Edinburgh play at a location that we don't know much about?

A: We're not asking for a long term committment, that's the beauty of the trial period - this is genuinely a consultation with our supporters to see if the proposed venue is right for the club.

[RDW]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: Do you see any games being moved back to BTM if there is the demand?

A: In short, no - we want the best atmosphere we can possibly get at a venue suited to our support, and if the crowds grow significantly, we will look to expand on Myreside in the future - we would love to have a sold out stadium every week. We will however take games such as 1872 back to BT Murrayfield.

[RDW]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: Is there a reason why we have not looked at developing a ground at BT Murayfield?

A: It's been an option that we've looked at, but as a capital investment, logistically and operationally it's not something that we have been entirely comfortable with. To be working with a willing partner with a strong rugby heritage is exciting and will drive Edinburgh Rugby to its root as a club first and foremost.

[RDW]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: Is there scope to create a genuine home for ER and a club identity again?

A: Yes - it's much more effective to create this in a smaller venue and the school are absolutely on board with that - it's our main goal to get Edinburgh back to being a club sport, and it's an atmosphere that we all want for Edinburgh. Myreside will definitely become a home for us.

[RDW]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: How much will the trial cost and who is paying for it? Is there a cost share between us and George Watsons?

A: In the short term, there is no capital investment going into this. In terms of the upgrade of the facilities, that cost will come from Edinburgh Rugby and we are working on a commercial model to facilitate that.

[RDW]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: Will there be a shop provision at Myreside?

A: Yes, we are already in discussion with Macron about this and are looking to create an on-site retail space for our supporters so that they have access to our kit and merchandise on a match night.

[RDW]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: Have you considered putting on shuttle buses from BTM to Myreside?

A: We're working with partners and local facilities close to Myreside for this purpose - we will know more in due course and will let our supporters know when there is a plan in place.

[RDW]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: Will you be looking to secure new sponsors and partners at Myreside, or is this locked in with your current set at BT Murrayfield?

A: We have our own partnerships team here, and have a great deal of Edinburgh Rugby sponsors that are separate from Scottish Rugby, and will look to grow this when we move.

[RDW]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: Will the terracing be improved on at Myreside?

A: Yes, we will be ensuring that all the stands are suitable for our supporters before we move in January.

[RDW]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: Will player recruitment be affected with the move?

A: No, I think the increased atmosphere and club feel that Myreside will provide us will be a huge draw for potential new players. It's the same atmosphere and spirit that's at the core of any team and I do believe that the move and the culture we are growing will also help to grow our recruitment in years to come.

[George Carlin]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: Will Ross Ford ever hook the ball? I mean, even accidentally?

A: No.

[RDW]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: Will there be a first half season ticket?

A: We've spoken about this as a team and it's not something that is in our plans at the moment. We really want our supporters to get on board with the trail and hope that they will commit for the full season both at BT Murrayfield and when we trial the move - we will however offer a half season ticket for Myreside when the trial begins in January.

[RDW]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: Will we be looking at a pre season game at Myreside to test out the venue?

A: We're not set on where we are going to play our pre season fixtures, but if we feel that Myreside would be the right thing to do, we can look at it - however - if that was to happen, it's important to be aware that the enhanced Myreside in January will be very different from the venue at the start of the season.

[RDW]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: Will we take priority over Watsonians' league matches, if there is a clash in fixtures?

A: Part of the commitment around this is that we will play our matches as and when we need to, but as the season lies, there will hopefully be little cross-over between the two. We are in close discussions with the club and the school to work around this in the best way possible.

[RDW]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: Can you tell us how you plan to continue the consultations and what that will look like?

A: We are looking at various options for both supporters and stakeholders. The end goal is to involve our supporters in every aspect of the move and you will be given every opportunity to provide opinions and feedback in whatever form that takes over the next few months. We will always make sure that you are fully informed of the consultation process over the coming period.

[funnyExiledScot]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: Will there be a first half season ticket?

A: We've spoken about this as a team and it's not something that is in our plans at the moment. We really want our supporters to get on board with the trail and hope that they will commit for the full season both at BT Murrayfield and when we trial the move - we will however offer a half season ticket for Myreside when the trial begins in January.

This is daft.

[funnyExiledScot]

SUPPORTERS EVENT:

Q: Will Ross Ford ever hook the ball? I mean, even accidentally?

A: No.

I believe this is still under consultation. They've been discussing it though, and will let us know in due course.

[RDW]

Well I'm a bit more positive about the whole thing, but still not fully convinced.

The main thing was upgrading the facilities and the new capacity. Apparently they are going to add an extra 3000 seats and I have no idea where the hell they're going to put them!

[EWT Spoons]

Seating is going to be at either end of the pitch (behind the posts with the main stand in situ and terracing across from it.

Petrie spoke well and it sounds promising.

[funnyExiledScot]

Well I'm a bit more positive about the whole thing, but still not fully convinced.

The main thing was upgrading the facilities and the new capacity. Apparently they are going to add an extra 3000 seats and I have no idea where the hell they're going to put them!

Temporary seats in the half of the pitch Edinburgh are supposed to be attacking??

[RDW]

Seating is going to be at either end of the pitch (behind the posts  with the main stand in situ and terracing across from it.

Petrie spoke well and it sounds promising.

Knowing Myreside, I just can't picture stands big enough to add 3000 seats at either end of the pitch. If they can then brilliant!

Was there anything else not covered by all the social media updates?

Are they suggesting the school carpark might be used for parking?

[EWT Spoons]

He said there will be circa 4700 covered seats, plus terracing.  The way he described it was there would be temp stands at each end of the pitch.  I'm not sure how they'll do it exactly, but that's the plan.

The social media updates I think cover the main stuff, in terms of parking, he didn't specifically say the school car park, but he said they were in talks with the school about fully utilising the campus.  So I would imagine this would cover the car park.  The challenge is that at the end of the day, it's a school first and foremost, so needs to be able to operate as such.  I believe Watson's kids finish at 3pm on friday, so it would just be after school things that could impact the club using the car park.

Not sure if it was covered in the social media updates, but we are tied into some sponsorship deals.  So unfortunately Tennets, have an umbrella deal with the SRU so Glasgow and Edinburgh are both stuck with them, but Petrie realises tennets is perhaps not everyone's preferred beer so is looking to see what else we can do.

There is still going to be catering facilities for folk to eat before and after, plus the usual assortment of burger vans etc.

Toilets - They are going to be improved, he didn't go into great detail here but one woman was very passionate about them (apparently writes regular letters to the SRU about them...) and he promised they would be fit for purpose and not just a little portaloo type job that you get a festivals and such

Disabled fans - he's invited a lady in a wheelchair (who was concerned about disabled access to terracing etc) to come and check out the stadium prior to the move so she can highlight any issues, so they can rectify them.

They are looking at various parking options and apparently have been talking to every man and his dug about what the options are.  Which he also said is why the story was leaked to the press prior to the club announcing it themselves.  The plan was always to announce it when they did, but they didn't really want the press to come out with it first, but someone talked.

Key success criteria, has not been defined as yet (for either party, club or school) to determine whether the move has been successful, however it's something they are going to create and this will be shared with the fans in due course to help us understand why we either have or have not moved full time.

There is no commitment to Watsons that we will move there full time after the trial period.

Most of the fans who were there are happy enough with the move, or are at least willing to give it a try, with the exception of one.  The one is very vocal on social media (FB in particular) who really does not want to move.

Oh and smokers - he's not considered them, in terms of coming and going for a smoke, but said he would see what they could do.

There was more chat, but I think I am repeating what was covered by social media.  If there is something in particular you're keen to know, let me know and I'll give you his answer if it was asked.

[RDW]

Good summary - thanks

[funnyExiledScot]

Thanks for the summary. I'm certainly willing to head down there a couple of times, but I certainly can't commit to a season ticket until I've figured out how practical it'll be, which is why I think the half season ticket for Murrayfield is a good idea..

[EWT Spoons]

Thanks for the summary. I'm certainly willing to head down there a couple of times, but I certainly can't commit to a season ticket until I've figured out how practical it'll be, which is why I think the half season ticket for Murrayfield is a good idea.
.

i get your point on this one FES, but I understand why the club are not doing them this time round.  They want fans to move to Myerside, given it's potentially going to be our new home, and the season tickets holders are key.  If the club give them an excuse not to try Myerside then chances are a number won't, but if they are committed with having a seat at the game, a higher number will give it a go (I realise you know this already, I'm just repeating it for the sake of it really).

Incidentally there was a decent number of folk there last night and whilst I thought they would be mostly against, it was generally positive.  Plus there was no time limit, so every question was answered.   The only issue is that because the fans have been engaged reasonably early in the process of moving there, some of the questions didn't have a concrete answer, for example parking.  He outlined everything the club are doing to make this as smooth as possible and sorting places to park, but he didn't have a definitive "when we move you will be able to park, here, here and here".  But I guess they are between a rock and a hard place with this one, leave it longer and they'll have fuller or more comprehensive answers, but fans will be annoyed by the lack of interaction or details coming from the club, do it now and some aspects won't be fully established.

Personally I think they did the right thing and some of the issues raised by fans are now being factored into the move.

[EWT Spoons]

Anyone going to the Edinburgh fans consultation tonight?

Not tonight. I'm going next Monday though.

My initial questions are

1. Provisions locking up my bike.
2. Improved beer selection
3. Lack of squad rotation leading to late season slump.

I know number 3 has nothing to do with the move but I think everyone should mention it regardless.  And number 2.  Probably number 1 too.

To answer your points des

1. It's a school - I reckon there will be places to put bikes
2. Nae luck here sadly, tied into a deal with Tennets, but Petrie is going to be having a chat with them (apparently) to see if we can offer alternatives as well. Can't see anything happening there.
3. He didn't mention rotation, but did call out that A) the style of play isn't exactly eye catching (after one punter suggested it was) B) that results on the pitch haven't been good enough. There was no further chat, oh other than we're not finished with signings and there are still one or two to go.

[EWT Spoons]

Oh one other thing I forgot to mention.  He sees the move to Myerside as an ideal way to increase season tickets, or at least more folk buying tickets to the matches early, by basically utilising the first rule of economics: supply and demand.

Basically at the moment, a lot of fans don't bother with season tickets because there is no supply issues.  

On average there are generally at least 60k seats available at MF (in theory).  So some fans don't consider a ticket until the day before or the day of the game and quite often don't get a ticket because they decide against it for whatever reason.  Having a smaller capacity stadium means that supply is lower so rather than having no issues getting tickets it might create one, therefore folk will get in early, or take out season tickets to ensure they can come to the match.

The only issue with that is for at least the trial period we will be stuck Solomons so demand might also still be low due to the chronic rugby on offer, but it makes sense in theory.

[RDW]

I suspect ST and ticket sales will inevitably drop next season, but that will have to be factored into account. Given how little ticket money must contribute to the accounts this probably isn't a huge problem - the main problem will be building the club on a smaller fanbase.  However, if this move pays off then hopefully we'll see the Scotstoun effect and crowds of 5k+ will become the norm.

It will be a bit of a disaster if this fails though - we will have to scuttle back to Murrayfield with our tails between our legs and we'll be back to square one with a massively disenchanted fanbase.

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