Wales - ????

First topic message reminder :

Where do Wales go from here?

Losing to a 2nd string England in the fashion they have is a shocking result.

I know there is a claim that the ball went forward hit Moriaty and then went back but I personally can't see it. I know I am English but...

The TMO said the information was 'inconclusive'. He could not determine if an offence had occurred so the try was awarded.

As for Biggar he has not been penalised for dissent yet but on current evidence he might do so in the future, and in a much more important game than this one. Better if he can fix this issue now.

Knowsit - a full recording of the sky coverage of the game is available on youtube. It is how I watched it. There is a lot of 'detailed' analysis of the incident in breaks in play in the second half, with all of the Welsh pundits deciding the ball went forward hit Moriaty then bounced back through Cole's legs. As stated I still think its hard to claim definitively that this is what happened, hence what the TMO said and how the Ref responded.

That's ok, at least you're not talking as if you have innate knowledge on the specificity of every little fumble that occurs during a game.

As I said nobody can draw a fair conclusion as nobody can actually see what happens to the ball after coming off Cole (both Cole and Moriarty's bodies are in the way). I can live with it being inconclusive in such a situation. But it gets to me seeing so many people being as unthinking and assumptive as the commentators on the day, when without any real analysis the English ones sprang straight to Cole's defence while the Welsh ones dogmatically sprang to it being a knock on.

I challenge anyone with a convicton to bring up conclusive evidence one way or another.

Knowsit17 wrote:I have yet to see this supposed review. Do you have a replay you can share? Complete with zoom-ins and acute angles to show precisely what direction the ball drifted in? Or is your conclusion that the ball went forwards just biased assumption, as I suspect.

The replays I saw on the day showed nothing decisive whatsoever. They were too far away and too obscure for anyone to draw a fair conclusion. Yet people say whatever they like all the same.

The only people I've seen suggest that the ball went forward are Welsh posters on this board(shock). Even the hugely Welsh biased WOL agreed that the ball went backwards.

If in your mind it went forward, good for you. It didn't, but who cares about what actually happened.

End of the day, it matters little. The try rightly stood and didn't have a major influence on the result of the game.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:I have yet to see this supposed review. Do you have a replay you can share? Complete with zoom-ins and acute angles to show precisely what direction the ball drifted in? Or is your conclusion that the ball went forwards just biased assumption, as I suspect.

The replays I saw on the day showed nothing decisive whatsoever. They were too far away and too obscure for anyone to draw a fair conclusion. Yet people say whatever they like all the same.

The only people I've seen suggest that the ball went forward are Welsh posters on this board(shock). Even the hugely Welsh biased WOL agreed that the ball went backwards.

If in your mind it went forward, good for you. It didn't, but who cares about what actually happened.

End of the day, it matters little. The try rightly stood and didn't have a major influence on the result of the game.

Some excellent discussion going on with regards to the matter - just a shame it had to be drowned out by an ignorant post from Pooly like this one here (there's been several on this thread alone but I'm referring to this quoted one). The guy needs to get into politics with low-level debate like this, he would be such a hit.

Btw - Anyone know why the English keep on criticising Biggar who's yet to kop a ban? Why don't you criticise Hartley? They seem to think it's alright when he uses profanities to describe the officials.

Outstanding comeback Micky. You critisise my point then fail to construct any kind of counter....just go on the offensive for a change.

Hartley was banned and rightly so, he was an idiot. Bigger is a petulant child who constantly throws his toys if things don't go his way. If he keeps behaving this way it'll only be a matter of time before he gets a ban. Surely a genuine rugby fan doesn't think his behaviour is fine?

mikey_dragon wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:I have yet to see this supposed review. Do you have a replay you can share? Complete with zoom-ins and acute angles to show precisely what direction the ball drifted in? Or is your conclusion that the ball went forwards just biased assumption, as I suspect.

The replays I saw on the day showed nothing decisive whatsoever. They were too far away and too obscure for anyone to draw a fair conclusion. Yet people say whatever they like all the same.

The only people I've seen suggest that the ball went forward are Welsh posters on this board(shock). Even the hugely Welsh biased WOL agreed that the ball went backwards.

If in your mind it went forward, good for you. It didn't, but who cares about what actually happened.

End of the day, it matters little. The try rightly stood and didn't have a major influence on the result of the game.

Some excellent discussion going on with regards to the matter - just a shame it had to be drowned out by an ignorant post from Pooly like this one here (there's been several on this thread alone but I'm referring to this quoted one). The guy needs to get into politics with low-level debate like this, he would be such a hit.

Btw - Anyone know why the English keep on criticising Biggar who's yet to kop a ban? Why don't you criticise Hartley? They seem to think it's alright when he uses profanities to describe the officials.

Deary deary me

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Outstanding comeback Micky. You critisise my point then fail to construct any kind of counter....just go on the offensive for a change.

Hartley was banned and rightly so, he was an idiot. Bigger is a petulant child who constantly throws his toys if things don't go his way. If he keeps behaving this way it'll only be a matter of time before he gets a ban. Surely a genuine rugby fan doesn't think his behaviour is fine?

If it's outstanding then why are you crying to the mods about it like a little child? Make an ignorant post, expect that to be called out .
Also, I believe all that needs to be said on the matter has been.

Glad you can acknowledge that about Hartley, but Biggar is nowhere near that leve yet, so sleep easy. I also don't see (yet) where he's contravened any laws? He does need to be careful though.

Keep on topic

Wish people would stop wasting mods time.... Anyway, well said by KnowsIt and LIW.

Mikey - it is not wasting time. Believe it or not people don't tend to enjoy petty bickering and phrases like 'crying to the mods'

mikey_dragon wrote:Wish people would stop wasting mods time.... Anyway, well said by KnowsIt and LIW.

Epic.

Seriously, a third time? RDW, you could have had another cup of coffee by now.

Yes, a 3rd time.

In case you have noticed you are often the common theme in all the petty bickering that ruins threads!

If you don't like being reported then maybe you should stop doing that?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Yes, a 3rd time.

In case you have noticed you are often the common theme in all the petty bickering that ruins threads!

If you don't like being reported then maybe you should stop doing that?

You seem to be suggesting I'm the root of bickering so I disagree - I don't really think that's fair either, mentioning something that isn't wholly true as if you're trying to entice more bickering at me from English posters? And if the moderation was more consistent then you may have a point, but seeing as a certain someone was allowed to get away with his unnecessary comments on homo-sexuals and travellers...

I've been advised to attack the post. I do that and still get reported - maybe certain posters should grow some.

We don't have time to trawl through threads to see 'who started it', so we naturally focus on what has been reported.

If you have a problem with things people are saying then report them.

Ultimately though if everyone just focused on the rugby and stopped all the pettiness none of this would happen!

I apologies for just putting the focus on you just now but it seems like we can't have a Welsh thread that doesn't go downhill rapidly. And often it is the Welsh bickering withthemselves!

RDW_Scotland wrote:We don't have time to trawl through threads to see 'who started it', so we naturally focus on what has been reported.

If you have a problem with things people are saying then report them.

Ultimately though if everyone just focused on the rugby and stopped all the pettiness none of this would happen!

I apologies for just putting the focus on you just now but it seems like we can't have a Welsh thread that doesn't go downhill rapidly.  And often it is the Welsh bickering withthemselves!

Right...well that explains it. I felt this is where the 'moderation' on the old 606 was a huge let down and people were being targeted by it. I don't often feel the need to report, unless I feel there is a theme going on, or something is blatantly racist, insulting, etc.

Yes that's true, the welsh do argue a lot. It's a welsh rugby thing. Were you expecting something different on this thread from Hers... TH? I certainly wasn't but made a contribution on the rugby anyway.

Good to see the England vs Welsh bickering is still alive and well.

Who's got current bragging rights these days?

Biltong wrote:Good to see the England vs Welsh bickering is still alive and well.

Who's got current bragging rights these days?

Depends on how far backwards you look. Weeks, months or since the beginning of time...

Hi Biltong, an apology was made and that's that as far as I'm concerned. You should maybe keep an eye on the targeting of posters though.

Biltong wrote:Good to see the England vs Welsh bickering is still alive and well.

Who's got current bragging rights these days?

(Life of Brian mode)

"Are there any Welsh here today.....?"

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:I have yet to see this supposed review. Do you have a replay you can share? Complete with zoom-ins and acute angles to show precisely what direction the ball drifted in? Or is your conclusion that the ball went forwards just biased assumption, as I suspect.

The replays I saw on the day showed nothing decisive whatsoever. They were too far away and too obscure for anyone to draw a fair conclusion. Yet people say whatever they like all the same.

The only people I've seen suggest that the ball went forward are Welsh posters on this board(shock). Even the hugely Welsh biased WOL agreed that the ball went backwards.

If in your mind it went forward, good for you. It didn't, but who cares about what actually happened.

End of the day, it matters little. The try rightly stood and didn't have a major influence on the result of the game.

You have no definitive proof then. Just the same biased hot air as ever.

P.S. Identify specifically where I said it went forward. If you could read or so much as recognise the concept of impartial debate you'd see I drew no definitive conclusion. It's that thing people call a lack of conclusive evidence.

Knowsit17 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:I have yet to see this supposed review. Do you have a replay you can share? Complete with zoom-ins and acute angles to show precisely what direction the ball drifted in? Or is your conclusion that the ball went forwards just biased assumption, as I suspect.

The replays I saw on the day showed nothing decisive whatsoever. They were too far away and too obscure for anyone to draw a fair conclusion. Yet people say whatever they like all the same.

The only people I've seen suggest that the ball went forward are Welsh posters on this board(shock). Even the hugely Welsh biased WOL agreed that the ball went backwards.

If in your mind it went forward, good for you. It didn't, but who cares about what actually happened.

End of the day, it matters little. The try rightly stood and didn't have a major influence on the result of the game.

You have no definitive proof then. Just the same biased hot air as ever.

P.S. Identify specifically where I said it went forward. If you could read or so much as recognise the concept of impartial debate you'd see I drew no definitive conclusion. It's that thing people call a lack of conclusive evidence.

Very impartial and unignorant, well said!

You know you're in trouble when Biltong gets involved!

Knowsit17 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:I have yet to see this supposed review. Do you have a replay you can share? Complete with zoom-ins and acute angles to show precisely what direction the ball drifted in? Or is your conclusion that the ball went forwards just biased assumption, as I suspect.

The replays I saw on the day showed nothing decisive whatsoever. They were too far away and too obscure for anyone to draw a fair conclusion. Yet people say whatever they like all the same.

The only people I've seen suggest that the ball went forward are Welsh posters on this board(shock). Even the hugely Welsh biased WOL agreed that the ball went backwards.

If in your mind it went forward, good for you. It didn't, but who cares about what actually happened.

End of the day, it matters little. The try rightly stood and didn't have a major influence on the result of the game.

You have no definitive proof then. Just the same biased hot air as ever.

P.S. Identify specifically where I said it went forward. If you could read or so much as recognise the concept of impartial debate you'd see I drew no definitive conclusion. It's that thing people call a lack of conclusive evidence.

I'm not quite sure why you seem determined he should provide definitive proof. The ball quite clearly did not go forward, the video referee confirmed it, and even watching it in real time on the day, it appeared to go backward in any case. What more definitive proof is there? It hardly alters the fact that had ford his kicking boots on, Wales would've been manshamed.

RDW_Scotland wrote:You know you're in trouble when Biltong gets involved!

It's a 'Welcome Back' from me to Bilt. Long time, no see - and it's straight into a bit of a civil war with grenades a poppin' and light-sabers a buzzin'

Jimpy wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:I have yet to see this supposed review. Do you have a replay you can share? Complete with zoom-ins and acute angles to show precisely what direction the ball drifted in? Or is your conclusion that the ball went forwards just biased assumption, as I suspect.

The replays I saw on the day showed nothing decisive whatsoever. They were too far away and too obscure for anyone to draw a fair conclusion. Yet people say whatever they like all the same.

The only people I've seen suggest that the ball went forward are Welsh posters on this board(shock). Even the hugely Welsh biased WOL agreed that the ball went backwards.

If in your mind it went forward, good for you. It didn't, but who cares about what actually happened.

End of the day, it matters little. The try rightly stood and didn't have a major influence on the result of the game.

You have no definitive proof then. Just the same biased hot air as ever.

P.S. Identify specifically where I said it went forward. If you could read or so much as recognise the concept of impartial debate you'd see I drew no definitive conclusion. It's that thing people call a lack of conclusive evidence.

I'm not quite sure why you seem determined he should provide definitive proof. The ball quite clearly did not go forward, the video referee confirmed it, and even watching it in real time on the day, it appeared to go backward in any case. What more definitive proof is there? It hardly alters the fact that had ford his kicking boots on, Wales would've been manshamed.

As Jimpy says really, what's there to prove?

The ball went backwards, it's quite easy to see this. The video ref found nothing wrong also, it's a pretty clear case.

SecretFly wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:You know you're in trouble when Biltong gets involved!

It's a 'Welcome Back' from me to Bilt.  Long time, no see - and it's straight into a bit of a civil war with grenades a poppin' and light-sabers a buzzin'

Hi Fly, how are you?

Biltong wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:You know you're in trouble when Biltong gets involved!

It's a 'Welcome Back' from me to Bilt.  Long time, no see - and it's straight into a bit of a civil war with grenades a poppin' and light-sabers a buzzin'

Hi Fly, how are you?

Oh still hanging in there, Bilt....

We'll be down your way trying to do the impossible soon And just when I said a week or so ago that Sexton will be central to any hope we might have...he's gone and won't be travelling.

3 nil to South Africa so

Yeah just heard about that as well, I think you guys have a decent shot here, new squad, many young players, new coach.

I have no idea what to expect, just hope we learn to be smarter this time round, Meyer really disappointed me

Jimpy wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:I have yet to see this supposed review. Do you have a replay you can share? Complete with zoom-ins and acute angles to show precisely what direction the ball drifted in? Or is your conclusion that the ball went forwards just biased assumption, as I suspect.

The replays I saw on the day showed nothing decisive whatsoever. They were too far away and too obscure for anyone to draw a fair conclusion. Yet people say whatever they like all the same.

The only people I've seen suggest that the ball went forward are Welsh posters on this board(shock). Even the hugely Welsh biased WOL agreed that the ball went backwards.

If in your mind it went forward, good for you. It didn't, but who cares about what actually happened.

End of the day, it matters little. The try rightly stood and didn't have a major influence on the result of the game.

You have no definitive proof then. Just the same biased hot air as ever.

P.S. Identify specifically where I said it went forward. If you could read or so much as recognise the concept of impartial debate you'd see I drew no definitive conclusion. It's that thing people call a lack of conclusive evidence.

I'm not quite sure why you seem determined he should provide definitive proof. The ball quite clearly did not go forward, the video referee confirmed it, and even watching it in real time on the day, it appeared to go backward in any case. What more definitive proof is there? It hardly alters the fact that had ford his kicking boots on, Wales would've been manshamed.

Because people should back up their claims. It's easy to say something without making the slightest bit of effort to show what you're saying is true.

The video ref said it was inconclusive. That's not confirmation of anything. He was asked specifically for evidence of a knock-on and found none due to the obscure, inconclusive nature of the footage. I didn't see a single clear view of the ball at the precise moment it was knocked forwards/backwards due to players obstructing the view. If someone talks as if they did I'll challenge them on it. Silly of me I know but I don't see why I should just swallow what the person with the clearly biased view says.

Yes Wales were manshamed, yes they're an atrocious outfit and yes they'll get totally humped by NZ. This has nothing to do with that. This has everything to do with people being assumptive without producing a shred of supporting evidence.

I think we have enough salt and guile to probably take one...maybe.  After that, it'll all depend on how well the players hold up.
I really don't know what to expect either Bilt.  The lap of the Gods.  First game will give us both a better sense of how the other two might pan out.

Oops...back to Wales... sorry folks.

Biggar has lost it imo, not long ago he seemed to have gotten control of his attitude and he was a better player for it, now he seems to have gone backwards.

Maybe he needs a move out of Wales.

TightHEAD wrote:Biggar has lost it imo, not long ago he seemed to have gotten control of his attitude and he was a better player for it, now he seems to have gone backwards.

Maybe he needs a move out of Wales.

If Gatland selected on form (anscombe) that might be the kick up the rear that's needed.

He is off to France to earn some money, but after his current contract is up.

Knowsit17 wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:I have yet to see this supposed review. Do you have a replay you can share? Complete with zoom-ins and acute angles to show precisely what direction the ball drifted in? Or is your conclusion that the ball went forwards just biased assumption, as I suspect.

The replays I saw on the day showed nothing decisive whatsoever. They were too far away and too obscure for anyone to draw a fair conclusion. Yet people say whatever they like all the same.

The only people I've seen suggest that the ball went forward are Welsh posters on this board(shock). Even the hugely Welsh biased WOL agreed that the ball went backwards.

If in your mind it went forward, good for you. It didn't, but who cares about what actually happened.

End of the day, it matters little. The try rightly stood and didn't have a major influence on the result of the game.

You have no definitive proof then. Just the same biased hot air as ever.

P.S. Identify specifically where I said it went forward. If you could read or so much as recognise the concept of impartial debate you'd see I drew no definitive conclusion. It's that thing people call a lack of conclusive evidence.

I'm not quite sure why you seem determined he should provide definitive proof. The ball quite clearly did not go forward, the video referee confirmed it, and even watching it in real time on the day, it appeared to go backward in any case. What more definitive proof is there? It hardly alters the fact that had ford his kicking boots on, Wales would've been manshamed.

Because people should back up their claims. It's easy to say something without making the slightest bit of effort to show what you're saying is true.

The video ref said it was inconclusive. That's not confirmation of anything. He was asked specifically for evidence of a knock-on and found none due to the obscure, inconclusive nature of the footage. I didn't see a single clear view of the ball at the precise moment it was knocked forwards/backwards due to players obstructing the view. If someone talks as if they did I'll challenge them on it. Silly of me I know but I don't see why I should just swallow what the person with the clearly biased view says.

Yes Wales were manshamed, yes they're an atrocious outfit and yes they'll get totally humped by NZ. This has nothing to do with that. This has everything to do with people being assumptive without producing a shred of supporting evidence.

But the supporting evidence was the video referee having a look and not finding anything wrong. You don't need any more supporting evidence than that. It went backwards, get over it.

TightHEAD wrote:Biggar has lost it imo, not long ago he seemed to have gotten control of his attitude and he was a better player for it, now he seems to have gone backwards.

Maybe he needs a move out of Wales.

I hope he doesn't get dropped from the Welsh squad, matches will be much less hilarious without his stupid little Macarena pre-kick routine.

Jimpy wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Biggar has lost it imo, not long ago he seemed to have gotten control of his attitude and he was a better player for it, now he seems to have gone backwards.

Maybe he needs a move out of Wales.

I hope he doesn't get dropped from the Welsh squad, matches will be much less hilarious without his stupid little Macarena pre-kick routine.

Let he who supports a team that has never had a kicker with a stupid pre-kick routine throw the first stone.

lostinwales wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Biggar has lost it imo, not long ago he seemed to have gotten control of his attitude and he was a better player for it, now he seems to have gone backwards.

Maybe he needs a move out of Wales.

I hope he doesn't get dropped from the Welsh squad, matches will be much less hilarious without his stupid little Macarena pre-kick routine.

Let he who supports a team that has never had a kicker with a stupid pre-kick routine throw the first stone.

I have seen plenty pre kick routines that are as funny and entertaining as they seem stupid.

Jimpy wrote:But the supporting evidence was the video referee having a look and not finding anything wrong. You don't need any more supporting evidence than that. It went backwards, get over it

No solid evidence of the ball going backwards or forwards was shown. The TMO reviewed the flow of play and couldn't find definitive proof of the ball going forwards as per the ref's question. That's not the same as saying he clearly saw the ball go backwards.

Let me break it down slightly in the event I'm not putting it quite clearly enough:

What did happen:
Clifford runs in for the try
Ref: "Just want to check for a knock on"
TMO reviews; doesn't get a clear view of the ball going forwards.
TMO: "It's inconclusive, can't see any evidence of a knock-on"
Try awarded

What did not happen:
Clifford runs in for the try
Ref: "Just want to check for a knock on"
TMO reviews; clearly sees the ball go backwards.
TMO: "The ball's clearly gone backwards, it's a try"
Try awarded

The try was not awarded due to clear evidence of the ball going backwards.
The try was awarded due to lack of clear evidence of the ball going forwards.

I can accept the restrictions of the law in this case and am not disputing the decision to award the try. Doesn't mean I have to swallow assumptive interpretations from people who act like they were in on it and know exactly what happened.

Biltong wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Biggar has lost it imo, not long ago he seemed to have gotten control of his attitude and he was a better player for it, now he seems to have gone backwards.

Maybe he needs a move out of Wales.

I hope he doesn't get dropped from the Welsh squad, matches will be much less hilarious without his stupid little Macarena pre-kick routine.

Let he who supports a team that has never had a kicker with a stupid pre-kick routine throw the first stone.

I have seen plenty pre kick routines that are as funny and entertaining as they seem stupid.

Only Biggar seems to be imitating early 90's Eurotrash though....

fa0019 wrote:Phase 1 crash ball - Roberts
Phase 2 crash ball - First flanker
Phase 3 crash ball - another forward
Phase 4 - 10 looks up, no major net gains, kick away.

PS - if a player sees a gap in phase 1 or 2... forget about it. We're going back into the trenches.

It's saddening how accurate that is, especially the postscript. If there's space, then for feck's sake attack it, regardless of how many phases there have been.

"It went backwards, get over it."

This is not necessarily true. Biggar claims the ball went forward, however, none of the officials can see what actually happened so its play on. The ball may or may not have gone forward. No one, except Biggar and Cole can see what actually happened. What is very clear is that the ball did go backwards at some point and be picked up by Clifford who is clearly behind Cole. On balance it is likely that the ball was knocked backwards by Cole as it did actually travel backwards but it is not conclusive.

Suck it up I guess. Leinster were denied a lovely try by a supposed forward pass in the Pro12 final.

It's strange too that it's often the most visually beautiful tries that often get knocked back by a blind ref or TMO

Forward or not, it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to the end result.

It was good play by Clifford and unfortunate for Wales there were no clear views. Looked a clear knock on for me ie off Cole into the Welsh guy (Roberts was it) before landing backwards (overall). Bit unlucky but only 1 guy was playing to the whistle.

englandglory4ever wrote:"It went backwards, get over it."

This is not necessarily true. Biggar claims the ball went forward, however, none of the officials can see what actually happened so its play on. The ball may or may not have gone forward. No one, except Biggar and Cole can see what actually happened. What is very clear is that the ball did go backwards at some point and be picked up by Clifford who is clearly behind Cole. On balance it is likely that the ball was knocked backwards by Cole as it did actually travel backwards but it is not conclusive.

Spot on. That's literally all I was trying to express through the incessant rambling

Always play to the Refs whistle, Wales didn't.

They just didn't turn up.

bedfordwelsh wrote:For me the WRU have roughly 12-18 months to make a decision.

In that time IF and its a huge IF but IF we move on and progress under Gatland then he'll be kept on and take us through to the World Cup.

However if as many fear we carry on going backwards then they have to give any potential new coach a decent timescale to try and get us into a shape ready for a World Cup.

No matter which way they decide Howley and McBryde must go now, dont even let them get on the plane tomorrow.

Does a coach need that long?

Cheika turned Australia from no-hopers in 2014 to contenders and runners-up in 2015. Brian Ashton took an awful England side in 2006 to the World Cup final in 2007 as well, even though they were never fully convincing under him. Graham Henry and Clive Woodward, on the other hand, both bombed out of their first World Cups despite having decent lead-times into the competition.

Gatland, Kidney and Eddie Jones all won Grand Slams in their first series as NH coaches. Schmidt got Ireland to within a gnat's pube of beating NZ in his first series 2013 and then won his first two 6 Nations.

I get that the World Cup is the showpiece of the International calendar, but I think there are a lot of fallacies regarding changing your coach before a World Cup (or indeed capping new players for the World Cup).

I think after the New Zealand series, the WRU would do well to appraise their options. If he comes back with a series win or even a test win, a lot of this will probably go away. But if he comes back with a 3-0 loss, the WRU should at least consider if there are other options.