The EU Referendum - Thursday 23 June (with voting poll)

First topic message reminder :

Hopefully it will stop the arguments about Gib and we can tell Spain to pee off

You're well aware of Le Pen though I presume Duty? She's best friends with the Freedom Party you'd happily vote for.

Does Cameron actually run hus own twitter? How the f*ck does he have the time? ! Hero can I have my own name back now. I'd rather not have to change the saved logins from the 50 different computers I log in from.

I suspect someone in labour passed that article onto Cameron and asked him to post it. Seeing as she was voting that way anyway and fighting for it it's fair that he can use and share it for its intended purpose. It's also a little unfair on leave, they are going to suffer from something which they did not do. Just one of those things.

Hero wrote:You're well aware of Le Pen though I presume Duty? She's best friends with the Freedom Party you'd happily vote for.

Yes I am familiar. She says it is not decent to use this dramatic event for speculation - I don't think she's banging the Vote Leave drum on the back of this despicable killing.

Eh why would I mention groups I've never heard of Hero? You bringing that up is news to me. If they're skinhead type idiots (which I suspect they are) then I'll distance myself from it like I do with similar groups. I've no idea why you are still trying to align all of these people with the Leave campaign, it's desperation.

SecretFly wrote:

Hero wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:How are you aware of what the killer wanted? 

Cameron is doing just that.

Well being that he killed her and said 'Death to traitors, freedom for Britain' in court I'm guessing he wasn't overly a fan of what she had to say.

Has he a history of mental illness?

Ahhh yes, the white man's excuse when something like this happens. He was just mentally ill.

Shah if you message me your username I'll change it back, I keep trying to remember it exactly and can't

SecretFly wrote:Dolphin, why put up that and then say what you say?

Are you expecting any of the regular posters here to call Jo Cox a fool?  And if not, then why construct such a presumed link between this Liberty GB outfit and posters on  606?

Because it seemed a relevant point. And because if anyone does agree with this drivel then I would ban them.

There is possibly a link between this "party" and 606 posters, some may agree with what the rat says in various posts. I don't know, I sincerely hope not.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/19/eu-referendum-result-polls-britain-europe

This link contains a timetable as to when the various counts are announced. All things being equal, the result should be quite obvious around the 4-5 A.M. mark, maybe even sooner if the referendum is a thumping win for one side.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Hero wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:How are you aware of what the killer wanted? 

Cameron is doing just that.

Well being that he killed her and said 'Death to traitors, freedom for Britain' in court I'm guessing he wasn't overly a fan of what she had to say.

Has he a history of mental illness?

Ahhh yes, the white man's excuse when something like this happens. He was just mentally ill.

No, no, no. The Official World Politically Correct Person's excuse that usually covers acres of territory (most especially their plight when a nations Health system isn't working right - Of course too, all concern for that sector of society dissipates when there is a nice political excuse to ignore it - like the BBC mostly ignored it ....and like the people firmly in the Remain camp choose to side-track it.

Has the guy got genuine and serious mental issues or not, and if he has why would you want to so wilfully ignore that truth?

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Hero wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:How are you aware of what the killer wanted? 

Cameron is doing just that.

Well being that he killed her and said 'Death to traitors, freedom for Britain' in court I'm guessing he wasn't overly a fan of what she had to say.

Has he a history of mental illness?

Ahhh yes, the white man's excuse when something like this happens. He was just mentally ill.

You think mental illness is a 'white mans excuse'? Are you really this big an idiot?

Drop by to offer my tribute to Jo Cox...Seemed like a good girl and the type we all want at Westminster...

Only positive to come out of this tragedy is seeing the Brit public come together and seeing the outpourings of tributes to a caring individual..

Makes one realise that there are many more good apples than bad and restores ones belief in human nature..

Let's remember too there is a pensioner in hospital that tried to help the fallen Jo despite her assailant being armed as others stood frozen in fear..

If and when he leaves hospital let him not be forgotten !!

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Dolphin, why put up that and then say what you say?

Are you expecting any of the regular posters here to call Jo Cox a fool?  And if not, then why construct such a presumed link between this Liberty GB outfit and posters on  606?

Because it seemed a relevant point. And because if anyone does agree with this drivel then I would ban them.

There is possibly a link between this "party" and 606 posters, some may agree with what the rat says in various posts. I don't know, I sincerely hope not.

Scratch my last question to you. I have the answer.

SecretFly wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Hero wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:How are you aware of what the killer wanted? 

Cameron is doing just that.

Well being that he killed her and said 'Death to traitors, freedom for Britain' in court I'm guessing he wasn't overly a fan of what she had to say.

Has he a history of mental illness?

Ahhh yes, the white man's excuse when something like this happens. He was just mentally ill.

No, no, no.  The Official World Politically Correct Person's excuse that usually covers acres of territory (most especially their plight when a nations Health system isn't working right - Of course too, all concern for that sector of society dissipates when there is a nice political excuse to ignore it - like the BBC mostly ignored it  ....and like the people firmly in the Remain camp choose to side-track it.  

Has the guy got genuine and serious mental issues or not, and if he has why would you want to so wilfully ignore that truth?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/17/jo-cox-murder-thomas-mair-asked-for-mental-health-treatment-day/

He wanted treatment for depression, apparently, but I don't believe that would have been a driving force to murder. Whether he had other mental health issues - like schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder - remains to be seen.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Dolphin, why put up that and then say what you say?

Are you expecting any of the regular posters here to call Jo Cox a fool?  And if not, then why construct such a presumed link between this Liberty GB outfit and posters on  606?

Because it seemed a relevant point. And because if anyone does agree with this drivel then I would ban them.

There is possibly a link between this "party" and 606 posters, some may agree with what the rat says in various posts. I don't know, I sincerely hope not.

No, I think you, in making assumed potential connections, are being needlessly confrontational and sowing the very negative emotions again that both sides of the Campaign claim social media has been guilty of concocting for too many weeks/months now.

If Jo Cox is to be remembered with respect then let's tone down the readiness to keep the debate overly charge with bile?

My advice is to move on from talking about this guy...

1. Posters will get banned because it will get personal..

2. Starve these people of the oxygen of publicity...If he killed her to start a conversation...Don't oblige him by having one..

Duty281 wrote:

He wanted treatment for depression, apparently, but I don't believe that would have been a driving force to murder. Whether he had other mental health issues - like schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder - remains to be seen.

There's an earlier article from a few years ago where he was talking about either being on, or looking for alternatives to, psychotherapy and medication. It's clear that the guy has had problems and not just recently.

Munchkin wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Hero wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:How are you aware of what the killer wanted? 

Cameron is doing just that.

Well being that he killed her and said 'Death to traitors, freedom for Britain' in court I'm guessing he wasn't overly a fan of what she had to say.

Has he a history of mental illness?

Ahhh yes, the white man's excuse when something like this happens. He was just mentally ill.

You think mental illness is a 'white mans excuse'? Are you really this big an idiot?

I am presuming you don't quite get what I mean. It is this that is said when a white man commits these acts. He isnt a terrorist, or anything else, but a "loner", and people question his mental health.

He killed someone, of course he has mental health issues!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My advice is to move on from talking about this guy...

1. Posters will get banned because it will get personal..

2. Starve these people of the oxygen of publicity...If he killed her to start a conversation...Don't oblige him by having one..

He killed her to stop one, and the conversation that has come out of it is one that goes against what he stands for

SecretFly wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Dolphin, why put up that and then say what you say?

Are you expecting any of the regular posters here to call Jo Cox a fool?  And if not, then why construct such a presumed link between this Liberty GB outfit and posters on  606?

Because it seemed a relevant point. And because if anyone does agree with this drivel then I would ban them.

There is possibly a link between this "party" and 606 posters, some may agree with what the rat says in various posts. I don't know, I sincerely hope not.

No, I think you, in making assumed potential connections, are being needlessly confrontational and sowing the very negative emotions again that both sides of the Campaign claim social media has been guilty of concocting for too many weeks/months now.

If Jo Cox is to be remembered with respect then let's tone down the readiness to keep the debate overly charge with bile?

You have come after me for it, so I would imagine confrontation wise you are the one who would need to take a step back. This guy doesn't represent anyone on either sides in the public eye, even Farage would be horrified by him - at the very least by his stupidity.

Duty281 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Hero wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:How are you aware of what the killer wanted? 

Cameron is doing just that.

Well being that he killed her and said 'Death to traitors, freedom for Britain' in court I'm guessing he wasn't overly a fan of what she had to say.

Has he a history of mental illness?

Ahhh yes, the white man's excuse when something like this happens. He was just mentally ill.

No, no, no.  The Official World Politically Correct Person's excuse that usually covers acres of territory (most especially their plight when a nations Health system isn't working right - Of course too, all concern for that sector of society dissipates when there is a nice political excuse to ignore it - like the BBC mostly ignored it  ....and like the people firmly in the Remain camp choose to side-track it.  

Has the guy got genuine and serious mental issues or not, and if he has why would you want to so wilfully ignore that truth?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/17/jo-cox-murder-thomas-mair-asked-for-mental-health-treatment-day/

He wanted treatment for depression, apparently, but I don't believe that would have been a driving force to murder. Whether he had other mental health issues - like schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder - remains to be seen.

Or he could have just been setting up a mitigation plea in advance by claiming he sought help and was denied it.

Munchkin wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Dolphin, why put up that and then say what you say?

Are you expecting any of the regular posters here to call Jo Cox a fool?  And if not, then why construct such a presumed link between this Liberty GB outfit and posters on  606?

Because it seemed a relevant point. And because if anyone does agree with this drivel then I would ban them.

There is possibly a link between this "party" and 606 posters, some may agree with what the rat says in various posts. I don't know, I sincerely hope not.

Scratch my last question to you. I have the answer.

So there could not possibly be people here who support his "party"? Regardless of side, thats a pretty wide-ranging statement to make. Or idiotic. But I'll let you judge that as its clearly yours to do.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My advice is to move on from talking about this guy...

1. Posters will get banned because it will get personal..

2. Starve these people of the oxygen of publicity...If he killed her to start a conversation...Don't oblige him by having one..

He killed her to stop one, and the conversation that has come out of it is one that goes against what he stands for

A conversation is a two way thing..

Anyway you need to calm down..

I'm not particularly annoyed Truss. The conversation is being had. It was being had before and clearly he didnt like how much she wanted to state her side in it. That much is clear. And a conversation has continued, not the one I believe he wanted.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

You have come after me for it, so I would imagine confrontation wise you are the one who would need to take a step back. This guy doesn't represent anyone on either sides in the public eye, even Farage would be horrified by him - at the very least by his stupidity.

There you go. Finally a way of wording it that we'd all agree with.

If thats what you wanted you should have just said it Fly, would have saved us both jumping around a bit perturbed!

As I won't be on here for a while....My take and prediction..

The polls are leaning to remain again and as the public are finally coming to the stark realisation that this vote is for real I expect the trend to continue..

53-47....Is my prediction...

I predict Cameron will fight a leadership election soon after...and despite winning he will resign because 40 percent of the mps will vote for the challenger...

Take it easy..

Cameron on question time currently.

Some of the questions people are asking him, wow.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Hero wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:How are you aware of what the killer wanted? 

Cameron is doing just that.

Well being that he killed her and said 'Death to traitors, freedom for Britain' in court I'm guessing he wasn't overly a fan of what she had to say.

Has he a history of mental illness?

Ahhh yes, the white man's excuse when something like this happens. He was just mentally ill.

You think mental illness is a 'white mans excuse'? Are you really this big an idiot?

I am presuming you don't quite get what I mean. It is this that is said when a white man commits these acts. He isnt a terrorist, or anything else, but a "loner", and people question his mental health.

He killed someone, of course he has mental health issues!

You think all those that murder have mental health issue's? You think all those that commit murder claim to be mentally ill? You think it's white men in particular? I would be really interested to know what exactly you base this on?
In this case it does seem more than reasonable to suggest the killer has mental health issues, although not much point in guessing what those issue's are.

Did he have mental issues? Yes
Did Omar Mateen have mental issues? Yes

Was one considered a terrorist by the mainstream media whilst the other a lone nutjob? Yes.

Hero has kind of summed it up.

Yes, I genuinely believe all planned killers have mental health issues, whilst arguably anyone who can be turned to rage and kill in a blur would likely be shown to have mental health conditions; a different kind, but one would guess that such an anger issue could be considered a mental health problem.

As someone with mental health problems, you will have to understand that I am not labelling those with mental health issues "nutters." Although I have done so tongue in cheek when talking about myself. However, the point is like Hero states. It seems your white murderer these days is labelled by the media to have had mental health issues. Your muslim murderer is a terrorist. What this man did to Jo Cox fits the definition of terrorism. It hasn't really been deigned as so.

Weirdly, I know someone who has met Omar Mateen and mixed with people both would consider friends. She tells me that they were not 100% surprised, in the sense that if anyone they know would be the type they felt it was him. And also that he wasn't a preaching Muslim who attacked western-society on the whole; he certainly didn't care about their drinking and other "interests" shall we say. But this is hearsay from her, much of which she gained from people who were friends with him so its recycled and not strong source material. Interesting to me though.

https://www.facebook.com/fusionmedianetwork/videos/1447254475300526/

An interesting watch.

Don't believe in one size fits all...Dolphin.

Good luck with your issues though Dolphin.....Mental issues are much more common than most people think..

Indeed neither do I. Just looking at whats around and seeing what sense I can make I guess.

Thank you Truss. Sadly so, but the world is getting a little better at understanding them. The more we talk the more people can let that guard down and help themselves.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Hero has kind of summed it up.

Yes, I genuinely believe all planned killers have mental health issues, whilst arguably anyone who can be turned to rage and kill in a blur would likely be shown to have mental health conditions; a different kind, but one would guess that such an anger issue could be considered a mental health problem.

As someone with mental health problems, you will have to understand that I am not labelling those with mental health issues "nutters." Although I have done so tongue in cheek when talking about myself. However, the point is like Hero states. It seems your white murderer these days is labelled by the media to have had mental health issues. Your muslim murderer is a terrorist. What this man did to Jo Cox fits the definition of terrorism. It hasn't really been deigned as so.

Weirdly, I know someone who has met Omar Mateen and mixed with people both would consider friends. She tells me that they were not 100% surprised, in the sense that if anyone they know would be the type they felt it was him. And also that he wasn't a preaching Muslim who attacked western-society on the whole; he certainly didn't care about their drinking and other "interests" shall we say. But this is hearsay from her, much of which she gained from people who were friends with him so its recycled and not strong source material. Interesting to me though.

Special forces plan killings. Are they all mentally ill? It's up to the courts to decide if someone is mentally ill. Usually after being assessed by a court appointed psychiatrist. Not all those who commit murder are found to be mentally ill.

Oh now you're just being picky. Obviously those are different.

What makes them different?

Motive.

So motive is the deciding factor in whether a murderer is mentally ill or not. Who knew?

Straw manning.

Where's the straw man? Do you just say stuff for the sake of saying stuff?

You have concluded I believe the deciding factor of wether a murderer is mentally ill is motive, which I haven't said anywhere. That is straw manning.

Special forces aren't murderers either.

I haven't concluded anything. I was highlighting how ridiculous your claim is.

Who said the special forces were murderers?

You quite clearly alluded to it.

You haven't highlighted anything you've just made a fool of yourself.

Do you read your own posts? Maybe you should get an adult to go through them with you.

I don't think I am the one who has issues reading posts or following a conversation.

Munchkin, you've stated you're for Remain but haven't been a fan of the campaign, what would you have liked to seen instead and what about being in the EU over leaving sways your vote?

Ent wrote:I don't think I am the one who has issues reading posts or following a conversation.

Sure. I will let others decide on that.

Not much point having a discussion with you, so think I will just let you ramble with someone else.

Good luck.

Munchkin wrote:

Ent wrote:I don't think I am the one who has issues reading posts or following a conversation.

Sure. I will let others decide on that.

Not much point having a discussion with you, so think I will just let you ramble with someone else.

Good luck.

Suits me.

Moving on from that nice and quickly...

The guys behaviour in court and otherwise quite clearly indicates the signs of some very serious mental illness.


The decision to label him a loner is perhaps more to do with avoiding her tragic passing as means to link with any eu referendum debate or wider terror issue

Rightly so too frankly this should stay separate from the debate, it has nothing to do with it

Munchkin wrote:What makes them different?

I dont think its much of a question really. Soldiers dont "murder" by the standards we would have it, although some in other areas might say that is somewhat different. But we are talking in terms of law here, and we all know we don't see every soldier sent home and to court for following orders. This is a bonkers debate, we both know the damn answer