Ulster 2016/2017

First topic message reminder :

The build up to Ulsters gloriously successful 2016/2017 campaign starts here!

Allow summer optimism to get the better of you or discuss why we are in crisis right here on this thread- before weary resignation over the quality of forwards we have sinks in once again.

Don Alfonso wrote:Heard a bit about what's alleged to have happened, and more about the wider private lives of some young Ulster players. I'd already heard a number of things earlier in the year.

I am a very liberal atheist, but I do wonder how God-fearing Christian players such as Pienaar, Trimble, Marshall, Piutau, Coetzee, Ludik, Herbst etcetera view the way these guys live their lives, and what they believe happened.

And before anyone lectures me on Christians not judging anyone, when you are in a team with a mate and think they're messing up and making repeated mistakes in their personal lives, would you not talk to them about it? I'm sure everyone is horrified by these accusations, but there are some people who are unsurprised that this sort of thing (the accusations) has eventually happened.

Long story short, I would be unsurprised to see us disintegrate this year.

You seem to have heard a lot, Don, if that's the assessment of the rest of the year ahead.
Christians probably have a tough route to take in the present world. They can't be seen to lecture people (non-Christians especially) on the 'errors' of their chosen paths in life or they are just labelled as...well, interfering Christians. There has been a few things over the years and indeed this year (Munster had supposed issues a while back - New Zealand had their issues recently). Everyone though, in the end, is responsible for their own personal morality and as long as there is no abuse or injury inflicted anywhere then even if you frown at the way some people might lead their lives, what can you do? You don't own them so you look for the parts of them that you can like and work with.
There are people that I've worked with in the past and by the way they talked about their weekends and the slices I extracted from their private life habits, I've come to the conclusion that I wouldn't enjoy being with them on a social level - but you find a way to find the parts of them to respect and work constructively with.

Just a fear, really, rather than a level-headed prediction, Fly.

And I don't have any particular in with the squad, to be clear.

I was a young fella once, and I wasn't always the good guy in the white hat, I'll be honest. I'm aware I'm coming across as Judgey McJudgerson - that's not me. I'm in no position to disapprove of anything anyone else does in private, nor would I want to. And if everyone's having a good time, knock yourselves out.

But I don't expect this to play out well.

Don Alfonso wrote:Just a fear, really, rather than a level-headed prediction, Fly.

And I don't have any particular in with the squad, to be clear.

I was a young fella once, and I wasn't always the good guy in the white hat, I'll be honest. I'm aware I'm coming across as Judgey McJudgerson - that's not me. I'm in no position to disapprove of anything anyone else does in private, nor would I want to. And if everyone's having a good time, knock yourselves out.

But I don't expect this to play out well.

Oh I know Don.  My references to 'You' was just rhetorical.

Don Alfonso wrote:Heard a bit about what's alleged to have happened, and more about the wider private lives of some young Ulster players. I'd already heard a number of things earlier in the year.

I am a very liberal atheist, but I do wonder how God-fearing Christian players such as Pienaar, Trimble, Marshall, Piutau, Coetzee, Ludik, Herbst etcetera view the way these guys live their lives, and what they believe happened.

And before anyone lectures me on Christians not judging anyone, when you are in a team with a mate and think they're messing up and making repeated mistakes in their personal lives, would you not talk to them about it? I'm sure everyone is horrified by these accusations, but there are some people who are unsurprised that this sort of thing (the accusations) has eventually happened.

Long story short, I would be unsurprised to see us disintegrate this year.

I understand what you are saying - I'm just not sure what you expect the Christian players to do in this situation. They may well have spoken to the players. I have no idea whether they have or haven't. I would like to think that they (along with the rest of the team) are against this sort of behaviour. Aren't they also working from the assumption that these are allegations and the players are innocent until proven guilty?

Bear in mind that I have absolutely no idea about these allegations and that it was a shock for me when it was on the news.

Don Alfonso wrote:Heard a bit about what's alleged to have happened, and more about the wider private lives of some young Ulster players. I'd already heard a number of things earlier in the year.

I am a very liberal atheist, but I do wonder how God-fearing Christian players such as Pienaar, Trimble, Marshall, Piutau, Coetzee, Ludik, Herbst etcetera view the way these guys live their lives, and what they believe happened.

And before anyone lectures me on Christians not judging anyone, when you are in a team with a mate and think they're messing up and making repeated mistakes in their personal lives, would you not talk to them about it? I'm sure everyone is horrified by these accusations, but there are some people who are unsurprised that this sort of thing (the accusations) has eventually happened.

Long story short, I would be unsurprised to see us disintegrate this year.

This is the height of hypocrisy Don. As an atheist you don't believe in Christianity yet point the finger at those who do to be the moral enforcers for the team. Why should they be any more accountable than anyone else?
Maybe (say) Pienaar is preaching everyday to these guys and they are ignoring him, maybe they are listening and otherwise would be far worse -  that's the thing about morality, it's personal choice.

As a christian, I would suggest that the liklihood is that the christians in the team, are carrying on being as friendly and chatty as ever. I don't know what christians you have come across in your lives (and the ones who ring into Nolan are abnormal), but I have never, nor have I witnessed other believers doing any preaching or chastising in the work place.

If anything, I would suggest that players like Ruan, would be prompted by their faith to get MORE friendly with Jackson and Olding, and their goal would be to make sure they know they are NOT judged or shamed or condemned.

Any christian who has a level head, and actually follows Christ's example, will come along side guys who have got in trouble through bad life choices, not shun them. For any of you unfamiliar with scripture, I'd like to share one story from Jesus' life. He came across the regligious men of the area readying themselves to stone a woman for adultery. He said to them all 'So, who is first to throw a stone, and can you claim to be completely sinless?'. None of the men could admit to being free of sin themselves, and the crowd dispersed. Jesus turned to the women and said 'it looks like nobody has condemned you, and neither do I - go and sin no more'

OK, so I'm not saying that because I'm attempting an effort of outreach, I just wanted to debunk the myth that christians are condemners. But understandably, the radio shows and political parties seem to be hotbeds for the religious fanatics who have a twisted version of our faith, and they sadly paint our faith and lifestyle in the completely wrong way.

Back to the issue - I think this is not so much about morality really. Most fans are not naive about what goes on. That said, we see a lack of control and respectability off the pitch as significant because we all want to admire our players. A lot of us have kids who we want to be able to admire the players. It just leaves a bad taste at the end of the day. We will still cheer for any player who will perform well, but we may not be so quick to offer them cult/hero status, and may be hesitant with our kids looking up to them.

The Great Aukster wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Heard a bit about what's alleged to have happened, and more about the wider private lives of some young Ulster players. I'd already heard a number of things earlier in the year.

I am a very liberal atheist, but I do wonder how God-fearing Christian players such as Pienaar, Trimble, Marshall, Piutau, Coetzee, Ludik, Herbst etcetera view the way these guys live their lives, and what they believe happened.

And before anyone lectures me on Christians not judging anyone, when you are in a team with a mate and think they're messing up and making repeated mistakes in their personal lives, would you not talk to them about it? I'm sure everyone is horrified by these accusations, but there are some people who are unsurprised that this sort of thing (the accusations) has eventually happened.

Long story short, I would be unsurprised to see us disintegrate this year.

This is the height of hypocrisy Don. As an atheist you don't believe in Christianity yet point the finger at those who do to be the moral enforcers for the team. Why should they be any more accountable than anyone else?
Maybe (say) Pienaar is preaching everyday to these guys and they are ignoring him, maybe they are listening and otherwise would be far worse -  that's the thing about morality, it's personal choice.

What's hypocritical? Where am I pointing the finger? There's no "shoulds" or "shouldn'ts" there. I think that everyone is in a difficult position here. I went out of my way to refer to Christian players as talking to the others in the context of being mates. Preach is your word, my friend, not mine.

Put it this way - as a liberal, non-judgemental atheist, I would have had a word with the lads.

Don Alfonso wrote:Put it this way - as a liberal, non-judgemental atheist, I would have had a word with the lads.

Are you sure they haven't?

They quite possibly did. I'd imagine so.

And now here we are, waiting to see what the prosecution service makes of it all.

It's a bloody mess. As happy as I am with the national team and events in Chicago, all of this is a bloody mess... Carberry should keep Jackson off the Ireland bench until we know what is going on. Looked to the manor born when he came off the bench

Don Alfonso wrote:Put it this way - as a liberal, non-judgemental atheist, I would have had a word with the lads.

Or to put it another way for someone who is non-judgemental - you've already judged where you think Ulster's season is going based on hearsay and specifically highlighted the 'christian' section of the squad as being the ones who should have had a word with the lads. Saying you are non-judgemental and then judging without evidence is what is commonly called hypocrisy.

Ahh ffs. Get off his back. Do you not see the irony of being very judgmental towards someone for claiming they are non-judgmental

Alright - let me be clear.

I'm not blaming the Christian segment of the team. My sympathies lie with them (and others) because the team is under a great deal of duress. That is precisely what I was trying to say. That's all.

I'd almost forgotten that shambles on Friday night after the events in Chicago. As Notch said the whole thing is a bloody mess. There's something very, very wrong with this Ulster squad and I'm not sure where to point. My gut feeling points at Clarke. Our forwards are shameful right now and the backs only get to see any regular ball in training. There's changes needed and they're needed now before we slide any further downhill.

Don Alfonso wrote:Just a fear, really, rather than a level-headed prediction, Fly.

And I don't have any particular in with the squad, to be clear.

I was a young fella once, and I wasn't always the good guy in the white hat, I'll be honest. I'm aware I'm coming across as Judgey McJudgerson - that's not me. I'm in no position to disapprove of anything anyone else does in private, nor would I want to. And if everyone's having a good time, knock yourselves out.

But I don't expect this to play out well.

I am not well up in legal stuff, but how long should it take for the accusations to come to a head. Given they were originally questioned in June

I'm going to leave it there, to be honest. Don't know about the legal processes.

In other news, I see Les is "baffled" by why we are so poor at the moment. Bodes well.

Don Alfonso wrote:
Long story short, I would be unsurprised to see us disintegrate this year.

Based on Friday nights showing, if Jackson is out for a prolonged period you are spot on.

With Pienaar off next season we may as well get the disintegration out of the way a year early.

The utterly galling thing about Friday was that the team genuinely didn't look like they knew what to do with the ball. As if there was no plan. Shovel, shovel, shovel along the backline.

I've been a strong critic of Clarke, but I'm starting to wonder a bit about Kiss himself.

Having said that, Connacht were poor for the first two season under Lam.

I just desperately want to see new, hungry blood against Zebre. No better time than a home game against them.

The squad has been badly disrupted of late. The Irish players had filtered back in for a moment only to disappear again to international duty. The injury list was looking bad enough but has slowly but surely deepened. We have key players out all over the place and that added to Kiss' squad rotation has led to a sever lack of consistency this season. If we had our first or even second team out on Friday I believe things would be different. The whole set up's a shambles at the minute and it shows very much on the pitch. There's nothing like a run of victories for confidence and performances to flourish. A run of losses mirrors than and the Ulster players don't seem to trust themselves let alone each other. I hope we witness a turn around in fortunes before it's too late to salvage something from the season.

Don Alfonso wrote:The utterly galling thing about Friday was that the team genuinely didn't look like they knew what to do with the ball. As if there was no plan. Shovel, shovel, shovel along the backline.

I've been a strong critic of Clarke, but I'm starting to wonder a bit about Kiss himself.

Having said that, Connacht were poor for the first two season under Lam.

I just desperately want to see new, hungry blood against Zebre. No better time than a home game against them.

Like you, I'd say it's a little early to tell but when Kiss went up North I questioned was it a good move and hinted that it might finally unearth the real weak point in the Irish coaching set-up that had plagued us since Kidney's time. I always was careful to say Kidney was known not to be a coaching coach so not all the blame for the shoddy game plans could be laid at his doorstep.
I had reservations about Kiss but actually thought I was wrong when the Ulster boys showed some real spark tail end of last season. Jury is out again.

Don Alfonso wrote:I'm going to leave it there, to be honest. Don't know about the legal processes.

In other news, I see Les is "baffled" by why we are so poor at the moment. Bodes well.

Exactly. At least he's progressed from blaming the players to being baffled. Hopefully the next step will be acknowledging that the fault may rest with the coaching.

And Barakat's away next month.

What I wouldn't give for two seasons with the same coaches.

I see Andy Robinson's been fired. Wonder if he would fancy Clarke's job? Step down after being DoR at Bristol, I suppose.

Don Alfonso wrote:
In other news, I see Les is "baffled" by why we are so poor at the moment. Bodes well.

Well not been able to win our lineouts, tackle or pass the ball is probably a good place to start.

Go on. Ring Eddie O. He's ready to reconquer the world via Belfast.

I wouldn't say no to Eddie O

Don Alfonso wrote:And Barakat's away next month.

What I wouldn't give for two seasons with the same coaches.

I see Andy Robinson's been fired. Wonder if he would fancy Clarke's job? Step down after being DoR at Bristol, I suppose.

I'm happy Barakat's away. I've seen nothing to suggest he is a positive influence on Ulster.

We really do need a settled coaching side though, but it has to be coaches that can deliver.

Don Alfonso wrote:And Barakat's away next month.

What I wouldn't give for two seasons with the same coaches.

I see Andy Robinson's been fired. Wonder if he would fancy Clarke's job? Step down after being DoR at Bristol, I suppose.

Haag has left the England under 20s (or is rumoured to be doing shortly I've lost track). He's a quality coach and if you're poaching around in England a better option than Robinson.

Is he any good? Why is he away - I see it's his decision rather than theirs.

A couple of years ago, Muller was our de facto forwards coach, and I would kill to have him back officially in that capacity. Is McLaughlin supposed to be involved in some way to ameliorate Barakat's leaving?

In other news Angus Lloyd has joined Munster in a short term loan deal according to UR official twitter

I can't help but continue to come back to the Anscombe saga. From the little I've heard on here, he was shifted on for being less than professional in his personal life when out and about. If Don is to be believe, we have similar or worse going on with the players themselves.
I still don't buy it. I was pretty annoyed at the mess we were left in last year under Doak. I was willing to forgive if Kiss proved to be worth the wait. And here we are, we are still blaming Clarke, Doak, even Barakat is getting it now.
When does it become justifiable to point the blame squarely at Logan himself.
I personally would take Anscombe back in a heartbeat.

And you know... Logan might like to think of himself as the 'man with the plan', but I sincerely hope we are not going to sacrifice two more seasons of under par coaching simply because the dream is Muller and Pienaar and they aren't ready to join us yet...

clivemcl wrote:I can't help but continue to come back to the Anscombe saga. From the little I've heard on here, he was shifted on for being less than professional in his personal life when out and about. If Don is to be believe, we have similar or worse going on with the players themselves.
I still don't buy it. I was pretty annoyed at the mess we were left in last year under Doak. I was willing to forgive if Kiss proved to be worth the wait. And here we are, we are still blaming Clarke, Doak, even Barakat is getting it now.
When does it become justifiable to point the blame squarely at Logan himself.
I personally would take Anscombe back in a heartbeat.

And you know... Logan might like to think of himself as the 'man with the plan', but I sincerely hope we are not going to sacrifice two more seasons of under par coaching simply because the dream is Muller  and Pienaar and they aren't ready to join us yet...

Logan has been incredibly successful in the job he was/is tasked to do. I would say he made a huge error in getting rid of Anscombe though. I'm not sure how that came about. Logan is an employee of the IRFU, and I would have to think he needed IRFU permission before dumping Anscombe. It was a mess, and perhaps the real failure was not curbing Anscombes style of man management, and his antics when out for a drink. Again, maybe that's something that can be pinned on Logan.

Was it not Humphreys who got rid of Anscombe?

Logan is a businessman, and our financial and organisational position is excellent. What we need is a rugby brain in there. Glasgow are replacing Townsend with Dave Rennie. There are no guarantees, but I’d be pretty chuffed if Rennie was coming our way.

Word was that Cheika applied to come to Ulster after he left Leinster (after giving a big speech about how he’d never want to go to another province because he had fallen so in love with Leinster etc). Humphreys said no because Cheika was adamant about wanting to bring in his own coaching team, and Anscombe was prepared to go with who we had. Cheika turned Leinster from a team with formidable backs talent into a grizzled, hard-nosed outfit who won their first HEC under his watch. Can you think of a province with a similar talent base that could do with a similar shake-up?

I think we need a cult leader in, basically to give us a new mentality. I’m fed up with us mentally not turning up or falling at the final hurdle. Or indeed, in a final. Against Leinster, usually.

Don Alfonso wrote:Was it not Humphreys who got rid of Anscombe?

Logan is a businessman, and our financial and organisational position is excellent. What we need is a rugby brain in there. Glasgow are replacing Townsend with Dave Rennie. There are no guarantees, but I’d be pretty chuffed if Rennie was coming our way.

Word was that Cheika applied to come to Ulster after he left Leinster (after giving a big speech about how he’d never want to go to another province because he had fallen so in love with Leinster etc). Humphreys said no because Cheika was adamant about wanting to bring in his own coaching team, and Anscombe was prepared to go with who we had. Cheika turned Leinster from a team with formidable backs talent into a grizzled, hard-nosed outfit who won their first HEC under his watch. Can you think of a province with a similar talent base that could do with a similar shake-up?

I think we need a cult leader in, basically to give us a new mentality. I’m fed up with us mentally not turning up or falling at the final hurdle. Or indeed, in a final. Against Leinster, usually.

No, it wasn't Humpreys. Humph arranged the one year extension to Anscombes contract. It was after Humphs departure than Anscombe was sacked.

It's alleged that it was player power that got shot of Anscombe, but I suspect that it was really an Old Boys network that put the dagger in, and it's possible that some of Ulsters senior players are part of that Old Boys network, even if they haven't retired.

We need someone with a bit of grit. Someone who can instill a killer instinct mentality into the culture. Not just for certain games, but every game is a must win. Not something that relies on an individual to whip up every game, but something that is part of the group phyche.

When Anscombe could only get a one year extension it was rumoured he made no secret of his desire to seek alternative employment. It was particularly ironic then that Walkinshaw ignored his CV and head hunted Humphreys instead.

Johann Muller went to UR management after Humphreys' departure and explained the relationship between Anscombe and the team. Muller felt since he was leaving anyway he could objectively voice the strength of feeling from the dressing room. That may or may not have had an effect on the decision not to retain Anscombe.

Ulster's success under MA had more to do with having a pack (coached by Muller) that could compete at the highest level than any enlightened coaching from Mark - he was the one that insisted Marshall should be a crash ball 12 and thought McComish was on a par with McCaw. What would Kiss give to have Court, Afoa, Muller and Williams as an experienced spine to the team, with Best, Tuohy, Henry, Herring, Black and Wilson all less injury prone and three/four years younger, then throw in a young Henderson, a carefully managed Ferris, and a prospect like Sean Doyle.
Ulster's current problems lie first, second and third in the pack and until they address those they won't be able to finish the fancy line breaks that gain 50m but are stopped just short of the line.

The Great Aukster wrote:When Anscombe could only get a one year extension it was rumoured he made no secret of his desire to seek alternative employment. It was particularly ironic then that Walkinshaw ignored his CV and head hunted Humphreys instead.

Johann Muller went to UR management after Humphreys' departure and explained the relationship between Anscombe and the team. Muller felt since he was leaving anyway he could objectively voice the strength of feeling from the dressing room. That may or may not have had an effect on the decision not to retain Anscombe.

Ulster's success under MA had more to do with having a pack (coached by Muller) that could compete at the highest level than any enlightened coaching from Mark - he was the one that insisted Marshall should be a crash ball 12 and thought McComish was on a par with McCaw. What would Kiss give to have Court, Afoa, Muller and Williams as an experienced spine to the team, with Best, Tuohy, Henry, Herring, Black and Wilson all less injury prone and three/four years younger, then throw in a young Henderson, a carefully managed Ferris, and a prospect like Sean Doyle.
Ulster's current problems lie first, second and third in the pack and until they address those they won't be able to finish the fancy line breaks that gain 50m but are stopped just short of the line.

Wilson wasn't exactly a powerhouse even then, Afoa's mind was elsewhere (most often attached to his body somewhere in NewZealand), and Ferris was out with long term injury. I agree the pack was stronger than it is now though, but I would say most of that was down to Muller's coaching, and leadership.

I know the history, along with the rumours, but it was folly to get rid of him at that time. Sure, there was a lot of bitching about Anscombe, but it can't be denied that we were much more successful with him at the helm than without him (remember the days when we would qualify out of our group?). The problems we have are much deeper than losing a few players. There was a clear Plan A, and a clear Plan B. What we have now is a clear confusion....

You can have all the talent in a side and still play horrible rugby. You can have a side not so blessed with talent and achieve big things. It's about getting all the parts moving as one that's key.

The backline has caught a lot of slack this past few weeks. To be fair though, we've had no consistency in selection (mostly forced), and combinations have been switched again and again. But am I the only one who remembers our backs showing some great promise at the beginning of the season? We were talking about how there were great signs, and we just needed polished up a tad.
Since then, we seem to have imploded and seem to be trying nothing.
Is it a case that only the main 7/8 backs in contention know the moves etc... and when we are forced to play fringe players, or guys out of position, do the coaches say 'forget the difficult fancy stuff - just go out and try not to lose!' ?
The forwards are certainly not the best, but we aren't any worse off in the pack than we were at the season start (in fact we are better off probably with players returning from injury.
For me, our backs were more than capable of splitting defences wide open a month or two ago, and now we seem impotent. For me, the one thing I see this past few weeks that's driving me mad more than anything is some seriously poor passing - and even from the players who ought to be WAY better.
We are going to struggle to unlock defences if players are taking balls around their feet, behind their shoulders and above their heads...

The Great Aukster wrote:
Ulster's current problems lie first, second and third in the pack and until they address those they won't be able to finish the fancy line breaks that gain 50m but are stopped just short of the line.

The pack is a problem but it extends beyond that. The defence against Edinburgh was a shambles.

The fancy line breaks are few and far between this season - without Williams, McCloskey and a fit Henderson everything is lateral and predictable in attack - against Edinburgh we were going backwards frequently.

Halfback continues to be a problem, beyond Pienaar, Jackson and Paul Marshall the options aren't even B&I cup standard.

Recruitment has been poor - Piatau is 2 stone overweight and looks more and more disinterested by the game - but the primary issue is the lack of quality in key positions coming through the academy.

All that said the team on the pitch is not performing to the level they should and that has to be blamed on the coaches. The tactics are poor and the skill levels are average, even fitness looks well below standard so there must be something wrong behind the scenes.

Here's something you may not have imagined we would be saying this time a year ago but... we've been badly missing Ludik. I'm not saying it would have changed EVERYTHING had he not been injured. But in fairness, he's one of very few players this season there is very little to criticise him over.

The backline at the weekend had only Pienaar and Piutau (maybe Luke) who would be in my ideal first team backline. If all were fit, I reckon we would play Ludik, McCloskey, Trimble, Jackson, Olding. That's a hefty amount to be missing in any match day, not to mention the knock on effect to having a poorer bench from which to draw.

I think the team has problems, but I'm not sure the focus should be too much on our defeat to Edinburgh when you consider the players we were forced to field, and the fact that Edinburgh were actually pretty good.

Many of Ulsters problems are maybe a decade or more old. The players have the ability but not always the right level of application. Guys like Diack show up for a few games then disappear for longer and don't deliver like they can. There really needs to be a more ruthless culture in terms of recruitment and retention, if you cut one or two lose it may light a fire under the rest.

We are in a tight spot with that though because of the NIQ rules but the three other provinces seem to have mastered it.

In the past we have seen players flogged then not be able to do the job come the big games at the end of the season, the problem is the same if we have to make big gains at the seasons end to make the play offs that the big names are flogged and not able to perform. The rotation worked at the start of the seasons with players easing back in then when players start dropping we struggled.

The biggest issue though is leadership, when Rory is away we do seem to suffer from a lack of it despite there being nearly a whole team who have been captain in recent years. Chris Henry is a guy who seems to be on a similar level to Rory in terms of his ability to push players but too often players are looking and waiting for someone to show them the way or for a spark to ignite them rather than having that fire in the belly and it is inexplicable most of the time.

In regards to Clarke, does anyone think if he was at an AP club he would have lasted as long as he has?
We have an underperforming pack and its been said after so many matches that too often players are going into contact and getting isolated and considering we have a 'collisions' coach that falls under one or both of their remits. Early in the game on Saturday night watching how well Irelands players were being supported one of my first thoughts was how Id love to see Ulster execute a similar game plan and it was there at times last season but not always and seems to have been lost all together this season.

neilthom7 wrote:In other news Angus Lloyd has joined Munster in a short term loan deal according to UR official twitter

Well it's better that his development is stifled by an indigenous player I suppose, all part of the great IRFU diktat.

Pete330v2 wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:In other news Angus Lloyd has joined Munster in a short term loan deal according to UR official twitter

Well it's better that his development is stifled by an indigenous player I suppose, all part of the great IRFU diktat.

Looks like Munster have also added, Te Aihe Toma, so an indigenous player doesn't stifle his development, thats nice of them.

Kingshu wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:In other news Angus Lloyd has joined Munster in a short term loan deal according to UR official twitter

Well it's better that his development is stifled by an indigenous player I suppose, all part of the great IRFU diktat.

Looks like Munster have also added, Te Aihe Toma, so an indigenous player doesn't stifle his development, thats nice of them.

Well it's just as well Ulster aren't having and injury crisis eh?

Is Jeremy Davidson still powering away with Aurillac?

Just after I typed that I went onto t'Other Forum for a nosey... whispers Clarke has gone?

GEOFF?!?!?!?!

GEEEEEEEOOOOFF?!?!?!?!??!?!

New contracts for Pete Browne and Andy Warwick.

"Warwick has penned a three-year extension, which will keep him at Kingspan Stadium until 2020, while Browne has signed on until at least 2019"

Browne's a decent squad member, hopefully Warwick can become something a bit more.

How frustrated and gutted must Pienaar be seeing his last season chances slip away. And what's more, how hard would it be to watch if Pienaar helps some other club actually win something rather than with us. Not that he wouldn't deserve it himself. On that note, I see Matawala is leaving Bath...

Don Alfonso wrote:Just after I typed that I went onto t'Other Forum for a nosey... whispers Clarke has gone?

GEOFF?!?!?!?!

GEEEEEEEOOOOFF?!?!?!?!??!?!

Seems tongue in cheek. Hopefully I'm wrong, but only if we have a better replacement.

clivemcl wrote:How frustrated and gutted must Pienaar be seeing his last season chances slip away. And what's more, how hard would it be to watch if Pienaar helps some other club actually win something rather than with us. Not that he wouldn't deserve it himself. On that note, I see Matawala is leaving Bath...

Going to Munster.

Wow. Just watched Kiss' interview with the Beeb after the Edinburgh game. The man was absolutely quaking with anger. He was livid.