New Zealand v Wales, 18 June

by **George Carlin** Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:16 pm

NEW ZEALAND v WALES
18 June 2016
19:35 NZST (UTC+12)
Westpac Stadium, Wellington

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

31 Played 31
28 Won 3
0 Drawn 0
3 Lost 28
955 Points 328

B. Recent Form

11 June 2016 - Eden Park, Auckland: 39-21 to New Zealand

22 November 2014 - Millennium Stadium, Cardiff: 16 – 34 to New Zealand

24 November 2012 - Millennium Stadium, Cardiff: 10 – 33 to New Zealand

27 November 2010 - Millennium Stadium, Cardiff: 25 – 37 to New Zealand

26 June 2010 - Waikato Stadium, Hamilton: 29 – 10 to New Zealand

19 June 2010 - Carisbrook, Dunedin: 42 – 9 to New Zealand

7 November 2009 - Millennium Stadium, Cardiff: 12 – 19 to New Zealand

C. Teams

NEW ZEALAND
New Zealand v Wales, 18 June Kiwi-b10

Israel Dagg; Ben Smith, Malakai Fekitoa, Ryan Crotty, Waisake Naholo; Aaron Cruden, Aaron Smith; Joe Moody, Dane Coles, Owen Franks, Brodie Retallick, Sam Whitelock, Jerome Kaino, Sam Cane, Kieran Read (capt).

Replacements: Nathan Harris; Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Patrick Tuipulotu, Ardie Savea, TJ Perenara, Beauden Barrett, Seta Tamanivalu.

WALES

Rhys Patchell, Liam Williams, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, Hallam Amos, Dan Biggar, Rhys Webb, Gethin Jenkins, Ken Owens, Samson Lee, Luke Charteris, Alun Wyn Jones, Ross Moriarty, Sam Warburton (capt), Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements: Scott Baldwin, Rob Evans, Tomas Francis, Bradley Davies, Ellis Jenkins, Gareth Davies, Rhys Priestland, Scott Williams.

by Jimpy Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:28 pm

NZ by at least 30 points.

by funnyExiledScot Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:37 pm

Yep, hard to see past Wales being completely hammered. Once NZ get on top it becomes relentless, so Moriarty and Warburton are going to need to have massive games.

by mikey_dragon Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:42 pm

The back-row was good at disrupting ABs flow on the weekend, I think they'll continue in that vain. It's not easy, but easier, now McCaw is no longer around. I wouldn't put it past Gatland selecting Warburton and Jenkins (Ellis) on each flank either.

by **George Carlin** Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:49 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Yep, hard to see past Wales being completely hammered. Once NZ get on top it becomes relentless, so Moriarty and Warburton are going to need to have massive games.

Correct, but Warbuton just played 50 minutes of that idiotic fixture against the Chiefs so he will hardly be box fresh come the weekend.

Absolute lunacy taking that fixture. It was lose-lose.

A victory would have meant nothing because it was expected against a club side and a defeat (of the kind which has just happened) will bring the whole squad down and see to it that players who might be quite important subs (like Jake Ball) are carrying injuries. I really hate to think that the WRU might just have done it for the money.

by Comfort Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:57 pm

Expecting similar to the first game, with a wider margin of results in the all blacks favour.

by fa0019 Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:19 pm

George Carlin wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Yep, hard to see past Wales being completely hammered. Once NZ get on top it becomes relentless, so Moriarty and Warburton are going to need to have massive games.
Correct, but Warbuton just played 50 minutes of that idiotic fixture against the Chiefs so he will hardly be box fresh come the weekend.

Absolute lunacy taking that fixture. It was lose-lose.

A victory would have meant nothing because it was expected against a club side and a defeat (of the kind which has just happened) will bring the whole squad down and see to it that players who might be quite important subs (like Jake Ball) are carrying injuries. I really hate to think that the WRU might just have done it for the money.

I don't think thats really true in terms of the 2nd string run out vs. the chiefs. What are the backup players going to NZ for.... to carry tackle bags? Games give players opportunities to force the hands of coaches and rethink their test teams.

SH teams have played Munster, Leicester likewise. If anything I think it was probably a coaches request that the WRU negotiated for them.

by **George Carlin** Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:05 pm

fa0019 wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Yep, hard to see past Wales being completely hammered. Once NZ get on top it becomes relentless, so Moriarty and Warburton are going to need to have massive games.
Correct, but Warbuton just played 50 minutes of that idiotic fixture against the Chiefs so he will hardly be box fresh come the weekend.

Absolute lunacy taking that fixture. It was lose-lose.

A victory would have meant nothing because it was expected against a club side and a defeat (of the kind which has just happened) will bring the whole squad down and see to it that players who might be quite important subs (like Jake Ball) are carrying injuries. I really hate to think that the WRU might just have done it for the money.

I don't think thats really true in terms of the 2nd string run out vs. the chiefs. What are the backup players going to NZ for.... to carry tackle bags? Games give players opportunities to force the hands of coaches and rethink their test teams.

SH teams have played Munster, Leicester likewise. If anything I think it was probably a coaches request that the WRU negotiated for them.

Sure - Munster v All Blacks in particular is a wonderful fixture.

There was just no need to have this one in the middle of a test series with a full international match 4 days either side.

Why not have it a week after the final test?

by Not grey and not a ghost Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:40 pm

George Carlin wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Yep, hard to see past Wales being completely hammered. Once NZ get on top it becomes relentless, so Moriarty and Warburton are going to need to have massive games.
Correct, but Warbuton just played 50 minutes of that idiotic fixture against the Chiefs so he will hardly be box fresh come the weekend.

Absolute lunacy taking that fixture. It was lose-lose.

A victory would have meant nothing because it was expected against a club side and a defeat (of the kind which has just happened) will bring the whole squad down and see to it that players who might be quite important subs (like Jake Ball) are carrying injuries. I really hate to think that the WRU might just have done it for the money.

I don't think thats really true in terms of the 2nd string run out vs. the chiefs. What are the backup players going to NZ for.... to carry tackle bags? Games give players opportunities to force the hands of coaches and rethink their test teams.

SH teams have played Munster, Leicester likewise. If anything I think it was probably a coaches request that the WRU negotiated for them.
Sure - Munster v All Blacks in particular is a wonderful fixture.

There was just no need to have this one in the middle of a test series with a full international match 4 days either side.

Why not have it a week after the final test?

All Blacks v Munster Game in 2008 was in the middle of the tour, on Tuesday 4 days before the Wales Test, following the test against Ireland. Just saying.

by bedfordwelsh Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:10 pm

Comfort wrote:Expecting similar to the first game, with a wider margin of results in the all blacks favour.

Yep that's about right and I would have expected it with or without todays fixture.

by Jimpy Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:31 am

Comfort wrote:Expecting similar to the first game, with a wider margin of results in the all blacks favour.

You're right, I've changed my mind.

NZ by at least 40 points.

by Comfort Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:56 am

Jimpy wrote:
Comfort wrote:Expecting similar to the first game, with a wider margin of results in the all blacks favour.

You're right, I've changed my mind.

NZ by at least 40 points.

I genuinely wouldnt be surprised at the rate we've been going for the last year or so.

I expect one of the next 2 games to be utterly embarressing and one to be close-ish (10-15 points difference we we play well). Thats where I'm at with Team Wales at the moment. I sound like a broken record I know but I just cant see where the changes are gonna be made that will improve our performance enough to make any difference.

by TightHEAD Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:20 pm

Wales to win by 2pts.

by Jimpy Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:35 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Wales to win by 2pts.

A physical impossibility.

by Knowsit17 Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:41 pm

NZ by 40-50

by Hazel Sapling Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:32 pm

Think Wales will have had a kick up the backside after that Chiefs result. I think they will come out better and be down only 10 +/- 3 at half. Second half the AB run them ragged and win by 25-30. Something along the lines of 42-16

by **George Carlin** Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:36 pm

Jimpy wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Wales to win by 2pts.

A physical impossibility.

But not a moral one. Very Happy

by Exiledinborders Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:58 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Wales to win by 2pts.

I would love to see all the NH teams win in SH but I doubt it. I expect Ireland to win against a pretty poor Boks team. England could go either way. Wales sadly have little chance.

by Jimpy Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:48 pm

George Carlin wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Wales to win by 2pts.

A physical impossibility.
But not a moral one.

by Knowsit17 Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:55 pm

George Carlin wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Wales to win by 2pts.

A physical impossibility.
But not a moral one.

A moral victory would be losing by only 20 pts or less. That way the coaches/players can say they fought hard and didn't make life easy for the hosts. That they took a lot from the game that can be built on for the AI's. Wonder how that will go.

by Dai Llewod Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:14 pm

Just can't see anything other than a NZ win. This is going to be another tour of hell.

I wonder how fit and healthy those Wales players are. Some of them have played a fair amount of rugby in the last year. Too much rugby on these days.

by BamBam Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:02 pm

Starting XV

1. Joe Moody (12)
2. Dane Coles (37)
3. Owen Franks (79)
4. Brodie Retallick (48)
5. Sam Whitelock (73)
6. Jerome Kaino (68)
7. Sam Cane (32)
8. Kieran Read – captain (85)
9. Aaron Smith (48)
10. Aaron Cruden (38)
11. Waisake Naholo(4)
12. Ryan Crotty (16)
13. Malakai Fekitoa (14)
14. Ben Smith (49)
15. Israel Dagg (49)

Reserves

16. Nathan Harris (3)
17. Wyatt Crockett (46)
18. Charlie Faumuina (34)
19. Patrick Tuipulotu (8)
20. Ardie Savea (1)
21. TJ Perenara (17)
22. Beauden Barrett (36)
23. Seta Tamanivalu (1)

On the bright side, Julian Savea has been dropped

On the not so bright side, it means Israel Dagg back to his top form is back in, and Sam Whitelock is back in the second row

by lostinwales Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:18 am

Wales team: Rhys Patchell,, Liam Williams, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, Hallam Amos, Dan Biggar, Rhys Webb, Gethin Jenkins, Ken Owens, Samson Lee, Luke Charteris, Alun Wyn Jones, Ross Moriarty, Sam Warburton (capt), Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements: Scott Baldwin, Rob Evans, Tomas Francis, Bradley Davies, Ellis Jenkins, Gareth Davies, Rhys Priestland, Scott Williams.

by Not grey and not a ghost Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:37 am

In depth analysis by Steve Hansen of last weeks game:

http://www.watchme.co.nz/entertainment/coach-steve/whatre-the-rules/

by TightHEAD Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:05 am

have you all gone over to the dark side (football) ?

by **LondonTiger** Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:21 am

Patchell at FB - is that a case of "least worst" available option?

Anscombe not fit I assume? Morgan, Amos and James all effectively ruled themselves out after the Chiefs game?

Is Liam Williams diminished slightly by being moved to the wing?

I thought, and hoped, you guys might give NZ a scare this weekend. Still may do, but they cannot afford to try and sit on any early lead.

Good luck.

by lostinwales Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:25 am

LondonTiger wrote:Patchell at FB - is that a case of "least worst" available option?

Anscombe not fit I assume? Morgan, Amos and James all effectively ruled themselves out after the Chiefs game?

Is Liam Williams diminished slightly by being moved to the wing?

I thought, and hoped, you guys might give NZ a scare this weekend. Still may do, but they cannot afford to try and sit on any early lead.

Good luck.

What the Beeb says was that Anscombe is unfit and with North out they decided to shift Williams over. Patchell is then (I guess) the last man standing...

by chris_501 Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:38 am

Bold call for Patchell there but I'm excited by it. He's a big, strong lad. Deceptively quick, and has a big old boot, similar to Halfpenny.

My only concern is that it takes our best counter attacking player out of where he played so well last week.

As for Charteris, it's a good call. His tackle rate is phenomenal, and he has that point of difference in defending the driving maul that Davies just doesn't have.

It may also help the pressure on the boys that if we win this afternoon, it bumps rugby down from being our national sport, to a minor one alongside squash and tug-of-war.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:38 am

LondonTiger wrote:Patchell at FB - is that a case of "least worst" available option?

Anscombe not fit I assume? Morgan, Amos and James all effectively ruled themselves out after the Chiefs game?

Amos didn't play against the Chiefs.

LondonTiger wrote:Is Liam Williams diminished slightly by being moved to the wing?

More than slightly.

by **LondonTiger** Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:50 am

Ah yeah, meant Walker not Amos - oops.

by bedfordwelsh Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:17 am

Patchell is a bit of a surprise but as has been mentioned neither James, Morgan or Walker took their chance on Tuesday. Also think JD is only there because Scott Williams didn't take his chance either.

I felt Charteris was always going to start so Patchell aside think it's what most would have expected.

by mikey_dragon Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:51 pm

Patchell's best position for the blues has been full-back. I just hope he plays he way he does them for Wales. It likely would have been Anscombe at 15 if fit, even though Patchell is better in that position.

by Seagultaf Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:12 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:Patchell is a bit of a surprise but as has been mentioned neither James, Morgan or Walker took their chance on Tuesday. Also think JD is only there because Scott Williams didn't take his chance either.

I felt Charteris was always going to start so Patchell aside think it's what most would have expected.

As usual a couple of injuries and Wales have a crisis. I think Patchell was the only real option for 15 given the players left on tour. Anscombe and Morgan seem to play as though tackling is someone else's job. Eli has been way off form and maybe could do with a fresh start somewhere, as he seems to struggle to get a start for the Ospreys these days. James is the player he has always been, brilliant one minute and a liability the next. It will be interesting to see if Patch stands at 10 in broken play as he does for Cardiff?

I don't think that Scott Williams really has the pace for a test 13, so if he was to come in it would probably be at 12 and Doc was always going to start. Rob Evans and Baldwin failed to shine in midweek, but they are both young men and will get other chances. Wales need Charteris, his height makes a big difference to the lineout and his tackling and work in the maul is also a bonus.

The big challenge for Wales though is to win the breakdown where they have been out muscled in recent games. A big ask to turn over New Zealand on their home patch!

by bedfordwelsh Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:31 pm

Seagultaf wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Patchell is a bit of a surprise but as has been mentioned neither James, Morgan or Walker took their chance on Tuesday. Also think JD is only there because Scott Williams didn't take his chance either.

I felt Charteris was always going to start so Patchell aside think it's what most would have expected.

As usual a couple of injuries and Wales have a crisis. I think Patchell was the only real option for 15 given the players left on tour. Anscombe and Morgan seem to play as though tackling is someone else's job. Eli has been way off form and maybe could do with a fresh start somewhere, as he seems to struggle to get a start for the Ospreys these days. James is the player he has always been, brilliant one minute and a liability the next. It will be interesting to see if Patch stands at 10 in broken play as he does for Cardiff?

I don't think that Scott Williams really has the pace for a test 13, so if he was to come in it would probably be at 12 and Doc was always going to start. Rob Evans and Baldwin failed to shine in midweek, but they are both young men and will get other chances. Wales need Charteris, his height makes a big difference to the lineout and his tackling and work in the maul is also a bonus.

The big challenge for Wales though is to win the breakdown where they have been out muscled in recent games. A big ask to turn over New Zealand on their home patch!

I thought that was one of the few areas where we getting the better of them for large periods last week. Warburton and Faletau were outstanding and I think Lydiate may have a hell of a battle to get the shirt back off Moriarty.

by irnbrew Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:49 pm

Sorry but Warby was not outstanding as he admitted his self and Moriarty missed 7 tackles yeah Lyds must be really worried

by mikey_dragon Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:01 pm

Yeah the breakdown battle looked good to me. Two players that seems to be struggling with defensive organisation are Baldwin and Moriarty.

by aucklandlaurie Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:13 pm

One thing that Wales can take into this game is that the All Blacks have never beaten Wales in Wellington in over a hundred years.

by aucklandlaurie Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:30 pm

[quote="George Carlin"]

fa0019 wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Yep, hard to see past Wales being completely hammered. Once NZ get on top it becomes relentless, so Moriarty and Warburton are going to need to have massive games.
Correct, but Warbuton just played 50 minutes of that idiotic fixture against the Chiefs so he will hardly be box fresh come the weekend.

Absolute lunacy taking that fixture. It was lose-lose.

A victory would have meant nothing because it was expected against a club side and a defeat (of the kind which has just happened) will bring the whole squad down and see to it that players who might be quite important subs (like Jake Ball) are carrying injuries. I really hate to think that the WRU might just have done it for the money.

I don't think thats really true in terms of the 2nd string run out vs. the chiefs. What are the backup players going to NZ for.... to carry tackle bags? Games give players opportunities to force the hands of coaches and rethink their test teams.

SH teams have played Munster, Leicester likewise. If anything I think it was probably a coaches request that the WRU negotiated for them.

Sure - Munster v All Blacks in particular is a wonderful fixture.

There was just no need to have this one in the middle of a test series with a full international match 4 days either side.

Why not have it a week after the final test?[/quote.

One reason would be that the Chiefs are playing the Crusaders six days later in Fiji, the fixture lists down here are jammed full.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:24 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:One thing that Wales can take into this game is that the All Blacks have never beaten Wales in Wellington in over a hundred years.

by bedfordwelsh Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:28 pm

I'd love a return to proper full tours but it'll never happen in this day and age.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:49 pm

I don't know if this is the place for this, but it's a comment on a BBC article about Wales's defeat to the Chiefs:

'Crusaders have appointed Razor as new coach next year. Highlanders have appointed Tony Brown next year and Schmidt in 2017. Nobody in NZ rates Gats at all. Since WC'11 all the major countries have appointed new coaches. None of them interviewed Gats. Nobody wants him. The WRU should bite the bullet and appoint Dave Rennie before Ireland do.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/36556314

by lostinwales Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:20 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I don't know if this is the place for this, but it's a comment on a BBC article about Wales's defeat to the Chiefs:

'Crusaders have appointed Razor as new coach next year. Highlanders have appointed Tony Brown next year and Schmidt in 2017. Nobody in NZ rates Gats at all. Since WC'11 all the major countries have appointed new coaches. None of them interviewed Gats. Nobody wants him. The WRU should bite the bullet and appoint Dave Rennie before Ireland do.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/36556314

You would have thought he could do a pretty good job with a team like Georgia

by aucklandlaurie Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:57 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I don't know if this is the place for this, but it's a comment on a BBC article about Wales's defeat to the Chiefs:

'Crusaders have appointed Razor as new coach next year. Highlanders have appointed Tony Brown next year and Schmidt in 2017. Nobody in NZ rates Gats at all. Since WC'11 all the major countries have appointed new coaches. None of them interviewed Gats. Nobody wants him. The WRU should bite the bullet and appoint Dave Rennie before Ireland do.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/36556314

You would have thought he could do a pretty good job with a team like Georgia

Georgia already have a coach. Former Chiefs assistant coach Milton Haigh.

by Not grey and not a ghost Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:10 am

Think Wales will look to slow the overall pace of the game down. More kicking.

by eirebilly Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:39 am

Morning all, just tuning in. Best of luck to you Welsh fans this morning.

by nathan Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:57 am

Just tuned in too as the all blacks score a try.

Hopefully Wales can get one back

by eirebilly Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:00 am

In the lead up to the try, Liam Williams made and absolute cracking try saving tackle on the big AB wing.

I always judge players against the best and right now in Falatau, Wales have probably the best 8 in world rugby.

by nathan Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:01 am

Wales being pinned backed in their own half and are struggling to get out

by nathan Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:08 am

Unfortunately have a feeling that Wales will slowly leak points now. So far they haven't been in this

by eirebilly Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:09 am

The speed and tempo of the All Blacks is amazing. Fair play to the Welsh for living with them right now although I do fear it will come at a cost later in the match.

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