The EU Referendum - Thursday 23 June (with voting poll)

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Hopefully it will stop the arguments about Gib and we can tell Spain to pee off

One of the things I found interesting the other day and something I'd not considered before was the benefit to the rest of the EU it is to have the UK at the table in regards to animal welfare. Without us leading the standards of animal treatment then a lot of countries will slip on welfare.

So Mikey, now that Dolph has shown that the Leave campaign has been down right disgusting in what is little more than blatant xenophobia does that change your mind somewhat?

Why should he? His recent posts indicate that he sees negative economic forecasts as a greater evil than overt social racism. That goes towards most Leave voters.

Why though? I've seen the same from remain campaign, and still seeing the same lies and scapegoating on here. It's boring. This thread has been ruined by two moderators.

I think in the future, if politicians have deemed an issue too important for themselves to decide the outcome as our elected representative, then they should also have to withdraw from offering an opinion on it too.

Both campaigns have been nothing but a joke. British Politics at its very worst. I stopped listening to either by about Day 3. I don't think either camp can claim any moral high ground whatsoever. Ugly stuff

What the UK spends its money on

mikey_dragon wrote:Why though? I've seen the same from remain campaign, and still seeing the same lies and scapegoating on here. It's boring. This thread has been ruined by two moderators.

You've seen the same from the Remain campaign?
Oh please provide examples of xenophobia from the left wing papers, this'll be good.

I've already posted one just over 5 mins ago, you must have scrolled past it? You must have also missed the sense of irony in my post. Anyway I don't wish to stay on here today to engage in petty point scoring, I'd rather go out... But I'll be around in the week to read what the adults have to say on the EU referendum. Try and refrain from ruining this thread further at least for their sake .

mikey_dragon wrote:I've already posted one just over 5 mins ago, you must have scrolled past it? You must have also missed the sense of irony in my post. Anyway I don't wish to stay on here today to engage in petty point scoring, I'd rather go out... But I'll be around in the week to read what the adults have to say on the EU referendum. Try and refrain from ruining this thread further at least for their sake .

How was that xenophobic? Do you understand what xenophobia is? It wasn't particularly smart but it certainly isn't xenophobic.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Where does all the hate come from?

Damn right. Islam is such a beautiful religion, why can't we let it be?

We're all very much aware of your love of Islam Duty.

Hero wrote:We're all very much aware of your love of Islam Duty.

And I'm very much aware of how much Islam loves me, so we have a beautiful, reciprocal relationship.

Knowsit17 wrote:Why should he? His recent posts indicate that he sees negative economic forecasts as a greater evil than overt social racism. That goes towards most Leave voters.

I liked your earlier post on how both sides have been guilty of extreme and ridiculous language, however, you are just as guilty with your above comment. You are implying that a vote to leave is a vote for racism. Those that vote to leave are no more likely to be racist than those that vote to remain. Immigration is a hot issue, and isn't one that is detached from from the debate on the economy. Both sides of the debate have agreed that the EU open door policy does disadvantage Britains working class. There are also many in both Germany and France taking issue with the open door policy and likely a key issue for both in their forthcoming elections.
Those advocating to leave are not against immigration. They are against immigration without control. As someone who will vote to remain I believe they have a point and it is an issue that must be resolved within the EU.

Hero wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:I've already posted one just over 5 mins ago, you must have scrolled past it? You must have also missed the sense of irony in my post. Anyway I don't wish to stay on here today to engage in petty point scoring, I'd rather go out... But I'll be around in the week to read what the adults have to say on the EU referendum. Try and refrain from ruining this thread further at least for their sake .

How was that xenophobic? Do you understand what xenophobia is? It wasn't particularly smart but it certainly isn't xenophobic.

Well, I saw this the other day:

https://twitter.com/Vote_LeaveMedia/status/742681424373768192

Not that you really need examples. Voting Remain continues the same immigration policy - discriminatory towards Non-EU nationals - whereas voting Leave will give us a fair and balanced policy.

Munchkin wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:Why should he? His recent posts indicate that he sees negative economic forecasts as a greater evil than overt social racism. That goes towards most Leave voters.

I liked your earlier post on how both sides have been guilty of extreme and ridiculous language, however, you are just as guilty with your above comment. You are implying that a vote to leave is a vote for racism. Those that vote to leave are no more likely to be racist than those that vote to remain. Immigration is a hot issue, and isn't one that detached from from the debate on the economy. Both sides of the debate have agreed that the EU open door policy does disadvantage Britains working class. There are also many in both Germany and France taking issue with the open door policy and likely a key issue for both in their forthcoming elections.
Those advocating to leave are not against immigration. They are against immigration without control. As someone who will vote to remain I believe they have a point and it is an issue that must be resolved within the EU.

Dennis Skinner is another well-known racist who came out for Leave the other day.

He blacked-up everytime he came out of the mines, horrible individual.

Hero wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:I've already posted one just over 5 mins ago, you must have scrolled past it? You must have also missed the sense of irony in my post. Anyway I don't wish to stay on here today to engage in petty point scoring, I'd rather go out... But I'll be around in the week to read what the adults have to say on the EU referendum. Try and refrain from ruining this thread further at least for their sake .

How was that xenophobic? Do you understand what xenophobia is? It wasn't particularly smart but it certainly isn't xenophobic.

I do know what it means, so it's a strange question. So that makes it okay then? Spokespeople for leave have already stated that they're pro-immigration, but have also suggested that it be more regulated. Trying to align the Leave campaign with idiots like BNP and BF is more desperation from the Remain camp.

Munchkin, you're from NI? I always thought you were a Munster fan from ROI... Lol.

mikey_dragon wrote:Munchkin, you're from NI? I always thought you were a Munster fan from ROI... Lol.

No, I'm a blessed Ulster man and fan

From norn iron.

Munchkin wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:Why should he? His recent posts indicate that he sees negative economic forecasts as a greater evil than overt social racism. That goes towards most Leave voters.

I liked your earlier post on how both sides have been guilty of extreme and ridiculous language, however, you are just as guilty with your above comment. You are implying that a vote to leave is a vote for racism. Those that vote to leave are no more likely to be racist than those that vote to remain. Immigration is a hot issue, and isn't one that detached from from the debate on the economy. Both sides of the debate have agreed that the EU open door policy does disadvantage Britains working class. There are also many in both Germany and France taking issue with the open door policy and likely a key issue for both in their forthcoming elections.
Those advocating to leave are not against immigration. They are against immigration without control. As someone who will vote to remain I believe they have a point and it is an issue that must be resolved within the EU.

To clarify, I wasn't saying all Leave voters are racists. My comment was directed more at the legions who slate the Remain side like there's no tomorrow while brazenly ignoring the very, very worrying features of the Leave campaign and the kind of supporters they're relying on. As for immigration, you can have objections to an open-door policy without being racist. Immigration wasn't really what I was talking about.

End of the day the Leave campaign is a great outlet for racial supremacists who are no longer able to express their ideologies in the ways of the 30's. And the likes of Boris and Nige are happy to accept these kinds of views without so much as acknowledging the kind of outdated ignorance which is partially fuelling their drive. Even Boris, whom I previously expected to be the least racially inflaming individual on VL, can't stop himself from focusing on Obama's Kenyan ethnicity when the latter so much as offers a criticism.

I stand by my previous comments that both sides are full of clowns out to mislead people but then when I vote it won't be a vote for Dave or Nige, it'll be a vote derived from my independent views.

The fall back of the idiot is to accuse leave voters of racism, pitiful.

The point remains: not all leave voters are racists, but all racists will vote leave. Equally, older people seem more likely to vote leave and then aggressive types similar.

You then have the Mail, the Express and the Sun saying leave. With Gove, Johnson, Trump, Farage, Mensch as your big political voices.

The ideologies and reasoning of the two don't compare well to me. One seems aspirational, the other small. The fact neither group can give you reasonable (in the eyes of their opponents) views of what Leave will do is another sign that it is a blind, guesswork policy.

That this has been left to the public is insane really. If governments didn't take the big decisions for people then we would have seen slavery exist in America longer and women struggle to get the vote longer.

There'll be people voting Leave who chastised the Scottish for wanting independence.

Knowsit17 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:Why should he? His recent posts indicate that he sees negative economic forecasts as a greater evil than overt social racism. That goes towards most Leave voters.

I liked your earlier post on how both sides have been guilty of extreme and ridiculous language, however, you are just as guilty with your above comment. You are implying that a vote to leave is a vote for racism. Those that vote to leave are no more likely to be racist than those that vote to remain. Immigration is a hot issue, and isn't one that detached from from the debate on the economy. Both sides of the debate have agreed that the EU open door policy does disadvantage Britains working class. There are also many in both Germany and France taking issue with the open door policy and likely a key issue for both in their forthcoming elections.
Those advocating to leave are not against immigration. They are against immigration without control. As someone who will vote to remain I believe they have a point and it is an issue that must be resolved within the EU.

To clarify, I wasn't saying all Leave voters are racists. My comment was directed more at the legions who slate the Remain side like there's no tomorrow while brazenly ignoring the very, very worrying features of the Leave campaign and the kind of supporters they're relying on. As for immigration, you can have objections to an open-door policy without being racist. Immigration wasn't really what I was talking about.

End of the day the Leave campaign is a great outlet for racial supremacists who are no longer able to express their ideologies in the ways of the 30's. And the likes of Boris and Nige are happy to accept these kinds of views without so much as acknowledging the kind of outdated ignorance which is partially fuelling their drive. Even Boris, whom I previously expected to be the least racially inflaming individual on VL, can't stop himself from focusing on Obama's Kenyan ethnicity when the latter so much as offers a criticism.

I stand by my previous comments that both sides are full of clowns out to mislead people but then when I vote it won't be a vote for Dave or Nige, it'll be a vote derived from my independent views.

What kind of supporters do they rely on? It would be the height of nonsense to suggest that Brexit rely on racists/racial supremacists. There will be bad characters on both sides of this debate, each with their own agendas, but their numbers will be so few as to not sway the poll either way. The vast majority will vote according to their own reasonable, personal convictions.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The point remains: not all leave voters are racists, but all racists will vote leave. Equally, older people seem more likely to vote leave and then aggressive types similar.

You then have the Mail, the Express and the Sun saying leave. With Gove, Johnson, Trump, Farage, Mensch as your big political voices.

The ideologies and reasoning of the two don't compare well to me. One seems aspirational, the other small. The fact neither group can give you reasonable (in the eyes of their opponents) views of what Leave will do is another sign that it is a blind, guesswork policy.

That this has been left to the public is insane really. If governments didn't take the big decisions for people then we would have seen slavery exist in America longer and women struggle to get the vote longer.

There'll be people voting Leave who chastised the Scottish for wanting independence.

Nice soundbite, and sad attempt at demonising those that wish to leave. It's pathetic really.

"Not all Remain voters are Fat Cats, but all Fat Cats will vote Remain"....

There is a huge element of racism within the leave campaign, lets not kid ourselves.

This fair immigration is dressing it up to avoid the accusation, eu migrants make a huge contribution to our society as was discussed several pages ago with various economic studies referenced.

The leave campaign just doesn't add up in any way, it's all nonsense as evidenced by this thread.

My favourite argument for leave was to restore British sovereignty and hand all power to a government who is threatening me with trade war and actual war.

Just such complete and utter cowpat.

Munchkin wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The point remains: not all leave voters are racists, but all racists will vote leave. Equally, older people seem more likely to vote leave and then aggressive types similar.

You then have the Mail, the Express and the Sun saying leave. With Gove, Johnson, Trump, Farage, Mensch as your big political voices.

The ideologies and reasoning of the two don't compare well to me. One seems aspirational, the other small. The fact neither group can give you reasonable (in the eyes of their opponents) views of what Leave will do is another sign that it is a blind, guesswork policy.

That this has been left to the public is insane really. If governments didn't take the big decisions for people then we would have seen slavery exist in America longer and women struggle to get the vote longer.

There'll be people voting Leave who chastised the Scottish for wanting independence.

Nice soundbite, and sad attempt at demonising those that wish to leave. It's pathetic really.

"Not all Remain voters are Fat Cats, but all Fat Cats will vote Remain"....

Well that's not true as (as people love pointing out) jcb and dyson are pro leave.

Try a bit harder.

'Not all Remain voters are mass-murdering warmongers, but all mass-murdering warmongers will vote Remain'

Contradicted yourself there.

Superb stuff.

Oops, haha!

The best part being that you can't defend the valid point so you're deflecting.

It's actually somewhat of a defence really. It's accepting that, no, voting leave isn't just for racists. I'd expect however that the most bigoted people of society will vote Leave. That bothers me immensely, I would not want to stand alongside the xenophobes, racists, homophobes and anti-semites.

But that's also inflammatory and unfair to the whole campaign, it's just sad that the leaders of the campaign are generally those things.

Ent wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The point remains: not all leave voters are racists, but all racists will vote leave. Equally, older people seem more likely to vote leave and then aggressive types similar.

You then have the Mail, the Express and the Sun saying leave. With Gove, Johnson, Trump, Farage, Mensch as your big political voices.

The ideologies and reasoning of the two don't compare well to me. One seems aspirational, the other small. The fact neither group can give you reasonable (in the eyes of their opponents) views of what Leave will do is another sign that it is a blind, guesswork policy.

That this has been left to the public is insane really. If governments didn't take the big decisions for people then we would have seen slavery exist in America longer and women struggle to get the vote longer.

There'll be people voting Leave who chastised the Scottish for wanting independence.

Nice soundbite, and sad attempt at demonising those that wish to leave. It's pathetic really.

"Not all Remain voters are Fat Cats, but all Fat Cats will vote Remain"....

Well that's not true as (as people love pointing out) jcb and dyson are pro leave.

Try a bit harder.

I would think the majority of Fat Cats (FTSE 100) wish to remain in the EU as the EU open door policy drives wages down but, for goodness sake, I threw it in there to show how it's nothing more than an attempt to attack the character of a movement.

It's a large part of the campaign Dolph.

Immigrants take out jobs and over load our public services.
Immigrants drive wages down.
The eu makes our laws.
The eu takes your money.

All rubbish but easy messages and people who don't (and can't be arsed to learn) any better take it in and go with leave.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The best part being that you can't defend the valid point so you're deflecting.

It's actually somewhat of a defence really. It's accepting that, no, voting leave isn't just for racists. I'd expect however that the most bigoted people of society will vote Leave. That bothers me immensely, I would not want to stand alongside the xenophobes, racists, homophobes and anti-semites.

But that's also inflammatory and unfair to the whole campaign, it's just sad that the leaders of the campaign are generally those things.

Except it's not a valid point, it's one made to hide the fact that there are no benefits to being in the EU.

This referendum isn't about 'race', or skin colour, or sexuality, or religion.

It's simply about who governs this country.

Ent wrote:It's a large part of the campaign Dolph.

Immigrants take out jobs and over load our public services.
Immigrants drive wages down.
The eu makes our laws.
The eu takes your money.

All rubbish but easy messages and people who don't (and can't be arsed to learn) any better take it in and go with leave.

Are you denying that the EU makes some of our laws?!

Ent wrote:It's a large part of the campaign Dolph.

Immigrants take out jobs and over load our public services.
Immigrants drive wages down.
The eu makes our laws.
The eu takes your money.

All rubbish but easy messages and people who don't (and can't be arsed to learn) any better take it in and go with leave.

It isn't rubbish. The open doors policy drives wages down.

How so, please enlighten me.

Munchkin wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:Why should he? His recent posts indicate that he sees negative economic forecasts as a greater evil than overt social racism. That goes towards most Leave voters.

I liked your earlier post on how both sides have been guilty of extreme and ridiculous language, however, you are just as guilty with your above comment. You are implying that a vote to leave is a vote for racism. Those that vote to leave are no more likely to be racist than those that vote to remain. Immigration is a hot issue, and isn't one that detached from from the debate on the economy. Both sides of the debate have agreed that the EU open door policy does disadvantage Britains working class. There are also many in both Germany and France taking issue with the open door policy and likely a key issue for both in their forthcoming elections.
Those advocating to leave are not against immigration. They are against immigration without control. As someone who will vote to remain I believe they have a point and it is an issue that must be resolved within the EU.

To clarify, I wasn't saying all Leave voters are racists. My comment was directed more at the legions who slate the Remain side like there's no tomorrow while brazenly ignoring the very, very worrying features of the Leave campaign and the kind of supporters they're relying on. As for immigration, you can have objections to an open-door policy without being racist. Immigration wasn't really what I was talking about.

End of the day the Leave campaign is a great outlet for racial supremacists who are no longer able to express their ideologies in the ways of the 30's. And the likes of Boris and Nige are happy to accept these kinds of views without so much as acknowledging the kind of outdated ignorance which is partially fuelling their drive. Even Boris, whom I previously expected to be the least racially inflaming individual on VL, can't stop himself from focusing on Obama's Kenyan ethnicity when the latter so much as offers a criticism.

I stand by my previous comments that both sides are full of clowns out to mislead people but then when I vote it won't be a vote for Dave or Nige, it'll be a vote derived from my independent views.

What kind of supporters do they rely on? It would be the height of nonsense to suggest that Brexit rely on racists/racial supremacists. There will be bad characters on both sides of this debate, each with their own agendas, but their numbers will be so few as to not sway the poll either way. The vast majority will vote according to their own reasonable, personal convictions.

Well Britain First has over 1m Facebook followers, I imagine every single one of them is voting Leave.

Duty281 wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The best part being that you can't defend the valid point so you're deflecting.

It's actually somewhat of a defence really. It's accepting that, no, voting leave isn't just for racists. I'd expect however that the most bigoted people of society will vote Leave. That bothers me immensely, I would not want to stand alongside the xenophobes, racists, homophobes and anti-semites.

But that's also inflammatory and unfair to the whole campaign, it's just sad that the leaders of the campaign are generally those things.

Except it's not a valid point, it's one made to hide the fact that there are no benefits to being in the EU.

This referendum isn't about 'race', or skin colour, or sexuality, or religion.

It's simply about who governs this country.

To you it might not be, supposedly, but to many it is about that exact thing, not the governance, but the race war.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Shock horror, an organisation that gets money from the EU supports Remaining!

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The best part being that you can't defend the valid point so you're deflecting.

It's actually somewhat of a defence really. It's accepting that, no, voting leave isn't just for racists. I'd expect however that the most bigoted people of society will vote Leave. That bothers me immensely, I would not want to stand alongside the xenophobes, racists, homophobes and anti-semites.

But that's also inflammatory and unfair to the whole campaign, it's just sad that the leaders of the campaign are generally those things.

Except it's not a valid point, it's one made to hide the fact that there are no benefits to being in the EU.

This referendum isn't about 'race', or skin colour, or sexuality, or religion.

It's simply about who governs this country.

To you it might not be, supposedly, but to many it is about that exact thing, not the governance, but the race war.

Isn't the free movement of (mostly) light-skinned people across the continent - which we would lose with a Leave vote - a good thing for the advocates of this 'race war'? Particularly since about a million or so light-skinned Eastern Europeans have settled over here since 2004.

Hero wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:Why should he? His recent posts indicate that he sees negative economic forecasts as a greater evil than overt social racism. That goes towards most Leave voters.

I liked your earlier post on how both sides have been guilty of extreme and ridiculous language, however, you are just as guilty with your above comment. You are implying that a vote to leave is a vote for racism. Those that vote to leave are no more likely to be racist than those that vote to remain. Immigration is a hot issue, and isn't one that detached from from the debate on the economy. Both sides of the debate have agreed that the EU open door policy does disadvantage Britains working class. There are also many in both Germany and France taking issue with the open door policy and likely a key issue for both in their forthcoming elections.
Those advocating to leave are not against immigration. They are against immigration without control. As someone who will vote to remain I believe they have a point and it is an issue that must be resolved within the EU.

To clarify, I wasn't saying all Leave voters are racists. My comment was directed more at the legions who slate the Remain side like there's no tomorrow while brazenly ignoring the very, very worrying features of the Leave campaign and the kind of supporters they're relying on. As for immigration, you can have objections to an open-door policy without being racist. Immigration wasn't really what I was talking about.

End of the day the Leave campaign is a great outlet for racial supremacists who are no longer able to express their ideologies in the ways of the 30's. And the likes of Boris and Nige are happy to accept these kinds of views without so much as acknowledging the kind of outdated ignorance which is partially fuelling their drive. Even Boris, whom I previously expected to be the least racially inflaming individual on VL, can't stop himself from focusing on Obama's Kenyan ethnicity when the latter so much as offers a criticism.

I stand by my previous comments that both sides are full of clowns out to mislead people but then when I vote it won't be a vote for Dave or Nige, it'll be a vote derived from my independent views.

What kind of supporters do they rely on? It would be the height of nonsense to suggest that Brexit rely on racists/racial supremacists. There will be bad characters on both sides of this debate, each with their own agendas, but their numbers will be so few as to not sway the poll either way. The vast majority will vote according to their own reasonable, personal convictions.

Well Britain First has over 1m Facebook followers, I imagine every single one of them is voting Leave.

Assuming that all of those 1M followers will actually vote (never assume because....). And some of them could live in parts of Devon or Wales that have benefitted from EU membership, and therefore want to vote remain.

I'm not aware of unite receiving eu funding but happy to be corrected, to be fair not sure why they are weighing in but the document is sound.

Hero wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:Why should he? His recent posts indicate that he sees negative economic forecasts as a greater evil than overt social racism. That goes towards most Leave voters.

I liked your earlier post on how both sides have been guilty of extreme and ridiculous language, however, you are just as guilty with your above comment. You are implying that a vote to leave is a vote for racism. Those that vote to leave are no more likely to be racist than those that vote to remain. Immigration is a hot issue, and isn't one that detached from from the debate on the economy. Both sides of the debate have agreed that the EU open door policy does disadvantage Britains working class. There are also many in both Germany and France taking issue with the open door policy and likely a key issue for both in their forthcoming elections.
Those advocating to leave are not against immigration. They are against immigration without control. As someone who will vote to remain I believe they have a point and it is an issue that must be resolved within the EU.

To clarify, I wasn't saying all Leave voters are racists. My comment was directed more at the legions who slate the Remain side like there's no tomorrow while brazenly ignoring the very, very worrying features of the Leave campaign and the kind of supporters they're relying on. As for immigration, you can have objections to an open-door policy without being racist. Immigration wasn't really what I was talking about.

End of the day the Leave campaign is a great outlet for racial supremacists who are no longer able to express their ideologies in the ways of the 30's. And the likes of Boris and Nige are happy to accept these kinds of views without so much as acknowledging the kind of outdated ignorance which is partially fuelling their drive. Even Boris, whom I previously expected to be the least racially inflaming individual on VL, can't stop himself from focusing on Obama's Kenyan ethnicity when the latter so much as offers a criticism.

I stand by my previous comments that both sides are full of clowns out to mislead people but then when I vote it won't be a vote for Dave or Nige, it'll be a vote derived from my independent views.

What kind of supporters do they rely on? It would be the height of nonsense to suggest that Brexit rely on racists/racial supremacists. There will be bad characters on both sides of this debate, each with their own agendas, but their numbers will be so few as to not sway the poll either way. The vast majority will vote according to their own reasonable, personal convictions.

Well Britain First has over 1m Facebook followers, I imagine every single one of them is voting Leave.

Most of those 'likes' don't come from genuine Britain First supporters. Their twitter followers amass only 10K.

Ent wrote:How so, please enlighten me.

I don't think those on the Remain side of the debate have denied that the working classes have been disadvantaged by the open doors policy. Watching Alastair Campbell (the spin merchant) debating on the Nolan Show, mid week, admitted himself to the fact, and he is full on Remain.

It doesn't take genius to work it out. The more migration there is to any country, the more available labour force, the more able to drive wages down due to the competition for work placement.

You also mentioned 'the EU takes our money'. The EU does take our money. Taking our money isn't an issue. What we get in return for that investment is, by way of grants/subsidies. The farming community relies heavily on these grants, for example, but those grants are set to run out in 2020. Not that the grants wont be renewed, but relying on these grants do carry a certain amount of risk. A counter argument would be, in the event of a Brexit, would the British Governments handling of grants carry any less risk?

Facebook has 1.65 billion users, Twitter only 310 million.

If you'd ever been on the Britain First page Hero you'll notice the amount of people who follow the group just to rip them to shreds each and every time they post some nonsense.

Hero wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:Why should he? His recent posts indicate that he sees negative economic forecasts as a greater evil than overt social racism. That goes towards most Leave voters.

I liked your earlier post on how both sides have been guilty of extreme and ridiculous language, however, you are just as guilty with your above comment. You are implying that a vote to leave is a vote for racism. Those that vote to leave are no more likely to be racist than those that vote to remain. Immigration is a hot issue, and isn't one that detached from from the debate on the economy. Both sides of the debate have agreed that the EU open door policy does disadvantage Britains working class. There are also many in both Germany and France taking issue with the open door policy and likely a key issue for both in their forthcoming elections.
Those advocating to leave are not against immigration. They are against immigration without control. As someone who will vote to remain I believe they have a point and it is an issue that must be resolved within the EU.

To clarify, I wasn't saying all Leave voters are racists. My comment was directed more at the legions who slate the Remain side like there's no tomorrow while brazenly ignoring the very, very worrying features of the Leave campaign and the kind of supporters they're relying on. As for immigration, you can have objections to an open-door policy without being racist. Immigration wasn't really what I was talking about.

End of the day the Leave campaign is a great outlet for racial supremacists who are no longer able to express their ideologies in the ways of the 30's. And the likes of Boris and Nige are happy to accept these kinds of views without so much as acknowledging the kind of outdated ignorance which is partially fuelling their drive. Even Boris, whom I previously expected to be the least racially inflaming individual on VL, can't stop himself from focusing on Obama's Kenyan ethnicity when the latter so much as offers a criticism.

I stand by my previous comments that both sides are full of clowns out to mislead people but then when I vote it won't be a vote for Dave or Nige, it'll be a vote derived from my independent views.

What kind of supporters do they rely on? It would be the height of nonsense to suggest that Brexit rely on racists/racial supremacists. There will be bad characters on both sides of this debate, each with their own agendas, but their numbers will be so few as to not sway the poll either way. The vast majority will vote according to their own reasonable, personal convictions.

Well Britain First has over 1m Facebook followers, I imagine every single one of them is voting Leave.

Then you have a vivid imagination.

Munchkin wrote:

Ent wrote:How so, please enlighten me.

I don't think those on the Remain side of the debate have denied that the working classes have been disadvantaged by the open doors policy. Watching Alastair Campbell (the spin merchant) debating on the Nolan Show, mid week, admitted himself to the fact, and he is full on Remain.

It doesn't take genius to work it out. The more migration there is to any country, the more available labour force, the more able to drive wages down due to the competition for work placement.

You also mentioned 'the EU takes our money'. The EU does take our money. Taking our money isn't an issue. What we get in return for that investment is, by way of grants/subsidies. The farming community relies heavily on these grants, for example, but those grants are set to run out in 2020. Not that the grants wont be renewed, but relying on these grants do carry a certain amount of risk. A counter argument would be, in the event of a Brexit, would the British Governments handling of grants carry any less risk?

There is no evidence for this.

Eu migrants make up a relatively small percentage of the work force, 7%.

The minimum wage protects everyone, prevents a race to the bottom. People in work create jobs as they spend money on products and services, buy houses etc.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

https://next.ft.com/content/0deacb52-178b-11e6-9d98-00386a18e39d

The eu does not take our money, we pay in based on our voluntary membership.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If you'd ever been on the Britain First page Hero you'll notice the amount of people who follow the group just to rip them to shreds each and every time they post some nonsense.

I was banned (didn't follow them though)

Duty281 wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Shock horror, an organisation that gets money from the EU supports Remaining!

And that is your argument. Get facts posted - "oh well, they support Remain so they are wrong"