Ulster 2016/2017

First topic message reminder :

The build up to Ulsters gloriously successful 2016/2017 campaign starts here!

Allow summer optimism to get the better of you or discuss why we are in crisis right here on this thread- before weary resignation over the quality of forwards we have sinks in once again.

Pot Hale wrote:

marty2086 wrote:That's new from Ulster cheers for finding that but IRFU still don't have it in theirs because I know the loan was given but related to the earlier work

Lol - you are so stubborn, Marty.  You're hanging on grimly by your fingertips to a withered daisy growing between two rocks at the top of the cliff.....

“I am pleased to report the Ulster Branch loan in respect of the Ravenhill development has been repaid in full. Well done Ulster.”  Tom Grace, IRFU Treasurer at publication of IRFU Annual Report.

Now you know where I got the information from.  

That's a statement from the Treasurer, its not the report

Nice to see O'Connor getting a bit of praise and attention. To be honest, I'd rate him more highly than any Leinster second row bar Toner. Delighted that it's Ulster where he's shining.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/brendan-fanning-rejected-by-leinster-dubliner-alan-oconnor-is-building-a-bright-future-in-ulster-35076160.html

Don Alfonso wrote:Nice to see O'Connor getting a bit of praise and attention. To be honest, I'd rate him more highly than any Leinster second row bar Toner. Delighted that it's Ulster where he's shining.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/brendan-fanning-rejected-by-leinster-dubliner-alan-oconnor-is-building-a-bright-future-in-ulster-35076160.html

Very good player. Liked him since watching him play his first game for Ulster. He's a lot of dog about him, which is what Ulster needs. Clarke gets a bit of stick, but that's a fine catch by him.

Browne is also rising to the top. A fine lineout operator, and a decent carrier. Could be that Browne and O'Connor are the best two locks we have (providing Henderson remains at 6). Van der Merwe played really well in his last game though.

O'Connor has that bit of aggression you want in the second row. Not nasty but happy to smash things.

Has Treadwell been playing for the ravens?

carpet baboon wrote:O'Connor has that bit of aggression you want in the second row. Not nasty but happy to smash things.

I don't mind if they are nasty at all. So long as they are nasty and within the margins of legal. Big Nick at his best was a nasty, marginally law abiding, beast!

I witnessed a bit of the dog in Ah You, against Glasgow. Have to say his rampaging little run that floored the opposition pleased me very much. I would really like to see that level of aggression from him when it matters. It mattered against Glasgow.

Munchkin wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:O'Connor has that bit of aggression you want in the second row. Not nasty but happy to smash things.

I witnessed a bit of the dog in Ah You, against Glasgow. Have to say his rampaging little run that floored the opposition pleased me very much.

I will gladly watch a tight forward go on the rampage like that through on an opposition defence all day long, even above watching a rapier like backs move end in a try.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:O'Connor has that bit of aggression you want in the second row. Not nasty but happy to smash things.

I witnessed a bit of the dog in Ah You, against Glasgow. Have to say his rampaging little run that floored the opposition pleased me very much.

I will gladly watch a tight forward go on the rampage like that through on an opposition defence all day long, even above watching a rapier like backs move end in a try.

Like this?



Meh. It's alright I guess.

Munchkin wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:O'Connor has that bit of aggression you want in the second row. Not nasty but happy to smash things.

I don't mind if they are nasty at all. So long as they are nasty and within the margins of legal. Big Nick at his best was a nasty, marginally law abiding, beast!

I witnessed a bit of the dog in Ah You, against Glasgow. Have to say his rampaging little run that floored the opposition pleased me very much. I would really like to see that level of aggression from him when it matters. It mattered against Glasgow.

I thought that was cracking. If he keeps that up, Schmidt & Co might get interested in him again. Seems to be enjoying a new lease of life at Ulster - always a good thing to see for a player. And he's the only one in the dressing room currently with a PRO12 medal I suppose.......

Run Pot!!!!! ................... I'll cover you for as long as I can! I only have one magazine though.

Not only that, he's also the only one of that Pro12 winning Connacht squad to have actually won a game so far this season! Bragging rights all over the shop for big Rodney

Notch wrote:Not only that, he's also the only one of that Pro12 winning Connacht squad to have actually won a game so far this season! Bragging rights all over the shop for big Rodney

Well, I'm sure AJ MaGinty would beg to differ given his headline-making contribution at the weekend in his win for Sale at Gloucester.

And I'm sure Robbie Henshaw was luxuriating in his new blue top as his team spanked the Ospreys....

then there's George Naopu in Harlequins with their brilliant win against Saracens.

Aly Muldowney in Grenoble

Henshaw didn't play and England isn't real. It's just a made-up place the media have created to sell newspapers.

Notch wrote:Henshaw didn't play and England isn't real. It's just a made-up place the media have created to sell newspapers.

And France?

Basically it's Dublin, Belfast, culchieland and the rest is Elephants all the way down.

Notch wrote:Basically it's Dublin, Belfast, culchieland and the rest is Elephants all the way down.

Gotcha, though I'm a bit partial to West Cork, betimes.

Then there's this view of the world

So they know about the Road to Belfast, but don't know about Belfast itself?

Notch wrote:So they know about the Road to Belfast, but don't know about Belfast itself?

Xactly

Is there any news on Olding yet from the Glasgow game or will there be later in the week?

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:O'Connor has that bit of aggression you want in the second row. Not nasty but happy to smash things.

I witnessed a bit of the dog in Ah You, against Glasgow. Have to say his rampaging little run that floored the opposition pleased me very much.

I will gladly watch a tight forward go on the rampage like that through on an opposition defence all day long, even above watching a rapier like backs move end in a try.

Absolutely. I love the way our backs are playing the game now, but there's no finer sight than watching a raging bull elephant running over the opposition. It's inspirational. Something that lifts the team while deflating the opposition. Before the season started, Ah You did say he wants to run over the top of players. He was true to his word against Glasgow

Pot Hale wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:O'Connor has that bit of aggression you want in the second row. Not nasty but happy to smash things.

I don't mind if they are nasty at all. So long as they are nasty and within the margins of legal. Big Nick at his best was a nasty, marginally law abiding, beast!

I witnessed a bit of the dog in Ah You, against Glasgow. Have to say his rampaging little run that floored the opposition pleased me very much. I would really like to see that level of aggression from him when it matters. It mattered against Glasgow.

I thought that was cracking.   If he keeps that up, Schmidt & Co might get interested in him again.   Seems to be enjoying a new lease of life at Ulster - always a good thing to see for a player.   And he's the only one in the dressing room currently with a PRO12 medal I suppose.......  

The pre-season training must be paying off, as well as being motivated by new surroundings and a fresh challenge. He looks slimmer/fitter than he was before coming to us. Hopefully he will transform into our front row version of Williams.

So, Marshall, Olding and McCloskey out of the Ospreys game. McCloskey out for at least 4 weeks with a foot injury. Olding has a groin problem that's not thought to be serious. Marshall still recovering from his concussion injury.

Good news on Olding, but really disappointing that we won't have McCloskey for the Euro's.

Trimble, Bowe and Tuohy have been taking a full part in training, and very close to a return. A conundrum for Kiss

10) Jacko 11) Piutau 12) Cave 13) Ludik 14)Trimble/Gilroy 15) Payne

I reckon

11. Piutau
12. Cave
13. Ludik
14. Trimble
15. Payne

For the weekend. Alternatively Ludik to the left wing, Trimble to the right wing and Piutau to the centre. I would have Piutau or Ludik at centre before Payne, I think Payne is a test class centre but he's having a field day running lines from deep with these guys in front of him. Piutau can definitely play 13, he's really strong in contact and he's quick and smart.

Gilroy and Bowe are back training, but I think Ludik deserves to keep his place over them. People say that him eventually qualifying on residency doesn't mean anything but I've seen worse backs get capped for Ireland even in the last five years. If he was Irish I think he'd be run the conversation regarding the squad for November.

Notch wrote: I reckon

11. Piutau
12. Cave
13. Ludik
14. Trimble
15. Payne

For the weekend. Alternatively Ludik to the left wing, Trimble to the right wing and Piutau to the centre. I would have Piutau or Ludik at centre before Payne, I think Payne is a test class centre but he's having a field day running lines from deep with these guys in front of him. Piutau can definitely play 13, he's really strong in contact and he's quick and smart.

Gilroy and Bowe are back training, but I think Ludik deserves to keep his place over them. People say that him eventually qualifying on residency doesn't mean anything but I've seen worse backs get capped for Ireland even in the last five years. If he was Irish I think he'd be run the conversation regarding the squad for November.

I would go with that backline, although I'm not sure Kiss will want Trimble in the starting XV for his first game back. Starting Trimble would solve the problem of who starts as Captain, unless Herring starts with Trimble on the bench. Maybe best for Herring to get a bit of a break anyway (no pun intended).

Ludik qualifying on residency means something. He is a better utility back than McFadden. It would also allow Ludik to move more freely around the Provinces, if it comes to that.

Good that I wasn't holdings knee. I think starting cave ludik against the hairsprays will do the job required.
Have to say ah you and ludik have both been outstanding so far

carpet baboon wrote:Good that I wasn't holdings knee. I think starting cave ludik against the hairsprays  will do the job required.
Have to say ah you and ludik have both been outstanding so far

They have been. Reidy has been a star as well, and I'm really warming to Ross. The forwards have really stood up, easing our fears of strength of pack. Long may that continue.

The thing I like about Cave and Ludik, especially together in the centre, is that are both rock solid. Very rarely go off during a match. If we are being honest Marshall and Olding are looking more than a little bit brittle at this stage.

Artful_Dodger wrote:The thing I like about Cave and Ludik, especially together in the centre, is that are both rock solid.  Very rarely go off during a match.  If we are being honest Marshall and Olding are looking more than a little bit brittle at this stage.

This +1.

Yes, as much as we've talked about how good it would be to spread these centres around the provinces Ulster should resist that unless the offer is too good to be true, because either one of those two is another bad injury away from their career being in jeopardy. Repeated concussions/knee ligament injuries is no joke. Now the concussion Marshall suffered is one almost anyone might have suffered, it was a might thump on the head, and apparently Olding is grand. So no need to overreact. But there's always the fear isn't there, when you see them go down...

At this stage if we were offered a really good back row for a centre I might be inclined to say no, as Reidy and Ross have been Revelations this season and the breakdown is much, much improved. We will need to replace Wilson but Coetzee and Henry are yet to come back from injury and Diack isn't making the starting team right now. So we could use another signing there but the back row is absolutely nowhere near as bad as we feared over the summer.

What will be a big issue is where Henderson plays. It has to be blindside when you look at the depth we have in the second row. O'Connor, Treadwell, Van Der Merwe and Tuohy coming back is pretty handy. I hope that we keep Henderson in the back row, but we may be told to play him for a certain number of games at second row. Although after Ruan-gate I can't imagine relations are too friendly at the moment! Maybe Ulster won't be taking their calls for a bit...

Notch wrote:Yes, as much as we've talked about how good it would be to spread these centres around the provinces Ulster should resist that unless the offer is too good to be true, because either one of those two is another bad injury away from their career being in jeopardy. Repeated concussions/knee ligament injuries is no joke. Now the concussion Marshall suffered is one almost anyone might have suffered, it was a might thump on the head, and apparently Olding is grand. So no need to overreact. But there's always the fear isn't there, when you see them go down...

At this stage if we were offered a really good back row for a centre I might be inclined to say no, as Reidy and Ross have been Revelations this season and the breakdown is much, much improved. We will need to replace Wilson but Coetzee and Henry are yet to come back from injury and Diack isn't making the starting team right now. So we could use another signing there but the back row is absolutely nowhere near as bad as we feared over the summer.

What will be a big issue is where Henderson plays. It has to be blindside when you look at the depth we have in the second row. O'Connor, Treadwell, Van Der Merwe and Tuohy coming back is pretty handy. I hope that we keep Henderson in the back row, but we may be told to play him for a certain number of games at second row. Although after Ruan-gate I can't imagine relations are too friendly at the moment! Maybe Ulster won't be taking their calls for a bit...

All hypothetical of course but I'd take a backrow player in a heartbeat. Coetzee and Henderson are the only two truly Test class backrows at Ulster. Henry is arguably close but will be 32 in a couple of weeks and seems to be missing more than present of late. Wilson (age 35) has started the season well but needs to be subbed around 50 minutes. Reidy and Ross have also improved from where they were but Diack has possibly regressed from where he was. Treadwell is also supposed to be able to play backrow but hasn't been trusted there as yet, and Dow, Taggart and Mulholland are miles off.

Ulster have been able to get away with the lack of ball carrying in the backrow because they are trying to play a continuity game on good surfaces, but in heavier conditions that will become more difficult. I wouldn't be getting rid of any centres either but Ulster still need at least two more higher standard backrows if they hope to prosper in competitions over long seasons.

Yeah obviously I want us to sign a few more back rows and don't think we have overnight solved our back row problems, but it's no longer at the point where I would be willing to let a truly exceptional player leave just to get a new signing there especially if there is even a slightly higher than average chance we may lose a player in the same position.

On the subject of trying to tempt back rows North, I wonder whether they will relax the restrictions on outbidding other provinces for players based in Ireland. Not saying we turn it into a highest bidder free for all, but the IRFU could give permission for provinces to outbid each other in specific scenarios (such as when they want a player in a certain position to move provinces) or else the IRFU could pay them more on top of their provincial contract if they move.

It seems so obvious that I would be surprised if it isn't already happening, but you know... IRFU.

Notch wrote:Yeah obviously I want us to sign a few more back rows and don't think we have overnight solved our back row problems, but it's no longer at the point where I would be willing to let a truly exceptional player leave just to get a new signing there especially if there is even a slightly higher than average chance we may lose a player in the same position.

On the subject of trying to tempt back rows North, I wonder whether they will relax the restrictions on outbidding other provinces for players based in Ireland. Not saying we turn it into a highest bidder free for all, but the IRFU could give permission for provinces to outbid each other in specific scenarios (such as when they want a player in a certain position to move provinces) or else the IRFU could pay them more on top of their provincial contract if they move.

It seems so obvious that I would be surprised if it isn't already happening, but you know... IRFU.

Reports today that Munster are after Dillane and Aki and given that Leinster were allowed to poach Henshaw it would seem the restrictions have at least been loosened to an extent, that or Connacht are being shafted.

On Marshalls injury, Im pretty sure I heard Niall Malone say last week it wasn't a concussion. Is it an extended return to play window because of his history or has he maybe developed symptoms since then?

Interesting. P-Marsh to start. Treadwell on bench. Bowe back in the white. Andrew rather than Herring.

PROPER ROTATION

And Bowe ahead of Trimble. Not sure how I feel about Marshall starting ahead of Pienaar, but then Pienaar will need a rest at some point.

I would have liked Browne on the bench for this game as well, but looking forward to seeing how Treadwell copes.

Ospreys are a very good team, and Ulster don't usually cope well repeating big performances, back to back. I'm a wee bit nervous about this one.

I think we might see more of Marshall and others this season. They themselves, and the coaches will be well aware they will need to step up. I'm sure they are being coached intensively and have specific goals and areas to work on. Game time is important to that.

clivemcl wrote:I think we might see more of Marshall and others this season. They themselves, and the coaches will be well aware they will need to step up. I'm sure they are being coached intensively and have specific goals and areas to work on. Game time is important to that.

I suppose it's a balance, but we really need the strongest sides/starting XV for the more challenging games. This is a more challenging game.

Maybe Kiss will switch Payne back to FB when Pienaar comes on?

Good to see rotation going to take some getting used to but given the Pienaar situation small Paul needs to step up in games like this and find his form of a few years ago

marty2086 wrote:Good to see rotation going to take some getting used to but given the Pienaar situation small Paul needs to step up in games like this and find his form of a few years ago

Marshall is a player that needs a string of starting games to raise his form. He can do it, but it takes time, and with Pienaar with us throughout the season I don't think he will get those starts.

Munchkin wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Good to see rotation going to take some getting used to but given the Pienaar situation small Paul needs to step up in games like this and find his form of a few years ago

Marshall is a player that needs a string of starting games to raise his form. He can do it, but it takes time, and with Pienaar with us throughout the season I don't think he will get those starts.

Tomorrow will be telling, if he can deliver a good performance we may see some regular rotation between the two if not then he may out on a huge opportunity

With that backline though and a strong pack it should make it a lot easier for him

marty2086 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Good to see rotation going to take some getting used to but given the Pienaar situation small Paul needs to step up in games like this and find his form of a few years ago

Marshall is a player that needs a string of starting games to raise his form. He can do it, but it takes time, and with Pienaar with us throughout the season I don't think he will get those starts.

Tomorrow will be telling, if he can deliver a good performance we may see some regular rotation between the two if not then he may out on a huge opportunity

With that backline though and a strong pack it should make it a lot easier for him

I'm not expecting too much from him in his first start, or expecting that he somehow transforms into an international standard Scrummy. Just hoping he has a solid game without a brain wobble!

I think Payne is there to strengthen defence, so hopefully we don't fall behind in the first half.

I hope we come out all guns blazing. Last we showed if you take the game to them and do t give them an inch Webb can fall apart. And with gash ball bigger isn't a threat.

I think we will have the bonus point by 35 mins (god why am I so optimistic)

But part of me says ospreys can't be as bad as they were last week, can they?

carpet baboon wrote:I hope we come out all guns blazing. Last we showed if you take the game to them and do t give them an inch Webb can fall apart. And with gash ball bigger isn't a threat.

I think we will have the bonus point by 35 mins (god why am I so optimistic)

But part of me says ospreys can't be as bad as they were last week, can they?

Ospreys were good in the last 30 minutes of the game, and this is a stronger Ospreys side. I wish I had your optimism though

Munchkin wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:I hope we come out all guns blazing. Last we showed if you take the game to them and do t give them an inch Webb can fall apart. And with gash ball bigger isn't a threat.

I think we will have the bonus point by 35 mins (god why am I so optimistic)

But part of me says ospreys can't be as bad as they were last week, can they?

Ospreys were good in the last 30 minutes of the game, and this is a stronger Ospreys side. I wish I had your optimism though

Think it's having been off work this week and digging out tons of rubble and turfing the garden has me a little delirious. Far to much fresh air and hard work

Ah, the fresh air... Well, they do say too much of a good thing is bad for you. So don't be greedy with the fresh air

Any injuries picked up against the Ospreys aside from Henderson in the warm up?