Judgement Day

First topic message reminder :

The WRU say 70,000 tickets have been sold... but, as this party run its course.

I ask, as don't recollect anyone discussing here, and I remember last year all too well, where the games started to slow up and the major excitement around where I was in the stadium was who could get their paper plane to fly the furthest...

I guess, the WRU will paint it as a successful event again, and it is in marketing terms as selling 70k tickets is a great achievement, but is it a success in rugby terms..

Thoughts...

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You're saying that a person must have something wrong with them if they can't enjoy that.

No I am not !!!!!

I will ask again, please point out where I have said such a thing. Please, do it.

What I am saying is, it says a lot about them if they can go to a day out and sit there with a face like a slapped @rse and whinge about it all day. FFS, where is the part in that where it says there is something wrong with them. 

Also, for the record, this has now gone from me saying people are wrong, to me saying people have something wrong with them, which is it ? Stop moving the goal posts.

Honestly, what is the point. 

If you do not like JD then do not go. But do not moan to the people on here who enjoy it, and take it for what it is. 

I cannot fathom how people will moan and grizzle about something that they have no intention of supporting.

LordDowlais wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You're saying that a person must have something wrong with them if they can't enjoy that.

No I am not !!!!!

I will ask again, please point out where I have said such a thing. Please, do it.

What I am saying is, it says a lot about them if they can go to a day out and sit there with a face like a slapped @rse and whinge about it all day. FFS, where is the part in that where it says there is something wrong with them.

Okay, to clear it up then, and you've been asked to clarify it already: what does it say about them? Be precise.

LordDowlais wrote:Risca you will not apologise because you are too arrogant to admit you are wrong. Not once did I say people are wrong for how they feel about JD, but if you want to pay £10 and sit there all day moaning about, and moan about it on here it does say more about you than anything.

If you are going, then at least TRY and enjoy it FFS.

Old Andy talking about arrogance is wonderful. So much for I will leave it there blah blah blah.

Listen Andy, technically I haven't paid £10 as it's inclusive in my season ticket. So this is the key point, which unsurprisingly flies straight over your pig head. I am a season ticket holder being asked to alter my usual routine for a game. I am being penalised, when in reality I am the one who should benefit most from this. This does not mean I will have a bad day from the off on Sat and sit there all day moaning, as you stupidly suggest. It does however mean that I will probably not enjoy some things from the day and will discuss it on here Sunday, much like I did last season. Just because the day is cheap or whatever, does not mean people should accept things not being to the standard they expect.

That does not say anything about me (as you suggested), should I come on here on Sunday and list some negatives. It says more about you if anything, that I don't see everything as a good day out when that is not what its purpose is anyway.

Of course everyone, really, understands what Lord is implying.  He gets exacerbated that people who turn up, then moan about the day.  Legitimate opinion.

But...  maybe Lord needs to realise that many fans don't like the idea of the double header but still support their team and want their team to win on the day.  So they turn up because that's the only place their team will be playing....and they want to support them.  
But - they still don't like the idea of two games and/or those games being held away from Home advantage grounds.

It's an easy one really.

But question from me.  I've obviously never been and actually haven't seen one of these days in operation.  But that first game - the fans of the losing side?  What happens?  Do a lot of them just leave?  Do they mope about and show little enthusiasm for the rest of the day.  It would be hard to keep in a good mood and/or watch another game if your side has just been thrashed surely? Wouldn't that eat into any general atmosphere of enthusiasm pretty easily?

LordDowlais wrote:If you do not like JD then do not go. But do not moan to the people on here who enjoy it, and take it for what it is. 

I cannot fathom how people will moan and grizzle about something that they have no intention of supporting.

Point proven again.

A season ticket holder should miss a game off his/her ticket, just to benefit a day tripper like you. Classic.

RiscaGame wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:If you do not like JD then do not go. But do not moan to the people on here who enjoy it, and take it for what it is. 

I cannot fathom how people will moan and grizzle about something that they have no intention of supporting.

Point proven again.

A season ticket holder should miss a game off his/her ticket, just to benefit a day tripper like you. Classic.

No they shouldn't miss it, but if you do not like it then do not go. It's your choice, not mine, not the WRU's, it yours.

SecretFly wrote:Of course everyone, really, understands what Lord is implying.  He gets exacerbated that people who turn up, then moan about the day.  Legitimate opinion.

But...  maybe Lord needs to realise that many fans don't like the idea of the double header but still support their team and want their team to win on the day.  So they turn up because that's the only place their team will be playing....and they want to support them.  
But - they still don't like the idea of two games and/or those games being held away from Home advantage grounds.

It's an easy one really.

But question from me.  I've obviously never been and actually haven't seen one of these days in operation.  But that first game - the fans of the losing side?  What happens?  Do a lot of them just leave?  Do they mope about and show little enthusiasm for the rest of the day.  It would be hard to keep in a good mood and/or watch another game if your side has just been thrashed surely?  Wouldn't that eat into any general atmosphere of enthusiasm pretty easily?

Most Ospreys and Cardiff fans will go after the first game, I think. Cheaper beer prices in a better pub for a start. Me personally, I will stay in a pub as late as possible before my team's game (the second game) and go in around half time of the first game to ensure I have some sort of control of where I can sit.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Okay, to clear it up then, and you've been asked to clarify it already: what does it say about them? Be precise.

Look, I did not want to post expletives because it would give certain people on here ammo to throw around, but if you are going to force my hand, I would say it shows how miserable, arrogant and single minded they are.

LordDowlais wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You're saying that a person must have something wrong with them if they can't enjoy that.

No I am not !!!!!

I will ask again, please point out where I have said such a thing. Please, do it.

What I am saying is, it says a lot about them if they can go to a day out and sit there with a face like a slapped @rse and whinge about it all day. FFS, where is the part in that where it says there is something wrong with them. 

Also, for the record, this has now gone from me saying people are wrong, to me saying people have something wrong with them, which is it ? Stop moving the goal posts.

Honestly, what is the point. 

If you do not like JD then do not go. But do not moan to the people on here who enjoy it, and take it for what it is. 

I cannot fathom how people will moan and grizzle about something that they have no intention of supporting.

If you are a season ticket holder at the Dragons or the Blues, and you have paid to sit in a specific section (say between halfway and 10 yard line) and when Judgement Day happens and you are sit somewhere totally different (say behind the post) then surely you are well in your right to moan about it.

RiscaGame wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Risca you will not apologise because you are too arrogant to admit you are wrong. Not once did I say people are wrong for how they feel about JD, but if you want to pay £10 and sit there all day moaning about, and moan about it on here it does say more about you than anything.

If you are going, then at least TRY and enjoy it FFS.

Old Andy talking about arrogance is wonderful. So much for I will leave it there blah blah blah.

Listen Andy, technically I haven't paid £10 as it's inclusive in my season ticket. So this is the key point, which unsurprisingly flies straight over your pig head. I am a season ticket holder being asked to alter my usual routine for a game. I am being penalised, when in reality I am the one who should benefit most from this. This does not mean I will have a bad day from the off on Sat and sit there all day moaning, as you stupidly suggest. It does however mean that I will probably not enjoy some things from the day and will discuss it on here Sunday, much like I did last season. Just because the day is cheap or whatever, does not mean people should accept things not being to the standard they expect.

That does not say anything about me (as you suggested), should I come on here on Sunday and list some negatives. It says more about you if anything, that I don't see everything as a good day out when that is not what its purpose is anyway.

I am still waiting for you to show me where I said people are wrong.

I fully understand their/your points of view, I just think that if you are going why not try and enjoy yourself. You have already stated why you might not, why don't you turn it around and look at why you might enjoy it ?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:If you are a season ticket holder at the Dragons or the Blues, and you have paid to sit in a specific section (say between halfway and 10 yard line) and when Judgement Day happens and you are sit somewhere totally different (say behind the post) then surely you are well in your right to moan about it.

Yes moan about where you are sitting, I can understand, but to call the whole event rubbish is a bit of an extension.

LordDowlais wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Okay, to clear it up then, and you've been asked to clarify it already: what does it say about them? Be precise.

Look, I did not want to post expletives because it would give certain people on here ammo to throw around, but if you are going to force my hand, I would say it shows how miserable, arrogant and single minded they are.

Okay, and if they go, try to enjoy themselves (I don't believe anyone going will actively try not to enjoy themselves) but still find things they disliked about it, what then? Shouldn't they be allowed to mention it?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Okay, to clear it up then, and you've been asked to clarify it already: what does it say about them? Be precise.

Look, I did not want to post expletives because it would give certain people on here ammo to throw around, but if you are going to force my hand, I would say it shows how miserable, arrogant and single minded they are.

Okay, and if they go, try to enjoy themselves (I don't believe anyone going will actively try not to enjoy themselves) but still find things they disliked about it, what then? Shouldn't they be allowed to mention it?

Clearly not.

But that's the thin LP, people will go and look and try and find something to moan about, instead of thinking you now what apart from this and that, it was a good day.

Also, I am still waiting from you and Risca to show me where I said people are wrong or have something wrong with them, I will keep asking though. 

Oh, and just for you to clarify for me, which is it that I am being accused of ?  People are wrong ? or People have something wrong with them ?

If you cannot find any evidence to the contrary, will I get an apology ?

Lord do you think people are wrong to moan about Judgement day so publically?

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:If you are a season ticket holder at the Dragons or the Blues, and you have paid to sit in a specific section (say between halfway and 10 yard line) and when Judgement Day happens and you are sit somewhere totally different (say behind the post) then surely you are well in your right to moan about it.

Yes moan about where you are sitting, I can understand, but to call the whole event rubbish is a bit of an extension.

That was just for starters. Then there is the price of a burger at home compared to at the Principality Stadium. The cost of transport and parking (if needed) at home compared to the Principality Stadium. Cost of a pint at home compared to the Principality etc. As a season ticket holder the match day experience is not just about rocking up a minute before kick off, watching the match and then going home. It involves a social element that seems to be forgotten about when people talk about judgement day, as all these rituals and routines are lost.

RiscaGame wrote:Clearly not.

Risca, just got there with an open mind, you never know, you might enjoy yourself, your seat might even be a decent one, with a decent view. I have sat at all ends and tiers of the stadium, the only seats I did not 100% think were ok were the one's at the back of the lowest tier where you could not see the ball when kicked into the air. But besides that, there is not really a bad seat there.

You didn't say people were wrong if they didn't enjoy Judgement Day - apologies. But you did imply they were wrong not to enjoy it.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You didn't say people were wrong if they didn't enjoy Judgement Day - apologies.

Thanks for the apology.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:But you did imply they were wrong not to enjoy it.

No I didn't. I said it says a lot about them, which I have explained to you.

Okay then, I'll start again: you didn't say people were wrong if they didn't enjoy Judgement Day, but you did say they were miserable, arrogant and single minded if they didn't enjoy it.

LordDowlais wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:Clearly not.

Risca, just got there with an open mind, you never know, you might enjoy yourself, your seat might even be a decent one, with a decent view. I have sat at all ends and tiers of the stadium, the only seats I did not 100% think were ok were the one's at the back of the lowest tier where you could not see the ball when kicked into the air. But besides that, there is not really a bad seat there.

Look Andy, how do you know I won't enjoy myself? Everybody loves a day out, especially in my case when I get to escape the ball and chain for a day. But people should not be judged by the likes of you if they don't enjoy some aspects of it.

Look at my gripes from last season;

Guest wrote:Train down was a nightmare, expensive beer, Mexican waves, air horns, paper aeroplanes and a pretty rubbish atmosphere compared to what we would've had at Rodney.

Still, as long as we all had a good day out, who cares.

These are legitimate points, but for you I should just lap it up even though I am the season ticket holder for a home team. For your piece of mind, I am trying to make my experience better by doing things like getting a very early train, but it also begs the question as a home supporter why should I have to go to where the game is located some seven hours or so before kick off? I am also pleased that there seems to have been some attempt to keep supporters together this year, but again should us Dragons fans feel like we have to compete to make an atmosphere for our home game?

RiscaGame wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:It sounds like something I would say tbh. Fans were asking for a double header for years, now we have one people seem intent on bitching about it. The problems that ST holders are experiencing might be rectified when the contract is renewed - plus, no Roger Lewis this time around so the union might be more open to discussing the T&Cs.

To be honest, I don't know which fans have been asking for a double header. But if it is as I suspect (i.e. it was probably more Western based supporters), then something should be done to make it a fairer split, whether that be an extra game or whatever. Then you would have no issues with teams losing home games and you could then satisfy Dowlais' view that Judgement Day should be there for a good day out.

If I remember rightly it was fans across the four, rather than just west, though some attitudes probably will have changed once they realised we'd always be losing our home game - I didn't even know about that until after the second JD. I believe the original purpose of JD was to market the regions; I think it's worked to an extent as I know people who don't normally attend live games have gone to this, I imagine that's the case for a number of people. If some of them like what they see it may entice them to attend more live games and that's a good thing.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Okay then, I'll start again: you didn't say people were wrong if they didn't enjoy Judgement Day, but you did say they were miserable, arrogant and single minded if they didn't enjoy it.

Didn't TRY to enjoy it.

I doubt anyone who's going will be actively trying not to enjoy it.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I doubt anyone who's going will be actively trying not to enjoy it.

Well lets not moan about it then.

LordDowlais wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I doubt anyone who's going will be actively trying not to enjoy it.

Well lets not moan about it then.

But that misses the point: there are some things about Judgement Day that, try as they might, some people still don't / won't like. That doesn't make them miserable b*stards, and it doesn't mean those reasons shouldn't be addressed.

Luckless, if it was perfect in every way, then certain people would still find something to moan about.

Lets just shut the forum down then, why discuss anything - its all good, nothing to see, move along

Lets talk about JD. Have any teams been announced yet ?

LordDowlais wrote:Lets talk about JD. Have any teams been announced yet ?

No, not that Im complaining...

munkian wrote:Lets just shut the forum down then, why discuss anything - its all good, nothing to see, move along

This is the thing.

To me (and I know you're not implying this), it seems unless you agree with Howellais, you're negative, wrong or better still belittling him. Then he also subjects everybody to nonsense like this;

LordDowlais wrote:Luckless, if it was perfect in every way, then certain people would still find something to moan about.

Wow.

But anyway, rest assured come Saturday I will go skipping down to the train station, whilst singing that Everything is Awesome song from the Lego movie. I will treasure every minute of the day and even buy myself an air horn and a pack of A4 paper for the paper aeroplane contest. I will fully contribute to the Mexican waves and will sit there all day with a smile on my face, thinking everything is spectacular.

I'm already on a better start anyway, as Cardiff City are away this weekend, so there'll be less people on my choo choo.

See Risca, that's the spirit, I always knew you could do it.

With regards to selection, I would like Angus O'Brien at ten and as the kicker, Dixon and Warren to swap (Dixon start) and as much as I love Crosswell, I think we need a proper second row like Screech in the boiler house. Otherwise, as you were from last week.

They have to start O'Brien.

mikey_dragon wrote:Bedford they've agreed, and signed up for a No. of years. Next time maybe we all sign up the Dragons won't lose a home game?

As for the OP, what exactly do you want from this event? Rather than whine about it get down there and support welsh rugby. If not and you prefer to stay at home on your soap box, try to refrain from whining on here so I don't have to read it.

Well done Dickey, again your comment is nothing less than crud..

Where, in my OP, do I whine about Judgment Day. It is an opening statement for debate, simply posing the question if JD has lost its appeal. There is no whining..

Where, in my OP, do I say I wasn't attending, where does it say I prefer to stay at home..

.. and finally, who gives you the authority to censor what I or anyone else has to say. You don't want to read it, DONT... Simple. Actually, go one step further and do us all a favour and don't post either..

You really are a complete MUPPET!!!

Oh.. and as you enjoyed picking me up on a typo yesterday..

mikey_dragon wrote:Fans were asking for a double header for years, now we have one people seem intent on bitching about it.  

I think it should be one PERSON or SEVERAL people... Let you chose which..

Well, looks like been a lot of debate here, not been able to join in as been up to my eyes with work..

Seems that the concept is still appealing to the majority. I must agree though with the home/away status. I cant see why, it cant be rotated, so that each Region takes turns to "sacrifice" a home fixture. Just common sense surly..

I'm looking forward to the day, again.. done 3 out of 4 so far (including this weekend), missing one only due to a family commitment.

I actually enjoy the day, on a whole, but I do get a little frustrated when those there lose interest and start with the Mexican Wave and paper plane throwing.

I think as Gwyn Jones stated on WOL today, it is up to the regions to provide entertaining rugby that will reduce the likelihood of Mexican waves and paper aeroplane competitions etc.

Reffing will also have a lot to fo with it. If we have two, competitive, flowing games it should be a good spectacle.

Article in Running Rugby says 60K tickets have been sold. Also said that they are hoping to run something similar with the Irish Provinces (2 of Ulster/Munster/Leinster) as there are a lot of Irish in London who would come down for that. Even have a name for it!

Great idea.

Why not Connacht? They're the best side of the four to watch.

GavinDragon wrote:I think as Gwyn Jones stated on WOL today, it is up to the regions to provide entertaining rugby that will reduce the likelihood of Mexican waves and paper aeroplane competitions etc.

Reffing will also have a lot to fo with it. If we have two, competitive, flowing games it should be a good spectacle.

Let's hope the Scarlets concede more than two penalties in the first 70 minutes...

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Why not Connacht? They're the best side of the four to watch.

They wouldn't have as big a UK fanbase as the other 3 I'd imagine. Its the Irish Provincial fans they are looking to cash in on.

Well it makes more sense than the Aviva playing a match (LI v Sar) in the US.. imo..

Sin é wrote:Article in Running Rugby says 60K tickets have been sold. Also said that they are hoping to run something similar with the Irish Provinces  (2 of Ulster/Munster/Leinster) as there are a lot of Irish in London who would come down for that. Even have a name for it!

Great idea.

Where? In London?

Sin é wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Why not Connacht? They're the best side of the four to watch.

They wouldn't have as big a UK fanbase as the other 3 I'd imagine. Its the Irish Provincial fans they are looking to cash in on.

True enough. They play some great rugby though.

GavinDragon wrote:I think as Gwyn Jones stated on WOL today, it is up to the regions to provide entertaining rugby that will reduce the likelihood of Mexican waves and paper aeroplane competitions etc.

Reffing will also have a lot to fo with it. If we have two, competitive, flowing games it should be a good spectacle.

I don't know who to believe when Gwyn says the SH teams attack from everywhere and Lyp said the All Blacks kick more than Dragons.

I don't think our game last season was particularly helped with Clancy in charge. I am a bit worried by Whitehouse reffing, who seems to be trying to be a bit Nigel and get his next quip in. But then, for the day as a whole maybe we should have Nigel and him reffing the two games as a lot of people seem to enjoy the quips.

I love the quips...but go easy on the old man...two games...Welsh teams???? He'll be f**king knackered (oops...I mean exhausted)

PhilBB wrote:

GavinDragon wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

Steffan wrote:
Couldn't you pay for a better seat?

By the time my crap ticket arrived, the better seats had all gone.

Looking after the supporter, WRU style.

Take it up with your region's ticket office.

I have a mid range seated ST, and I am in the middle tier on the try line - not too shabby

I took it up with my club's ticket office. Thanks. I have done the same each year so far with the same answer each time.

Have you tried Dickie Dutch?

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Ah, right, so it is all the WRU's fault ? 

Cheers, I did not know that, I did not realise the actual teams taking part had nothing to do with it. Thanks for pointing it out to me. 

And to think, I did not know the WRU strong armed the teams into doing this.

The WRU control the seating plan meaning that there is insufficient seats for all season ticket holders to be given middle tier seats.

Why can't your brain process that simple piece of information?

Plenty of middle tier seating for Cardiff and Drags ST holders though shewerly? They should have first shout and the Turks/Jacks can fight over the leftovers.

SecretFly wrote:Lord do you think people are wrong to moan about Judgement day so publically?

FYI, Merthyr laid-back country folk love nothing more than a day out on the lash in the big smoke.