Rome Masters 2016

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What a draw!

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/scores/current/rome/416/draws

Good win for Murray. Played well. Whatever the circumstances with Djokovic he kept fully focussed, stuck to his game plan and did exactly what he needed to. After the disappointment of IW and Miami it's good to see the hunger and determination to succeed is obviously still there.

It's simple. Murray now goes into RG believing he can win it. For a player with his flaky mentality (compared to his three rivals of the past 8 years) that's another problem for Novak, who is already aware that both Rafa and Stan could give him a hard time

It's sounds like a really great tournament, but unfortunately I am in between cable TV companies after moving house. Hopefully have something in place by the French Open.

Great to see Murray win such a big clay title, I said a couple of years back winning a clay title should be a goal, Rome is perhaps the biggest 1000 clay of them all (debatable) and great to get a win over Djokovic.

Novak is going to struggle to put together an awesome W/L rate for this season, it doesn't seem like it's going to be one of the great seasons, unless he wins the CYGS or barely loses in the masters from now on.

Really, I think this was a great performance by Murray he served well and was the aggressor for most of the match. Loved how he defended his second serve and also was able to be aggressive on Novak's, to me that is the key to the matchup.

Now that being said, Novak has been ripe all week for a defeat. He was clearly despite all the things he says about RG being just another tournament, he has had his mind on it all this week at Rome. Conditions like the wind and a slippery/muddy court which hampered his movement advantage and earlier ball striking didn't help.

I also think he was rightfully outraged by the official not at some point stopping the match and simply using a delay to get the court into better shape. He looked to slip at times and at times get his foot caught, because of the clay becoming muddy and the slickness of the lines. It is a bit ridiculous to not slow things down considering they are right before a slam. The official is lucky no one injured themselves or there would have been a lot of questions asked.

Haddie-nuff wrote:

temporary21 wrote:If you mean socal we were asked specifically not to stifle debate unless it became aggressive or abusive. He's very passionate but at least debates a point

I don't agree he can be both offensive and rude. He spams every thread with his pro Novak propaganda and in doing so he drives other posters away
Screeds and screeds of it adnausium

Your offensive and rude. No one can say boo regarding Nadal's game without you jumping down their throats. I have been tolerating your nasty mouth for a long time, if anyone should be banned is you. Easily the worst temper on this site, imagine grumpy mama bear claiming I am the one posting propaganda.

socal1976 wrote:Really, I think this was a great performance by Murray he served well and was the aggressor for most of the match. Loved how he defended his second serve and also was able to be aggressive on Novak's, to me that is the key to the matchup.

Now that being said, Novak has been ripe all week for a defeat. He was clearly despite all the things he says about RG being just another tournament, he has had his mind on it all this week at Rome. Conditions like the wind and a slippery/muddy court which hampered his movement advantage and earlier ball striking didn't help.

I also think he was rightfully outraged by the official not at some point stopping the match and simply using a delay to get the court into better shape. He looked to slip at times and at times get his foot caught, because of the clay becoming muddy and the slickness of the lines. It is a bit ridiculous to not slow things down considering they are right before a slam. The official is lucky no one injured themselves or there would have been a lot of questions asked.

As a boxing fan, this sort of attitude toward players always makes me laugh.

They're tough guys, they can take tough conditions.

H-N, socal, that's 15 all. Let's have a rain delay - for a few days!

Seriously, no more, please.

temporary21 wrote:Forget him socal. He doesn't matter. We did lose one of our best posters though... That's bad

I hope abdy can win this. Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons

Temp, I am sorry you had to go through that. I honestly think Jahu doesn't get it, I don't mind the guy disliking Novak. But he has repeatedly made racist comments and racist comments towards me. Being the gentle soul that I am I still hoped he would get his act together. He can do comedy, he just can't make it about certain things like race, gender, and religion. You and I have had issues over moderation as well, but no one should have to put up with that kind of sophomoric nonsense. I have long told this site that what they should do is fire all three of you and appoint me Dictator for Life of the tennis site. It would be wonderful but you would all have to address me as your Excellency.

djlovesyou wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Really, I think this was a great performance by Murray he served well and was the aggressor for most of the match. Loved how he defended his second serve and also was able to be aggressive on Novak's, to me that is the key to the matchup.

Now that being said, Novak has been ripe all week for a defeat. He was clearly despite all the things he says about RG being just another tournament, he has had his mind on it all this week at Rome. Conditions like the wind and a slippery/muddy court which hampered his movement advantage and earlier ball striking didn't help.

I also think he was rightfully outraged by the official not at some point stopping the match and simply using a delay to get the court into better shape. He looked to slip at times and at times get his foot caught, because of the clay becoming muddy and the slickness of the lines. It is a bit ridiculous to not slow things down considering they are right before a slam. The official is lucky no one injured themselves or there would have been a lot of questions asked.

As a boxing fan, this sort of attitude toward players always makes me laugh.

They're tough guys, they can take tough conditions.

The difference being that boxer don't have another fight next week or in two weeks. When clay gets muddy the lines get slicker so when you slide if you catch a line your leg can slip out and then get caught when you hit the dirt. Or you can slip as mud doesn't give you traction to push off. Its bad for both players. And how they are two the favorites for the slam the official should have used a delay here and there and taken care that the courts were in as safe a state as they can be considering. Boxing isn't tennis this analogy doesn't fit.

So who had the best clay court season excluding RG. The three masters:

Rafa W-SF-QF
Murray SF-F-W
Djokovic R32-W-F

It's Andy!

Head to head
Murray-Djokovic 1-1
Murray-Nadal 1-1
Djokovic 1-0 Nadal

Federer, Stan just not in the picture here. I'd guess Nishikori was the 4th best.

djlovesyou wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Really, I think this was a great performance by Murray he served well and was the aggressor for most of the match. Loved how he defended his second serve and also was able to be aggressive on Novak's, to me that is the key to the matchup.

Now that being said, Novak has been ripe all week for a defeat. He was clearly despite all the things he says about RG being just another tournament, he has had his mind on it all this week at Rome. Conditions like the wind and a slippery/muddy court which hampered his movement advantage and earlier ball striking didn't help.

I also think he was rightfully outraged by the official not at some point stopping the match and simply using a delay to get the court into better shape. He looked to slip at times and at times get his foot caught, because of the clay becoming muddy and the slickness of the lines. It is a bit ridiculous to not slow things down considering they are right before a slam. The official is lucky no one injured themselves or there would have been a lot of questions asked.

As a boxing fan, this sort of attitude toward players always makes me laugh.

They're tough guys, they can take tough conditions.

I agree though I suppose your viewpoint is somewhat different when your preferred player loses

We've seen times when Andy's mind has been elsewhere V Novak (FeatherGate and Novak's 'injury') at the Australian Open and he ended up losing. Today the roles were reversed. Even before the rain came Novak was unhappy about things and even got lucky in throwing down his racket and it bounced up into the crowd. The court conditions were next to meet his chagrain as his mind continued to wander hence he lost. Murray stayed focussed and gort the job done but on other occasions it has been different. C'est la vie as they will be saying in Roland Garros.

It rains on both.sides of the net CC.

Some people say Novak is arrogant but I'm afraid I don't agree.
His comments after his defeat today:-

"Djokovic: "I had a long couple of weeks, especially the last couple of days. I knew it's going to be very hard for me, an uphill ride against Andy today, who was playing throughout the week at a very high level. To compete with him in long exchanges and rallies that we do have in our encounters, they require a lot more energy and better performance from my side which didn't happen.

"Not taking anything away from Andy's win. On the contrary, I think he deserved to win and deserved to win the entire tournament, because he was the best player. He was the player that played in the best form throughout the entire tournament."

Complimentary to say the least!

As for RG I would still make Rafa & Novak joint favourites with Andy having an outside chance - but hey let the best man win.

General comment. I think it is unwise to be making public allegations (such as racism) against people unable to defend themselves against that allegation.

Which is irrelevant. The official increased the chances for both guys to get injured right before a slam. Maybe tarping, cleaning the lines, and waiting for the next break in the rain might have improved the play level and lowered risk. Nothing happened thankfully. But if either player hurt themselves after numerous protests, right before a slam you can bet your bottom dollar the next match that guy would be officiating would be a challenger event in Siberia somewhere. Wet conditions increase risk, period, now because you have some bee in your bonnet over me and my posts Haddie you can argue whatever you like, I rarely agree with you anyway. But the objective facts are that Novak was right and it is always better to be on the safe side considering the timing of this event. Fortunately, no one got hurt, but there would have been crap storm if one or other did after numerous protests. I am happy it didn't happen although, I did see both guys slipping and sliding at odd times.

sportslover wrote:Some people say Novak is arrogant but I'm afraid I don't agree.
His comments after his defeat today:-

"Djokovic: "I had a long couple of weeks, especially the last couple of days. I knew it's going to be very hard for me, an uphill ride against Andy today, who was playing throughout the week at a very high level. To compete with him in long exchanges and rallies that we do have in our encounters, they require a lot more energy and better performance from my side which didn't happen.

"Not taking anything away from Andy's win. On the contrary, I think he deserved to win and deserved to win the entire tournament, because he was the best player. He was the player that played in the best form throughout the entire tournament."

Complimentary to say the least!

As for RG I would still make Rafa & Novak joint favourites with Andy having an outside chance - but hey let the best man win.

SL, you can bet your bottom dollar that if Novak keeps pushing an threatening the records of Nadal and Federer that magically he will become the Jafar of the ATP sans the evil talking parrot. As Novak wins more and more he will become even more boring, robotic, grinding, doped up, arrogant, bad for the game, etc. We saw the same pattern with Nadal. If you win enough to possibly threaten being considered in the same sentence as Federer than all of sudden you are cheating, doping, boring, and the death of tennis. Novak won Madrid last week and all of sudden he got more arrogant, and magically when he was the same guy losing to Fed and Nadal he wasn't quite as arrogant.

Nore Staat wrote:General comment.  I think it is unwise to be making public allegations (such as racism) against people unable to defend themselves against that allegation.

Except that he was twice banned for racially abusing me on this very website. Am I not allowed to say water is wet because it makes you feel uncomfortable. One of his favorite jokes about Djokovic was (paraphrase) "when a gypsy gets rich he tries to kill his father". Not to mention his comments that he specifically made regarding me and my background. Ask Julius, Temp, and Laverfan about Jahu's alleged racist comments.

Nore Staat wrote:General comment.  I think it is unwise to be making public allegations (such as racism) against people unable to defend themselves against that allegation.

In general, I'd agree, but the evidence is in the Archive section that Admins/Mods have.

Probably best to draw a line under it and move on.

Well seeing as you appear to know so much more than me Socal, as you are always ready to point out,  am I wrong in saying that some years back Rafa and Novak played in the rain at RG, for some time before they stopped the match. Matches are often played in the rain on clay unless it gets too bad I was not aware that today was much different to others Ive seen.It troubled Nole more than Andy but that's life.

I don't so much have a bee in my bonnet about the content of your posts as I do the tone Socal you can be aggressive to the point of being rude and you then have the audacity to object to the reaction you get. I don't like being bullied socal and I wont be intimidated. I will voice my opinion like it or not and no I don't often agree with you either but that's what this forum is all about. sobeit

socal1976 wrote:

sportslover wrote:Some people say Novak is arrogant but I'm afraid I don't agree.
His comments after his defeat today:-

"Djokovic: "I had a long couple of weeks, especially the last couple of days. I knew it's going to be very hard for me, an uphill ride against Andy today, who was playing throughout the week at a very high level. To compete with him in long exchanges and rallies that we do have in our encounters, they require a lot more energy and better performance from my side which didn't happen.

"Not taking anything away from Andy's win. On the contrary, I think he deserved to win and deserved to win the entire tournament, because he was the best player. He was the player that played in the best form throughout the entire tournament."

Complimentary to say the least!

As for RG I would still make Rafa & Novak joint favourites with Andy having an outside chance - but hey let the best man win.

SL, you can bet your bottom dollar that if Novak keeps pushing an threatening the records of Nadal and Federer that magically he will become the Jafar of the ATP sans the evil talking parrot. As Novak wins more and more he will become even more boring, robotic, grinding, doped up, arrogant, bad for the game, etc. We saw the same pattern with Nadal. If you win enough to possibly threaten being considered in the same sentence as Federer than all of sudden you are cheating, doping, boring, and the death of tennis. Novak won Madrid last week and all of sudden he got more arrogant, and magically when he was the same guy losing to Fed and Nadal he wasn't quite as arrogant.

socal - As an Andy fan with Novak being my second choice I will not be one of those that say he is boring,robotic,grinding ,doped up etc. etc.,lets leave those comments for the "real losers"

Tennis is going through a period similar to Michael Schumacher winning in F1 and Tiger in Golf, Novak is on that list and eventually it will come to end as it did with the other two, but lets enjoy it will it lasts!

socal1976 wrote:

djlovesyou wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Really, I think this was a great performance by Murray he served well and was the aggressor for most of the match. Loved how he defended his second serve and also was able to be aggressive on Novak's, to me that is the key to the matchup.

Now that being said, Novak has been ripe all week for a defeat. He was clearly despite all the things he says about RG being just another tournament, he has had his mind on it all this week at Rome. Conditions like the wind and a slippery/muddy court which hampered his movement advantage and earlier ball striking didn't help.

I also think he was rightfully outraged by the official not at some point stopping the match and simply using a delay to get the court into better shape. He looked to slip at times and at times get his foot caught, because of the clay becoming muddy and the slickness of the lines. It is a bit ridiculous to not slow things down considering they are right before a slam. The official is lucky no one injured themselves or there would have been a lot of questions asked.

As a boxing fan, this sort of attitude toward players always makes me laugh.

They're tough guys, they can take tough conditions.

The difference being that boxer don't have another fight next week or in two weeks. When clay gets muddy the lines get slicker so when you slide if you catch a line your leg can slip out and then get caught when you hit the dirt. Or you can slip as mud doesn't give you traction to push off. Its bad for both players. And how they are two the favorites for the slam the official should have used a delay here and there and taken care that the courts were in as safe a state as they can be considering. Boxing isn't tennis this analogy doesn't fit.

It's always a prima donna excuse. How often to tennis players actually get injured on court, even when the conditions are bad? Not very often. Tennis injuries are nearly always repetitive strain.

Boxers might suffer a serious injury, cyclists need rules against conditions because it's dangerous too. Tennis is never dangerous.

As I see it one of Novak's greatest strengths is his mental toughness - well today it went walkabouts. Sure conditions were tricky but instead of knuckling down and getting on with it he let it play on his mind and lets remember his mind was on walkabout prior to any sight of rain chucking his racket into the crowd, swishing the court surface with it after misses etc etc. His mental toughness went AWOL and would more say that was the reason for his loss rather than court conditions. The fact nobody was injured out there backs up the umpire - perhaps Novak was stressing more about it purely as he had an ankle problem but that isn't the umpire's outlook is it?

WTF, there's parts of this page read like a fangirl convention.

sportslover wrote:

socal1976 wrote:

sportslover wrote:Some people say Novak is arrogant but I'm afraid I don't agree.
His comments after his defeat today:-

"Djokovic: "I had a long couple of weeks, especially the last couple of days. I knew it's going to be very hard for me, an uphill ride against Andy today, who was playing throughout the week at a very high level. To compete with him in long exchanges and rallies that we do have in our encounters, they require a lot more energy and better performance from my side which didn't happen.

"Not taking anything away from Andy's win. On the contrary, I think he deserved to win and deserved to win the entire tournament, because he was the best player. He was the player that played in the best form throughout the entire tournament."

Complimentary to say the least!

As for RG I would still make Rafa & Novak joint favourites with Andy having an outside chance - but hey let the best man win.

SL, you can bet your bottom dollar that if Novak keeps pushing an threatening the records of Nadal and Federer that magically he will become the Jafar of the ATP sans the evil talking parrot. As Novak wins more and more he will become even more boring, robotic, grinding, doped up, arrogant, bad for the game, etc. We saw the same pattern with Nadal. If you win enough to possibly threaten being considered in the same sentence as Federer than all of sudden you are cheating, doping, boring, and the death of tennis. Novak won Madrid last week and all of sudden he got more arrogant, and magically when he was the same guy losing to Fed and Nadal he wasn't quite as arrogant.

socal - As an Andy fan with Novak being my second choice I will not be one of those that say he is boring,robotic,grinding ,doped up etc. etc.,lets leave those comments for the "real losers"

Tennis is going through a period similar to Michael Schumacher winning in F1 and Tiger in Golf, Novak is on that list and eventually it will come to end as it did with the other two, but lets enjoy it will it lasts!

That's right SL, credit to Andy he fully deserved his victory and played exceptionally well. I think he is just a much better player on clay now than he has ever been and who knows he has to be one of the handful of top favorites for what should be a wide open RG. It is sad that some can't enjoy the tour today but some of us are loving it. The draw opened up for Andy and Novak was a little off form this week, but hey that is what happens at the highest levels. Its good to know that Murray is still in their to push and challenge him.

It is really bizarre as this mental walkabout has been present throughout the tournament as he dropped sets against players he'd normally marmalize (one of those he was bagelled in). Then he hit a ball towards the ball boy in another match and could have been defaulted and then he whacks his ankle with his racket injuring himself. And how could we forget when he broke strings on his racket and he didn't realize it until the umpire had to tell him. A series of mental blanks. A blip you'd think but I thought the same when he lost early doors V Vesely at Monte Carlo.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Nore Staat wrote:General comment.  I think it is unwise to be making public allegations (such as racism) against people unable to defend themselves against that allegation.

In general, I'd agree, but the evidence is in the Archive section that Admins/Mods have.

Probably best to draw a line under it and move on.

JHM & Socal: I was unaware of the background but this is not a court of law. I Agree it is best to draw a line under it.

I said it at the time Vesely opened the door.. he found the guts to play his own game and not Novaks... exactly what Andy did today. The chinks are appearing in the armour it had to happen eventually.

djlovesyou wrote:

socal1976 wrote:

djlovesyou wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Really, I think this was a great performance by Murray he served well and was the aggressor for most of the match. Loved how he defended his second serve and also was able to be aggressive on Novak's, to me that is the key to the matchup.

Now that being said, Novak has been ripe all week for a defeat. He was clearly despite all the things he says about RG being just another tournament, he has had his mind on it all this week at Rome. Conditions like the wind and a slippery/muddy court which hampered his movement advantage and earlier ball striking didn't help.

I also think he was rightfully outraged by the official not at some point stopping the match and simply using a delay to get the court into better shape. He looked to slip at times and at times get his foot caught, because of the clay becoming muddy and the slickness of the lines. It is a bit ridiculous to not slow things down considering they are right before a slam. The official is lucky no one injured themselves or there would have been a lot of questions asked.

As a boxing fan, this sort of attitude toward players always makes me laugh.

They're tough guys, they can take tough conditions.

The difference being that boxer don't have another fight next week or in two weeks. When clay gets muddy the lines get slicker so when you slide if you catch a line your leg can slip out and then get caught when you hit the dirt. Or you can slip as mud doesn't give you traction to push off. Its bad for both players. And how they are two the favorites for the slam the official should have used a delay here and there and taken care that the courts were in as safe a state as they can be considering. Boxing isn't tennis this analogy doesn't fit.

It's always a prima donna excuse. How often to tennis players actually get injured on court, even when the conditions are bad? Not very often. Tennis injuries are nearly always repetitive strain.

Boxers might suffer a serious injury, cyclists need rules against conditions because it's dangerous too. Tennis is never dangerous.

Ok, you just don't seem to like to register facts and arguments that go against already held preconceived notions. Have you ever played on a slick clay court to deem that tennis is "never" dangerous. And your arguments that tennis injuries are repetitive mainly in nature due to fatigue is pretty stupid. I just tore my calf in the first set of the last match I played three weeks ago. The last injury I had before that was a torn hamstring particularly because on a stretched BH pass my foot slipped out and I poped my hammy. I mean just making up stuff as you go along will convince some people but it won't work on me. Players injure themselves quite often as result of hyperextension or tearing or traumatic type of injuries. Usually do to guess what, loss of balance and footing.

Haddie-nuff wrote:I said it at the time Vesely opened the door.. he found the guts to play his own game and not Novaks... exactly what Andy did today. The chinks are appearing in the armour it had to happen eventually.

Yeah, the chinks are so apparent that is why he has double the points of the next guy. I wonder why Rafa can't find those chinks in oh the last 7 or so matches?

Just wait and see eh

CaledonianCraig wrote:It is really bizarre as this mental walkabout has been present throughout the tournament as he dropped sets against players he'd normally marmalize (one of those he was bagelled in). Then he hit a ball towards the ball boy in another match and could have been defaulted and then he whacks his ankle with his racket injuring himself. And how could we forget when he broke strings on his racket and he didn't realize it until the umpire had to tell him. A series of mental blanks. A blip you'd think but I thought the same when he lost early doors V Vesely at Monte Carlo.

It has to be the tension inherent in RG being around the corner. Subconsciously, he has to be edgy despite the claims that Rg is another tournament. I really think he should just treat it as another tournament and he is trying, but I think the last few weeks he hasn't be doing a good job of keeping himself focused on the task at hand.

socal1976 wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:I said it at the time Vesely opened the door.. he found the guts to play his own game and not Novaks... exactly what Andy did today. The chinks are appearing in the armour it had to happen eventually.

Yeah, the chinks are so apparent that is why he has double the points of the next guy. I wonder why Rafa can't find those chinks in oh the last 7 or so matches?

Well losing against Vesely has to be seen as a very surprising loss, the sets he dropped V Robert and bagelled by Bellucci and then loss against Murray all begin to add up so they could be seen as chinks certainly. Prior to the clay court season Novak was a pristine Sherman tank who looked impregnable - now that can't be said. Rafa has got closer to beating him staying far more competitive in matches so he'll feel better, Kei Nishikori will feel less inhibited as he came within a couple or three points of beating Novak, Andy will have gained belief from this win today and lesser players may feel less intimidated now since they saw that Vesely, then Robert and Bellucci caused Novak problems so why not them? That all equates to chinks.

socal1976 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:It is really bizarre as this mental walkabout has been present throughout the tournament as he dropped sets against players he'd normally marmalize (one of those he was bagelled in). Then he hit a ball towards the ball boy in another match and could have been defaulted and then he whacks his ankle with his racket injuring himself. And how could we forget when he broke strings on his racket and he didn't realize it until the umpire had to tell him. A series of mental blanks. A blip you'd think but I thought the same when he lost early doors V Vesely at Monte Carlo.

It has to be the tension inherent in RG being around the corner. Subconsciously, he has to be edgy despite the claims that Rg is another tournament. I really think he should just treat it as another tournament and he is trying, but I think the last few weeks he hasn't be doing a good job of keeping himself focused on the task at hand.

Perhaps but something about that theory doesn't add up. In previous clay court seasons he hasn't looked so nervy/rattled/agitated and he still was striving for French Open wins so why should it be any different this year?

Absolutely CC you cannot see it as anything else. But it should be expected unless you want Novak to be called robotic.. he is human and it is inevitable that he cannot withstand this pressure match after match both physically and mentally. It is a wake up call if nothing else.

Djokovic to go winless the rest of the year.

Oh Novak is not unbeatable CC, I don't think I have ever made the suggestion. I think he is the favorite for RG but there are number of players that can beat him on their day, I don't think I ever said anything differently. But what are those chinks? And how come they still see him getting to the finals and winning most the tournaments he enters in and enjoying a historic points gap? I mean if Novak has chinks than everyone else on tour has gashes in their armor as far as he is concerned. The fact is he had the toughest draw and Murray the easiest. Also a slippery surface will negate his better change of direction and movement.

Either way Murray played better this week and deserved it, but it is a dangerous business over extrapolating one final result, right before RG on a cold and rainy day. I mean Novak almost lost to Bellucci, is that because Bellucci was exposing newly discovered chinks or that Novak probably just isn't as focused on this tournament because he is already thinking of RG.

What are you expecting from him Socal? it is unrealistic to believe he has no failings. No man unless he I superhuman can continue the way he has been, the pressure is enormous, match after match he has to play perfect tennis. As every tournament ends, he has to focus on the next, not even daring to believe he can do anything other than win. RG is his biggest hurdle, and like it or not, he wants it. but he has seen during this tournament and the last that there are many pitfalls out there between him and the trophy. Don't be too eager to discount Rafa, I only live in hopes, not expectations.
But hopes I have and after today so does CC. Mentally Novak is not in a good place at the moment

I'd readily accept this tournament was a little hiccup but losing early doors to Vesely as well recently says this is more than a hiccup. Chinks come mentally as well and his loss V Vesely was something like his earliest exit for years and first loss against a player ranked so low for some time. And that is before we even get to the long line of weird mental frailties in Rome culminating in his first loss against Murray for some time. You cannot tell me that at this moment in time Novak feels better mentally than he did before the start of the clay court season so that must be a chink surely.

I don't think anyone would begrudge Djokovic a French Open title following Nadal's evident fall off in performance level in the latter stages of a gruelling and lengthy career.

The big surprise last year was Wawrinka.  But there is no evidence to suggest Wawrinka can recapture the form that won him two slams, given his age and current performance levels.  As long as Djokovic is fit he should beat most people over best of five sets.  In fact he should beat the whole field in best of five if he is fit.  But there are a few challengers to him that seem capable or potentially capable of raising their level and making it last over a five set period.  As Federer has said in the past when talking of Murray's chances against him: five set tennis is a "different sport" to three set tennis.

A seven stage best of five set tournament over two weeks is different to a five stage (for seeded players) best of three set tournament over one week.

CaledonianCraig wrote:I'd readily accept this tournament was a little hiccup but losing early doors to Vesely as well recently says this is more than a hiccup. Chinks come mentally as well and his loss V Vesely was something like his earliest exit for years and first loss against a player ranked so low for some time. And that is before we even get to the long line of weird mental frailties in Rome culminating in his first loss against Murray for some time. You cannot tell me that at this moment in time Novak feels better mentally than he did before the start of the clay court season so that must be a chink surely.

Fair enough, I just don't think it matters or makes much of difference to be honest. He did what he wanted to do with Madrid and Rome and made sure he kept Nadal from getting too high before RG and he got his matches in. I think he will be more focused come RG on the points at hand, but I agree in one respect that he is showing too much tension over this RG quest. That probably is a chink. But as I said no one ever argued he was superhuman or unbeatable anyway, and this match or this tournament in general he was just ripe for a loss. It showed from his first match through he didn't play a single decent match really, and still got to the finals. So as far as chinks go, everyone has them, Novak fewer than anyone else. Nobody thought he was unbeatable before this match or this clay court season anyway.

I appreciate your concern socal. Im just glad that I dont have to take that kind of stuff again.
However given its now finished, its best we close the book on this, rather than comment on anyone after its been handled.

Id say wait until RG 4th round, youll probably be able to tell how much of a chunk, if any, Novak is feeling

I think it's difficult when people actually feel a sense of grief when the player they support (love?) gets defeated.

This is when the forums go a bit 'crazy'.

djlovesyou wrote:I think it's difficult when people actually feel a sense of grief when the player they support (love?) gets defeated.

This is when the forums go a bit 'crazy'.

I can actually agree with that good post DJ. We have to be able to criticize these guys despite knowing they are obviously world class players, some people seem to internalize way too much when one of their players gets knocked for a particular weakness or frailty.

Hopefully after the emotion died down Djokovic apologised to the Umpire. I'm sure he probably did.

It's called emotional investment: time spent following and studying a player or a team. There are what are known as opportunity costs: that time could have been spent doing something more productive, like working overtime, writing a book, or learning how to skip to the light fandango for pulling members of the opposite sex and generally gaining kudos points from your competitors. All these things need to be taken into account in the calculus of the emotional grief and the gnashing of teeth.

Of course on the plus side of the ledger is the opportunity to hone one's commentating and debating skills plus the benefits of developing social skills and social networks in engaging with people with a shared interest but different backgrounds, experiences and talents.

I think Djokovic was fed some gluten free Tottenham Hotspur Lasagna, I think that explains the recent chinks in his armor.

Djokovic will be fine, he'll win the French comfortably imo.