England 45-man EPS

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Post updated for Eddie Jones' training squad.

From EnglandRugby.com

• Final EPS to be announced on 30 September
  
• Nathan Hughes included for first time
  

England Head Coach Eddie Jones has announced a provisional 45-man elite player squad (EPS) for England’s pre-season training camp in August.

The squad will meet at the Lensbury Hotel from 6-8 August and take part in training, planning meetings and individual reviews in preparation for the Old Mutual Wealth Series against South Africa, Fiji, Argentina and Australia later in the year.

Jones has named a number of uncapped players to attend the camp. Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers) and Nathan Hughes (Wasps) are included for the first time while Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins) and Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors) have all previously spent time with England.

Following their series win in South Africa with England Saxons, Dan Robson (Wasps), Mike Haley (Sale Sharks) and Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby) will join the camp, as will Joe Marchant (Harlequins) and Will Evans (Leicester Tigers), who were part of the England team who won the World Rugby U20 Championship in June.

MOST DOMINANT TEAM IN THE WORLD
England will announce a final 45-man EPS on 30 September for the Old Mutual Wealth Series starting against South Africa at Twickenham Stadium on Saturday 12 November.

“This camp sets the scene for November,” said Jones. “It’s important to catch-up with the players prior to the start of the season and continue to put our plans in place.

“We’ll use this time to reset and review each player’s goals so they’re clear on what is expected of them between now and when we meet up again in October. It also gives us an opportunity to meet and assess some new players and ensure they are familiar with the England setup.

“The long-term strategy for England is to develop a side who can be the most dominant team in world rugby, so we’ve chosen a number of new faces to attend this camp on the form they have shown recently or the potential we see in them.

“There will always be opportunities for anyone playing consistently well in the Premiership at the start of the season to force their way into the EPS - the door is always open. Naturally players not included in this pre-season camp will be disappointed, but consistent high-level performances can change this."

HUGE CHALLENGE
England sealed a 3-0 whitewash of Australia in June and are now the second-ranked team in world rugby, however, Jones is expecting a "huge challenge" from their next opponents at Twickenham - South Africa.

“England has not beaten South Africa since 2006 and we’ve lost our last five games against the Springboks at Twickenham," said Jones. "Not a single player who will attend the pre-season camp has played in a side that has ever beaten South Africa.

“While we acknowledge that we’re moving in the right direction we also recognise that defeat is never far away. It’s important the players all keep trying to improve and push themselves to reach new standards in their game. We cannot afford to have any complacency in our approach to this Test.”

45 man provisional EPS for England’s August training camp

Forwards

Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks)

Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)

Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)

Jack Clifford (Harlequins)

Will Evans (Leicester Tigers)

Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby)

Jamie George (Saracens)

Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers)

Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints)

Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)

James Haskell (Wasps)

Paul Hill (Northampton Saints)  

Nathan Hughes (Wasps)

Maro Itoje (Saracens)

George Kruis (Saracens)

Joe Launchbury (Wasps)

Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)

Joe Marler (Harlequins)

Matt Mullan (Wasps)

Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)

Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)

Billy Vunipola (Saracens)

Mako Vunipola (Saracens)

Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers)

Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs

Mike Brown (Harlequins)

Danny Care (Harlequins)

Elliot Daly (Wasps)

Owen Farrell (Saracens)

George Ford (Bath Rugby)

Alex Goode (Saracens)

Mike Haley (Sale Sharks)

Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)

Joe Marchant (Harlequins)

Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)

Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)

Dan Robson (Wasps)

Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby)

Joe Simpson (Wasps)

Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)

Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors)

Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)

Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)

Marland Yarde (Harlequins)

Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Original post:

Interesting shout....no Farrell..

GeordieFalcon wrote:So whos the players coming in from the JWC?

Mallinder and Evans I reckon. Though it may be they end up in the Saxons squads as opposed to the senior one.

PropDavid, Youngs starts ahead of Care because he offers pace and creation like Care but also far superior game management and a top notch kicking game. He was exceptional this tour and in particular in the final test.

I think Jones has settled on dual playmakers but it'll be interesting to see what he does at 13 when Manu is available. JJ offers more organisation and reliability but Manu is the one English man with the ability to turn a game on its head and we could certainly do with a little more carrying power in the midfield.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:So whos the players coming in from the JWC?

Mallinder and Evans I reckon. Though it may be they end up in the Saxons squads as opposed to the senior one.

PropDavid, Youngs starts ahead of Care because he offers pace and creation like Care but also far superior game management and a top notch kicking game. He was exceptional this tour and in particular in the final test.

I think Jones has settled on dual playmakers but it'll be interesting to see what he does at 13 when Manu is available. JJ offers more organisation and reliability but Manu is the one English man with the ability to turn a game on its head and we could certainly do with a little more carrying power in the midfield.

Am I remembering this incorrectly, or did Jones fairly recently say something like 'One thing is for sure. Tuilagi isn't a 13'?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Interesting shout....no Farrell..

I don't think there is any chance of Farrell not being involved in 15 months' time. Farrell at 10 and Mallinder at 12 seems possible.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:So whos the players coming in from the JWC?

Mallinder and Evans I reckon. Though it may be they end up in the Saxons squads as opposed to the senior one.

PropDavid, Youngs starts ahead of Care because he offers pace and creation like Care but also far superior game management and a top notch kicking game. He was exceptional this tour and in particular in the final test.

I think Jones has settled on dual playmakers but it'll be interesting to see what he does at 13 when Manu is available. JJ offers more organisation and reliability but Manu is the one English man with the ability to turn a game on its head and we could certainly do with a little more carrying power in the midfield.

Youngs' kicking was very good. His passing is still horrid.

DaveM wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Interesting shout....no Farrell..

I don't think there is any chance of Farrell not being involved in 15 months' time. Farrell at 10 and Mallinder at 12 seems possible.

I think Farrell has more chance of learning Ford's awareness of space, than Ford has of becoming a world class kicker and a top class tackler.

Ford makes more of his tackles than Farrell does.

Watching Mallinder in the U20's, the lad will be in the England squad as a 12 within the year.

Youngs had a good series but his passing was still awful. His kicking was at times sublime though, step up Dan Robson. Backline in 18 months....

9. Robson
10. Ford
11. May
12. Mallinder
13. JJ
14. Yarde
15. Watson

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ford makes more of his tackles than Farrell does.

Interesting (do you have the stat?), though Ford has to make more tackles because he's targeted. Whilst his technique is good, running in to him is not seen as risky.

Also in the 12 channel it's "easier to miss tackles". In the 10 channel, attackers have no choice but to run over you.

It would be interesting to know whether Wilkinson had to do fewer tackles than say, Hodgeson, as attackers would learn to avoid him.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:So whos the players coming in from the JWC?

Mallinder and Evans I reckon. Though it may be they end up in the Saxons squads as opposed to the senior one.

PropDavid, Youngs starts ahead of Care because he offers pace and creation like Care but also far superior game management and a top notch kicking game. He was exceptional this tour and in particular in the final test.

I think Jones has settled on dual playmakers but it'll be interesting to see what he does at 13 when Manu is available. JJ offers more organisation and reliability but Manu is the one English man with the ability to turn a game on its head and we could certainly do with a little more carrying power in the midfield.

Agree about Care and Youngs, unless there's a serious drop in form then I think they work well as a starter and finisher.

All the speculation about Manu is pointless until he can play more then a handful of games without injury. One of the reasons we won this tour was a lack of injuries effecting the team, likewise the grand slam before that. Manu just seems constantly injured, if he's ever got fit and on form then take a look, but until then he's way behind others.

Wilkinson, though, actively sought out tackles, as in that crunching "Welcome to the RWC Final" effort he landed on Mortlock, who was playing 13.

IIRC, Jonny was actually the top tackler in the final.

No stats, just from the match. Farrell likes the big hit and it leads to more mistakes. But as you say people have targted Ford, they'll soon stop when they realise he's not weak there.

Alex_Germany wrote:
I think Farrell has more chance of learning Ford's awareness of space, than Ford has of becoming a world class kicker and a top class tackler.

St Jonny never really learnt it, so no reason to assume Owen will. I admit that Owen has improved vastly as a player in the last 24 months, but he still takes longer to decide what to do, and at international level you do not have the time. He will however always be the more consistent player.

In a lot of ways the Farrell v Ford as 10s is not dissimilar to Andrew v Barnes 25 years ago.

LondonTiger wrote:

Alex_Germany wrote:
I think Farrell has more chance of learning Ford's awareness of space, than Ford has of becoming a world class kicker and a top class tackler.

St Jonny never really learnt it, so no reason to assume Owen will. I admit that Owen has improved vastly as a player in the last 24 months, but he still takes longer to decide what to do, and at international level you do not have the time. He will however always be the more consistent player.

In a lot of ways the Farrell v Ford as 10s is not dissimilar to Andrew v Barnes 25 years ago.

Or Wilkinson versus Hodgeson?

Of course, neither were really a debate. Andrew and Wilkinson were in if fit. (IIRC - a handful of times Barnes got selected to try and get England moving, but they always reverted to Andrew).

LT, I don't think that's right. Wilkinson had great awareness of space that he could exploit with his kicking and cut-out passes, he just didn't have the running game to exploit it ball in hand.

Likewise, Farrell has always had a good sense of where there is space on the pitch, but he's a very direct runner. Maybe his league heritage?

Mallinder is interesting in that regard - for a big lad he has an eye for a gap, though at the moment it looks to me like he needs a fraction more power or early acceleration to exploit it - he's too big a target to just dance through like Ford does.

P4,

Until very late in his career, I believe Jonny had to be told what to do by either a strong 9 or 12. His short kicking game, from hand, was much better than his long tactical game, however I always felt he had pre-decided what to do. Hodgson always had a much more innate sense of how and when to attack.

Ford has an RL background as much as Farrell has



If it was either/or I would probably plump for Farrell as I rate consistency. However I do not believe we can win a World Cup with just consistency, so.......

Probably because of his size but all though the U20 tournament Mallinder looked like me took contact too often, might also be because he's more used to 12 then 10. But st the moment he doesn't have the speed of thought that a true 20 like Ford had at the same age. He reminds me of James Hook tbh.

Mallinder was only standing in at 10, will surely never be his position going forward. I hope he can be the 12 we are looking for, but first that needs his dad to play him there rather than FB or Wing.

DaveM wrote:
Am I remembering this incorrectly, or did Jones fairly recently say something like 'One thing is for sure. Tuilagi isn't a 13'?

He did say that, but then he says so much stuff that does not then compute with what he does. He seems to like to use the press as a way to fire a rocket up people's arses.

LondonTiger wrote:

If it was either/or I would probably plump for Farrell as I rate consistency. However I do not believe we can win a World Cup with just consistency, so.......

So you play a creative 12, like Mallinder or Slade. I don't think there is an international coach in the world who would seriously go with Ford over Farrell if you were picking just one of them.

Also, I'd say we won in 2003 with consistency (that side was past its creative best), and SA did the same 4 years' later.

LondonTiger wrote:

DaveM wrote:
Am I remembering this incorrectly, or did Jones fairly recently say something like 'One thing is for sure. Tuilagi isn't a 13'?

He did say that, but then he says so much stuff that does not then compute with what he does. He seems to like to use the press as a way to fire a rocket up people's arses.

It is a pretty clear statement though. Also Leicester seem to be seeing him as a 12 now.

Tbh, I think his body is struggling to cope (he's a big lad, and obviously puts a of strain on himself). I'm not sure he'll be able to stay fit long enough to work his way in. I also suspect Jones will fast-track Mallinder.

Alex_Germany wrote:

DaveM wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Interesting shout....no Farrell..

I don't think there is any chance of Farrell not being involved in 15 months' time. Farrell at 10 and Mallinder at 12 seems possible.

I think Farrell has more chance of learning Ford's awareness of space, than Ford has of becoming a world class kicker and a top class tackler.

I don't think you can learn that awareness and time on the ball. Sometimes you can with experience but Ford is so instinctive he's already way ahead in that regard. Ford can kick well but he doesn't do it consistently. Any would be playmaker may well try and take the 12 shirt by showing a reliable boot and then more than Farrell ball in hand.

I think he talked up Manu at 12 because that where he wanted Tigers to play him. Given he seems to have settled in dual playmakers he might well change his tune with Tigers more likely to move him back to 13 with Toomua signing as the new 12.

DaveM wrote:I don't think there is an international coach in the world who would seriously go with Ford over Farrell if you were picking just one of them.

...or at least one who didnt resign after doing that at the world cup

DaveM wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

DaveM wrote:
Am I remembering this incorrectly, or did Jones fairly recently say something like 'One thing is for sure. Tuilagi isn't a 13'?

He did say that, but then he says so much stuff that does not then compute with what he does. He seems to like to use the press as a way to fire a rocket up people's arses.

It is a pretty clear statement though. Also Leicester seem to be seeing him as a 12 now.

Tbh, I think his body is struggling to cope (he's a big lad, and obviously puts a of strain on himself). I'm not sure he'll be able to stay fit long enough to work his way in. I also suspect Jones will fast-track Mallinder.

Tuilagi is all about explosive power. Too early to say where he is going to be at but I think there is a good chance he'll finally get over the injury thing. It may well be that missing all the time he has will mean that his body has not had the wear and tear over this period that it might of and his career will be longer. That is all idle and very hopeful speculation.

I would suspect that the only actual similarity between Mallinder and Tuilagi is size (although Mallinder is, or will be, bigger). I don't think he'll have that same explosive power but will take some stopping when he's in full flight. He does however have a lot more to offer in all round skills, not least a very good boot.

A Mallinder/Tuilagi midfield would a huge combo!

DaveM wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

DaveM wrote:
Am I remembering this incorrectly, or did Jones fairly recently say something like 'One thing is for sure. Tuilagi isn't a 13'?

He did say that, but then he says so much stuff that does not then compute with what he does. He seems to like to use the press as a way to fire a rocket up people's arses.

It is a pretty clear statement though.

Yet no clearer a statement than his assertion that Haskell was not and would not be an openside.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:A Mallinder/Tuilagi midfield would a huge combo!

Assuming Prince Harry develops as expected and Tuilagi does indeed recover, then the mid-field could be a real attacking strength and very difficult to handle.

LondonTiger wrote:

DaveM wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

DaveM wrote:
Am I remembering this incorrectly, or did Jones fairly recently say something like 'One thing is for sure. Tuilagi isn't a 13'?

He did say that, but then he says so much stuff that does not then compute with what he does. He seems to like to use the press as a way to fire a rocket up people's arses.

It is a pretty clear statement though.

Yet no clearer a statement than his assertion that Haskell was not and would not be an openside.

Well he was very clear that Robshaw wasn't a 6, and hasn't started him at 7 since then. I thought with Haskell he said something like he wasn't what he was looking for at 7, but there was no suitable alternative and he was playing so well he couldn't be dropped.

Tuilagi isn't in the side to not be dropped, and there are plenty of options at 13. If I were Jones I'd want Tuilagi to stay basically fit from the start of the season until the 6 Nations squad announcement before I'd risk involving him in my plans. I'd also have to have changed my mind about Tuilagi's ability suitability to play 13. Mallinder could be a game changer there.

On the other hand, with Farrell and Mallinder at 10/12 there is no need for a physical presence at 13. Something like Farrell, Mallinder, Slade (we have to get him into the side somehow in my view) would be interesting.

I think if we could teach Ford to kick he'd be a better option at 10 than Farrell, if we were to go either/or. He just needs the consistency but my feeling is we score more tries with Ford at 10. We got the bonus point against Fiji in the WC with Ford at 10 (both Australia and Wales failed her before he was dropped, after which we proceeded to score just 2 tries in the next 2 games.

Slade is not a top 13, he's not the power or gas to play there. He'll develop at 10 or 12, not 13. He's unlucky perhaps that Mallinder has come along and he's not took his chances, things move so fast.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Slade is not a top 13, he's not the power or gas to play there. He'll develop at 10 or 12, not 13. He's unlucky perhaps that Mallinder has come along and he's not took his chances, things move so fast.

Slade is quick, or at least he was pre-injury. I'd say he's quicker than Tomkins say, and the latter may yet play 13 for England. As Slade plays 13 so regularly at club level, and as it is his club form which got him noticed by England, it doesn't feel like a crazy idea to give him his international debut at 13.

Actually Slade and Tuilagi, if both fit and in form, interchanging as appropriate, could be a very interesting midfield as we wait for Harry.....

Slade has already played for England at 13, alongside Burgess in friendlies before the RWC.

Mallinder may or may not get much bigger. He's not got the acceleration to make an explosive impact ala Tuilagi he's a more skillful Twelvetrees and can hopefully be the international player we hoped Billy would become.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Slade has already played for England at 13, alongside Burgess in friendlies before the RWC.

Mallinder may or may not get much bigger. He's not got the acceleration to make an explosive impact ala Tuilagi he's a more skillful Twelvetrees and can hopefully be the international player we hoped Billy would become.

I'd forgotten about that. Slade alongside a 'lump' worked ok didn't it?

Despite the fact I think Farrell has qualities which win Test matches and which means Jones will almost certainly keep picking him, if Mallinder can keep the kicking up then I could imagine him playing alongside Ford (the comic effect might be distracting apart from anything else).

Slade is well down the pecking order at 13, behind JJ/Daly and Manu at least.

His skill set is certainly more suited to 10/12 role, I think he'll end up at battling it out for the 10 shirt tbh.

Sure he could play any of them.

To varying levels of quality he probably could. There's arguably more competition at 13 though and he's not that good there anyway imo.

hmm, can't agree on that. Better than Daly for my money and a better fit initially to the covering positions from bench.

Think Slade and Daly in the 22 and 23 shirts covers 10-15 pretty well

No 7&1/2 wrote:hmm, can't agree on that. Better than Daly for my money and a better fit initially to the covering positions from bench.

Daly is a better 13 imo, both players offer different things I suppose. I like a 13 to have an outside break or power to break the line, I don't think Slade has either of these. Both cover numerous positions though and make good bench options.

Daly: 12/13/14/15
Slade: 10/12/13/15?

Daly has been asked to cover 12, don't think he'd be great there myself. Balance as ever is the key.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:To varying levels of quality he probably could. There's arguably more competition at 13 though and he's not that good there anyway imo.

He's played the vast majority of his club rugby at 13, so if you don't think he's any good there then you must be struggling to think of games where he has impressed you (I have a vague recollection he's never started a game at 12, and he doesn't play 10 very often). He's got an excellent outside break.

Devoto has presumably been brought in to play 12. This implies Slade will mainly play 13, with the odd appearance at 10 next season.

DaveM wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:To varying levels of quality he probably could. There's arguably more competition at 13 though and he's not that good there anyway imo.

He's played the vast majority of his club rugby at 13, so if you don't think he's any good there then you must be struggling to think of games where he has impressed you (I have a vague recollection he's never started a game at 12, and he doesn't play 10 very often). He's got an excellent outside break.

Devoto has presumably been brought in to play 12. This implies Slade will mainly play 13, with the odd appearance at 10 next season.

Yea pretty much. He's not done a whole a great deal to warrant such hype but he does have plenty of potential. I don't think he's played 12 either but I imagine he'll get more and more game time at 10 next season in a backline of:

10. Slade
12. Devoto/Hill
13. Campanagro/Devoto/Slade

I really like Slade but he seems to be held in very high regard by a number of posters on here without actually doing that much. In the big games I've seen with him playing, he hasn't really delivered.

Was Slade fit when Devoto was on the bench for England?

Slade was injured for the 6N as far as I can recall.

No, out with a broken leg. It was well ahead of time that he even played again this season and went to Aus.

Slade is class Pooly, I think there is a popular movement against him following the Prem final but as the EU vote proves, popular vote doesn't mean it's right!

I do like him 7 but I think he gets overrated on here a little, he's certainly not got this gas I've seen mentioned on here a few times. He's got bags of talent but as 10(perhaps 12) imo.

I'd definitely think those are his best 2 positions, he could play 13 to a higher standard than Daly could at 12 though.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'd definitely think those are his best 2 positions, he could play 13 to a higher standard than Daly could at 12 though.

I've not seen Daly at 12, have you?

No I haven't. I don't think he has the skills for there though. Not really a play maker, nor a bruiser. What do you think he'd bring there?