Ulster 2016/2017

First topic message reminder :

The build up to Ulsters gloriously successful 2016/2017 campaign starts here!

Allow summer optimism to get the better of you or discuss why we are in crisis right here on this thread- before weary resignation over the quality of forwards we have sinks in once again.

The idiot section of NuGwlad are watching us

Notch wrote:Also- what does it say about Irish players when guys like Coetzee and Piutau will move halfway across the world to play for Ulster despite being highly rated current internationals but someone like Jack Conan would rather sit on the bench behind Heaslip than move 2 hours up the road? Even on a loan deal? Ulster players the exact same. They would rather move to mediocre English clubs than go to another province even if it means dropping down to the Championship.

This is a bloody parochial country we live in.

This. With knobs on.

Kinsella interviews Kiss. Good article > 42

Munchkin wrote:Kinsella interviews Kiss. Good article > 42

I wish Kinsella would do a weekly deep dive rugby podcast. The rugby podcasts out there tend to be dire or SH focused.

The sooner you guys move away from archaic union control the better. This is stupid, and no less damaging (albeit in international terms) than SA's quotas. It's no wonder the provinces are so bad these days. Awful management by the IRFU.

Cyril wrote:The sooner you guys move away from archaic union control the better. This is stupid, and no less damaging (albeit in international terms) than SA's quotas. It's no wonder the provinces are so bad these days. Awful management by the IRFU.

Lets not go too over board. This is no where near as damaging as the racial quotas in SA.

Cyril wrote:The sooner you guys move away from archaic union control the better. This is stupid, and no less damaging (albeit in international terms) than SA's quotas. It's no wonder the provinces are so bad these days. Awful management by the IRFU.

Right, but without the Union we wouldn't be able to afford any of this in the first place. It is awful management, but it's their money thats been paying him all these years. Thanks to Ulster taking the money they invested in us and doing very smart things with it in terms of growing the business we can now probably afford his wages ourselves. But when he signed it was all down too the IRFU pumping money in. We're closer to financial independence now but still not there yet. So whats the plan for replacing that money without ending up in the same boat as the Scottish, Welsh and Italian teams financially?

If the provinces can become self-sustaining as profitable businesses while remaining competitive with the best in Europe we could renegotiate the relationship somewhat. But that seems like pie in the sky for the other three provinces and its a distant ambition still for us- we're falling behind financially even with union help, without the Union we'd be accumulating millions in debt or selling off the family silver. While the IRFU fund the provinces they can call the shots like any owner. Given the TV deals we couldn't bridge that gap without drawing closer to the PRL and starting a B/I league, which is handing a whole other set of men in suits power and influence over us- over eligibility rules, over the structure of the competitions we play in, over the length of the season, over everything. 12 English clubs will always outvote 4 Irish provinces and we've seen exactly how they respond to the idea of one country, one vote in the European Cup debacle. The big reason we can't get further into bed with them is they want to put club rugby above international rugby. Thats not my view. Provincial rugby exists to support international rugby the same way grassroots rugby supports provincial rugby. It would change us into being something similar to an English/French club. Thats not something I want at all.

I have no issue with the IRFU telling us who to sign for the good of the national team when the case is very logical and its evident that it will actually benefit the national team in some way. Thats how it should be. Thats not whats happening. The issue isn't Union control in of itself, its people employed there making very short-sighted decisions. Union control is the only reason we're not a rugby backwater.

Cyril wrote:The sooner you guys move away from archaic union control the better. This is stupid, and no less damaging (albeit in international terms) than SA's quotas. It's no wonder the provinces are so bad these days. Awful management by the IRFU.

When Wales and Ireland were kicking your hole up and down the road for 10 years at international level and the provinces were kicking your clubs holes up and down the road.....nothing. But as soon as you get a euro cup and a 6n medal in yizer ar5e pocket you come out with this cr4p

St John The Enforcer wrote:

Cyril wrote:The sooner you guys move away from archaic union control the better. This is stupid, and no less damaging (albeit in international terms) than SA's quotas. It's no wonder the provinces are so bad these days. Awful management by the IRFU.

When Wales and Ireland were kicking your hole up and down the road for 10 years at international level and the provinces were kicking your clubs holes up and down the road.....nothing. But as soon as you get a euro cup and a 6n medal in yizer ar5e pocket you come out with this cr4p

I thought you had taken your leave...

Cyril wrote:The sooner you guys move away from archaic union control the better. This is stupid, and no less damaging (albeit in international terms) than SA's quotas. It's no wonder the provinces are so bad these days. Awful management by the IRFU.

You're losing your touch, Cyril. Your wums a too obvious now, and lack any sense of humour.

wolfball wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Kinsella interviews Kiss. Good article > 42

I wish Kinsella would do a weekly deep dive rugby podcast. The rugby podcasts out there tend to be dire or SH focused.

Think that's a great idea. He's a great man for the detail.

Munchkin wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Ulster lost Wannenburg because of the original IRFU restrictions which were not to allow ANY NIQ contract extensions. Despite Ruan being a folk hero etc. UR cannot complain about being hard done by, having secured a couple of extensions. It was always clear that the last extension would be the last extension and seven years should have been plenty of time to organise a succession plan.

The announcement does raise several important issues:
- It is obvious that Ulster have a chill factor that stops the free movement of players to the province, so the IRFU policy could never have worked as originally envisaged
- Scrum half is the weakest position across Ireland and historically always has been
- Coaches and fans are paradigm-ed into thinking that the Scrum Half is solely a 'service provider' to the Outhalf.
- Schools in Ireland generally pick kids to play scrum half by how small they are rather than their skill-set!

If Pienaar had been born in Ireland he never would have been anywhere near the 9 shirt, and that is the underlying problem that is highlighted by his impending departure.

We can because we can't magic up an international standard SH. None of the Provinces can. Outside of Murray and Patterson, who else has there been?

I'm a big believer in succession planning, but I'm also a big believer in common sense. Something that the IRFU/Nucifora seem to lack.

Despite being told there will be no more extensions two years ago suddenly it is a surprise for many that there will be no more extensions. I love Ruan in both his attitude and loyalty but this day was always coming sooner or later - in Pienaars case later than Wannenburgs.

It could be argued that allowing Pienaar to move actually gives him a far better and deserved retirement package than he otherwise would have had if he had stayed. The same arguments were wheeled out when POC decided to move from Munster and with most people's blessing rather than outrage.

If Ireland aren't producing Scrum Halfs then is it OK for all the provinces to just keep importing NIQ ones? The logical corollary of that is that all four provinces have NIQ 9s so Ireland suffer. The IRFU's main breadwinner is the Test team and it is their responsibility to try to ensure they have competition for each position. Spreading the NIQ concession around the provinces is fair and Ulster have hogged that particular NIQ spot for seven years.

I agree that Murray and Patterson are the standout Irish scrummies but aside from them there is a big drop to the next level. It is a position that people don't care about in Ireland, so why would kids want to play there? A few years ago there were no centres in Ireland apart from BOD and D'Arcy. Ulster alone had Constable, Steinmetz, Larkin, Maggs and Dewey - none of which were homegrown and only Maggs IQ, yet now they have a plethora of choice so was it just luck that Ulster now have centres coming out their ears?

I have been an advocate of not reducing the provincial NIQs to less than five, because they will simply not play every game in the season and still pass on their nous to build depth, so I would have preferred Ruan to be allowed to stay. However there were signs last season that the 2016 vintage RP was not quite as sharp as the 2010 one so a change was looming even if Pienaar had got an extension. We can wring our hands all we like but Pienaar is still just another player who is one injury away from a long layoff, and Ulster and specifically Cunningham need to start thinking more out of the box to find a successor.

I do not accept that someone who can pass, kick and make decisions cannot play scrum half so I'd like to see some 10's being converted to 9s to increase the selection pool.

Notch wrote:Also- what does it say about Irish players when guys like Coetzee and Piutau will move halfway across the world to play for Ulster despite being highly rated current internationals but someone like Jack Conan would rather sit on the bench behind Heaslip than move 2 hours up the road? Even on a loan deal? Ulster players the exact same. They would rather move to mediocre English clubs than go to another province even if it means dropping down to the Championship.

This is a bloody parochial country we live in.

Even Nucifora is having a hard time trying to get players to swap provinces. The best solution for it is competition for places. We are starting to see more U20 players move provinces because there's a big queue in front of them in their native province. Before they could sit back and wait for their turn but not anymore.

I find it hard to comprehend that people legitimately think that Ulster Rugby have not been trying their very best to produce a legitimate successor and backup to Ruan Pienaar and that this decision to not extend his contract is some sort of major surprise. That is missing the point entirely.

There. Are. No. Decent. Options. Available.

None. With or without Ruan Pienaar, there are no IQ scrum-halves in Ulster that meet the required standard. If there were, Paul Marshall wouldn't be the backup for a start. He would have been replaced at this stage. Pienaar has not been the cause of this problem. In fact, it is much more likely that he is actually helpful to achieving this goal of unearthing quality Ulster 9s. He is an influential player and I'm sure many young up and coming 9s will have been inspired by him a great deal.

There is simply no logical sense in getting rid of a player who wants to say, whose club wants him to stay and who is quite obviously not hindering the development of any IQ player. Not one. There is simply no logic for this position other than rigidly sticking to this policy for the sake of it.

The Great Aukster wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Ulster lost Wannenburg because of the original IRFU restrictions which were not to allow ANY NIQ contract extensions. Despite Ruan being a folk hero etc. UR cannot complain about being hard done by, having secured a couple of extensions. It was always clear that the last extension would be the last extension and seven years should have been plenty of time to organise a succession plan.

The announcement does raise several important issues:
- It is obvious that Ulster have a chill factor that stops the free movement of players to the province, so the IRFU policy could never have worked as originally envisaged
- Scrum half is the weakest position across Ireland and historically always has been
- Coaches and fans are paradigm-ed into thinking that the Scrum Half is solely a 'service provider' to the Outhalf.
- Schools in Ireland generally pick kids to play scrum half by how small they are rather than their skill-set!

If Pienaar had been born in Ireland he never would have been anywhere near the 9 shirt, and that is the underlying problem that is highlighted by his impending departure.

We can because we can't magic up an international standard SH. None of the Provinces can. Outside of Murray and Patterson, who else has there been?

I'm a big believer in succession planning, but I'm also a big believer in common sense. Something that the IRFU/Nucifora seem to lack.

Despite being told there will be no more extensions two years ago suddenly it is a surprise for many that there will be no more extensions. I love Ruan in both his attitude and loyalty but this day was always coming sooner or later - in Pienaars case later than Wannenburgs.

It could be argued that allowing Pienaar to move actually gives him a far better and deserved retirement package than he otherwise would have had if he had stayed. The same arguments were wheeled out when POC decided to move from Munster and with most people's blessing rather than outrage.

If Ireland aren't producing Scrum Halfs then is it OK for all the provinces to just keep importing NIQ ones? The logical corollary of that is that all four provinces have NIQ 9s so Ireland suffer. The IRFU's main breadwinner is the Test team and it is their responsibility to try to ensure they have competition for each position. Spreading the NIQ concession around the provinces is fair and Ulster have hogged that particular NIQ spot for seven years.

I agree that Murray and Patterson are the standout Irish scrummies but aside from them there is a big drop to the next level. It is a position that people don't care about in Ireland, so why would kids want to play there? A few years ago there were no centres in Ireland apart from BOD and D'Arcy. Ulster alone had Constable, Steinmetz, Larkin, Maggs and Dewey - none of which were homegrown and only Maggs IQ, yet now they have a plethora of choice so was it just luck that Ulster now have centres coming out their ears?

I have been an advocate of not reducing the provincial NIQs to less than five, because they will simply not play every game in the season and still pass on their nous to build depth, so I would have preferred Ruan to be allowed to stay. However there were signs last season that the 2016 vintage RP was not quite as sharp as the 2010 one so a change was looming even if Pienaar had got an extension. We can wring our hands all we like but Pienaar is still just another player who is one injury away from a long layoff, and Ulster and specifically Cunningham need to start thinking more out of the box to find a successor.

I do not accept that someone who can pass, kick and make decisions cannot play scrum half so I'd like to see some 10's being converted to 9s to increase the selection pool.

Nicely argued Aukster. Particularly agree with your points on the POC comparison and the converting of 10s - Madigan was identified for that role as a backstop at the RWC.

McGrath and Marmion need to get more test game time in November and Six Nations. Blade & Cooney at Connacht need more high-profile game exposure. I note that Ulster have the most scrum-halves in their senior squad - Piennar, Marshall, Lloyd and Shanahan.

Connacht's squad is interesting. Despite not being tied to the quotas, they have only one foreign NIE on their books for this season - scrum-half Bomhoff is capped for SA. Poolman and Heenan have all been at the club for more than 3 years. Dominic Robertson-McCoy is of Irish descent. Tom McCartney and Bundee Aki would qualify in 2017 if they stay around. Another newbie, Nepia Fox-Matamua from NZ is also uncapped.

The Great Aukster wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Ulster lost Wannenburg because of the original IRFU restrictions which were not to allow ANY NIQ contract extensions. Despite Ruan being a folk hero etc. UR cannot complain about being hard done by, having secured a couple of extensions. It was always clear that the last extension would be the last extension and seven years should have been plenty of time to organise a succession plan.

The announcement does raise several important issues:
- It is obvious that Ulster have a chill factor that stops the free movement of players to the province, so the IRFU policy could never have worked as originally envisaged
- Scrum half is the weakest position across Ireland and historically always has been
- Coaches and fans are paradigm-ed into thinking that the Scrum Half is solely a 'service provider' to the Outhalf.
- Schools in Ireland generally pick kids to play scrum half by how small they are rather than their skill-set!

If Pienaar had been born in Ireland he never would have been anywhere near the 9 shirt, and that is the underlying problem that is highlighted by his impending departure.

We can because we can't magic up an international standard SH. None of the Provinces can. Outside of Murray and Patterson, who else has there been?

I'm a big believer in succession planning, but I'm also a big believer in common sense. Something that the IRFU/Nucifora seem to lack.

Despite being told there will be no more extensions two years ago suddenly it is a surprise for many that there will be no more extensions. I love Ruan in both his attitude and loyalty but this day was always coming sooner or later - in Pienaars case later than Wannenburgs.

It could be argued that allowing Pienaar to move actually gives him a far better and deserved retirement package than he otherwise would have had if he had stayed. The same arguments were wheeled out when POC decided to move from Munster and with most people's blessing rather than outrage.

If Ireland aren't producing Scrum Halfs then is it OK for all the provinces to just keep importing NIQ ones? The logical corollary of that is that all four provinces have NIQ 9s so Ireland suffer. The IRFU's main breadwinner is the Test team and it is their responsibility to try to ensure they have competition for each position. Spreading the NIQ concession around the provinces is fair and Ulster have hogged that particular NIQ spot for seven years.

I agree that Murray and Patterson are the standout Irish scrummies but aside from them there is a big drop to the next level. It is a position that people don't care about in Ireland, so why would kids want to play there? A few years ago there were no centres in Ireland apart from BOD and D'Arcy. Ulster alone had Constable, Steinmetz, Larkin, Maggs and Dewey - none of which were homegrown and only Maggs IQ, yet now they have a plethora of choice so was it just luck that Ulster now have centres coming out their ears?

I have been an advocate of not reducing the provincial NIQs to less than five, because they will simply not play every game in the season and still pass on their nous to build depth, so I would have preferred Ruan to be allowed to stay. However there were signs last season that the 2016 vintage RP was not quite as sharp as the 2010 one so a change was looming even if Pienaar had got an extension. We can wring our hands all we like but Pienaar is still just another player who is one injury away from a long layoff, and Ulster and specifically Cunningham need to start thinking more out of the box to find a successor.

I do not accept that someone who can pass, kick and make decisions cannot play scrum half so I'd like to see some 10's being converted to 9s to increase the selection pool.

So what if the IRFU told us there would be no more extensions? We have also been told that NIQ will be reduced to three and Project players are limited to one. The fact is that no scrum half looking close to international standard has emerged, otherwise P. Marshall wouldn't make the bench, and that should be taken into consideration. Ideals should be ruled by common sense.

It could be argued that Pienaar could get a better package outside of Ulster, and it could be argued that Pienaar would have been better off signing for France a couple of years ago. However, it wouldn't be true because it isn't what Pienaar wants for himself or his family. I'm certain that he knows what's best for him and his family. Ulster isn't just some place to earn a bit of cash for him. It's his home.

Leinster had former Ulster player, Isaac Boss, who has earned 16 caps for Ireland (Senior side). Munster have a top scrumhalf in Murray. Connacht have the very promising Marmion who has earned 6 caps with Ireland. Outside of Pienaar we have P Marshall..... and it doesn't look as if any real prospect is emerging. that's why it makes sense for Pienaar to stay.

No, it isn't luck that Ulster are blessed with centres. BOD and Darce bottle necked the progress of centres coming through, or I should say the IRFU did, and the one they replaced BOD with is a Kiwi... It's only since BOD retired that we recognise talented centres emerging from under his shadow, and not just those from Ulster.

I'm happy enough with the current NIQ. I do think the Provinces need some sort of persuasion, but it needs to be flexible to allow balance. Not what we are witnessing now. Something that is detrimental to Ulster, and ultimately the IRFU.

True that Pienaar hasn't been at his sharpest. Age is probably a factor, but now that he has retired from international rugby he will likely return to very good form. Even now he's the best we have. If we are to drop him for being off form we should really drop P Marshall first.

What is Bryn supposed to do? I get the impression he is very much someone who thinks outside the box, but the man's not a magician. There is no magic solution to this, and Ulster won't be producing a scrum-half for Ireland any time soon.

It would be great if we can find a 10 that can pass, kick and make decisions that can successfully convert to 9. Those type of 10s aren't falling out of the sky either though.

"To have NIQs filling two of the four starting number 9s with the province on a regular basis would not help in that regard, and unlike Pienaar, James Gibson-Park could potentially qualify for Ireland in three years’ time. So it was that Leinster were permitted to sign the latter from the Hurricanes.
Nor would Nucifora be doing his job properly if every decision he made met with the approval of all the provinces.
In the heel of the hunt though, you can’t help but feel that Ulster are paying for the IRFU’s decision to allow Leinster to sign Gibson-Park."


The Irish Times agrees with us lads

Nucifora has to do his job and I agree with needing to have the succession plans but heres the thing he isn't doing his job. Yes he did the pienaar thing and apparently blocked stephen moore but thats not his only job. So far he has persuaded pretty much no one to switch provinces to get more gametime and has lost a talented irish prop as well as other guys to teams in england and scotland. If he is going to do his job fine but he needs to do it properly.

neilthom7 wrote:Nucifora has to do his job and I agree with needing to have the succession plans but heres the thing he isn't doing his job.  Yes he did the pienaar thing and apparently blocked stephen moore but thats not his only job.  So far he has persuaded pretty much no one to switch provinces to get more gametime and has lost a talented irish prop as well as other guys to teams in england and scotland. If he is going to do his job fine but he needs to do it properly.

On the Moore thing Foley claimed there was no interest in him,

The Australian hooker, somebody said that to me. There isn’t anything in that. It has happened to us in the past around the media as well, where names are thrown out.

Everything is done behind closed doors. We are not going to talk about it in the public anyway because it is not worth our while.

Then seemed to say he'd rejected them

He’s not here, is he? We’re not signing him so... I’d imagine he’s rejected a few teams.

I think I’d be very slow to make a comment on it because I don’t know all the facts. OK?

Nucifora claims

Munster came to us with Stephen and said 'this is what we'd like to put forward'. There's a whole range of things that we think about that go into these decisions.

It wasn't blocked. There probably was an offer made to Moore. It just wasn't accepted

but makes an argument for not signing him

So, having a player that's still eligible to play international rugby that's going to cost a province a lot of money, is that the best use of the funds available, where he's going to be missing for a large portion of the season? Probably not

The whole thing smacks of someone screwing up somewhere

Moore seems off his game now anyway, possibly dodged a bullet, much like his lineouts.

munkian wrote:Moore seems off his game now anyway, possibly dodged a bullet, much like his lineouts.

Yeah he has gone right off form the end of the super rugby season into the internationals

Ulster team and replacements to play Newport Gwent Dragons, Friday 2nd September, Kingspan Stadium (kick-off 7.35pm):
(15-9): C Piutau; C Gilroy, S Olding, S McCloskey, J Stockdale; B Herron, R Pienaar;
(1-8): C Black, R Herring (captain), R Kane, P Browne, F van der Merwe, C Ross, S Reidy, R Wilson;
Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, K McCall, A Warwick, A O'Connor, R Diack, P Marshall, S Windsor, R Lyttle.

Exciting backs, weak pack

Have we broke Ah You already? Kane better have a great game.

Very happy to see Olding, Gilroy and Reidy return. Not a bad side.

In case you were wondering:

Newport Gwent Dragons team to face Ulster Rugby

15 Carl Meyer, 14 Adam Warren, 13 Sam Beard, 12 Jack Dixon, 11 Pat Howard, 10 Nick Macleod, 9 Sarel Pretorius; 1 Sam Hobbs, 2 Thomas Rhys Thomas (c), 3 Craig Mitchell 4 Cory Hill, 5 Rynard Landman, 6 Ollie Griffiths, 7 Nic Cudd, 8 Ed Jackson.

Replacements; Rhys Buckley, Tom Davies, Lloyd Fairbrother, Nick Crosswell, Lewis Evans, Charlie Davies, Angus O’Brien, Tyler Morgan.

Do you still play Wales's youngest ever player (winger) sorry I can't recall his name

Tom Prydie's still on our books, but he's been out injured for months.

Fair play to Ross Kane - scrum vs Canada A looked handy enough. Would rather have seen McPhillips over Windsor, and O'Connor's got a bit more grunt than Browne, but as I said above, Browne was certainly performing at the end of last season.

If we can get the ball to that backline, we could see some real sparks. Interested - and delighted - to see Olding at 13. Hasn't played much for us there.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Tom Prydie's still on our books, but he's been out injured for months.

Hopefuly back soon though. Hallam should be back against Zebre, Wardle's had his operation but not sure how long he is out for.

Big night for Ross Kane then- can't believe we have all four of our senior tight heads out injured at the same time. This big Georgian fella better be coming in on the next flight!

Will be exciting to see this back line develop over the next few months. It's already looking exceptionally tasty and thats before Luke Marshall, Paddy Jackson, Andrew Trimble and Jared Payne come back into the mix. Oh and Tommy Bowe and Darren Cave as well- but such is the depth I think they both might really struggle to crack our strongest 23 this season if everyone stays fit.

But in the meantime, give the ball to Charlie as much as possible and we'll be doing great!

Clive Ross was really good against Saints, and so- surprisingly for me- was Roger Wilson. Wilson is definitely a 50 minute man now mind you. Browne continues to surprise. If Kane can hold up his side of the scrum I think we can do some damage here.

Anyone doing a match thread for tonight's game ?

LordDowlais wrote:Anyone doing a match thread for tonight's game ?

I was waiting for George, he always does ours for us

I do not mind doing one, that is if nobody else is doing it.

Anyone know when Jared Payne will be back?

Pete330v2 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Anyone doing a match thread for tonight's game ?

I was waiting for George, he always does ours for us

https://www.606v2.com/t64053-glasgow-warriors-v-ulster-rugby-23-september

The Great Aukster wrote:Anyone know when Jared Payne will be back?

Christ I forgot we still had payne

Should this not now be renamed "Ulster: Season"?

So it seems Joe Barakat is leaving us early in December and heading back home to coach with the Force

Pushed? Might be a good thing, Marty. Maybe we will bring in someone better?

Doesn't look like it, job and family back home and it looks like a promotion too

Maybe we will finish the season with our coaches filling gaps?

I take it that as there wasn't a replacement announced there isn't one lined up, maybe would have been a good idea having that in place before allowing him to go

Damn shame.

As for pushed, no way. Firstly, no way would anyone do that in the middle of the season if they had a choice. Secondly, if they did they would control the breaking of the story to reveal the replacement at the same time. Western Force specifically thanked Ulster for their co-operation. Thats not a case of him being pushed out, he's been headhunted.

I wonder who will take his place? Will they cover him internally until the end of the season or get someone lined up before he goes. It is a few months away so they would have time

Yes, I think you're right, Marty/Notch. Clutching at straws. Well, we can only wait and see what happens. Hopefully the curse will be a blessing and we get someone who can improve on the work Barakat has done.

New defence coach - how about Ian Humphreys?

The Great Aukster wrote:New defence coach - how about Ian Humphreys?

Well they do say those who cant, teach

So folks...

not sure about the niceties of lifting a post wholesale from another forum, but saw this elsewhere on the interwebz posted by a Leinster fan...

Spent the last two days at an internal training/development course and we had Shane Logan in as a guest speaker this morning. Very interesting guy and some of the insights he gave concerning Ulster were pretty amazing.
Since he took over in 2010, they've gone from being one of the three lowest teams in terms of turnover to being the second largest in the UK and Ireland and are now ahead of Leinster.
IRFU monies now make up approx 15% of their total income compared to approx 66% a few years ago.
He's a very clear vision where he wants to take the province.
Ulster now spend more on their academy than any other team in Europe - they now have over 400 underage players on various development programmes.
The harnesses that the players wear measure up to 50 attributes but he has the coaching staff only analyzing 5. The harnesses can even give indications as to whether the player's stride is shortening (clear indication they are in danger of pulling a hamstring) or even if they might be in danger of having a stroke!!!
Spiv League teams play at a tempo of 65m/min, Ulster aim to play at 80m/min and conduct portions of their training sessions at 135m/min!

If even two-thirds of that is true...

Don Alfonso wrote:So folks...

not sure about the niceties of lifting a post wholesale from another forum, but saw this elsewhere on the interwebz posted by a Leinster fan...

Spent the last two days at an internal training/development course and we had Shane Logan in as a guest speaker this morning. Very interesting guy and some of the insights he gave concerning Ulster were pretty amazing.
Since he took over in 2010, they've gone from being one of the three lowest teams in terms of turnover to being the second largest in the UK and Ireland and are now ahead of Leinster.
IRFU monies now make up approx 15% of their total income compared to approx 66% a few years ago.
He's a very clear vision where he wants to take the province.
Ulster now spend more on their academy than any other team in Europe - they now have over 400 underage players on various development programmes.
The harnesses that the players wear measure up to 50 attributes but he has the coaching staff only analyzing 5. The harnesses can even give indications as to whether the player's stride is shortening (clear indication they are in danger of pulling a hamstring) or even if they might be in danger of having a stroke!!!
Spiv League teams play at a tempo of 65m/min, Ulster aim to play at 80m/min and conduct portions of their training sessions at 135m/min!

If even two-thirds of that is true...

If it's all true then it is pretty amazing. Hard to believe the IRFU's contribution is only 15%. If we really are investing so heavily on underage that is fantastic,

I think that the reasons Ulster haven't won trophies, the only real reasons, are in their heads. But we're doing everything else pretty well.

What I do think is that we are building something sustainable, that can last even in a hyper-competitve Europe.

Munchkin wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:So folks...

not sure about the niceties of lifting a post wholesale from another forum, but saw this elsewhere on the interwebz posted by a Leinster fan...

Spent the last two days at an internal training/development course and we had Shane Logan in as a guest speaker this morning. Very interesting guy and some of the insights he gave concerning Ulster were pretty amazing.
Since he took over in 2010, they've gone from being one of the three lowest teams in terms of turnover to being the second largest in the UK and Ireland and are now ahead of Leinster.
IRFU monies now make up approx 15% of their total income compared to approx 66% a few years ago.
He's a very clear vision where he wants to take the province.
Ulster now spend more on their academy than any other team in Europe - they now have over 400 underage players on various development programmes.
The harnesses that the players wear measure up to 50 attributes but he has the coaching staff only analyzing 5. The harnesses can even give indications as to whether the player's stride is shortening (clear indication they are in danger of pulling a hamstring) or even if they might be in danger of having a stroke!!!
Spiv League teams play at a tempo of 65m/min, Ulster aim to play at 80m/min and conduct portions of their training sessions at 135m/min!

If even two-thirds of that is true...

If it's all true then it is pretty amazing. Hard to believe the IRFU's contribution is only 15%. If we really are investing so heavily on underage that is fantastic,

Yeah 15% sounds very low. Didn't Ulster borrow some money from the IRFU a few years back for part of the stadium development? Maybe they're paying it back by getting less funding from the IRFU.


It's a great situation to be in compared with a few years back when the squad was very weak. Logan is doing a good job.

I think it was a handful of money they borrowed and prioritised paying it back - the vast majority came from the govt as a peace dividend.