Aviva Play Off 1: Saracens v Leicester Tigers, 21 May

First topic message reminder :

    
Saracens v Leicester Tigers
21 May 2016
KO: 12:30
Allianz Park

Live on BT Sport

Referee: JP Doyle (115th Premiership game).
Assistant Referees: Craig Maxwell-Keys & Paul Dix.
TMO: Graham Hughes.

A. Head to Head

52 Played 52
19 Wins 28
28 Losses 19
4 Draws 4
1044 Points 1269

B. Form

Sun 20 March 2016
Leicester Tigers 21 - 13 Saracens

Sat 2 January 2016
Saracens 26 - 6 Leicester Tigers

Sat 11 April 2015
Saracens 22 - 6 Leicester Tigers

Sun 16 November 2014
Leicester Tigers 21 - 21 Saracens

C. Teams

Saracens 

Goode; Ashton, Taylor, Barritt (capt), Wyles; Farrell, Wigglesworth; M. Vunipola, Brits, Du Plessis, Itoje, Kruis, Rhodes, Fraser, B. Vunipola.

Replacements: George, Barrington, Figallo, Hamilton, Wray, De Kock, Hodgson, Bosch.

Leicester Tigers

Tait (capt); Veainu, Betham, Tuilagi, Goneva; Williams, B. Youngs; Ayerza, Thacker, Cole, Barrow, Kitchener, Fitzgerald, O'Connor, McCaffrey.

Replacements: Ghiraldini, Genge, Mulipola, Slater, Evans, Kitto, Bell, Thompstone.

Tigers need to score while Sarries are relatively loose. They'll surely look to lock down once they've been spoken to at half time.

Moronic kick choice inside your own half. We'd got up the pitch and the option then was to aim for the corner.

Leicester are shooting themselves in the foot. Playing from too deep and Williams' close-kicking game is getting them into all sorts of trouble.

Pathetic...

We lose so much composer with Williams at 10

Oh Frak, Manu off now

Wonder whether that injury will keep Tuilagi out of the tour. It could be a precautionary move.

Told you his knee was done. Cockers is an arse

Prob game over now

kingelderfield wrote:Told you his knee was done. Cockers is an arse

Its his other knee you donkey

nathan wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:Told you his knee was done. Cockers is an arse

Its his other knee you donkey

Was thinking that

kingelderfield wrote:Told you his knee was done. Cockers is an arse

I do find it amusing when fans not only feel they have a better understanding of a players fitness than a clubs medical staff but they also fail to understand that decisions about such issues are made by doctors and physios not coaches.

SirBurger wrote:Leicester are shooting themselves in the foot. Playing from too deep and Williams' close-kicking game is getting them into all sorts of trouble.

We're finding space doing that though. There is a definite time to use the grubbers against that rush defence but you need to be further up the field.

Manu is a huge loss and Williams still looks short of form.

king_carlos wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:Told you his knee was done. Cockers is an arse

I do find it amusing when fans not only feel they have a better understanding of a players fitness than a clubs medical staff but they also fail to understand that decisions about such issues are made by doctors and physios not coaches.

Unfortunately Tigers have a fair few fans who know better

Some ref bashing going on today

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Some ref bashing going on today

lol, you would be doing the same if Newcastle were playing

TBF I was never expecting 2 semi finals this season.

Shame but we just aren't ready.

nathan wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Some ref bashing going on today

lol, you would be doing the same if Newcastle were playing

In a AP semi? Why would we be there?

We're too busy bashing the team to notice the ref

nathan wrote:surely a forward pass in the run up to that?

This game reminds of the 2010 final

Yep officials seem a bit lax today - took a replay to see clear handling on the ground to disallow the Tigers try and missed the forward pass in the Sarries try ... unlucky for Tigers they only disallowed one when both should have been.

Welly wrote:TBF I was never expecting 2 semi finals this season.

Shame but we just aren't ready.

we are still very hot or cold, not enough composure.

Now we are behind, we'll start to force it and make 1000's of errors

nathan wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:Told you his knee was done. Cockers is an arse

I do find it amusing when fans not only feel they have a better understanding of a players fitness than a clubs medical staff but they also fail to understand that decisions about such issues are made by doctors and physios not coaches.

Unfortunately Tigers have a fair few fans who know better

Very true sadly.

Dunno Sgt there isn't that much.

Agreed Welly, we're not there as a team yet. If TV had taken his three knock ons then we'd have 21 points as well. Despite what the half wit Monye is saying we're creating plenty but the execution is just woeful.

Is Thacker coming back on?

nathan wrote:Is Thacker coming back on?

Good.

Five stitches isn't quick to put in. Leo helped the scrum but was cack with his darts.

Looks like it was Manu's hamstring

king_carlos wrote:

nathan wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:Told you his knee was done. Cockers is an arse

I do find it amusing when fans not only feel they have a better understanding of a players fitness than a clubs medical staff but they also fail to understand that decisions about such issues are made by doctors and physios not coaches.

Unfortunately Tigers have a fair few fans who know better

Very true sadly.

Yer hands up, I got that one wrong. Can I have my bullets back please?

kingelderfield wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

nathan wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:Told you his knee was done. Cockers is an arse

I do find it amusing when fans not only feel they have a better understanding of a players fitness than a clubs medical staff but they also fail to understand that decisions about such issues are made by doctors and physios not coaches.

Unfortunately Tigers have a fair few fans who know better

Very true sadly.

Yer hands up, I got that one wrong. Can I have my bullets back please?

lol, nope

kingelderfield wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

nathan wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:Told you his knee was done. Cockers is an arse

I do find it amusing when fans not only feel they have a better understanding of a players fitness than a clubs medical staff but they also fail to understand that decisions about such issues are made by doctors and physios not coaches.

Unfortunately Tigers have a fair few fans who know better

Very true sadly.

Yer hands up, I got that one wrong. Can I have my bullets back please?

No worries, of course. Given how often I complain about players looking knackered and burnt out I'm liable for the exact same complaints pretty often.

It's always going to be a more tetchy subject with someone like Manu who everyone wants back on the field with England as well.

well thats it then, over for another year

Ah FFS. Just stupidity. Error count is massive and Sarries are accepting the gifts.

annoying that JP continually shouts for Sarries players to release yet they still hold on for a few more seconds. He hasn't given one penalty for it.

Saying that though, we've been woeful. Keep trying to force it which leads to errors

With this absurd deficit to chase I'd almost be tempted to get Will Evans on at half time to target the break down even more with 3 opensides. Clutching at straws I know but Tigers need to change something to at least get something on the scoreboard for respect at the moment.

king_carlos wrote:With this absurd deficit to chase I'd almost be tempted to get Will Evans on at half time to target the break down even more with 3 opensides. Clutching at straws I know but Tigers need to change something to at least get something on the scoreboard for respect at the moment.

I just don't think we can do anything which would end in a result, we just aren't there yet with throwing it around. Now we are trying to force it.

nathan wrote:annoying that JP continually shouts for Sarries players to release yet they still hold on for a few more seconds. He hasn't given one penalty for it.

Saying that though, we've been woeful. Keep trying to force it which leads to errors

We've got away with the same thing a couple of times too. He's giving absolutely nothing at the breakdown to either side really. Sarries just have more players getting to the breakdown quickly so are slowing the ball more which makes that leniency more noticeable IMO.

king_carlos wrote:

nathan wrote:annoying that JP continually shouts for Sarries players to release yet they still hold on for a few more seconds. He hasn't given one penalty for it.

Saying that though, we've been woeful. Keep trying to force it which leads to errors

We've got away with the same thing a couple of times too. He's giving absolutely nothing at the breakdown to either side really. Sarries just have more players getting to the breakdown quickly so are slowing the ball more which makes that leniency more noticeable IMO.

I'm not i've heard him shouting for Tigers to release at all - we're too honest and not streetwise enough. We are lacking the energy too.

Can't complain about JP when we've gifted Sarries two tries and field position for the other two. We've actually created more but Sarries have stayed solid and just picked us apart from our errors. Our scramble defence has been poor as well.

I just hope we can put some semblance of pride into the score in the second half.

nathan wrote:

king_carlos wrote:With this absurd deficit to chase I'd almost be tempted to get Will Evans on at half time to target the break down even more with 3 opensides. Clutching at straws I know but Tigers need to change something to at least get something on the scoreboard for respect at the moment.

I just don't think we can do anything which would end in a result, we just aren't there yet with throwing it around. Now we are trying to force it.

Can Tigers change the result from here, no chance. Can we get something on the board for some respect and win the second half on points, yep.

Given the clear hangover being seen here from previous calamities at Allianz it would be a small fillip but at least something for the players to take away if they can outscore Sarries in the second half.

We play Too much like a NH trying to player super rugby football ATM.

Toomua and JPP are not flashy players but they are solid ones and we need them.

very true indeed. I hope the preseason will help the team no end. I like that we've played a better brand of rugby this season but we need to meld it with our normal forwards game

I think Vieanu has gone a bit of the boil too. Knocked on a lot

nathan wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

nathan wrote:annoying that JP continually shouts for Sarries players to release yet they still hold on for a few more seconds. He hasn't given one penalty for it.

Saying that though, we've been woeful. Keep trying to force it which leads to errors

We've got away with the same thing a couple of times too. He's giving absolutely nothing at the breakdown to either side really. Sarries just have more players getting to the breakdown quickly so are slowing the ball more which makes that leniency more noticeable IMO.

I'm not i've heard him shouting for Tigers to release at all - we're too honest and not streetwise enough. We are lacking the energy too.

I think that's more due to Sarries applying more pressure at the break down though. For Tigers only BOC and Thacker are really putting pressure on for a turnover, Locky has been surprisingly quiet at the breakdown. For Sarries all of Itoje, Kruis, Fraser and Billy are being a pain in the rear on the deck.

Given they are getting more players challenging for the ball they are getting away with more from JP being lenient at the breakdown.

What's the situation with refing those passes now?

Is it direction of the hands, is momentum considered...?

I'm always confused with it these days!

On just where Williams passed it and where TV got it that was forward though.

Why are we going for the posts?

I don't know whether momentum is taken into account or not. It looks worse because Williams follows the pass as opposed to running straight. Looked forward but no close ups on the hands. Bit of luck is what we needed.

Leo coming on, why? Thacker was far better in the first half and I can only think Thacker wasn't 100% at half time and they just gave him a little time to try and run it off.

I'm guessing the coaches have just said, "get a foothold on the scoreboard then play our game as confidence builds back a bit".

That's usually all coaches can say in a half time situation such as that anyway.

nathan wrote:Why are we going for the posts?

Get the scoreboard moving. Take any points we can at this point and see where we are after 20.

At least there's a game on now.

Sarries thinking they have won this already and there intensity has dropped?

king_carlos wrote:What's the situation with refing those passes now?

Is it direction of the hands, is momentum considered...?

I'm always confused with it these days!

On just where Williams passed it and where TV got it that was forward though.

miles forwards unfortunately - these officials really do seem to have eyesight difficulties ... I guess it evens up the Sarries forward pass they missed earlier but you have to wonder when there are clear reference points on the pitch (white lines) that they can still mess it up.

Another quick one whilst Fraser is in the bin and this is game on!