Viewing figures

First topic message reminder :

I can never find proper viewing figures, but BARB seem to have some out now;


BT Sport Europe (w/e ‎15‎ ‎May‎ ‎2016)

EUROPEAN RUGBY CHAMPIONS CUP (SAT 1545) 131,000
EUROPEAN RUGBY CHALLENGE CUP (FRI 1900) 78,000



Sky Sports 2 (w/e ‎15‎ ‎May‎ ‎2016)

LIVE EUROPEAN RUGBY FINAL (SAT 1537) 121,000

Latest week available at the minute, will be interesting to see the other finals.

Flamingo Phil, isn't he a cartoon character?

SecretFly wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
Per population?  Does that jibe work?  I think the Welsh might beat the English too on that one.  

How is it a jibe? The population of South Wales is less than that of Leinster. You can't magic up crowds from no population.

So what the hell are you on about?

Now it's no population to fill stadiums?  Well a week or so ago it was simply no stomach fro Pro12.

Are you going to find a consistent leg to stand on here?  You're a flamingo, Phil... from one leg to another.

That's unfair Fly, Phil is schooling me here on how to shift an argument and cowpat or ashe calls it sharing the 'facts'

SecretFly wrote:

Now it's no population to fill stadiums?  Well a week or so ago it was simply no stomach for Pro12.

Are you going to find a consistent leg to stand on here?  You're a flamingo, Phil... from one leg to another.

WTF?

There is little interest in the PrO'12 yet still more Welsh folk per population than Irish pay for tickets for it. How is that difficult for you to understand?

Oh, hang on...

PhilBB wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
It's not me saying the IRFU fund the Pro12.  I'm telling you to your face, you're wrong in saying the Welsh do.  That's the reversal of argument I'm interested in.

I've never claimed that the Welsh fund the PrO'12, so you can tell me what you like to my face.

In return, I'll tell you that you're lying.

Phil: "What I noted was the Welsh teams generate the most TV income. I was right to.

The split of the Sky money is 40/40/20 so the Welsh teams generate 100% of the BBC Wales money and 40% of the Sky money. That means they bring in the most TV money."

That's close enough to a brag about funding the Pro12 for my liking.

PhilBB wrote:Eh? Where's the confusion between opinion and facts?.

The Pro12 is failing? That's a fact to you without anything to back it up other than those in charge are looking for change, Apple once decided to change their focus from iPods to iPhones was that because of failure?

PhilBB wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Now it's no population to fill stadiums?  Well a week or so ago it was simply no stomach for Pro12.

Are you going to find a consistent leg to stand on here?  You're a flamingo, Phil... from one leg to another.

WTF?

There is little interest in the PrO'12 yet still more Welsh folk per population than Irish pay for tickets for it. How is that difficult for you to understand?

Oh, hang on...

Is it difficult to understand that the same is probably true for the AP? Oh hang on...............

Per Population????

Let's stick to the 'No Interest'. You're better at that one.

I hate this crowds at games argument. It's so old and full of bullsh1t. The thing is, in Wales, there is far, far too much rugby to go around for the amount of people living here. Take my town for example, there are 60,000 people living in my town, and there are about ten rugby clubs.

Wales has about three times the rugby teams that Ireland has, and has half the population. There is not enough time, money or people in Wales to watch every team. I am lucky, I have enough money to watch rugby whenever I please, but for every person like me, there are about a 1000 people who are on the dole.

Also, lets not forget the time people devote to their local teams. If you take the people who are playing, from kids right up through the first team, then you are looking at a lot of people playing and not going to watch the fab four. Then take into account the parents, siblings, wives, girlfriends who help out and watch people playing, asking them to travel down to watch the regions as well as being committed to their village side is a bit of a pull.

Also, people go on about how more people watch the football than the rugby, but when you look at it, in the same area that we have Swansea FC we have Ospreys and Scarlets, if you combined the people who watch the two regions, along with the people who will watch Neath, Bridgend, Swansea, ect, I bet there would be more people in that area supporting rugby than football, the same for the east of Wales as well.

The thing is, the tele audience is so high in Wales for the regions because people will watch them on tele with a few cans, or in the clubhouse with a pint, after being involved with their local sides. People cannot be in two places at once, and for some it is one or the other, as money is short in South Wales. I know of lots of people who go to watch Merthyr rather than Cardiff Blues, it's choice they make, they cannot do both for what ever reason.

Reasonable argument, Lord ... but such an argument absolves Pro12 of being the villain of the piece surely?

Some here though still think more people at Pro12 games (therefore more leverage to demand more money from sponsors and broadcasters) is doable.  

If it's doable then we're back to 'No Interest' as being the main culprit in Wales.

Also how do the Scottish and Italians always get off so lightly when it comes to this subject, they have even less clubs, and more population ?

LordDowlais wrote:I hate this crowds at games argument. It's so old and full of bullsh1t. The thing is, in Wales, there is far, far too much rugby to go around for the amount of people living here. Take my town for example, there are 60,000 people living in my town, and there are about ten rugby clubs.

Wales has about three times the rugby teams that Ireland has, and has half the population. There is not enough time, money or people in Wales to watch every team. I am lucky, I have enough money to watch rugby whenever I please, but for every person like me, there are about a 1000 people who are on the dole.

Also, lets not forget the time people devote to their local teams. If you take the people who are playing, from kids right up through the first team, then you are looking at a lot of people playing and not going to watch the fab four. Then take into account the parents, siblings, wives, girlfriends who help out and watch people playing, asking them to travel down to watch the regions as well as being committed to their village side is a bit of a pull.

Also, people go on about how more people watch the football than the rugby, but when you look at it, in the same area that we have Swansea FC we have Ospreys and Scarlets, if you combined the people who watch the two regions, along with the people who will watch Neath, Bridgend, Swansea, ect, I bet there would be more people in that area supporting rugby than football, the same for the east of Wales as well.

The thing is, the tele audience is so high in Wales for the regions because people will watch them on tele with a few cans, or in the clubhouse with a pint, after being involved with their local sides. People cannot be in two places at once, and for some it is one or the other, as money is short in South Wales. I know of lots of people who go to watch Merthyr rather than Cardiff Blues, it's choice they make, they cannot do both for what ever reason.

Righto so none of all those hundreds of football teams have families spending their weekends volunteering to keep them going then?

All of which misses the point that the PrO'12 cannot and may not ever deliver a product that can compete with its commercial rivals. All the bums on seats in Celtdom won't change that.

LordDowlais wrote:Also how do the Scottish and Italians always get off so lightly when it comes to this subject, they have even less clubs, and more population ?

They're not Irish?

PhilBB wrote:

Sin é wrote:
I'd say its the amateur game that keeps the game alive in Wales. Most players could move to England or France and still represent Wales. It work out a whole lot cheaper for the WRU.

Take the Bristol outhalf Sheedy. He is Welsh/Irish, but went to school in England and is playing at an English club. What input will the Welsh Regions have into his development?

Sheedy who played for Cardiff Blues Academy? That one?

I think that this post from you is completely dishonest. That level of trolling makes me wonder if anything you write is genuine. For your part, I'd hope it's not.

cowpat Phil. Its the amateur game that keeps it alive. It certainly isn't the regions. Funny there is no mention of Sheedy being in the Cardiff Blues Academy - just a mention of his Cardiff School prior to him heading off to an English school. Interesting that he didn't return to Cardiff!

As an aside, there is an interview with Jack O'Connell (irish prop with Bristol) who mentions that the only people not showing any interest in Sheedy is Ireland. Plenty of interest from Wales & England.

I'm scratching my head as to why you are concerned for me about whether I'm genuine or not.

LordDowlais wrote:Also how do the Scottish and Italians always get off so lightly when it comes to this subject, they have even less clubs, and more population ?

Because the Scots and Italians are not part of this Welsh/Irish bull poop that has plagued this place for the last few years.

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Also how do the Scottish and Italians always get off so lightly when it comes to this subject, they have even less clubs, and more population ?

They're not Irish?

NO. It's the Irish who use the stick to beat Wales with. Our empty stadiums. When we have a better average attendance than both Scotland and Italy with twice as many teams and a fraction of the population.

SecretFly wrote:
Phil: "What I noted was the Welsh teams generate the most TV income. I was right to.

The split of the Sky money is 40/40/20 so the Welsh teams generate 100% of the BBC Wales money and 40% of the Sky money. That means they bring in the most TV money."

That's close enough to a brag about funding the Pro12 for my liking.

Well, that's a pretty damning statement on your 'liking'.

marty2086 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:Eh? Where's the confusion between opinion and facts?.

The Pro12 is failing? That's a fact to you without anything to back it up other than those in charge are looking for change, Apple once decided to change their focus from iPods to iPhones was that because of failure?

They still make iPods.

SecretFly wrote:

Is it difficult to understand that the same is probably true for the AP?  Oh hang on...............

Per Population????

Let's stick to the 'No Interest'.  You're better at that one.

There's little interest, yet still more interest per population (and more income generated) than the pious Irish.

Dem's der facts for yer man.

Sin é wrote:
cowpat Phil. Its the amateur game that keeps it alive. It certainly isn't the regions. Funny there is no mention of Sheedy being in the Cardiff Blues Academy - just a mention of his Cardiff School prior to him heading off to an English school. Interesting that he didn't return to Cardiff!

As an aside, there is an interview with Jack O'Connell (irish prop with Bristol) who mentions that the only people not showing any interest in Sheedy is Ireland. Plenty of interest from Wales & England.

I'm scratching my head as to why you are concerned for me about whether I'm genuine or not.

Here's a picture of Callum Sheedy playing for Cardiff Blues: http://i1.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/article8789407.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/1Callum-Sheedy-USE.jpg

I'm concerned simply because I've no idea how you get dressed in the morning if you were displaying your honest opinion in that previous post.

LordDowlais wrote:

NO. It's the Irish who use the stick to beat Wales with. Our empty stadiums. When we have a better average attendance than both Scotland and Italy with twice as many teams and a fraction of the population.

You're quite right, sir.

We also attract more ticket buyers per head of population and contribute more income than Ireland to the PrO'12. Yet, somehow, the Irish are fooled by the narrative that Wales is the problem.

It's obviously the fear that a Wales-xit from the PrO'12 will kill their professional game stone dead.

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:Eh? Where's the confusion between opinion and facts?.

The Pro12 is failing? That's a fact to you without anything to back it up other than those in charge are looking for change, Apple once decided to change their focus from iPods to iPhones was that because of failure?

They still make iPods.

Read again genius, changed their focus

Change

=

Not always bad

marty2086 wrote:

Read again genius, changed their focus

Change

=

Not always bad

Oh dear. They still focus on both, Martyn, as they still manufacture and sell both.

It's not even 9am and you're at it. It's quite incredible. There really is no solution, is there?

PhilBB wrote:

Sin é wrote:
cowpat Phil. Its the amateur game that keeps it alive. It certainly isn't the regions. Funny there is no mention of Sheedy being in the Cardiff Blues Academy - just a mention of his Cardiff School prior to him heading off to an English school. Interesting that he didn't return to Cardiff!

As an aside, there is an interview with Jack O'Connell (irish prop with Bristol) who mentions that the only people not showing any interest in Sheedy is Ireland. Plenty of interest from Wales & England.

I'm scratching my head as to why you are concerned for me about whether I'm genuine or not.

Here's a picture of Callum Sheedy playing for Cardiff Blues: http://i1.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/article8789407.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/1Callum-Sheedy-USE.jpg

I'm concerned simply because I've no idea how you get dressed in the morning if you were displaying your honest opinion in that previous post.

Just because Sheedy played for Cardiff (considering it is his hometown), he mustn't have thought much of the Academy - otherwise he would not be in Bristol's one now. I'd be shocked if any young Irish player attached to any of the Provincial Academies turned down an opportunity to represent Ireland.

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Read again genius, changed their focus

Change

=

Not always bad

Oh dear. They still focus on both, Martyn, as they still manufacture and sell both.

It's not even 9am and you're at it. It's quite incredible. There really is no solution, is there?

Really?

http://www.statista.com/statistics/276307/global-apple-ipod-sales-since-fiscal-year-2006/

http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/apple-says-goodbye-to-the-ipod-classic/

Again focusing on the minutiae because you were wrong

Sin é wrote:

Just because Sheedy played for Cardiff (considering it is his hometown), he mustn't have thought much of the Academy - otherwise he would not be in Bristol's one now. I'd be shocked if any young Irish player attached to any of the Provincial Academies turned down an opportunity to represent Ireland.

So now you accept that he was part of the Academy. At least some progress is being made with you.

Maybe the concept of a land border with another country is alien to you (although it really shouldn't be), meaning that you wouldn't understand multi-nationality. I had hoped that you would have understood it, for your own sake, but it seems not.

Playing for Wales u20 ties you to Wales. If Sheedy had done that, his value in the English Premiership would have dropped because he wouldn't count towards their EQ targets.

And Sheedy joined Bristol from Millfield. You don't turn down scholarships to Millfield. He couldn't have been at Millfield and in the Cardiff Blues academy.

Again, you've shown yourself to be pretty clueless of the issues of sharing an education system, 'border', land mass and economy with England.

marty2086 wrote:

Really?

http://www.statista.com/statistics/276307/global-apple-ipod-sales-since-fiscal-year-2006/

http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/apple-says-goodbye-to-the-ipod-classic/

Again focusing on the minutiae because you were wrong

Think about what you've just written. You've claimed Apple no longer focus on a product they sold 14 million units of last year.

http://www.apple.com/uk/ipod/

There's a tremendous logic gap into claiming that I'm wrong about the PrO'12 failing because Apple sell 14 millions iPods a year.

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Really?

http://www.statista.com/statistics/276307/global-apple-ipod-sales-since-fiscal-year-2006/

http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/apple-says-goodbye-to-the-ipod-classic/

Again focusing on the minutiae because you were wrong

Think about what you've just written. You've claimed Apple no longer focus on a product they sold 14 million units of last year.

http://www.apple.com/uk/ipod/

There's a tremendous logic gap into claiming that I'm wrong about the PrO'12 failing because Apple sell 14 millions iPods a year.

PhilBB wrote:

There's a tremendous logic gap into claiming that I'm wrong about the PrO'12 failing because Apple sell 14 millions iPods a year.

But you are wrong about this. Income up, standards of rugby up, crowds up. Its a success by any standards its just most of the welsh teams underperform in it despite having the same funding as anyone else. all this is fact, your postings are paranoid nonsense

TJ wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

There's a tremendous logic gap into claiming that I'm wrong about the PrO'12 failing because Apple sell 14 millions iPods a year.

But you are wrong about this.  Income up, standards of rugby up, crowds up.  Its a success by any standards its  just most of the welsh teams underperform in it despite having the same funding as anyone else.  all this is fact, your postings are paranoid nonsense

TJ wrote:
But you are wrong about this.  Income up, standards of rugby up, crowds up.  Its a success by any standards its  just most of the welsh teams underperform in it despite having the same funding as anyone else.  all this is fact, your postings are paranoid nonsense

Crowds are down in Ireland this year. You're aware of that?

It's not a success by standards of their competitors. It has an embarrassingly poor comparative TV contract.

And the Welsh teams get demonstrably less than their competitors. You're arguing against audited fact there, Champ.

marty2086 wrote:

Is that genuinely how you see it?

I get the point of absolute improvement in income thanks to Sky, but that's not year on year. As for the standards being up, it looks like the comparative measurement of European rugby disproves that. Crowds up? Not in Ireland. Welsh teams having the same funding? Well, that's demonstrably untrue, of course.

So why are you supporting a post so obviously incorrect?

PhilBB wrote:

TJ wrote:
But you are wrong about this.  Income up, standards of rugby up, crowds up.  Its a success by any standards its  just most of the welsh teams underperform in it despite having the same funding as anyone else.  all this is fact, your postings are paranoid nonsense

Crowds are down in Ireland this year. You're aware of that?

It's not a success by standards of their competitors. It has an embarrassingly poor comparative TV contract.

And the Welsh teams get demonstrably less than their competitors. You're arguing against audited fact there, Champ.

Which is attributable to the RWC which had a severe knock on effect on the crowds and it wasn't just Ireland that saw drops in crowds. (This is one of the key reasons the Pro12 are looking into change)

We have been over the whole tv contracts thing before, an always changing, unstable product up against established leagues that have been around 30 years and over 100 years not to mention different markets.

It isn't demonstrable that the Welsh get less than their competitors and you don't know how much the Irish teams get outside of guesswork and estimates but if it was then isn't that a problem with private ownership, you know, the model you bleat on about everyone else adopting?

marty2086 wrote:
Which is attributable to the RWC which had a severe knock on effect on the crowds and it wasn't just Ireland that saw drops in crowds. (This is one of the key reasons the Pro12 are looking into change)

We have been over the whole tv contracts thing before, an always changing, unstable product up against established leagues that have been around 30 years and over 100 years not to mention different markets.

It isn't demonstrable that the Welsh get less than their competitors and you don't know how much the Irish teams get outside of guesswork and estimates but if it was then isn't that a problem with private ownership, you know, the model you bleat on about everyone else adopting?

Overall attendance in Wales grew, despite the World Cup.

We know the total spend by the IRFU on the domestic professional game. It's written in their Annual Report. It is more than the WRU spend on it. Hence you're wholly wrong about that, too. Ditto Scotland. And we know the figures for England and DNACG show the figures for France.

The issue isn't the problem with private ownership. It's with the WRU spending more than necessary on Barclays, as you've been told numerous times before.

NO phil - the funding streams are identical - you are comparing apples with pears. Also the (part?) private owned model the welsh have allows the owners to put money in. The irish and the scos do not have that luxury. We have done this to death and proven you wrong many times but here is the simple version for you again

Glasgow - Total budget of around 5 Million - this has to include coaches and all the support staff, travel to away games and ground costs. Welsh teams PLAYING budget of around 3.5 - 4.5 million plus the amounts from central sources for dual contract players. this does not include coaches and support staff nor travel or ground costs. So the Welsh teams playing budget will be bigger than Glasgow

the issue is IMO that the welsh teams spend far too much on a small group of senior players to keep them in Wales meaning there is not enough left for a decent sized squad of pro 12 standard players.

Yes you are right, I shouldn't use statbunker for figures my bad. Welsh attendance's grow by just under 6000 across the season. Not bad for no one having an interest in the league

We don't know the total spend by the IRFU as it doesn't list the domestic professional spend as you well know. It lists the professional costs of the game In Ireland across the national team and provinces. Since you say it lists it why not tell us how much Connacht had to work with last season?

The WRU don't own the regions, so what they spend their money on doesn't impact on what private owners invest.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Also how do the Scottish and Italians always get off so lightly when it comes to this subject, they have even less clubs, and more population ?

They're not Irish?

NO. It's the Irish who use the stick to beat Wales with. Our empty stadiums. When we have a better average attendance than both Scotland and Italy with twice as many teams and a fraction of the population.

Sure it is, LD, sure it is......

Munchkin wrote:Sure it is, LD, sure it is......

Then why is it brought up so often ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Sure it is, LD, sure it is......

Then why is it brought up so often ?

As a response.

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Sure it is, LD, sure it is......

Then why is it brought up so often ?

As a response.

To what ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Sure it is, LD, sure it is......

Then why is it brought up so often ?

As a response.

To what ?

Originally to Chunky's obsession with the Irish, and now to Phils.

The both of them really want to be Irish. It's so obvious.

Rules on Being Irish:

1:  A four year tour of duty on a It's the Pro12's Fault thread is an essential foundation.  If you don't have the guts for that battle then we don't want you and we'll invoke our Farage Mechanism and kick you right owth, innit!!!

We'll get to the other 10,000 points only after you pass point 1.

Rules on being Welsh;

1: if you have an opinion, then be aware it is wrong and you will be told so on numerous occations
2: if you have a fact, be prepared to have to prove it from a minimum of three reliable sources, or it will be classed as you lying
3: if you believe someone else is giving out false information, be prepared to prove it is incorrect from a minimum of three reliable sources, or it will be classed as you not accepting facts

Well Chunky crumbled under the pressure but Phil might just last the distance. That's if spontaneous human combustion doesn't take him first o0

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Rules on being Welsh;

1: if you have an opinion, then be aware it is wrong and you will be told so on numerous occations
2: if you have a fact, be prepared to have to prove it from a minimum of three reliable sources, or it will be classed as you lying
3: if you believe someone else is giving out false information, be prepared to prove it is incorrect from a minimum of three reliable sources, or it will be classed as you not accepting facts

That makes most Irish posters here Welsh!!...according to Phil and Chunky.

Phil himself though, using that criteria...ain't.

Wonder where he IS from? Now I'm intrigued.............................

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Rules on being Welsh;

1: if you have an opinion, then be aware it is wrong and you will be told so on numerous occations
2: if you have a fact, be prepared to have to prove it from a minimum of three reliable sources, or it will be classed as you lying
3: if you believe someone else is giving out false information, be prepared to prove it is incorrect from a minimum of three reliable sources, or it will be classed as you not accepting facts

Yea but how many of those directives came from Brussels?

Yea but how many of those directives came from Brussels?

If you pay heed to the utterings of brassica does it matter from where you are from?

This thread is hilarious.