The EU Referendum - Thursday 23 June (with voting poll)

First topic message reminder :

Hopefully it will stop the arguments about Gib and we can tell Spain to pee off

We've got an entente cordiale developing here. There's hope yet!

Leave have now promised that EU funding projects for areas including farming, science, and culture would be continued until 2020.

Another promise to add to the list if we Leave.

mikey_dragon wrote:The poorer regions in Wales certainly don't see any of this money? Taxes from England and Wales seem to be going outside the UK, rather than inside it. I think most Brexiters know we also need a change in government (for the love of god labour just elect a good leader) but to be fair to Cameron he has listened to what the populous wanted; he took all of the proposals to EU (where he has to get his permission to spend lunch money ffs) only to have them rejected by Brussels and Merkel. Might this government operate differently outside of the EU?

RDA. Google it.

I thought every penny was going to the NHS?

Coxy001 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:The poorer regions in Wales certainly don't see any of this money? Taxes from England and Wales seem to be going outside the UK, rather than inside it. I think most Brexiters know we also need a change in government (for the love of god labour just elect a good leader) but to be fair to Cameron he has listened to what the populous wanted; he took all of the proposals to EU (where he has to get his permission to spend lunch money ffs) only to have them rejected by Brussels and Merkel. Might this government operate differently outside of the EU?

I can't directly quote which regions it goes to but 'Wales' an an all encompassing entity receives something like £8bn more than it puts in to the EU. Read the figure this morning and am a bit busy to dig it out.

Has this been heavily edited? Otherwise how the hell was it ever reported??!

(admittedly the language isn't very Coxy).

Duty281 wrote:

Hero wrote:It's a cut and paste above but I'm sure Duty will find some others to add in the Leave list like the JCB guy and Right Said Fred.

Other people voting Leave:

Mr. Dyson
John Cleese
Jeremy Corbyn
7 million Tory voters
3.6 million Labour voters
3.8 million UKIP voters
800,000 Lib Dems

Or to put it in a simple way - the majority of this country.

He's been useless, but also very clear on his remain stance.

Coxy001 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:The poorer regions in Wales certainly don't see any of this money? Taxes from England and Wales seem to be going outside the UK, rather than inside it. I think most Brexiters know we also need a change in government (for the love of god labour just elect a good leader) but to be fair to Cameron he has listened to what the populous wanted; he took all of the proposals to EU (where he has to get his permission to spend lunch money ffs) only to have them rejected by Brussels and Merkel. Might this government operate differently outside of the EU?

I can't directly quote which regions it goes to but 'Wales' an an all encompassing entity receives something like £8bn more than it puts in to the EU. Read the figure this morning and am a bit busy to dig it out.

I see your not so classy comment is now gone. Keep on being a good member of Remain brigade why don't you, by being a petty little person hiding behind the anonymity of their keyboard and throwing lies and insults at the opposition. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE for you to attempt to say any of what you did to my face, but I sincerely doubt that you would . If you aren't going to say it in person then why do it on here? Seems irrational.

UK money goes to the EU, Wales gets back SOME of what we put in. I've seen no report to indicate this benefitting Wales, besides that I live here and I can't see where this apparent EU money is helping anyone - most local people I know want out. My home city has fairly recently had a new shopping centre come in aimed it bringing more wealth and prosperity, none of the funding came from the EU. I guess we're just unselfishly thinking of how leaving the EU will benefit future generations . #UKEXIT

The Leave campaign has also accused EU officials of spending taxpayers' money on "outrageous and excessive" expenses. That really is people in glass houses throwing stones (you know of what I speak Mr Farage).

I wonder when they'll guarantee better weather?

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Coxy001 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:The poorer regions in Wales certainly don't see any of this money? Taxes from England and Wales seem to be going outside the UK, rather than inside it. I think most Brexiters know we also need a change in government (for the love of god labour just elect a good leader) but to be fair to Cameron he has listened to what the populous wanted; he took all of the proposals to EU (where he has to get his permission to spend lunch money ffs) only to have them rejected by Brussels and Merkel. Might this government operate differently outside of the EU?

I can't directly quote which regions it goes to but 'Wales' an an all encompassing entity receives something like £8bn more than it puts in to the EU. Read the figure this morning and am a bit busy to dig it out.

Has this been heavily edited? Otherwise how the hell was it ever reported??!

(admittedly the language isn't very Coxy).

I may well have removed a couple of words that weren't particularly complementary.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Hero wrote:It's a cut and paste above but I'm sure Duty will find some others to add in the Leave list like the JCB guy and Right Said Fred.

Other people voting Leave:

Mr. Dyson
John Cleese
Jeremy Corbyn
7 million Tory voters
3.6 million Labour voters
3.8 million UKIP voters
800,000 Lib Dems

Or to put it in a simple way - the majority of this country.

He's been useless, but also very clear on his remain stance.

You missed the bit afterwards when he said he was joking. It was a funny joke.

Duty281 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Could it possibly be that the list of authoritative voices voting Leave is rather on the thin side??

It was a joke, my dear fellow.

Who cares about 'authoritative voices' - people should be capable of thinking for themselves and arriving at their own conclusion.

Translation: I lied as I have no basis to sustain my position and was hopelessly exposed so now just trying to 'laugh it off' as a joke.....ha...ha...ha...

TopHat24/7 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:The poorer regions in Wales certainly don't see any of this money? Taxes from England and Wales seem to be going outside the UK, rather than inside it. I think most Brexiters know we also need a change in government (for the love of god labour just elect a good leader) but to be fair to Cameron he has listened to what the populous wanted; he took all of the proposals to EU (where he has to get his permission to spend lunch money ffs) only to have them rejected by Brussels and Merkel. Might this government operate differently outside of the EU?

RDA. Google it.

Top result = http://www.rda.org.uk/ - ummmm.....

mikey_dragon wrote:

Coxy001 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:The poorer regions in Wales certainly don't see any of this money? Taxes from England and Wales seem to be going outside the UK, rather than inside it. I think most Brexiters know we also need a change in government (for the love of god labour just elect a good leader) but to be fair to Cameron he has listened to what the populous wanted; he took all of the proposals to EU (where he has to get his permission to spend lunch money ffs) only to have them rejected by Brussels and Merkel. Might this government operate differently outside of the EU?

I can't directly quote which regions it goes to but 'Wales' an an all encompassing entity receives something like £8bn more than it puts in to the EU. Read the figure this morning and am a bit busy to dig it out.

I see your not so classy comment is now gone. Keep on being a good member of Remain brigade why don't you, by being a petty little person hiding behind the anonymity of their keyboard and throwing lies and insults at the opposition. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE for you to attempt to say any of what you did to my face, but I sincerely doubt that you would . If you aren't going to say it in person then why do it on here? Seems irrational.

UK money goes to the EU, Wales gets back SOME of what we put in. I've seen no report to indicate this benefitting Wales, besides that I live here and I can't see where this apparent EU money is helping anyone - most local people I know want out. My home city has fairly recently had a new shopping centre come in aimed it bringing more wealth and prosperity, none of the funding came from the EU. I guess we're just unselfishly thinking of how leaving the EU will benefit future generations . #UKEXIT

Let's put it another way. When talking about the 'poorer regions of Wales', literally nothing monetary comes out of there. Therefore basically everything you can see is funded from external sources, whether EU or rUK.

https://fullfact.org/europe/wales-getting-best-deal-out-eu/

Wales pays in 630m per year to the EU
Wales gets out 653-747m per year from the EU.


Straight up fact and evidence for you there Mikey, I await the 'oh I was wrong'.

mikey_dragon wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:The poorer regions in Wales certainly don't see any of this money? Taxes from England and Wales seem to be going outside the UK, rather than inside it. I think most Brexiters know we also need a change in government (for the love of god labour just elect a good leader) but to be fair to Cameron he has listened to what the populous wanted; he took all of the proposals to EU (where he has to get his permission to spend lunch money ffs) only to have them rejected by Brussels and Merkel. Might this government operate differently outside of the EU?

RDA. Google it.

Top result = http://www.rda.org.uk/ - ummmm.....

Regional Development Aid, try again.

And CAP, whilst you're at it, unless you're going to claim a land synonymous with sheep farming actually has no farming industry....

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Could it possibly be that the list of authoritative voices voting Leave is rather on the thin side??

It was a joke, my dear fellow.

Who cares about 'authoritative voices' - people should be capable of thinking for themselves and arriving at their own conclusion.

Translation: I lied as I have no basis to sustain my position and was hopelessly exposed so now just trying to 'laugh it off' as a joke.....ha...ha...ha...

He watches the news and it's been mentioned on here so I'm pretty sure that he knew. Wasn't there a time when Corbyn did want out of the EU though?

Duty281 wrote:Home-grown psycho motivated by Islam in this wonderful time of Ramadan*

For the sake of accuracy, you understand.

It appears much more clear that he was actually a frustrated closeted homosexual who exploded and benefitted from lax US gun laws.

Ergo, sod all to do with either immigration is Islam.  Though as a Brexiteer UKIP mouthpiece I appreciate is is fundamental ( ) to you to suggest otherwise.

http://gov.wales/funding/eu-funds/?lang=en

https://fullfact.org/europe/wales-getting-best-deal-out-eu/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36361530

You can't have looked very hard, financial net gain and then all the other advantages of the single market etc. Pretty sweet deal if you ask me.

Hero wrote:https://fullfact.org/europe/wales-getting-best-deal-out-eu/

Wales pays in 630m per year to the EU
Wales gets out 653-747m per year from the EU.


Straight up fact and evidence for you there Mikey, I await the 'oh I was wrong'.

Cheers mate, I'll take a look at it.

No, why would you get that from me? Where previously have I said you're wrong?

Here's another idea, try living in Wales for most of your life and see if this benefits you.

How can 100s of millions of investment into farming and structural projects whilst having access to the single market not be of benefit?

Genuine question, is there some sort of Eu legislation hamstringing Wales and not the rest of the U.K.?

Because you'd stated:

UK money goes to the EU, Wales gets back SOME of what we put in. I've seen no report to indicate this benefitting Wales, besides that I live here and I can't see where this apparent EU money is helping anyone - most local people I know want out. My home city has fairly recently had a new shopping centre come in aimed it bringing more wealth and prosperity, none of the funding came from the EU. I guess we're just unselfishly thinking of how leaving the EU will benefit future generations . #UKEXIT

Wales doesn't get back 'some', it gets back 'more'.

You were wrong, therefore you could state 'oh I was wrong'.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:The poorer regions in Wales certainly don't see any of this money? Taxes from England and Wales seem to be going outside the UK, rather than inside it. I think most Brexiters know we also need a change in government (for the love of god labour just elect a good leader) but to be fair to Cameron he has listened to what the populous wanted; he took all of the proposals to EU (where he has to get his permission to spend lunch money ffs) only to have them rejected by Brussels and Merkel. Might this government operate differently outside of the EU?

RDA. Google it.

Top result = http://www.rda.org.uk/ - ummmm.....

Regional Development Aid, try again.

And CAP, whilst you're at it, unless you're going to claim a land synonymous with sheep farming actually has no farming industry....

I seen it a but further down the list. I was trying to be funny - class idea this rda though, I think I'll donate.

Not claiming anything of the sort. Funny your view is at odds with the farmers here who will be voting out.

mikey_dragon wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Could it possibly be that the list of authoritative voices voting Leave is rather on the thin side??

It was a joke, my dear fellow.

Who cares about 'authoritative voices' - people should be capable of thinking for themselves and arriving at their own conclusion.

Translation: I lied as I have no basis to sustain my position and was hopelessly exposed so now just trying to 'laugh it off' as a joke.....ha...ha...ha...

He watches the news and it's been mentioned on here so I'm pretty sure that he knew. Wasn't there a time when Corbyn did want out of the EU though?

Probably. Back in 1975 Tony Benn, Enoch Powell (of "rivers of blood" fame) and the left flank of Labour voted against the EU, and Corbyn was no doubt part of that. I wonder why he now thinks differently? The EU must have done something right.....

My home city has fairly recently had a new shopping centre come in aimed it bringing more wealth and prosperity

Yeah good luck with that in the age of Amazon and internet shopping, did they sign the paperwork off on a fax machine?

All the farming unions back remain...

Dave Prentice, the general secretary of Unison, is up next. He says the EU vote is "the biggest decision in a generation".
He says the people on lowest incomes will suffer the most if we vote to leave and adds he doesn't call for a remain vote lightly.
He says union members called for him to campaign to remain because the health service is already at "breaking point" and "we cannot risk the economic shock and the political turmoil of walking away".
"I don't think I've ever seen a national campaign so deceitful as the one being waged by the leave campaign", he adds.
Mr Prentice says the leave campaign have made "not one single guarantee" that the NHS will be protected and warns the Boris and Gove are "the very people we have been fighting against".
He calls the leave campaign's claims about the NHS "a dangerous lie" and accuses them of using the health service to lie to people and convince them to back a Brexit.
"See through the lies," he adds.

Hero wrote:Because you'd stated:

UK money goes to the EU, Wales gets back SOME of what we put in. I've seen no report to indicate this benefitting Wales, besides that I live here and I can't see where this apparent EU money is helping anyone - most local people I know want out. My home city has fairly recently had a new shopping centre come in aimed it bringing more wealth and prosperity, none of the funding came from the EU. I guess we're just unselfishly thinking of how leaving the EU will benefit future generations . #UKEXIT

Wales doesn't get back 'some', it gets back 'more'.

You were wrong, therefore you could state 'oh I was wrong'.

So you were replying to that. Yes I can see now where it suggests that Wales apparently gets more back, but the UK gets back less than it gives out, which is also stated in the link you gave me. It was said that the poorer regions of the UK are benefitting from the EU. Despite the report I don't see where it's benefitting poorer regions in Wales and that's what I asked? My city needed it but the money that has recently gone into our infrastructure did not come from the EU. The same link also states:

No official figure exists for the overall investment that Wales receives from the EU, since funding is calculated on a UK-basis and Wales benefits from a number of multinational programmes which are difficult to quantify by country.

And

Still, the true figure could be outside this range since there's no exhaustive list available of the funding that Wales receives from the EU...

But measuring the relative financial costs and benefits of the EU to Wales is still subject to estimations and assumptions on both sides. It's difficult, for instance, to assign funding precisely at a regional level. Asking whether Wales is a net beneficiary from Europe as a general question which extends beyond financial gains can't be answered well from these estimates alone.

Frances O Grady says the risks of a vote to leave the EU are "all too clear" and warns of a "hard right Tory Government out to privatise healthcare".
She warns of the longest hospital waiting lists ever know if the UK backs a Brexit because of the lack of staff from the EU who fill "crucial skills gaps".
She warns the Leave campaign is "trying to turn people against each other" which is "the oldest and dirtiest trick in the book".
Ms O Grady says Leave campaigners love the NHS"like Dracula loves a blood bank" and highlights claims made by Michael Gove and Boris Johnson about the NHS - most suggesting it could be privatised.
She adds that Nigel Farage wants to replace the health service with private health insurance and calls the leave campaign "fibbers, fakes and phoneys" when it comes to the NHS.
"If we came out of the EU these men would sign up to secret trade deals like a shot ... We wouldn't even have a chance to change them."
She says she was "gobsmacked" by claims that the NHS could have more funding outside the union
Because it is simply not true.

The Sandal Bomber wrote:...

Corbyn is ambiguous. Someone said corbyn was the leader of the meh faction on Europe and I think that was kinda spot on.

...

I think a lot of potential voters fall a bit into this camp as well - probably end up voting to remain but rather through gritted teeth as there are definitely flaws within the EU (lack of accountability and something of a 'tin ear' regarding the general population of Europe and 'ever greater union'), but what we lose by leaving is likely in at least the short and medium term to be much greater than any of the suggested gains in the longer term.

Ent wrote:All the farming unions back remain...

Don't they realise that the Leave campaign is going to match all the EU funding post-Leave vote? They also don't need to worry about losing workforce due to borders being closed, because there are loads of British people who are fed up of foreigners stealing their jobs, and who will gladly fill the breach.

These farming unions have simply been duped by Project Fear. Everything will be great if we Leave. They should BeLeave in Britain. In fact every farmer and each member of his family will be £428.62p better off if we Leave. I'm sorry old bean, but actually, quite frankly, that's a FACT.....dear chap.

It's actually quite fun saying silly things. I should leave my party and join UKIP.

mikey_dragon wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:The poorer regions in Wales certainly don't see any of this money? Taxes from England and Wales seem to be going outside the UK, rather than inside it. I think most Brexiters know we also need a change in government (for the love of god labour just elect a good leader) but to be fair to Cameron he has listened to what the populous wanted; he took all of the proposals to EU (where he has to get his permission to spend lunch money ffs) only to have them rejected by Brussels and Merkel. Might this government operate differently outside of the EU?

RDA. Google it.

Top result = http://www.rda.org.uk/ - ummmm.....

Regional Development Aid, try again.

And CAP, whilst you're at it, unless you're going to claim a land synonymous with sheep farming actually has no farming industry....

I seen it a but further down the list. I was trying to be funny - class idea this rda though, I think I'll donate.

Not claiming anything of the sort. Funny your view is at odds with the farmers here who will be voting out.

Then the farmers are idiots. Possibly the stupidest thing a farmer could ever do given that the EU bails out their failing industry every year.

Unless they're taking a massive punt on, funnily enough, LEAVE's BS £350m claim still being proportionately spent on farming subsidies.

Hero wrote:Dave Prentice, the general secretary of Unison, is up next. He says the EU vote is "the biggest decision in a generation".
He says the people on lowest incomes will suffer the most if we vote to leave and adds he doesn't call for a remain vote lightly.
He says union members called for him to campaign to remain because the health service is already at "breaking point" and "we cannot risk the economic shock and the political turmoil of walking away".
"I don't think I've ever seen a national campaign so deceitful as the one being waged by the leave campaign", he adds.
Mr Prentice says the leave campaign have made "not one single guarantee" that the NHS will be protected and warns the Boris and Gove are "the very people we have been fighting against".
He calls the leave campaign's claims about the NHS "a dangerous lie" and accuses them of using the health service to lie to people and convince them to back a Brexit.
"See through the lies," he adds.

So basically lots of people that don't like each other and have opposing interests.......all back Remain.

Hero wrote:

My home city has fairly recently had a new shopping centre come in aimed it bringing more wealth and prosperity

Yeah good luck with that in the age of Amazon and internet shopping, did they sign the paperwork off on a fax machine?

Is every shopping centre around the world due to close down then? Bristol, Birmingham, London, Cardiff, all doomed I take it? You haven't been here to see the difference it's made so shut up .

FYI - If the shopping centre was full of DVD stores you might actually have a point, but there's a lot more there.

VOTE IN.

Hero wrote:Frances O Grady says the risks of a vote to leave the EU are "all too clear" and warns of a "hard right Tory Government out to privatise healthcare".
She warns of the longest hospital waiting lists ever know if the UK backs a Brexit because of the lack of staff from the EU who fill "crucial skills gaps".
She warns the Leave campaign is "trying to turn people against each other" which is "the oldest and dirtiest trick in the book".
Ms O Grady says Leave campaigners love the NHS"like Dracula loves a blood bank" and highlights claims made by Michael Gove and Boris Johnson about the NHS - most suggesting it could be privatised.
She adds that Nigel Farage wants to replace the health service with private health insurance and calls the leave campaign "fibbers, fakes and phoneys" when it comes to the NHS.
"If we came out of the EU these men would sign up to secret trade deals like a shot ... We wouldn't even have a chance to change them."
She says she was "gobsmacked" by claims that the NHS could have more funding outside the union
Because it is simply not true.

Shock horror, the general secretary of an organisation which receives a great deal of funding from the EU supports Remain.

Hero wrote:Dave Prentice, the general secretary of Unison, is up next. He says the EU vote is "the biggest decision in a generation".
He says the people on lowest incomes will suffer the most if we vote to leave and adds he doesn't call for a remain vote lightly.
He says union members called for him to campaign to remain because the health service is already at "breaking point" and "we cannot risk the economic shock and the political turmoil of walking away".
"I don't think I've ever seen a national campaign so deceitful as the one being waged by the leave campaign", he adds.
Mr Prentice says the leave campaign have made "not one single guarantee" that the NHS will be protected and warns the Boris and Gove are "the very people we have been fighting against".
He calls the leave campaign's claims about the NHS "a dangerous lie" and accuses them of using the health service to lie to people and convince them to back a Brexit.
"See through the lies," he adds.

Shock horror, the general secretary of an organisation which receives a great deal of funding from the EU supports Remain.

If only everyone who benefitted from the EU would vote Remain......

funnyExiledScot wrote:If only everyone who benefitted from the EU would vote Remain......

But there is no benefit to the EU. And people realise that.

Which is why Leave is winning, and shall be victorious.

Duty281 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:If only everyone who benefitted from the EU would vote Remain......

But there is no benefit to the EU. And people realise that.

Which is why Leave is winning, and shall be victorious.

That's good to know. I'll still vote anyway, just in case.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:If only everyone who benefitted from the EU would vote Remain......

But there is no benefit to the EU. And people realise that.

Which is why Leave is winning, and shall be victorious.

That's good to know. I'll still vote anyway, just in case.

You do that, my dear fellow.

May I suggest you partake of the 6/4 currently on offer for Leave, so when the inevitable victory occurs, you shall not be too disappointed?

Duty281 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:If only everyone who benefitted from the EU would vote Remain......

But there is no benefit to the EU. And people realise that.

Which is why Leave is winning, and shall be victorious.

That's good to know. I'll still vote anyway, just in case.

You do that, my dear fellow.

May I suggest you partake of the 6/4 currently on offer for Leave, so when the inevitable victory occurs, you shall not be too disappointed?

Thanks for the tip - I do like a "disappointment hedge". Maybe this is how Leave are going to fund all these promises, they put money on themselves winning 6 months ago??

Actually the smarter money will be to wait a week and put money on Remain.

Well I got on Leave while the going was good (£2,000 at 9/2).

I'm disappointed that Mr. Farage is only half as confident as I am.

Duty281 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:If only everyone who benefitted from the EU would vote Remain......

But there is no benefit to the EU. And people realise that.

Which is why Leave is winning, and shall be victorious.

That is a fairly ambitious statement. For starters you've only got to look at a few of the environmental issues - air quality, beach quality, water quality, landfill/recycling.  To be saying that none of the improvements brought about by EU requirements in this area are of any benefit whatsoever smacks of a very, very short term view.

Duty281 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:If only everyone who benefitted from the EU would vote Remain......

But there is no benefit to the EU. And people realise that.

Which is why Leave is winning, and shall be victorious.

Regardless of whichever way the vote goes, that's a ridiculously stupid statement.  I don't dispute that you genuinely believe that, on balance, 'Leave' is the best option (and who knows you may prove to be correct) but I don't think that you genuinely believe that there are no benefits to the EU.

There are no benefits to the EU for the obvious reason - anything that they have done could have been achieved by our own government.

They've robbed us of our sovereign Parliament, but in return we get cleaner beaches - so amazing.

Duty281 wrote:Well I got on Leave while the going was good (£2,000 at 9/2).

IQ in the top 2% of the country, £2,000 to chuck around on Referendums!

I want to be just like you when I grow up.

01110010 01100101 01100110 01100101 01110010 01100101 01101110 01100100 01100001 00100000 01110010 01100101 01100100 01110101 01100011 01100101 00100000 01110101 01110011 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01100010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 01111001 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01101011 01101001 01101110 01100111

Nothing makes me more depressed than seeing someone wasting their youth worrying about parliamentary sovereignty.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Well I got on Leave while the going was good (£2,000 at 9/2).

IQ in the top 2% of the country, £2,000 to chuck around on Referendums!

I want to be just like you when I grow up.

I am an inspiration to everyone, especially to the folk on this forum who, I know, love me immensely.

Mind you, with no broad responsibilities (except to myself) and a fairly minimalist outlook, I can afford to lose £2,000 if, somehow, the worst comes to pass.

superflyweight wrote:Nothing makes me more depressed than seeing someone wasting their youth worrying about parliamentary sovereignty.  

20 is not youthful, I am tremendously aged.