Ulster 2016/2017

First topic message reminder :

The build up to Ulsters gloriously successful 2016/2017 campaign starts here!

Allow summer optimism to get the better of you or discuss why we are in crisis right here on this thread- before weary resignation over the quality of forwards we have sinks in once again.

Was it just me or was the pass for Clermonts try ridiculously forward

Cracking match

A bit forward maybe.

Great match. this is what european rugby is all about.

seems defence is optional so far

Have to.say after 2 mins thought Ulster were screwed but they have been immense since then, Joe S looks happy in the stand

Ulster really need to deny them a try which would give them both bonus points. Rodney is having a tough time in the scrums.

How important has Chris Henry been. We have missed him an awful lot!

Ulster will be doing well to hang on to the win at this rate. Ah you has had a shocker

The props who have came on have both been awful.

Thank god, I can breathe again

WOW!!
The rollercoaster ride being an Ulster fan. You just can never tell what we're going to do.
Well done both sides for an awesome game of rugby.

Ah You can't scrummage to save his life.

39-32.

That's mad, Ted.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:How important has Chris Henry been. We have missed him an awful lot!

Was Man of the Match for seemed to be at every ruck and trying to turn the ball over at half of them

Barnes was his usual self at the breakdown, probably called Ulster right everytime but few iffy ones he let Clermont away with

Was it just me or was Rory picked up and dropped on his head at a ruck as well?

I was never so glad to see ah you get a yellow card. He was a liability at the scrums.

I was never so glad to see ah you get a yellow card. He was a liability at the scrums.

I picked a great game to miss. What the hell happened

Ulster have a decent backline but the pack can't compete in the tight. When Bordeaux realised they had to win the game up front they turned the match around - Clermont almost did the same. They always want to win playing expansive rugby but realised they couldn't so reverted to using their superior forwards to gain territory and from that came their comeback

The Great Aukster wrote:Ulster have a decent backline but the pack can't compete in the tight. When Bordeaux realised they had to win the game up front they turned the match around - Clermont almost did the same. They always want to win playing expansive rugby but realised they couldn't so reverted to using their superior forwards to gain territory and from that came their comeback

Have to disagree, think Clermont got the edge late on by the sheer size of the guys there were bringing on up front but think Ulster have a lot of room for improvement. We gave them extra men out wide too many times and need to be reading those situations better, its the same in attack we are using little plays to break the gain line yet too often we aren't anticipating actually getting through and players are being isolated but it was better than it has been.

When are vDM and AOC due back? If we had one or both back next week Id fancy us to be able to offer a bit more at the set pieces

Ah You was sh1te with Connacht and they were delighted to offload him. Why Ulster thought he was worth signing is beyond belief - jeez you must have somebody up there who is better.

brennomac wrote:Ah You was sh1te with Connacht and they were delighted to offload him.  Why Ulster thought he was worth signing is beyond belief - jeez you must have somebody up there who is better.  

Hes been decent enough so far for Ulster, has been fitter and more mobile and has offered a good option but just looked disinterested today and the card topped it off

How did best go today? His usual self?

Great game, and very good result for us.

Thought a few players played really well, including Best, Henry, Henderson, Marshall and Jackson.

Ah You is getting a hard time from some fans but I think a lot of it is unfair. Ah You has been very good for Ulster, even if he seemed a bit off today. The yellow card was harsh.

Thought the pack really fronted up. Begs the question; why do they go missing in other games?

Great to get the win, but I'm not satisfied. Losing away to Begles will probably still cost us the quarters. A result next week and I might forgive them

Clermont shouldn't have been awarded the first Try. It was off a forward pass.

What a great turn around - a few key stars aligned to make that possible.

Herbst was back to his best and showed what a prospect he is
McCall and Browne both raised their game
Reidy is a better 8 than Wilson
Henry returning was absolutely crucial
McCloskey and Marshall again showed they are our best centre partnership
Ludik was back

Only one player let us down and that was Ah You - he nearly cost us the game

What I am trying to say is that was close to our best starting XV
Given Payne is out for the foreseeable future we need to play
that team with only a couple of tweaks - de Merwe for Diack and Trimble for Bowe and stick with it for the key games
No more tinkering - especially in the backs

What does that say to a back line of Gilroy, Olding, Cave, Bowe ?
It says tough you currently aren't in the starting XV you are going to have to wait your chance and grab it when it comes along

Some good news and some bad

Good - Ulster have not given up on Pienaer and are taking action, possibly legal

Bad - There could be some Poopie to hit the fan over something which I just cant say at the moment

geoff999rugby wrote:Some good news and some bad

Good - Ulster have not given up on Pienaer and are taking action, possibly legal

Bad - There could be some Poopie to hit the fan over something which I just cant say at the moment

As much of a disgrace as the Pienaar situation is, is it wise to bite the hand that feeds?

As for the second...I certainly hope that isn't related to Paddy and Stu.

Ah Geoff, why you have to go ruin my weekend!
It's either that Jackson is in trouble or that he is leaving. Both would be horrible for us. He really is shaping up to be and Ulster great.

Piutau did of course get the try and show skill at times, but is anyone else feeling that he perhaps backs himself a bit too often rather than giving the right pass??

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Some good news and some bad

Good - Ulster have not given up on Pienaer and are taking action, possibly legal

Bad - There could be some Poopie to hit the fan over something which I just cant say at the moment

As much of a disgrace as the Pienaar situation is, is it wise to bite the hand that feeds?

As for the second...I certainly hope that isn't related to Paddy and Stu.

I think the feeling is we have a lot of sympathy around the rugby world and indeed in Ireland.
Also of the 4 provinces are financial support is the lowest - only 15% of income
There are planned to be no high profile signings next year.
We can trim our squad by half a dozen players no problem - some dead wood there.
As I have indicated the likes of Lutton,, Windsor, Wilson, Murphy plus de Merwe to go.
Plus if, as they want to, Leinster are allowed to re sign Nacewa there will be fully justified accusations of bias.
Also as I mentioned before we have said that a Project 8 apart we are ok signing no other NIQ player for next year if Pienaer stays, plus we will not replace Piatau when he goes.
That is a hell of a commitment to a nearly exclusive IQ squad for 18-19

geoff999rugby wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Some good news and some bad

Good - Ulster have not given up on Pienaer and are taking action, possibly legal

Bad - There could be some Poopie to hit the fan over something which I just cant say at the moment

As much of a disgrace as the Pienaar situation is, is it wise to bite the hand that feeds?

As for the second...I certainly hope that isn't related to Paddy and Stu.

I think the feeling is we have a lot of sympathy around the rugby world and indeed in Ireland.
Also of the 4 provinces are financial support is the lowest - only 15% of income
There are planned to be no high profile signings next year.
We can trim our squad by half a dozen players no problem - some dead wood there.
As I have indicated the likes of Lutton,, Windsor, Wilson, Murphy plus de Merwe to go.
Plus if, as they want to, Leinster are allowed to re sign Nacewa there will be fully justified accusations of bias.
Also as I mentioned before we have said that a Project 8 apart we are ok signing no other NIQ player for next year if Pienaer stays, plus we will not replace Piatau when he goes.
That is a hell of a commitment to a nearly exclusive IQ squad for 18-19

That 15% figure doesn't sound correct to me but leaving that aside, have they forgotten about all the money the IRFU pumped into ulster when Ulster were a mess? That was most likely the reason they could sign Pienaar in the first place.


And there's no bias about Leinster signing Nacewa. Leinster produce their own players and supply the Ireland team with most players. I'm not a Leinster fan btw. Leinster were blocked from signing a new 10 in the summer and a new 7 last summer.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Some good news and some bad

Good - Ulster have not given up on Pienaer and are taking action, possibly legal

Bad - There could be some Poopie to hit the fan over something which I just cant say at the moment

As much of a disgrace as the Pienaar situation is, is it wise to bite the hand that feeds?

As for the second...I certainly hope that isn't related to Paddy and Stu.

I don't know, but think it's probably about Pienaar. Hope so, as I hope that Ulster Rugby give the two fingered salute to the IRFU.

Geoff is doing it again!  Is that lad a tabloid writer?  He gets your taste buds juiced up and then keeps saying with a tap on his nose... 'But that's for a later edition.  Can't say yet, but this looks massive!!!!!'

Just tell us or don't tell us, Geoff - but stop torturing us!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have never accepted the whole Pienaar saga so it's nice to hear there still a chance of a u-turn. It's not a case of biting the hand that feeds you if it's simply a request for some common, rational sense.

profitius wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Some good news and some bad

Good - Ulster have not given up on Pienaer and are taking action, possibly legal

Bad - There could be some Poopie to hit the fan over something which I just cant say at the moment

As much of a disgrace as the Pienaar situation is, is it wise to bite the hand that feeds?

As for the second...I certainly hope that isn't related to Paddy and Stu.

I think the feeling is we have a lot of sympathy around the rugby world and indeed in Ireland.
Also of the 4 provinces are financial support is the lowest - only 15% of income
There are planned to be no high profile signings next year.
We can trim our squad by half a dozen players no problem - some dead wood there.
As I have indicated the likes of Lutton,, Windsor, Wilson, Murphy plus de Merwe to go.
Plus if, as they want to, Leinster are allowed to re sign Nacewa there will be fully justified accusations of bias.
Also as I mentioned before we have said that a Project 8 apart we are ok signing no other NIQ player for next year if Pienaer stays, plus we will not replace Piatau when he goes.
That is a hell of a commitment to a nearly exclusive IQ squad for 18-19

That 15% figure doesn't sound correct to me but leaving that aside, have they forgotten about all the money the IRFU pumped into ulster when Ulster were a mess? That was most likely the reason they could sign Pienaar in the first place.


And there's no bias about Leinster signing Nacewa. Leinster produce their own players and supply the Ireland team with most players. I'm not a Leinster fan btw. Leinster were blocked from signing a new 10 in the summer and a new 7 last summer.

The 15% figure comes from Shane Logans own mouth.
It was 50% 10 years ago.

IRFU want Pienaer to go so that Irish talent is not blocked.
Nacewa has been at Leinster for more years than Pienaer has been at Ulster
Leinster have 2 NIQ back three players and real talent - Conway and Kelleher has had to leave as a consequence
A case can easily be made that Nacewa has blocked IQ players at Leinster, Pienaer by contrast has blocked nobody because every IQ SH we have had has been inadequate
Nobody remotely close to help Ireland.
It is not about the fact Leinster have produced more players for Ireland, they have, but maximizing the chance of real Irish talent getting a chance.
Pienaer getting another 2 years at Ulster will block nobody currently at Ulster and that is the point
Leinster signing a NIQ 7 or a 10 would be a terrible decision.
They have Carbery and a significant set of backrowers who are IQ and good enough (Heaslip, SOB, de Flier, Leavy, Ruddock, Murphy) and none should be blocked.
If we truly want to reduce the number of NIQ player we need to have players moving around provinces.

However that doesn't work because nobody of note is prepared to leave Leinster second XV to play in Ulsters first XV which forces us doen the NIQ route to stay competitive.

Now you could say Ulster problem for not producing more IQ talent - a fair point.
If we are to do that then someone needs to break the strangle hold of schools here who mismanage emerging talent to support the 'oldest rugby competition' (its actually the second oldest).
To be frankly the Schools Cup is an anchor around our necks - I'd love it to be ditched but it never will.

The other thing is the IRFU needs to stop forcing us to employ IQ coaches when they are not up tothejob.
If we had coaches who knew what they were doing maybe some of the talent would develop better.

geoff999rugby wrote:
Leinster have 2 NIQ back three players and real talent - Conway and Kelleher has had to leave as a consequence
If we truly want to reduce the number of NIQ player we need to have players moving around provinces.

However that doesn't work because nobody of note is prepared to leave Leinster second XV to play in Ulsters first XV which forces us doen the NIQ route to stay competitive.

Are Ulster actively looking for the 'excess' players from other Provinces?  Maybe they're too proud to put in a request? - maybe that's linked into this idea that you bring up about the idea of producing your own and the old ways currently in situ that stall that process.  
I've read about the School's Cup before on these pages recently, and at the time one Ulster poster kind of rubbished the idea that the School's Cup would be sacrificed to better establish a pool of young players in the Province.  History and tradition were getting in the way - 'you can't end history just like that', being the heavy hint.
So maybe Ulster are shooting themselves in the foot, as you suggest.  And if they are, then maybe the IRFU aren't fully the bad guys they are increasingly being painted as in Ulster.  The IRFU are taking leaps into the future to try to keep relevant in this dog-eat-dog professional world and maybe Ulster should try to help out by having a look at that School's Cup?
But if money is money, and if Ulster are readily offering it, then why would Conway and Kelleher leave Leinster but still stay in Ireland with other Provinces?

Ulster are hardly in the business of strictly producing our own, Fly. Certainly not as much as we would like to. I doubt very much that we are refusing to consider players from other Provinces. Not while we are happy to take their rejects - O'Connor, for example. And not while we are happy to supply some of our home-grown to other Provinces.

Ulster Rugby can't force the hand of the Schools Cup. It simply doesn't have that power.

The IRFU are very much the bad guys in this. The issue isn't with having to stick with the foreign player quota, or even that we are prevented from filling certain positions. The issue is the complete lack of common sense in the IRFU blocking Pienaars extension. It makes no sense and only hurts the Province. No benefit to us, and none to the IRFU.

Everything I say is fact

Christ, you guys are certainly upping Pienaars asking price if you can encourage the IRFU to relent.  Every path in a discussion leads back to this one player.

"It's okay Ruan!!!!  We got them bollixes off your back! Feckin' NooseForYa crumbled under pressure!  You can stay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .................................Ruan?  - Ruan, are you there?"

"Yeah, I'm still here.  - Just thinking....... ; you guys have proven you want me pretty badly, right?.................. so let's talk about how bad................."

SecretFly wrote:Christ, you guys are certainly upping Pienaars asking price if you can encourage the IRFU to relent.  Every path in a discussion leads back to this one player.

"It's okay Ruan!!!!  We got them bollixes off your back!  Feckin' NooseForYa crumbled under pressure!  You can stay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .................................Ruan?  - Ruan, are you there?"

"Yeah, I'm still here.  - Just thinking....... ; you guys have proven you want me pretty badly, right?.................. so let's talk about how bad................."

"NooseForYa" I like that one, Fly. I will keep it for future reference and claim it as my own

Ruan wont be pushing for a big pay hike. Ruan isn't greedy

Are Ulster actively looking for Southern nines? Well, we have Angus Lloyd and Dave Shanahan in the squad at the moment. So I'd say yes. We have also had Ian Porter (twice), Michael Heaney and, I think, Blane Whatsisname kicking about. Not one if that five is better than Paul Marshall (currently). I think we had Cillian Willis behind Boss, but it may have been Pienaar too

Geoff is right - backrowers from Leinster would rather be part of Leinster seconds than Ulster firsts. Their frustrated backs have no problem filling the Connacht and Munster backlines. But we don't need backs.

Who was the last Southern player already on a professional contract who came North? There seems to be much more willingness to move around the three Southern provinces.

Sorry, havnt read the last few bright posts, but I was enjoying the idea of Marion or Blade...

If Pienaar was kept on AND we got Blade in with a fantastic mentor for a few years then brilliant!

Keeping Pienaar AND signing Marion seems wasteful of Marmion's talent.

But IF we keep Pienaar for two years and in so doing forfeit either Blade or Marmion and ultimately are left with Shanahan - then that would be an AWFUL decision in the long term regardless if what Pienaar might offer in the short term.

clivemcl wrote:Sorry, havnt read the last few bright posts, but I was enjoying the idea of Marion or Blade...

If Pienaar was kept on AND we got Blade in with a fantastic mentor for a few years then brilliant!

Keeping Pienaar AND signing Marion seems wasteful of Marmion's talent.

But IF we keep Pienaar for two years and in so doing forfeit either Blade or Marmion and ultimately are left with Shanahan - then that would be an AWFUL decision in the long term regardless if what Pienaar might offer in the short term.

If it's true that UR are digging their heels in and defying the IRFU, then I would have to think that neither Marmion or Blade are coming North. If Blade was to come North and we get to keep Pienaar as a player, then fantastic. Although I would be happy having Pienaar as coach with one of Marmion or Blade joining us.

Ulster have offered position a number of Leinster players in the past including Conway and a number of backrowers they all said no even they the net result would have been more game time.
The reality is players do not want to come north even when encouraged to do so by the IRFU - as far as we are concerned the system simply doesn't work.
However players, who weren't Ulstermen in the first place have come north.
I am not including here players who were dropped or not considered by their home province such as AOC as that is a slightly different situation.

As others have said Ulster rugby is unable to force the hand re the Schools Cup - the IRFU know that.

I mean no disrespect to Nacewa who has been a great servant of Leinster but I do have to ask does anyone know if he will stay in Ireland after his rugby career is over. As we know Pienaer want to become a permanent resident and wants to coach at Ulster.

I know residency is not something related to rugby but in terms of treating players fairly I do think it should be a factor in the decision making.

Going back to money the local political set up put millions of pounds into improving Ravenhill, an IRFU property, so money has, effectively, flowed both ways in recent years.

I'd be interested to hear how happy Ulster, the players and the province in general feel about geoff's 'News of the World' teasers about sensitive issues around the squad.

Do they know about his loose mouth?

I certainly wouldn't be happy with someone saying this:

"Bad - There could be some Poopie to hit the fan over something which I just cant say at the moment"

geoff, I know you enjoy your 'I'm close to Ulster and i love to give you the inside gossip' but you've stepped over the line again.

I've emailed Ulster rugby. I await their reply.

Cyril wrote:I'd be interested to hear how happy Ulster, the players and the province in general feel about geoff's 'News of the World' teasers about sensitive issues around the squad.

Do they know about his loose mouth?

I certainly wouldn't be happy with someone saying this:

"Bad - There could be some Poopie to hit the fan over something which I just cant say at the moment"

geoff, I know you enjoy your 'I'm close to Ulster and i love to give you the inside gossip' but you've stepped over the line again.

I've emailed Ulster rugby. I await their reply.

I'm very grateful for geoff's insights, Cyril, however, geoff hasn't told us anything other than something might happen. Others are saying something quite openly which, if true, is massive news.

Three things I can think that it might be, and hoping that's it's one of them, and not the other two. There's rumour of a meeting on Wednesday, although I don't trust the source much.

One thing I have to believe is true; there's a lot going on behind the scenes right now.

Do you think the Russians might be involved somehow?

So people have started emailing Ulster Rugby to check what's said on here? We may as well shut it down now as I'm sure Geoff will. Well done Cyril.

Cyril wrote:I'd be interested to hear how happy Ulster, the players and the province in general feel about geoff's 'News of the World' teasers about sensitive issues around the squad.

Do they know about his loose mouth?

I certainly wouldn't be happy with someone saying this:

"Bad - There could be some Poopie to hit the fan over something which I just cant say at the moment"

geoff, I know you enjoy your 'I'm close to Ulster and i love to give you the inside gossip' but you've stepped over the line again.

I've emailed Ulster rugby. I await their reply.

Quite a schoolboy thing to do, don't you think? Since when did you ever care about Ulster? Seems like a childish exercise of bitterness.

Cyril is one of the biggest wums on these boards
I doubt he has emailed Ulster Rugby.

How would that email even go?

Dear Ulster rugby,

I have read things on a message board from someone claiming to have the inside track at Ulster.

My examples are.....um....ah....um  

Yours Cyril


What has geoff ever said that is particularly sensitive or a new revelation?

rodders wrote:Won't surprise me, I think we'll stuff them.

Told you

Pity about conceding the 2 bonus points but hopefully that will be a shot in the arm for the season.

Henry and Best make a serious difference, as do McCloskey and Henderson with their ball carrying threat, we look a different side when they are available.

With some big players still to come back we should have a strong second half of the season.

Good that they haven't given up on Pienaar. With Munster looking to retain Taute maybe that is something we can use to help our cause too...

Cyril wrote:I'd be interested to hear how happy Ulster, the players and the province in general feel about geoff's 'News of the World' teasers about sensitive issues around the squad.

Do they know about his loose mouth?

I certainly wouldn't be happy with someone saying this:

"Bad - There could be some Poopie to hit the fan over something which I just cant say at the moment"

geoff, I know you enjoy your 'I'm close to Ulster and i love to give you the inside gossip' but you've stepped over the line again.

I've emailed Ulster rugby. I await their reply.

Prat - you could have read the Sunday Times which has reported on a number of problems at Ulster in recent weeks.
It was only after my friend told me of the articles that I posted something here and made enquires
I have since heard something that expands on one of issues which I have yet to get confirmed - it is not me that put issues in the public domain it was the Sunday Times.

The Pienaer row has not been made public but the club have no problem with that being made aware to a wider audience

Have you written to Ulster concerning the reporting in the Sunday Times - it is them that have put many of the issues into the public domain not me.

I only post here something that is in the public domain or something that I feel confident the club would not object to.
For example I know the team a day before it is announced but the club do not want that leaked out so I don't

The club will laugh at your Email and ignore it

One thing I will say though - do not assume geoff is my real name - it is just a label just like most on here