South Africa v Ireland, 11 June

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SOUTH AFRICA v IRELAND
11 June 2016
17:00 SAST (UTC+02)
DHL Newlands, Cape Town

Live on Sky Sports

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

22 Played 22
16 Won 5
1 Drawn 1
5 Lost 16
422 Points 277

B. Recent Form

8 November 2014 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 29 – 15 to Ireland

10 November 2012 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 12 – 16 to South Africa

6 November 2010 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 21 – 23 to South Africa

28 November 2009 - Croke Park, Dublin: 15 – 10 to Ireland

11 November 2006 - Lansdowne Road, Dublin: 32 – 15 to Ireland

13 November 2004 - Lansdowne Road, Dublin: 17 – 12 to Ireland

19 June 2004 - Newlands, Cape Town: 26 – 17 to South Africa

C. Teams

SOUTH AFRICA 

15 Willie le Roux, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Lionel Mapoe, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Adriaan Strauss (captain), 1 Tendai Mtawarira

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi 17 Trevor Nyakane 18 Julian Redelinghuys 19 Pieter-Steph du Toit 20 Warren Whiteley 21 Rudy Paige 22 Elton Jantjies 23 Jesse Kriel

IRELAND

J Payne; A Trimble, R Henshaw, L Marshall, K Earls; P Jackson, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best, M Ross; I Henderson, D Toner; CJ Stander, J Murphy, J Heaslip

Replacements: S Cronin, F Bealham, T Furlong, U Dillane, R Ruddock, K Marmion, I Madigan, C Gilroy.

SecretFly wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Re: Zebo - do you believe its because he just doesn't have it in him or has he just failed to (be) develop(ed)?

Zebo has it in him but needs a certain kind of coach to really bring it to the bubble.  Zebo has had too much publicity pushed his way too early - and, may I say, too many people in the media and elsewhere getting behind the zeebuzz and swelling the ego a little by starting this campaign back then to have the one true saviour of Irish rugby allowed into the team.  That flushed the cheeks of Zebo and made life difficult for the man that wanted him but wanted him to be complete before taking him.

Zebo has something but even now I still think he needs some coach (Provincial) to guide the journey better.  Funnily enough, I'd love a season of Zebo with no smiles.  I always make fun of the 'knowing frown' guys (Kearney, Murray etc) but Zebo is the opposite.  I'd like to see a mean and intense Zebo for a season or two.

Its probably not a good comparison but on our side of the water we have Watson -who was good - but over the last season has got a lot better

I actually think thats the right decision- I think thats where he needs to play for Munster and Ireland. He has a good boot and he is way more dangerous coming into the line from fullback.

I don't even view it as a hard decision. He should play fullback full time.

I've decided to ignore my head and sound reasoning and put my money where my heart is.

€40 on Ireland to win at 5/1.

Obviously the bookies know best, but still couldn't resist....

South Africa are 1/8 and NZ 1/20 - doomsday stuff.

Thornley thinks Payne will play 15


Schmidt out!

the-goon wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

the-goon wrote:

Read: I've been praying for poor results so I can stick the boot in Schmidt.

Oh dear...

If you believe we are in the midst of a clear decline, do you expect us to lose 3 nil in SA and then do worse than 3rd place in the 6N next year?

How long has this decline been going on for?

Yes I believe that Ireland are in a decline, just as they were under Declan. I have said what I believe Joe is good at and what I feel he is bad at, its an opinion from me. If you think that I am praying for bad results then you have an inability to comprehend what is being said or you only pick out the points you wish in order to WUM.

Pot Hale wrote:I've decided to ignore my head and sound reasoning and put my money where my heart is.

€40 on Ireland to win at 5/1.

Obviously the bookies know best, but still couldn't resist....

South Africa are 1/8 and NZ 1/20 - doomsday stuff.

The manic depressant strategy right... double the joy double the pain.

Munchkin wrote:Thornley thinks Payne will play 15


Schmidt out!

Thornley is rarely wrong, I hope he's got it right again

So are we thinking Marshall at 13 with Robbie 12. Or Olding or Marshall 12 with Robbie at 13?
Either way I'm quite excited now

So Schmidt has applied for the Crusaders job and will leave Ireland after this current tour (presumably only if he's successful in his application).

Les Kiss belongs to Ulster so hands of him Nucifora, go look elsewhere

[quote="Pete330v2"]So Schmidt has applied for the Crusaders job and will leave Ireland after this current tour (presumably only if he's successful in his application).

Les Kiss belongs to Ulster so hands of him Nucifora, go look elsewhere[/quoth

Is this official or still a strong rumours

Thornley thinks Payne at 15, Jackson at 10, Jordi Murphy at 7- but isn't willing to commit to saying whether it will be Henderson or Dillane partnering Toner, or Olding or Marshall partnering Henshaw.

carpet baboon wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:So Schmidt has applied for the Crusaders job and will leave Ireland after this current tour (presumably only if he's successful in his application).

Les Kiss belongs to Ulster so hands of him Nucifora, go look elsewhere[/quoth

Is this official or still a strong rumours

I am on the search for verification but can't find anything solid. I may have jumped the gun.

You've seen the same rumours that have been going around for the last few days Pete.

Could be true. Lot of smoke- might indicate a fire. Who knows?

Notch wrote:Thornley thinks Payne at 15, Jackson at 10, Jordi Murphy at 7- but isn't willing to commit to saying whether it will be Henderson or Dillane partnering Toner, or Olding or Marshall partnering Henshaw.

Heaslip hasn't gotten around to telling him yet.

Heaslip - it has to be. He's the mole.

eirebilly wrote:

the-goon wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

the-goon wrote:

Read: I've been praying for poor results so I can stick the boot in Schmidt.

Oh dear...

If you believe we are in the midst of a clear decline, do you expect us to lose 3 nil in SA and then do worse than 3rd place in the 6N next year?

How long has this decline been going on for?

Yes I believe that Ireland are in a decline, just as they were under Declan. I have said what I believe Joe is good at and what I feel he is bad at, its an opinion from me. If you think that I am praying for bad results then you have an inability to comprehend what is being said or you only pick out the points you wish in order to WUM.

I'm not WUMing, I'm picking apart your points. The fact that you have either not responded directly my criticism or simply provided shoddy answers indicate to me that you are secretly happy for Ireland fail under JS or at the very least want to be the 1st to say I told you so after any kind of failure.

Please answer these questions directly:

1. When did this decline start?
2. Do you think the timeframe in question is fair to constitute a decline?


3. Please define what you mean as players "expressing themselves".
4. Do you think that definition is possible on an International rugby pitch?
5. Do we have the players who are good enough to do this? Who are they?

6. Regarding "excellent" to "good", you gave 1 example that has been thoroughly de-bunked (Zebo). Any others? I'm sure you have more, as I said around 3 would show that this is a real issue.

7. If not JS, our most successful coach eve, then who else?
8. We are 7th in the World. NZ, SA, AUS, ENG, WAL and ARG are ahead of us, with our current crop of players who should we be better than? Please also consider that between 7th (Us) and 4th (Eng) there is are just 4 ranking points between them.

Here are my answers for transparency

1. There is no decline, just 1 poor season mitigated by injuries to key players. We have a small playing pool, and only a few genuine top players, when they get injured there a step down in quality.
2. N/A

3. My take is that you think this is off the cuff flair rugby, behind the back offloads etc.
4. Playing that way without skills or physical attributes required is suicide that this level.
5. We don't have any really, we need to play a structured game where everyone knows their roles. There is not enough space to do otherwise. If an offload is on it's taken as the both the passer and receiver know about it and are in the right position to do so.

6. You are talking poopie here

7. There is no one better than him
8. Where are in that 4th to 8th in world bracket, any team can beat the other. I see JS being the best man to give us any success.

Notch wrote:Thornley thinks Payne at 15, Jackson at 10, Jordi Murphy at 7- but isn't willing to commit to saying whether it will be Henderson or Dillane partnering Toner, or Olding or Marshall partnering Henshaw.

Were they not training with Henshaw at 15 earlier in the week with Olding and Payne in the centres. Joe always talks up Paynes defence, leadership and experience as to why hes at 13 so can't see that changing now with so many of those qualities being lost with no Sexton around

Notch wrote:You've seen the same rumours that have been going around for the last few days Pete.

Could be true. Lot of smoke- might indicate a fire. Who knows?

Damn it Notch, I thought they were brand new rumours
I really must get on these forums more

the-goon, I am sorry that you are unable to comprehend what is being written and as such require bullet point responses.

1. I have stated many times that I feel that Ireland started to decline during the 2015 6N. Ireland won n points but the signs were there for me to make this assumption. In the lead up to the RWC, during the RWC and the 2016 6N my personal feelings were confirmed to me. I do not expect everyone to share my opinions, they are mine and this is an open forum.

2. I do feel that the time frames I have given are good to make this assumption. Once again, these are my opinions, they do not have to be agreed with.

3. I believe that players should be backed for their own individual strengths and game plans built on players strengths. Its not all about offloads and expansive play. Look back in my posting history and you will see that. I was a big campaigner to get Henderson in the Ireland team when it was consistently said that he did not play the Schmidt game.

4. Try to understand first what I am saying above and you will have an answer to this.

5. Again, try to understand what I am saying in point 3 and you will realise this is another pointless question.

6. I am tired of explaining this but hey ho, I say that in game situations, players who stick to the regimented game plan loose that creative spark they posses in order to stick with the plan. Average players step up a level. This is not a slight on Joe, its actually a compliment but you do not seem to realise this in you one man personal agenda to attack me. I can give you names but it will be pointless as you will only see what you want to see and find another angle in which to confront me. Again, I must stress that this is an open forum where people share their own opinions, not everybody has to agree. Am I getting through to you?

7. Many on here know that I feel that EOS was Ireland's best coach in the last 20 years. I know you so desperately wanted me to say Kidney as that would have given you a thrill. Sorry to disappoint you there. Saying there is no-one better than Schmidt is simple fan boy quotes.

8. I don't focus on rankings, I focus on performances. You focus on the rankings all you like but they are not important to me.

marty2086 wrote:

Notch wrote:Thornley thinks Payne at 15, Jackson at 10, Jordi Murphy at 7- but isn't willing to commit to saying whether it will be Henderson or Dillane partnering Toner, or Olding or Marshall partnering Henshaw.

Were they not training with Henshaw at 15 earlier in the week with Olding and Payne in the centres. Joe always talks up Paynes defence, leadership and experience as to why hes at 13 so can't see that changing now with so many of those qualities being lost with no Sexton around

Yes I would be very surprised as well. But he also requires certain things of his fullback in terms of kicking game, positioning etc. What does he do if the only player he deems good enough to play 13 or 15 is Payne? Something has to give somewhere.

Was interesting to see Gilroy sent out to face the media the other day- will he be involved somewhere? On the bench perhaps? Will Oldings ability to play out half and fullback see him bench ahead of Madigan?

eirebilly wrote:the-goon, I am sorry that you are unable to comprehend what is being written and as such require bullet point responses.

1. I have stated many times that I feel that Ireland started to decline during the 2015 6N. Ireland won n points but the signs were there for me to make this assumption. In the lead up to the RWC, during the RWC and the 2016 6N my personal feelings were confirmed to me. I do not expect everyone to share my opinions, they are mine and this is an open forum.

2. I do feel that the time frames I have given are good to make this assumption. Once again, these are my opinions, they do not have to be agreed with.

3. I believe that players should be backed for their own individual strengths and game plans built on players strengths. Its not all about offloads and expansive play. Look back in my posting history and you will see that. I was a big campaigner to get Henderson in the Ireland team when it was consistently said that he did not play the Schmidt game.

4. Try to understand first what I am saying above and you will have an answer to this.

5. Again, try to understand what I am saying in point 3 and you will realise this is another pointless question.

6. I am tired of explaining this but hey ho, I say that in game situations, players who stick to the regimented game plan loose that creative spark they posses in order to stick with the plan. Average players step up a level. This is not a slight on Joe, its actually a compliment but you do not seem to realise this in you one man personal agenda to attack me. I can give you names but it will be pointless as you will only see what you want to see and find another angle in which to confront me. Again, I must stress that this is an open forum where people share their own opinions, not everybody has to agree. Am I getting through to you?

7. Many on here know that I feel that EOS was Ireland's best coach in the last 20 years. I know you so desperately wanted me to say Kidney as that would have given you a thrill. Sorry to disappoint you there. Saying there is no-one better than Schmidt is simple fan boy quotes.

8. I don't focus on rankings, I focus on performances. You focus on the rankings all you like but they are not important to me.

Nice answers Billy, I know where you're coming from and I once again echo exactly what you're saying. Even on the EOS subject.
As you say, not everyone will agree and because of that they are wrong !!!!!

Notch wrote:Thornley thinks Payne at 15, Jackson at 10, Jordi Murphy at 7- but isn't willing to commit to saying whether it will be Henderson or Dillane partnering Toner, or Olding or Marshall partnering Henshaw.

That'd be the perfect selection for some of the people who want to see Schmidt out.Win or even play well and it'll be because he picked Payne at 15,lose or play poorly and it'll be because Murphy was at 7,probably some crying about Heaslip,Toner and possibly Ross too.

Schmidt as a coach destroys confidence. He keeps telling us what we are not good at. I'm sick of hearing about Schmidt giving players work-ons. He should be telling those guys they are world beaters. Lam (& Penney), coached positively and build confidence. Ronan O'Gara said the best coach he had because he was always positive and building confidence which he really appreciated.

Rob Kearney in 2009 was a much better player than he is now. Earls & Zebo have both lost their spark (but boy can they resource rucks). Even Schmidt was such a great coach, he would have turned Fionn Carr into a much better player (who had the spark coached out of him) and now is out of a job.

marty2086 wrote:

Notch wrote:Thornley thinks Payne at 15, Jackson at 10, Jordi Murphy at 7- but isn't willing to commit to saying whether it will be Henderson or Dillane partnering Toner, or Olding or Marshall partnering Henshaw.

Were they not training with Henshaw at 15 earlier in the week with Olding and Payne in the centres. Joe always talks up Paynes defence, leadership and experience as to why hes at 13 so can't see that changing now with so many of those qualities being lost with no Sexton around

I feel that putting Payne at 15 would be an excellent decision. I feel he is a much better 15 than 13. It would have to be Marshall at 12 and Henshaw at 13 if Paddy starts though.

eirebilly wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Notch wrote:Thornley thinks Payne at 15, Jackson at 10, Jordi Murphy at 7- but isn't willing to commit to saying whether it will be Henderson or Dillane partnering Toner, or Olding or Marshall partnering Henshaw.

Were they not training with Henshaw at 15 earlier in the week with Olding and Payne in the centres. Joe always talks up Paynes defence, leadership and experience as to why hes at 13 so can't see that changing now with so many of those qualities being lost with no Sexton around

I feel that putting Payne at 15 would be an excellent decision. I feel he is a much better 15 than 13. It would have to be Marshall at 12 and Henshaw at 13 if Paddy starts though.

I'd prefer Olding at 12,Henshaw at 13.Olding just looks a real classy player at 12 whereas I think Marshalls best work has come at OC.

You may be right there asoreleftshoulder but I feel that Olding is better coming off the bench as a replacement back. Having him on the bench gives Ireland some good impact strength in the backs. It may also just be me wanting to see Henshaw at 13 though

eirebilly wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Notch wrote:Thornley thinks Payne at 15, Jackson at 10, Jordi Murphy at 7- but isn't willing to commit to saying whether it will be Henderson or Dillane partnering Toner, or Olding or Marshall partnering Henshaw.

Were they not training with Henshaw at 15 earlier in the week with Olding and Payne in the centres. Joe always talks up Paynes defence, leadership and experience as to why hes at 13 so can't see that changing now with so many of those qualities being lost with no Sexton around

I feel that putting Payne at 15 would be an excellent decision. I feel he is a much better 15 than 13. It would have to be Marshall at 12 and Henshaw at 13 if Paddy starts though.

I agree Paynes best at 15, Im just saying Joes logic has always been that Payne brings a lot of the unseen stuff to 13 he likes and without Sexton there his value to Joe at 13 goes up

I'd love to see him at 15 with Marshall and Henshaw at centre where they can mix it up as both can play 12 and 13 and Olding coming on against a tiring SA and his quick feet having a bit more impact

Marshalls kicking I think gives him the edge over Olding in the game plan

eirebilly wrote:You may be right there asoreleftshoulder but I feel that Olding is better coming off the bench as a replacement back. Having him on the bench gives Ireland some good impact strength in the backs. It may also just be me wanting to see Henshaw at 13 though

I'd say his 3rd sub in the backs will be a back 3 player.With Payne and Earls on the pitch we have the centre covered,although he doesn't like swapping positions mid match so who knows really.

the-goon wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

the-goon wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

the-goon wrote:

Read: I've been praying for poor results so I can stick the boot in Schmidt.

Oh dear...

If you believe we are in the midst of a clear decline, do you expect us to lose 3 nil in SA and then do worse than 3rd place in the 6N next year?

How long has this decline been going on for?

Yes I believe that Ireland are in a decline, just as they were under Declan. I have said what I believe Joe is good at and what I feel he is bad at, its an opinion from me. If you think that I am praying for bad results then you have an inability to comprehend what is being said or you only pick out the points you wish in order to WUM.

I'm not WUMing, I'm picking apart your points. The fact that you have either not responded directly my criticism or simply provided shoddy answers indicate to me that you are secretly happy for Ireland fail under JS or at the very least want to be the 1st to say I told you so after any kind of failure.

Please answer these questions directly:

1. When did this decline start?
2. Do you think the timeframe in question is fair to constitute a decline?


3. Please define what you mean as players "expressing themselves".
4. Do you think that definition is possible on an International rugby pitch?
5. Do we have the players who are good enough to do this? Who are they?

6. Regarding "excellent" to "good", you gave 1 example that has been thoroughly de-bunked (Zebo). Any others? I'm sure you have more, as I said around 3 would show that this is a real issue.

7. If not JS, our most successful coach eve, then who else?
8. We are 7th in the World. NZ, SA, AUS, ENG, WAL and ARG are ahead of us, with our current crop of players who should we be better than? Please also consider that between 7th (Us) and 4th (Eng) there is are just 4 ranking points between them.

Here are my answers for transparency

1. There is no decline, just 1 poor season mitigated by injuries to key players. We have a small playing pool, and only a few genuine top players, when they get injured there a step down in quality.
2. N/A

3. My take is that you think this is off the cuff flair rugby, behind the back offloads etc.
4. Playing that way without skills or physical attributes required is suicide that this level.
5. We don't have any really, we need to play a structured game where everyone knows their roles. There is not enough space to do otherwise.  If an offload is on it's taken as the both the passer and receiver know about it and are in the right position to do so.

6. You are talking poopie here

7. There is no one better than him
8. Where are in that 4th to 8th in world bracket, any team can beat the other. I see JS being the best man to give us any success.

Pardon me for jumping in, but I think using world rankings in an argument is moot.

Head to head is a much more realistic manner in which to decide where a team is at.

You can move from 4th in the world to 8th in the world during a weekend when you aren't even playing.

Other than that, what does a point, or decimal point really mean?

My argument is that ranking points (regardless of where you find yourself in the ranking order) is merely an indication of form over a period long enough to provide a median.

Head to head over previous three or so meetings (obviously within a shortish time frame) tells me a hell of a lot more than a team being 2 rankings points behind another if they haven't even played the same opponents.

BB I agree

1-3 key players injured by the top 4-8 teams is all you need to swing the match. Rugby is such a physical game that the best teams are the ones that suffer the least injuries. Ireland with a full first XV is for me as good as ENG, WAL, FRA.

Take NZ for instance. Schalk Burger and Richie McCaw have had almost mirror careers as opensides. Both first choices for their entire careers but look at the caps difference.

Burger has been first choice since 2004. Since then SA have played 150 games. Burger has made 83 of those. That's 67 missed games of your x factor player. Sure there were a few games he would have been rested but they would have been max half a dozen so 60 games out injured out of 150.. i.e. he's only been available 60% of the time.

Then look at McCaw. A little older, he's been first choice literally from the 2001 AIs. During that time NZ played 185 matches. McCaw played 148. Again take away the half dozen he would half dozen he has been rested for so say 30 games he wasn't available for.... i.e. he's been available for 84% of the time.

It makes a big diff.

Side according to the42

Ireland (v South Africa):

15. Jared Payne
14. Andrew Trimble
13. Robbie Henshaw
12. Luke Marshall
11. Keith Earls
10. Paddy Jackson
9. Conor Murray

1. Jack McGrath
2. Rory Best (captain)
3. Mike Ross
4. Iain Henderson
5. Devin Toner
6. CJ Stander
7. Jordi Murphy
8. Jamie Heaslip

Replacements:

16. Sean Cronin
17. Finlay Bealham
18. Tadhg Furlong
19. Ultan Dillane
20. Rhys Ruddock
21. Kieran Marmion
22. Ian Madigan
23. Craig Gilroy

just a shame Ireland can't bring a full compliment of players. Rugby needs competitive match ups and what it doesn't need is the "mega powers" doing the usual and gaining easy 3 zip series victories. They may be able to compete respectfully in game 1, maybe in game 2... but I fear game 3 could become a riot if they suffer even more injuries... and with 3 games to the boks who thinks that's NOT likely.

I hope they go for it though. Go out to play high risk rugby and try and snatch a test win. It can be done. I still think a 10-12 flyhalf combo will serve opposition teams best vs. SA (well NZ don't need one but everyone else does).

BamBam wrote:Side according to the42

Ireland (v South Africa):

15. Jared Payne
14. Andrew Trimble
13. Robbie Henshaw
12. Luke Marshall
11. Keith Earls
10. Paddy Jackson
9. Conor Murray

1. Jack McGrath
2. Rory Best (captain)
3. Mike Ross
4. Iain Henderson
5. Devin Toner
6. CJ Stander
7. Jordi Murphy
8. Jamie Heaslip

Replacements:

16. Sean Cronin
17. Finlay Bealham
18. Tadhg Furlong
19. Ultan Dillane
20. Rhys Ruddock
21. Kieran Marmion
22. Ian Madigan
23. Craig Gilroy

They got it spot on

Marmion as the bench 9 is great to see and long overdue, hopefully a good performance from him during the tour to start pressuring Murray and get him speeding up his delivery a bit

Good team, hope they play some good rugby and do us proud. First team Joe has picked in a long time that doesn't leave me scratching my head

South Africa

15 Willie le Roux, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Lionel Mapoe, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Adriaan Strauss (captain), 1 Tendai Mtawarira

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Julian Redelinghuys, 19 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 20 Warren Whiteley, 21 Rudy Paige 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Jesse Kriel

fa0019 wrote:just a shame Ireland can't bring a full compliment of players. Rugby needs competitive match ups and what it doesn't need is the "mega powers" doing the usual and gaining easy 3 zip series victories. They may be able to compete respectfully in game 1, maybe in game 2... but I fear game 3 could become a riot if they suffer even more injuries... and with 3 games to the boks who thinks that's NOT likely.

I hope they go for it though. Go out to play high risk rugby and try and snatch a test win. It can be done. I still think a 10-12 flyhalf combo will serve opposition teams best vs. SA (well NZ don't need one but everyone else does).

Probably against reason, but I think Ireland will be competitive on this tour. I think 1 win should be the minimum expectation against a South Africa team that will be finding it's style, albeit still full of threats.

Definite cause for optimism in the back line, Payne has been flying t 15 when played there for Ulster. Henshaw from 13 is a lot more dangerous threat to gaps in the SA defence, and Luke Marshall has been in very good form. Excited to see Gilroy off then bench against tired legs too.

I'm a little less sure about the pack and in particular Jordi Murphy but the options there were lean after injuries. For me there is still decent enough ball carrying threat in McGrath, Hendo and Heaslip (and Dillane off the bench). Some big players missing, but lets be honest, a lot of them are players that we have either been unable to rely on due to injury (Healy, SOB, POM) or those in decline and coasting on reputation (Kearneys, Fitzgerald).

Some of the new lads or those with something to prove could suprise us if given the chance. A whitewash and we maybe then can start worriyng about decline as some have mentioned.

That looks like a good side and one in which I can understand the selections for a rare change.

Are Bealham and Furlong both tightheads? Joe mustnt have confidence in the other loosies

BamBam wrote:Side according to the42

Ireland (v South Africa):

15. Jared Payne
14. Andrew Trimble
13. Robbie Henshaw
12. Luke Marshall
11. Keith Earls
10. Paddy Jackson
9. Conor Murray

1. Jack McGrath
2. Rory Best (captain)
3. Mike Ross
4. Iain Henderson
5. Devin Toner
6. CJ Stander
7. Jordi Murphy
8. Jamie Heaslip

Replacements:

16. Sean Cronin
17. Finlay Bealham
18. Tadhg Furlong
19. Ultan Dillane
20. Rhys Ruddock
21. Kieran Marmion
22. Ian Madigan
23. Craig Gilroy

Very happy with that team.

Delighted for Marshall. He has fought his way back into the team after some were writing him off, not so long ago, and fully deserves his start.

toml wrote:Are Bealham and Furlong both tightheads? Joe mustnt have confidence in the other loosies

He plays both sides. Came on as LH on his 1 cap so far.

I like that team. Backline looks very good on paper but they'll need to get familiar pretty quickly. 

Murphy didnt have the best season for Leinster this year. Granted he started finding form towards the end of the season but I'd rather Ruddock was starting.  Did someone say TOD was getting married and thats why he is missing? Bet he regrets not picking a later date now. He really could have cemented his place in the squad with SOB and VDF out.

Schmidt must be trying not to anger SA too much with only one Saffa making the team. 

I like that team, one of the best that Schmidt has picked. Shame Olding didn't make the bench ahead of Madigan though.

Golden wrote:Murphy didnt have the best season for Leinster this year. Granted he started finding form towards the end of the season but I'd rather Ruddock was starting.  Did someone say TOD was getting married and thats why he is missing? Bet he regrets not picking a later date now. He really could have cemented his place in the squad with SOB and VDF out.

Was he not one that Joe wanted to get a preseason in and be ready for next year?

marty2086 wrote:

Golden wrote:Murphy didnt have the best season for Leinster this year. Granted he started finding form towards the end of the season but I'd rather Ruddock was starting.  Did someone say TOD was getting married and thats why he is missing? Bet he regrets not picking a later date now. He really could have cemented his place in the squad with SOB and VDF out.

Was he not one that Joe wanted to get a preseason in and be ready for next year?

Oh right. Did i just make that up then? 

So it's an Ulster backline now - they're slowly taking over, mark my words.

Best has slunk into that hooker spot, and now Henderson taking over from Paulie - god rest him and between him an all harm. And that sneaky Gilroy nabbed the 23 shirt as well.

marty2086 wrote:

Golden wrote:Murphy didnt have the best season for Leinster this year. Granted he started finding form towards the end of the season but I'd rather Ruddock was starting.  Did someone say TOD was getting married and thats why he is missing? Bet he regrets not picking a later date now. He really could have cemented his place in the squad with SOB and VDF out.

Was he not one that Joe wanted to get a preseason in and be ready for next year?

No he's getting married and wouldn't be available for all the tests.

Golden wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Golden wrote:Murphy didnt have the best season for Leinster this year. Granted he started finding form towards the end of the season but I'd rather Ruddock was starting.  Did someone say TOD was getting married and thats why he is missing? Bet he regrets not picking a later date now. He really could have cemented his place in the squad with SOB and VDF out.

Was he not one that Joe wanted to get a preseason in and be ready for next year?

Oh right. Did i just make that up then? 

No you were right, guess we know who wears the trousers in that relationship

TOD is getting married on the day of the 3rd test. Think Schmidt should have brought him for the other 2 though.

marty2086 wrote:

Golden wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Golden wrote:Murphy didnt have the best season for Leinster this year. Granted he started finding form towards the end of the season but I'd rather Ruddock was starting.  Did someone say TOD was getting married and thats why he is missing? Bet he regrets not picking a later date now. He really could have cemented his place in the squad with SOB and VDF out.

Was he not one that Joe wanted to get a preseason in and be ready for next year?

Oh right. Did i just make that up then? 

No you were right, guess we know who wears the trousers in that relationship

In fairness, that wedding was probably booked a long time ago. This would be one of the busiest times of the year for weddings and rugby players are really stuck with the month of June. None internationals will be back in training on 1 July.

No that was McCloskey,he is meant to have a few niggling injuries that need to clear up.

That brings me to a point that's a bit off topic but if Schmidt is staying with Ireland then I think he's really targeting beating NZ in the AI's.Every player we have with any sort of injury issue is being sent for surgery now,Sexton played 50 minutes v Connacht with his injury and made an absolute monster tackle to hold up McCartney over the try line so while I obviously don't have any insider knowledge it seems to me he might have been able to manage the injury through this tour.Instead he is getting it sorted straight away so that he'll be ready for the AI's.

Might be wishful thinking but hey ho!

Surely he knew June means tour time. Just book it for July. Priorities like......