Ulster 2016/2017

First topic message reminder :

The build up to Ulsters gloriously successful 2016/2017 campaign starts here!

Allow summer optimism to get the better of you or discuss why we are in crisis right here on this thread- before weary resignation over the quality of forwards we have sinks in once again.

Van der Merwe looks to have rolled his ankle. He had it strapped up but was able to play on.

Ah You went off with an injury to his elbow. He had it strapped up, but removed the strapping before the end of game, and had no difficulty shaking hands, after match.

Hopefully all are fit to play next week, especially Henderson.

What did Henderson do to his elbow?

Don't know but we really missed him last night!

Glad to see the penalty decision that won us the game was the right call. Relieved because that wouldn't be a good way to win it.

Thought the Ospreys coach was funny, implying they deserved more in a game where they didn't score a single point for 75 minutes! How often do you see a team score 7 points and win a game on the back of that? We were the only team putting the referee on the spot because we controlled the ball and where the game was played bar a few very good but very well-defended counter-attacks. And we got our just rewards in the end I'm relieved to say, because they did defend magnificently.

Ulster European Squad.

LOOSEHEADS
Kyle McCall
Callum Black
Andy Warwick

HOOKERS
Rory Best
Rob Herring
John Andrew

TIGHTHEADS
Rodney Ah You
Ricky Lutton
Ross Kane
Anton Peikrishvili

SECOND ROW
Franco Van Der Merwe
Pete Browne
Alan O'Connor
Dan Tuohy
Kieran Treadwell

BACK ROW
Iain Henderson
Chris Henry
Marcell Coetzee
Clive Ross
Sean Reidy
Roger Wilson
Robbie Diack
Matt Rea

SCRUMHALVES
Ruan Pienaar
Paul Marshall
David Shanahan

FLYHALVES
Paddy Jackson
Brett Herron
Sam Windsor

CENTRES
Luke Marshall
Stuart Olding
Stuart McCloskey
Darren Cave

BACK THREE
Jared Payne
Charles Piutau
Andrew Trimble
Tommy Bowe
Louis Ludik
Craig Gilroy
Jacob Stockdale
Rob Lyttle

Notable absentees - Herbst and Nelson.

So Payne at fullback is official?

What has happened to Herbst? I thought he was coming close to full recovery but obviously not.

Munchkin wrote:So Payne at fullback is official?

No, I found them in alphabetical order. That is some Don Editorialising.

I see Simon Danielli making the papers again but for the wrong reasons this time.

Don't know how much truth there is to all that, Pete. I think she accused him of assault after he reported her for smashing up his car....

http://www.the42.ie/munster-connacht-pro12-stats-3010127-Oct2016/

The 42 lavishing some praise on Munster and Connacht, but no love for Clive Ross (most turnovers in the Pro12 so fat this season) or Piutau. Reidy also going well with the tackles.

Only watched the game last night. What about that try saver from Ludik? He is looking to be in contention for a green jersey when the time comes!

clivemcl wrote:Only watched the game last night. What about that try saver from Ludik? He is looking to be in contention for a green jersey when the time comes!

That the tackle on Eli Walker?

Was that not Payne?

marty2086 wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Only watched the game last night. What about that try saver from Ludik? He is looking to be in contention for a green jersey when the time comes!

That the tackle on Eli Walker?

Was that not Payne?

You are thinking of this one - also good!

https://youtu.be/wDRpMA6lZZ8?t=1h23m28s

Ludik's...
https://youtu.be/wDRpMA6lZZ8?t=1h35m10s

clivemcl wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Only watched the game last night. What about that try saver from Ludik? He is looking to be in contention for a green jersey when the time comes!

That the tackle on Eli Walker?

Was that not Payne?

You are thinking of this one - also good!

https://youtu.be/wDRpMA6lZZ8?t=1h23m28s

Ludik's...
https://youtu.be/wDRpMA6lZZ8?t=1h35m10s

Forgot about that one, the funny thing was it was right in front of me

It seems to be something we have really stepped up on this season, those last ditch scrambles to prevent a certain try from Piutaus interception a few weeks ago to Payne and Ludik at the weekend

Just watched a live broadcast from Ulster Rugby of Les fielding some submitted questions from Ulster fans.

Byldi hell, you'd think we were at the bottom of the league with no points. Brutal. "How dare you rest Ruan!" and "Why are we such underachievers?" are highlights. "Are you even looking for a replacement for Ruan?" Embarrassing.

Les does think, however that, Kyle is the archetypal modern prop with the complete skillset. He's only getting back to the level he was at last season, though, after injury.

Don Alfonso wrote:Just watched a live broadcast from Ulster Rugby of Les fielding some submitted questions from Ulster fans.

Byldi hell, you'd think we were at the bottom of the league with no points. Brutal. "How dare you rest Ruan!" and "Why are we such underachievers?" are highlights. "Are you even looking for a replacement for Ruan?" Embarrassing.

Les does think, however that, Kyle is the archetypal modern prop with the complete skillset. He's only getting back to the level he was at last season, though, after injury.  

Seen some of the posted questions this was my favourite

Ulster are now becoming known as a team of perennial underachievers - this year is starting out that way - how are you gonna change it around Les? And in a hurry? Are we concentrating on European or Pro12? The fans are getting a little fed up with being the "nearly" men every year...

5 wins from 6 and a LBP away to the current champions is apparently underachieving

Just looking through some of those facebook questions, goodness me some people have no clue.

I mean why even ask are Ulster searching for a replacement for Pienaar, well they are hardly sitting there thinking sure we will just play Rory Best at scrumhalf are they. The questions about ambassadorial and coaching roles too, Ruan is not retiring, if he was retiring then ask that but as he is still playing he would take a massive salary cut to be a coach compared to what he could get for a couple more years play elsewhere, once he retires then we should do our upmost to get him back. Also we are top of the league how much better does that guy want it to be?

Oh Ulster just put out a tweet

Ulster Rugby ‏@UlsterRugby 18m18 minutes ago Belfast, Northern Ireland

Injury news: @louisludik has a fractured cheek bone (out for 4-6 weeks) & @darrencave13 has a calf tear (3-4 weeks out). Get well soon lads!

Because the Facebook fans are hysterical, enitled numpties who don't remember the dark days when we would routinely struggle to finish ahead of Connacht and the Italians at the bottom of the league.

neilthom7 wrote:Oh Ulster just put out a tweet

Ulster Rugby ‏@UlsterRugby 18m18 minutes ago Belfast, Northern Ireland

Injury news: @louisludik has a fractured cheek bone (out for 4-6 weeks) & @darrencave13 has a calf tear (3-4 weeks out). Get well soon lads!

So Olding and Marshall then? Payne's fine and Piutau should be back as well - close to playing last week apparently.

Yeah looks like olding, marshall, piatau and VDM are all hopefully available according to Ulster's twitter so you would guess olding and marshall or possible one of those guys and Payne in the middle

Luke Marshall is at least 6 weeks away according to the last press updates.  I think we are going to be looking at either Payne or Piutau at 13 (hopefully Piutau) and hopefully Olding ready to come back in at 12 as McCloskey is a while away as well.

15 - Payne
14 - Bowe
13 - Piutau
12 - Olding
11- Gilroy

Returning Andrew Trimble to get game time off the bench perhaps?  I think the above is the best we can hope for and I'm not 100% Olding is going to be ready in time.  

Also, reading some of the comments submitted to Kiss, I'm glad the standards on here are much higher, great board to be on.

EDIT,

Sorry I confused Marshall's injury with McCloskey, it is McCloskey who is at least 6 weeks away.

Although, just last week the 42.IE said Marshall was 2-3 weeks away as well, happy for them to be wrong though.

http://www.the42.ie/ulster-injury-update-mccloskey-piutau-3012675-Oct2016/

I have no idea Artful but this is the tweet the official Ulster rugby page tweeted so I presume he will be ok

Ulster Rugby ‏@UlsterRugby 1h1 hour ago Belfast, Northern Ireland

Injury update: @OKissy has confirmed that he's hopeful to have @CPiutau @lukemarshall121 @stuart_olding & Franco back for this weekend

Yep Ulster Rugby on facebook back it up so I believe you are correct:

Kingspan Player of the Month for September, Louis Ludik, has fractured his cheek bone and will be out for 4-6 weeks
Darren Cave will be out for 3-4 weeks with a calf tear
Charles Piutau, Luke Marshall, Stu Olding and Franco van der Merwe expected to return this weekend.

Any word on Trimble anyone?

Latest tweet says Tuohy and Trimble will be available this weekend too

neilthom7 wrote:Oh Ulster just put out a tweet

Ulster Rugby ‏@UlsterRugby 18m18 minutes ago Belfast, Northern Ireland

Injury news: @louisludik has a fractured cheek bone (out for 4-6 weeks) & @darrencave13 has a calf tear (3-4 weeks out). Get well soon lads!

Suspected it might be a fractured cheek bone. Drat!

So what to deduct from all that...?

15 - Payne
14 - Bowe
13 - Marshall
12 - Olding
11 - Piutau

23 - Trimble/Gilroy

If as expected all of the above are available?

Artful_Dodger wrote:So what to deduct from all that...?

15 - Payne
14 - Bowe
13 - Marshall
12 - Olding
11 - Piutau

23 - Trimble/Gilroy

If as expected all of the above are available?

Not bad for a cobbled together side.

Munchkin wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:So what to deduct from all that...?

15 - Payne
14 - Bowe
13 - Marshall
12 - Olding
11 - Piutau

23 - Trimble/Gilroy

If as expected all of the above are available?

Not bad for a cobbled together side.

Yep, pretty outrageous to put a backline like that out with people of Ludik and McCloskey quality missing. What concerns me is that the backline haven't fully clicked at any point this season. We haven't seen a really ruthless performance when it comes to finishing opportunities. A lot of that is quality of ball from the pack but the backlines we are putting out should be doing better. I'm optimistic though, a big performance is coming and I hope its this weekend.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:So what to deduct from all that...?

15 - Payne
14 - Bowe
13 - Marshall
12 - Olding
11 - Piutau

23 - Trimble/Gilroy

If as expected all of the above are available?

Not bad for a cobbled together side.

Yep, pretty outrageous to put a backline like that out with people of Ludik and McCloskey quality missing.  What concerns me is that the backline haven't fully clicked at any point this season.  We haven't seen a really ruthless performance when it comes to finishing opportunities.  A lot of that is quality of ball from the pack but the backlines we are putting out should be doing better.  I'm optimistic though, a big performance is coming and I hope its this weekend.

A fair point, Dodger. The backline hasn't really clicked yet, or maybe better to say the team as a whole hasn't clicked yet. We have been treated to some lovely rugby, but only in flashes. I think the Glasgow game has been our best performance, and that game was far from perfect. The backline hasn't had a chance to settle yet, and I do believe it will click. Hopefully in our next game.

Munchkin wrote:Not bad for a cobbled together side.

It's pretty good! The problem is, its still a cobbled together side. Injuries have meant we have had to have new combinations every single week. Like, I'd love to see Ruan Pienaar and Paddy Jackson together for a run of games- obviously thats what the plan is for Europe. Jackson was rested due to player management at the start of the season and just as he's back Pienaar has been rested for a bit.

Obviously the centre partnership has been chopped and changed so much due to injuries. I fully expect almost all of our outside backs to have had a go at playing centre by the end of the season- seriously. The only one of our frontline backs I don't see starting or being moved to centre at some point in a game is Craig Gilroy. Bowe, Trimble etc. will all have to fill in there at some point.

Notch wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Not bad for a cobbled together side.

It's pretty good! The problem is, its still a cobbled together side. Injuries have meant we have had to have new combinations every single week. Like, I'd love to see Ruan Pienaar and Paddy Jackson together for a run of games- obviously thats what the plan is for Europe. Jackson was rested due to player management at the start of the season and just as he's back Pienaar has been rested for a bit.

Obviously the centre partnership has been chopped and changed so much due to injuries. I fully expect almost all of our outside backs to have had a go at playing centre by the end of the season- seriously. The only one of our frontline backs I don't see starting or being moved to centre at some point in a game is Craig Gilroy. Bowe, Trimble etc. will all have to fill in there at some point.

Actually you should be praying Notch because any more injuries in the centre and it will be you and me in there and I'm just telling you I ain't going to be the one doing all the tackling.
Seriously though we do need the consistency but the injuries are proving too much, we also need good ball so the forwards need to sharpen up at the breakdown

Assuming all our backs are fit and in form what's your go to back line?
Everytime I think I have settled on the right combo I change my mind.
To much of a good thing I guess

neilthom7 wrote:

Notch wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Not bad for a cobbled together side.

It's pretty good! The problem is, its still a cobbled together side. Injuries have meant we have had to have new combinations every single week. Like, I'd love to see Ruan Pienaar and Paddy Jackson together for a run of games- obviously thats what the plan is for Europe. Jackson was rested due to player management at the start of the season and just as he's back Pienaar has been rested for a bit.

Obviously the centre partnership has been chopped and changed so much due to injuries. I fully expect almost all of our outside backs to have had a go at playing centre by the end of the season- seriously. The only one of our frontline backs I don't see starting or being moved to centre at some point in a game is Craig Gilroy. Bowe, Trimble etc. will all have to fill in there at some point.

Actually you should be praying Notch because any more injuries in the centre and it will be you and me in there and I'm just telling you I ain't going to be the one doing all the tackling.
Seriously though we do need the consistency but the injuries are proving too much, we also need good ball so the forwards need to sharpen up at the breakdown

Thats too bad because I'm a superhero for 5 minutes and then I'm just exhausted and blowing hard for the rest of the game! Still sent Les and Doaky my phone number just in case like.

carpet baboon wrote:Assuming all our backs are fit and in form what's your go to back line?
Everytime I think I have settled on the right combo I change my mind.
To much of a good thing I guess

I wish I was paid enough to even have a go at deciding what my favorite backline was of ours when everyone is fit, that's why Les is on the big bucks but probably for me something like

Pienaar, Jackson, Piatau, Olding, Marshall, Trimble, Payne

however there are about 10 acceptable answers to that question

Notch wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:

Notch wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Not bad for a cobbled together side.

It's pretty good! The problem is, its still a cobbled together side. Injuries have meant we have had to have new combinations every single week. Like, I'd love to see Ruan Pienaar and Paddy Jackson together for a run of games- obviously thats what the plan is for Europe. Jackson was rested due to player management at the start of the season and just as he's back Pienaar has been rested for a bit.

Obviously the centre partnership has been chopped and changed so much due to injuries. I fully expect almost all of our outside backs to have had a go at playing centre by the end of the season- seriously. The only one of our frontline backs I don't see starting or being moved to centre at some point in a game is Craig Gilroy. Bowe, Trimble etc. will all have to fill in there at some point.

Actually you should be praying Notch because any more injuries in the centre and it will be you and me in there and I'm just telling you I ain't going to be the one doing all the tackling.
Seriously though we do need the consistency but the injuries are proving too much, we also need good ball so the forwards need to sharpen up at the breakdown

Thats too bad because I'm a superhero for 5 minutes and then I'm just exhausted and blowing hard for the rest of the game! Still sent Les and Doaky my phone number just in case like.

See I come in to my own in the last ten when everyone is tired so thats 15 minutes of the 80 covered maybe we could just take the other 65 mins off? Seems to work for Roger Wilson

carpet baboon wrote:Assuming all our backs are fit and in form what's your go to back line?
Everytime I think I have settled on the right combo I change my mind.
To much of a good thing I guess

15 - Payne
14 - Bowe
13 - Marshall
12 - McCloskey
11 - Piutau
10 - Jackson
9 - Pienaar

The controversial one being Bowe ahead of Gilroy and Trimble - I still think that on form Tommy is just too good to leave out, everytime he comes back he scores try and the angles he hits are ludicrous.

I think those guys firing on all cylinders (you said fit and in form) is our best backline. In some ways its good that we will never have the luxury of this idealism. To maintain the depth that we have we need to make sure that guys missing from the above (Trimble, Gilroy, Ludik, Cave, Lyttle and Stockdale) get regular game time. With injuries and international call ups all of them will get game time. If the start to the season we have had is anything to go by at least....

carpet baboon wrote:Assuming all our backs are fit and in form what's your go to back line?
Everytime I think I have settled on the right combo I change my mind.
To much of a good thing I guess

9. Pienaar
10. Jackson
11. Piutau
12. Olding or McCloskey
13. Marshall
14. Trimble
15. Payne

Absolutely depends on who we're playing in terms of 12. Sometimes you play teams who tend to play a fast game and then nimble feet and quick hands of Olding are very useful. Other times, we play teams that are very obdurate and hard to break down and thats where the hard running of McCloskey comes in.

But the big thing is if we lack ball carriers in the forwards, maybe we need guys like Ludik, Trimble, Piutau and especially McCloskey too carry more ball, which is ultra frustrating because thats not what we pay them for. We want to see these guys in space.

Coetzee getting fit will be huge for us, but also hoping Chris Henry can really get himself fit and somewhere close to his best form. I think that could be very important. Unfortunately haven't seen many updates on him.

neilthom7 wrote:See I come in to my own in the last ten when everyone is tired so thats 15 minutes of the 80 covered maybe we could just take the other 65 mins off? Seems to work for Roger Wilson

Now you're thinking like an Ulster coach

Notch wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:See I come in to my own in the last ten when everyone is tired so thats 15 minutes of the 80 covered maybe we could just take the other 65 mins off? Seems to work for Roger Wilson

Now you're thinking like an Ulster coach

Oh I just realised I can't possibly play for Ulster cos I can ruck and that's not allowed

My major conundrum is 12. Olding has all the natural skills and is surprisingly hard as nails for his size.
McCloskey is a frikin unit and has lively feet and soft hands.
Marshall I love at twelve because he's hard as frik great hands and a fantastic kicking game.
Cave when he plays 12 has always looked good.
It's just so confusing for me. I'm going to stop thinking about it as when you get to the back three it gets even worse.
I'm glad I'm not Les. Although i would like his pay check

neilthom7 wrote:

Notch wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:See I come in to my own in the last ten when everyone is tired so thats 15 minutes of the 80 covered maybe we could just take the other 65 mins off? Seems to work for Roger Wilson

Now you're thinking like an Ulster coach

Oh I just realised I can't possibly play for Ulster cos I can ruck and that's not allowed

Yeah I'm great at rucking. Oh no wait, I didn't mean rucking I meant something else. No, I can't actually ruck.

Notch wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:

Notch wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:See I come in to my own in the last ten when everyone is tired so thats 15 minutes of the 80 covered maybe we could just take the other 65 mins off? Seems to work for Roger Wilson

Now you're thinking like an Ulster coach

Oh I just realised I can't possibly play for Ulster cos I can ruck and that's not allowed

Yeah I'm great at rucking. Oh no wait, I didn't mean rucking I meant something else. No, I can't actually ruck.

You can't ruck? Surely that means you should be playing back row for us not centre

With me not being able to ruck and getting exhausted within a few minutes of the game starting, I'd say Roger Wilson better watch his back!

I find it amazing that we have no one betetr than Wilson to play No 8, there has to be someone in the academy or somewhere. What happened to Lorcan Dow he was very promising?

I'm available. 5"10 15 stone. A little short maybe but I feel I have the power game. But seriously lacking in stamina. And youth

Actually what has happened to dow ? And didn't we have a young lad play a few games end of last season at 8? Or was that dow?