Are the WRU increasing the funds for NDC's ?

First topic message reminder :

I was reading the following article on Friday:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/leigh-halfpenny-could-set-sensational-11518932

And this bit got me intrigued:-


"The WRU has an extra £500,000 to spend on National Dual Contracts after agreeing to increase the pot with the regions, and it’s understood the prolific points-scorer is a prime target."

I cannot find any other news of this elsewhere, and I am surprised nobody has alluded to it on here, especially the way Phil goes on about funding and paying the right prices for players. So we could see some activity with more Welsh players coming back over the summer, or keeping players here for longer.

Does anybody else know of this news ?

No 7&1/2 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:They are. You said you should be targeting the wealthy, now only the locals?

You seem unaware that the locals are the wealthy. That seems the root of your confusion in this thread.

So you are saying they should only target the wealthy.

No.

So they should be targeting everyone. This could go on for days. Do you wnat to have a little think about this all again.

No 7&1/2 wrote:So they should be targeting everyone. This could go on for days. Do you wnat to have a little think about this all again.

Alternatively, you could read the answers above and understand them.

No dog in this fight, but I think Phil is right, insofar as Cardiff would be best advised to concentrate their marketing efforts on people within the local area in the first instance. You are much more likely to get people from inside the Cardiff area to attend the evening games, Sunday games and so on than transporting people and especially families down from the valleys when public transport is not reliable (weekend rail works, etc.) or it means a late night for the children.
The outreach stuff beyond Cardiff should concentrate more on the Saturday games - maybe a combined train and ticket deal or if the rail companies are not forthcoming, maybe a deal that showing your ticket from stations outside the Cardiff area gets you £5 off the admission or kids for a quid or whatever.

PhilBB wrote:And, if you want to talk of 'crap crowds', maybe you could let us know your expectations that each of the four should be getting. I think that an average of 7k in a 500k averaged out catchment area is pretty good, you see. Maybe you disagree?

The population of Cardiff Blues catchment area is 868,200, not 500,000.

It could be a little bit more if you take into consideration, southern part of Powys which is supposed to be part of the pathway/region as well.

Irish Londoner wrote:No dog in this fight, but I think Phil is right, insofar as Cardiff would be best advised to concentrate their marketing efforts on people within the local area in the first instance.

How far has that got the Cardiff Blues though ? They need to be reaching out to the wider area's. Phil recons they already have, but they have not, I have seen nothing in Merthyr of what I have suggested, yet he used a on off instance from 4yrs ago as an example.

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:So they should be targeting everyone. This could go on for days. Do you wnat to have a little think about this all again.

Alternatively, you could read the answers above and understand them.

On your constantly shifting sands argument.

LordDowlais wrote:They need to be reaching out to the wider area's. Phil recons they already have, but they have not, I have seen nothing in Merthyr of what I have suggested, yet he used a on off instance from 4yrs ago as an example.

There are loads of initiatives in Merthyr and other mid Wales areas.

http://www.cardiffblues.com/news/6436.php#.V3z0P_krK70

http://www.cardiffblues.com/mobile/community/7954.php

Not forgetting things like this:

http://www.cardiffblues.com/news/4779.php#.V3z1bfkrK70

None of the above are what I suggested.

LordDowlais wrote:None of the above are what I suggested.

They engage just the right amount with the right people in my opinion. Some people just want to be chauffeur driven to the ground and given a free match ticket I guess.

Dai Llewod wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:None of the above are what I suggested.

They engage just the right amount with the right people in my opinion. Some people just want to be chauffeur driven to the ground and given a free match ticket I guess.

Precisely

Dai Llewod wrote:They engage just the right amount with the right people in my opinion.

Do they ? Ah, that is why Cardiff Blues have such huge crowds. Oh hang on ........

Precisely.

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:That does suggest that you believe that you should only be targeting wealthier areas.

It's not worth debating it with him, his arrogance is astounding.

BTW, I did laugh a lot at this Andy

LordDowlais wrote:

Dai Llewod wrote:They engage just the right amount with the right people in my opinion.

Do they ? Ah, that is why Cardiff Blues have such huge crowds. Oh hang on ........

Precisely.

Your'e assuming that a £5m marketing campaign throughout the "Blues region" would add to those crowd numbers.

Dai Llewod wrote:Your'e assuming that a £5m marketing campaign throughout the "Blues region" would add to those crowd numbers.

I assume doing more than they currently are, because it obviously not enough, would add to crowd numbers.

LordDowlais wrote:
The population of Cardiff Blues catchment area is 868,200, not 500,000.

It could be a little bit more if you take into consideration, southern part of Powys which is supposed to be part of the pathway/region as well.

This may come as a shock to you, but there is no catchment area. Supporters of other teams live in Cardiff and supporters of Cardiff live outside of the Pathway.

The only reliable stat is that there are four teams in South Wales and South Wales has a population of c.2m. Hence, it's roughly 500,000 each.

Any idea on why you think Welsh teams should attract significantly higher proportions of society than do the Irish and Scottish teams?

Irish Londoner wrote:No dog in this fight, but I think Phil is right, insofar as Cardiff would be best advised to concentrate their marketing efforts on people within the local area in the first instance. You are much more likely to get people from inside the Cardiff area to attend the evening games, Sunday games and so on than transporting people and especially families down from the valleys when public transport is not reliable (weekend rail works, etc.) or it means a late night for the children.
The outreach stuff beyond Cardiff should concentrate more on the Saturday games - maybe a combined train and ticket deal or if the rail companies are not forthcoming, maybe a deal that showing your ticket from stations outside the Cardiff area gets you £5 off the admission or kids for a quid or whatever.

Thanks.

It's not rocket science.

LordDowlais wrote:

Dai Llewod wrote:Your'e assuming that a £5m marketing campaign throughout the "Blues region" would add to those crowd numbers.

I assume doing more than they currently are, because it obviously not enough, would add to crowd numbers.

Exactly. You're assuming it is "obviously not enough". Without looking at any of the other factors. It's the prime argument of someone who is not primarily a season ticket holder of one of the pro teams uses to bash the crowd numbers.............'marketing' ; Without understanding any of the day to day activities that are involved in the actual marketing of these entities. I can assure you, that the regions are doing more now than they ever have. They are undertaking as much marketing in the best possible way that their budget allows. But as it's an easy, generic stick to beat them with, it will be used again and again.

LordDowlais wrote:
How far has that got the Cardiff Blues though ? They need to be reaching out to the wider area's. Phil recons they already have, but they have not, I have seen nothing in Merthyr of what I have suggested, yet he used a on off instance from 4yrs ago as an example.

Maybe you're making the mistake of thinking that nothing has happened unless you've seen it.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:So they should be targeting everyone. This could go on for days. Do you wnat to have a little think about this all again.

Alternatively, you could read the answers above and understand them.

On your constantly shifting sands argument.

No, on the rock solid argument you seem unable to grasp. As ever.

LordDowlais wrote:

Dai Llewod wrote:They engage just the right amount with the right people in my opinion.

Do they ? Ah, that is why Cardiff Blues have such huge crowds. Oh hang on ........

Precisely.

You're confusing engaging with supporters with them then making a buying decision.

Not everybody who walks through your shop buys a carpet, see?

LordDowlais wrote:
I assume doing more than they currently are, because it obviously not enough, would add to crowd numbers.

But would the expenditure justify the income gained? Let us know your thoughts on that.

Dai Llewod wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Dai Llewod wrote:Your'e assuming that a £5m marketing campaign throughout the "Blues region" would add to those crowd numbers.

I assume doing more than they currently are, because it obviously not enough, would add to crowd numbers.

Exactly. You're assuming it is "obviously not enough". Without looking at any of the other factors. It's the prime argument of someone who is not primarily a season ticket holder of one of the pro teams uses to bash the crowd numbers.............'marketing' ; Without understanding any of the day to day activities that are involved in the actual marketing of these entities. I can assure you, that the regions are doing more now than they ever have. They are undertaking as much marketing in the best possible way that their budget allows. But as it's an easy, generic stick to beat them with, it will be used again and again.

OK, if that is the way you see it, I do not want to see any more posts on here about the regions getting left behind due to lack of funding. If the regions want more funding, then they need to get it themselves. Not moan about the WRU not giving it to them.

I used the word assume as the crowds at Cardiff are always a country mile away from ever being at capacity.

PhilBB wrote:Not everybody who walks through your shop buys a carpet, see?

I have a lot of other goods other than carpets.

I do not rest on my laurels and hope everything gets better, I actually get off my @rse and try and make improvements, unlike the fab four.

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:So they should be targeting everyone. This could go on for days. Do you wnat to have a little think about this all again.

Alternatively, you could read the answers above and understand them.

On your constantly shifting sands argument.

No, on the rock solid argument you seem unable to grasp. As ever.

So is your argument that they should be targeting locals, or the wealthy?

LordDowlais wrote:

OK, if that is the way you see it, I do not want to see any more posts on here about the regions getting left behind due to lack of funding. If the regions want more funding, then they need to get it themselves. Not moan about the WRU not giving it to them.

I used the word assume as the crowds at Cardiff are always a country mile away from ever being at capacity.

Why do you think it is justified for the WRU to pay less for the services they receive than do the other Home Unions?

LordDowlais wrote:
I do not rest on my laurels and hope everything gets better, I actually get off my @rse and try and make improvements, unlike the fab four.

This is where your choice of language lets you down. You know that PRW teams are trying to make improvements, yet you write nonsense like that post.

Why do you do it? Why do you write stuff you know is untrue?

No 7&1/2 wrote:
So is your argument that they should be targeting locals, or the wealthy?

The answer hasn't changed since the last time I presented it.

PhilBB wrote:Why do you think it is justified for the WRU to pay less for the services they receive than do the other Home Unions?

I don't, but they pay for 60% of the wages for each player they pick don't they ? Why should one region get more than any other if they are not supplying as much players than their counterparts ?

Also, that would STILL not put them anywhere where they need to be. How much do you think the WRU should be paying each region for the use of their players ?

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
I do not rest on my laurels and hope everything gets better, I actually get off my @rse and try and make improvements, unlike the fab four.

This is where your choice of language lets you down. You know that PRW teams are trying to make improvements, yet you write nonsense like that post.

Why do you do it? Why do you write stuff you know is untrue?

So why is there such a difference in finances between us and everybody else ?

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:
So is your argument that they should be targeting locals, or the wealthy?

The answer hasn't changed since the last time I presented it.

So back to your point they would be better off targeting the wealthier areas.

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:Why do you think it is justified for the WRU to pay less for the services they receive than do the other Home Unions?

I don't, but they pay for 60% of the wages for each player they pick don't they ? Why should one region get more than any other if they are not supplying as much players than their counterparts ?

Also, that would STILL not put them anywhere where they need to be. How much do you think the WRU should be paying each region for the use of their players ?

No, they don't pay 60% of the wages for each player they pick.

In total, they pay millions less per year for the services provided than do the IRFU, SRU and RFU. They should pay the same.

The 'moan about lack of funding' comes from that disparity. A disparity you just noted is not justified.

Therefore, why are you having a go at people who highlight a disparity you claim is not justified? See? You're actually in agreement with the people you are taking a pop at.

So why are you doing that?

LordDowlais wrote:

So why is there such a difference in finances between us and everybody else ?

Primarily for the reason you claim is not justified: the WRU pay less for the services they receive.

And, as above, that is the 'moan' you seem to not want to read despite actually supporting it. Which itself is quite odd behaviour.

Imagine how much better our teams would be if they had another £750k each or so to spend on wages.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:
So is your argument that they should be targeting locals, or the wealthy?

The answer hasn't changed since the last time I presented it.

So back to your point they would be better off targeting the wealthier areas.

But not 'only'.

Thanks. You got there, finally.

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:
So is your argument that they should be targeting locals, or the wealthy?

The answer hasn't changed since the last time I presented it.

So back to your point they would be better off targeting the wealthier areas.

But not 'only'.

Thanks. You got there, finally.

Ah. Yes finally got it. They should be targeting wealthier and poorer areas. It's just the moderately well off they should not target, Cheers.

PhilBB wrote:In total, they pay millions less per year for the services provided than do the IRFU, SRU and RFU. They should pay the same.

How much is the difference Phil, come on, you are the one who is constantly going on about it, how much ?

Also, just to prompt you, as you have decided to ignore my other point, but why should one side get the same funding as the other if they are not supplying the same amount of players to team Wales ?

Why should Cardiff get the same as Ospreys ? Why should Dragons get the same as everybody else ?

LordDowlais wrote:
How much is the difference Phil, come on, you are the one who is constantly going on about it, how much ?

https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/reap-what-you-sow/

Have a read of that. The figures are in there.

If you want a bare comparison: "In 2012, Lewis spent £15.1m on his supply chain and included in that is broadcast and competition income that is owed directly to PRW. In 2013, it was £16.9m (again including the money owed directly to PRW). In 2013, the IRFU spent €32m"

LordDowlais wrote:

Also, just to prompt you, as you have decided to ignore my other point, but why should one side get the same funding as the other if they are not supplying the same amount of players to team Wales ?

Why should Cardiff get the same as Ospreys ? Why should Dragons get the same as everybody else ?

I agree with you. I don't think that they should. I prefer the French model of fees for selection of qualified players etc. and a daily payment for player access.

PhilBB wrote:

The 'moan about lack of funding' comes from that disparity. A disparity you just noted is not justified.

Therefore, why are you having a go at people who highlight a disparity you claim is not justified? See? You're actually in agreement with the people you are taking a pop at.

So why are you doing that?

If you're asking why questions are ignored, maybe you could address these that you have seemingly chosen to ignore.

PhilBB wrote:If you want a bare comparison: "In 2012, Lewis spent £15.1m on his supply chain and included in that is broadcast and competition income that is owed directly to PRW. In 2013, it was £16.9m (again including the money owed directly to PRW). In 2013, the IRFU spent €32m"

Phil you are comparing apples with oranges. The €32m is what the IRFU spent on THEIR own teams. Which is about £10m more than what the regions got off the WRU, in my opinion, the regions need to be making up most of that difference themselves.

LordDowlais wrote:
Phil you are comparing apples with oranges. The €32m is what the IRFU spent on THEIR own teams. Which is about £10m more than what the regions got off the WRU, in my opinion, the regions need to be making up most of that difference themselves.

No, no. I'm comparing the investment into the supply chain. I'm not comparing who owns the supply chain.

Do you want the figure from the RFU instead? You won't like it, by the way, but you won't be able to obfuscate the topic once you've got it.

Your choice.

Above, you noted that the WRU is not justified in paying less for the services it receives. Now, in this post, you are justifying it.

Maybe you'd like a minute to make up your mind on this.

No Phil, what I am saying is the regions need to do MORE. Not go about pleading poverty so one eyed fans like yourself can lap it up and substantiate it.

What I am saying is, if the WRU paid the extra you are harping on about, it would still not be enough, because the regions would still not be making enough money for themselves, because they are not fulfilling their potential.

The thing is Phil, as you keep bringing my business into this debate, I do not sit back and wait for people to come to me to buy my goods, I do things to attract people, I make myself look better than my competitors, the regions do not do enough of this.

LordDowlais wrote:No Phil, what I am saying is the regions need to do MORE. Not go about pleading poverty so one eyed fans like yourself can lap it up and substantiate it.

What I am saying is, if the WRU paid the extra you are harping on about, it would still not be enough, because the regions would still not be making enough money for themselves, because they are not fulfilling their potential.

The thing is Phil, as you keep bringing my business into this debate, I do not sit back and wait for people to come to me to buy my goods, I do things to attract people, I make myself look better than my competitors, the regions do not do enough of this.

Yes, I can substantiate that the WRU do not pay adequately for the services they received. I can substantiate it enough for you to even agree with it, as you have done in this thread.

If you had read the link I gave you earlier, you'd see that the PRW teams (bar the NGD) are making enough money for themselves under the restrictions they have. Imagine how much better they'd do with another £750,000 a year on their salary bill.

If you want to bring your business into this, you aren't doing enough of what you are claiming to do as Carpet Right is a significantly bigger business than yours. What that fact should teach you is that you can only do as much as you can.

I imagine that the three biggest teams in PRW would be able to increase their own incomes significantly IF the WRU paid properly for the services provided. Imagine that £750k extra at those three teams - think of the players that would buy. Think of the Cardiff team with Charteris and Halfpenny in it, the Ospreys team with George North and Jamie Roberts in it, or the Turks being able to get Moriarty, Faletau and Tom Francis.

You see, THAT is the primary effect of the WRU not paying adequately: it prevents PRW from putting a strong enough product on the pitch that would then attract custom.

I'm sure that you understand that, of course, from the Carpet Right analogy and the fact that you've agreed that the WRU have no justification for underpaying their suppliers.

PhilBB wrote:I'm sure that you understand that, of course, from the Carpet Right analogy and the fact that you've agreed that the WRU have no justification for underpaying their suppliers.

Yes, but it still would not be enough.

Also, I do not need to compete with Carpet right, I am doing just fine on my own. But if you went into Carpetright, you would see some of MY products in there, in the Merthyr store, and the three in Cardiff, and the two in Newport and the one in Midway park in Ponty. We work together. Perhaps that is something the regions could do. There you are another idea.

Roger Lewis has gone now. The restraints have gone, there is no reason why the regions cannot do things to improve their situation themselves without pleading poverty to the WRU.

LordDowlais wrote:Roger Lewis has gone now. The restraints have gone,

Do you repeat this constantly, in the hope that somebody will actually believe you?

You expected things to be right, the minute Lewis walked out the door? That alone shows your ignorance.

RiscaGame wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Roger Lewis has gone now. The restraints have gone,

Do you repeat this constantly, in the hope that somebody will actually believe you?

You expected things to be right, the minute Lewis walked out the door? That alone shows your ignorance.

Why don't you go take a look on your beloved Gwent Dragons thread, and see what Phil has written on there, then tell me if you agree with him.

Why don't you answer the question I asked you, while I do that?

There seems to be a bit of a pattern throughout this thread where you refuse to answer questions. Though your carpet stories filled my heart with joy of course.

RiscaGame wrote:Why don't you answer the question I asked you, while I do that?

What questions ?

RiscaGame wrote:You expected things to be right, the minute Lewis walked out the door?

No I expected things to be right when the regions went to war with the WRU and won. They got what they wanted, yet they are STILL harping on at the WRU, whta do you suggest, another war ?

LordDowlais wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:Why don't you answer the question I asked you, while I do that?

What questions ?

RiscaGame wrote:You expected things to be right, the minute Lewis walked out the door?

No I expected things to be right when the regions went to war with the WRU and won. They got what they wanted, yet they are STILL harping on at the WRU, whta do you suggest, another war ?

I said question in the quote you quoted and you answered it in the same post? That's daft even by your usual standards.

They didn't win and get what they wanted, they settled. If they got what they wanted, why would they be harping on about the WRU? That doesn't make sense to me. Also, why did you post articles yourself previously, bemoaning the fact the budgets for the Regions are less than their rivals?

LordDowlais wrote:

Yes, but it still would not be enough.

Also, I do not need to compete with Carpet right, I am doing just fine on my own. But if you went into Carpetright, you would see some of MY products in there, in the Merthyr store, and the three in Cardiff, and the two in Newport and the one in Midway park in Ponty. We work together. Perhaps that is something the regions could do. There you are another idea.

Roger Lewis has gone now. The restraints have gone, there is no reason why the regions cannot do things to improve their situation themselves without pleading poverty to the WRU.

Yes, it would be enough. That's the point you somehow don't want to grasp.

The Regions already do work together. It's called PRW. Remember?

Roger Lewis' contract is in place. It hasn't gone. Remember?

You are in competition with Carpet Right. If I want to buy a carpet, I either buy it from there or from you. That's competition. They are bigger than you. Why is that?