Are the WRU increasing the funds for NDC's ?

by LordDowlais Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

I was reading the following article on Friday:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/leigh-halfpenny-could-set-sensational-11518932

And this bit got me intrigued:-

"The WRU has an extra £500,000 to spend on National Dual Contracts after agreeing to increase the pot with the regions, and it’s understood the prolific points-scorer is a prime target."

I cannot find any other news of this elsewhere, and I am surprised nobody has alluded to it on here, especially the way Phil goes on about funding and paying the right prices for players. So we could see some activity with more Welsh players coming back over the summer, or keeping players here for longer.

Does anybody else know of this news ?

by Dai Llewod Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:51 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Dai Llewod wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:

When I get five minutes I will go through them all for you.

Any chance?

The players that have left (19 - 3/4 props, 2/4 locks, 2 backrows; 3 scrum halves, 2 fly halves, 1 centre, 4 back three)
Michael Collins (back 3), George Earle (lock), Kieran Hardy (scrum half), Phil John (prop), Jack Jones (lock), Rhodri Jones (prop), Regan King (centre), Kirby Myhill (hooker), Torin Myhill (hooker), Josh Lewis (fly half), Ben Leung (prop), Connor Lloyd (scrum half), Maselino Paulino (lock/backrow), Jack Payne (prop/lock/backrow poor sod),Harry Robinson (back 3), Steve Shingler (fly half), Michael Tagicakibau (back 3), Jordan Williams (fly half/back 3), Rhodri Williams (scrum half)

And the players who have joined (10 - 1 prop, 1/2 locks, 1/2 backrows; 1 scrum half, 1 fly half, 1 centre, 2 back three)
Tadgh Beirne (Lock/Backrow), Jonathan Davies (Centre), Rhys Patchell (Fly Half), Werner Kruger (Prop), Jonathan Evans (Scrum Half), Rynier Bernardo (Lock), Dafydd Hughes (backrow), Shaun Evans (Hooker), Johnny McNicholl (Back 3), Richard Smith (Back 3)

So even before we look at the respective talent, you're telling me that 19 have left, and 10 have joined.

Do you still think that of the players that have left, the Scarlets have "upgraded on most of those players"?

by LordDowlais Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:55 am

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Cardiff tried both of those.

I cannot remember seeing free buses from Merthyr RFC.

Here's an example: http://www.cardiffblues.com/news/2385.php#.V3UwV8f7ihQ

Yes and well done, but they could do more, like I said, they are not doing it with every club in their "pathway". Also, that was just a one off,in 2012, they should be rolling this out across the catchment area for every home game.

by PhilBB Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:03 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Yes and well done, but they could do more, like I said, they are not doing it with every club in their "pathway". Also, that was just a one off,in 2012, they should be rolling this out across the catchment area for every home game.

That offer was open to every club in the Pathway. There was no demand for it. It wasn't a one off.

The offer failed due to a lack of demand.

Hence, it wasn't a very good idea. Do you have any more?

by LordDowlais Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:10 am

PhilBB wrote:That offer was open to every club in the Pathway. There was no demand for it. It wasn't a one off.

Show me some evidence to prove that what you have just typed is true.

by PhilBB Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:25 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:That offer was open to every club in the Pathway. There was no demand for it. It wasn't a one off.

Show me some evidence to prove that what you have just typed is true.

From memory, it was part of the 'Blues Rewards' that get offered to all clubs and schools in the Pathway each year.

I'm not sure what 'evidence' I can provide for that, sorry.

Feel free to claim it never happened, of course. And feel free to point out the value of sending busses to 82 rugby clubs when CAP is the easiest ground in Wales to get to.

by LordDowlais Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:29 am

PhilBB wrote:Feel free to claim it never happened, of course. And feel free to point out the value of sending busses to 82 rugby clubs when CAP is the easiest ground in Wales to get to.

The thing is my old chum, the Blues pathway goes through some of the poorest parts of the UK, it might be the easiest ground to get to, but it is not the cheapest, and if people saw the fact that could save a few quid by having free transport down, it could entice them. Why can't they do a scheme where you buy your ticket for the game off the bus driver and that price includes your transport ?

by LordDowlais Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:32 am

PhilBB wrote:I'm not sure what 'evidence' I can provide for that, sorry.

You cannot provide evidence because it ain't true.

by PhilBB Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:34 am

LordDowlais wrote:
The thing is my old chum, the Blues pathway goes through some of the poorest parts of the UK, it might be the easiest ground to get to, but it is not the cheapest, and if people saw the fact that could save a few quid by having free transport down, it could entice them. Why can't they do a scheme where you buy your ticket for the game off the bus driver and that price includes your transport ?

They did that, too, but it didn't work. Well, not quite. They teamed up with a bus company that offered free travel if you had a match day ticket.

You see, there's little point targeting 'some of the poorest parts of the UK' with a product that they can get for free from their TV.

They are far better off targeting some of the wealthiest parts of Wales that are, relatively, on their doorstep. As a successful businessman, I'm sure that you'd agree with that.

So, any other ideas that you have? And have you had 5 minutes for your Scarlets assessment?

by PhilBB Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:35 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:I'm not sure what 'evidence' I can provide for that, sorry.

You cannot provide evidence because it ain't true.

Right, I see. So they ran it as a one off and, because it was so successful and they had so much interest, they just stopped doing it.

Or, perhaps, there was so little interest in it that they realised it was a daft idea.

by LordDowlais Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:41 am

PhilBB wrote:
They are far better off targeting some of the wealthiest parts of Wales that are, relatively, on their doorstep. As a successful businessman, I'm sure that you'd agree with that.

And here it is, the arrogance of it. So other area's should not be privvy to pro rugby then should they ?

If the fab four should only concentrate with whats on their door step, then they will be doomed to failure and to get left behind by their rivals. You are the epitome of what is wrong with our rugby culture in Wales. People like you all like to rip into Pontypridd fans, yet you yourself would have nothing to do with any of them as they are not on your doorstep.

Feck off Jack, I'm alright. Rolling Eyes

by LordDowlais Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:43 am

PhilBB wrote:Right, I see. So they ran it as a one off and, because it was so successful and they had so much interest, they just stopped doing it.

That seems to be the jist of it. Or it could be that it was successful but when the travelling fans got to Cardiff, they were told to sod off as you are not from our doorstep. Thus they did not bother again.

by PhilBB Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:45 am

LordDowlais wrote:

And here it is, the arrogance of it. So other area's should not be privvy to pro rugby then should they ?

If the fab four should only concentrate with whats on their door step, then they will be doomed to failure and to get left behind by their rivals. You are the epitome of what is wrong with our rugby culture in Wales. People like you all like to rip into Pontypridd fans, yet you yourself would have nothing to do with any of them as they are not on your doorstep.

Feck off Jack, I'm alright.

Funnily enough, Sardis Road is pretty much on my doorstep.

However, I'm not sure what point you are making here. You, yourself, noted that the Pathway includes "some of the poorest parts of the UK".

Are you thinking that those from 'some of the poorest parts of the UK' should pay less than those who aren't? Are you seeking some kind of means tested ticket price?

If not, I really don't know what point you are making here.

by PhilBB Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:46 am

LordDowlais wrote:
That seems to be the jist of it. Or it could be that it was successful but when the travelling fans got to Cardiff, they were told to sod off as you are not from our doorstep. Thus they did not bother again.

What would be your measure of success? Let's say only one club took up the offer - is that 'success'?

I'm sure that if a coach load had been verbally attacked and told to 'sod off' then the media would have reported it. So maybe you could justify that claim? Or you could just admit "You cannot provide evidence because it ain't true."

Yes?

by LordDowlais Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:48 am

PhilBB wrote:Are you thinking that those from 'some of the poorest parts of the UK' should pay less than those who aren't? Are you seeking some kind of means tested ticket price?

What I am saying is, perhaps Cardiff Blues should try and get people from outside of Cardiff interested in them. I know that people would travel down from the many rugby clubs in Merthyr if there was free transport. Imagine the parents who would take their kids if they paid for their ticket off the driver and could get to and from the grounds for free. In the grand scheme of things it would not cost as much as they make, if it caught on.

by LordDowlais Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:51 am

PhilBB wrote:What would be your measure of success? Let's say only one club took up the offer - is that 'success'?

If it was only one coach, it would be a success, it would be one more coach than what you are getting now.

PhilBB wrote:I'm sure that if a coach load had been verbally attacked and told to 'sod off' then the media would have reported it. So maybe you could justify that claim? Or you could just admit "You cannot provide evidence because it ain't true."

The evidence has been typed on this very thread, by you. in your words Phil:-

"They are far better off targeting some of the wealthiest parts of Wales that are, relatively, on their doorstep."

by PhilBB Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:52 am

LordDowlais wrote:
What I am saying is, perhaps Cardiff Blues should try and get people from outside of Cardiff interested in them. I know that people would travel down from the many rugby clubs in Merthyr if there was free transport. Imagine the parents who would take their kids if they paid for their ticket off the driver and could get to and from the grounds for free. In the grand scheme of things it would not cost as much as they make, if it caught on.

But they had their chance for free transport and didn't take it? So what are you basing this on?

Also, if the game kicks off at 19:30, how many parents and kids are going to go to the game?

I do, however, agree with your wider point about free public transport to ticket holders. This is the way the Aussies do it, in the main. I don't see why Aviva trains and Cardiff Blues can't come to a deal for match day travel.

Sending 82 coaches to rugby clubs, however, is just not a good idea at all.

by PhilBB Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:53 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:What would be your measure of success? Let's say only one club took up the offer - is that 'success'?

If it was only one coach, it would be a success, it would be one more coach than what you are getting now.

For that to hold true, you'd have to know none on that one coach would have gone to the game anyway. Yes?

by PhilBB Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:55 am

LordDowlais wrote:
The evidence has been typed on this very thread, by you. in your words Phil:-

"They are far better off targeting some of the wealthiest parts of Wales that are, relatively, on their doorstep."

So you've extrapolated 'far better off targeting some of the wealthiest parts of Wales' with actively being hostile to other parts of the pathway.

Have you seriously done that? I mean, what on earth kind of thinking is that? Are we expecting the ticket checkers to undertake social cleansing at the Gwyn Nicholls gate or will you admit that your logic leap is baseless?

I'm hoping the latter, for it's obvious.

by LordDowlais Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:56 am

PhilBB wrote:For that to hold true, you'd have to know none on that one coach would have gone to the game anyway. Yes?

We would have to ask them to know that. But you are just splitting hairs. You know exactly what I meant, you may be many things Phil, but you are not stupid.

by PhilBB Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:57 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:For that to hold true, you'd have to know none on that one coach would have gone to the game anyway. Yes?

We would have to ask them to know that. But you are just splitting hairs. You know exactly what I meant, you may be many things Phil, but you are not stupid.

Indeed, which is why I'm pointing out that "If it was only one coach, it would be a success, it would be one more coach than what you are getting now." is a stupid statement as you cannot quantify it.

by LordDowlais Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:58 am

PhilBB wrote:Have you seriously done that? I mean, what on earth kind of thinking is that? Are we expecting the ticket checkers to undertake social cleansing at the Gwyn Nicholls gate or will you admit that your logic leap is baseless?

Phil, it is obviously your attitude towards pro rugby, as you have brought it up. Also, we have been down this road with each other before, as you are well aware. So lets not pretend you you meant something else by it.

by PhilBB Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:00 am

LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Have you seriously done that? I mean, what on earth kind of thinking is that? Are we expecting the ticket checkers to undertake social cleansing at the Gwyn Nicholls gate or will you admit that your logic leap is baseless?

Phil, it is obviously your attitude towards pro rugby, as you have brought it up. Also, we have been down this road with each other before, as you are well aware. So lets not pretend you you meant something else by it.

Sorry, but you're now becoming incoherent.

The idea that targeting efforts to the wealthier catchment areas equates to telling others to 'sod off' is ludicrous, false and stupid. You know this, so don't try to stand by a thought you know to be nonsense.

I'm sure that your own business targets customers locally. You may advertise in the local newspaper. However, if a chap from Kidwelly comes to you for a carpet you wouldn't tell him to 'sod off'. We all know this, so don't try to stand by your ludicrous comment that a rugby club would behave differently from how you behave in business.

by LordDowlais Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:11 am

No Phil, you made a statement that Cardiff Blues should only be targeting the wealthier area's, and those area's on their doorstep.

Why is this Phil ? Do the poorer areas, that are not on the doorstep not deserve pro rugby ?

by PhilBB Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:44 pm

LordDowlais wrote:No Phil, you made a statement that Cardiff Blues should only be targeting the wealthier area's, and those area's on their doorstep.

Why is this Phil ? Do the poorer areas, that are not on the doorstep not deserve pro rugby ?

I wrote "They are far better off targeting some of the wealthiest parts of Wales that are, relatively, on their doorstep".

"Far better off" doesn't not equate to "only be targeting". Please, therefore, try to address the words that are actually written.

Nobody deserves pro rugby, of course.

by No 7&1/2 Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:06 pm

'You see, there's little point targeting 'some of the poorest parts of the UK' with a product that they can get for free from their TV.

They are far better off targeting some of the wealthiest parts of Wales that are, relatively, on their doorstep. As a successful businessman, I'm sure that you'd agree with that.'

That does suggest that you believe that you should only be targeting wealthier areas.

by LordDowlais Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:09 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:That does suggest that you believe that you should only be targeting wealthier areas.

It's not worth debating it with him, his arrogance is astounding.

by PhilBB Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:19 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:'You see, there's little point targeting 'some of the poorest parts of the UK' with a product that they can get for free from their TV.

They are far better off targeting some of the wealthiest parts of Wales that are, relatively, on their doorstep. As a successful businessman, I'm sure that you'd agree with that.'

That does suggest that you believe that you should only be targeting wealthier areas.

If I'd wanted to write that, I would have done.

It's quite obvious that if you have a marketing budget of £100, you are far better off attracting people closer to the ground that spending £100 on a bus from over an hour away in an area of socio-economic deprivation.

Most marketing in Wales cannot be localised to that degree, of course, which is why it is impossible to wisely use words like 'only'.

by PhilBB Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:20 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:That does suggest that you believe that you should only be targeting wealthier areas.

It's not worth debating it with him, his arrogance is astounding.

Thanks for the insults, but how about you take issue with the words I've actually typed rather than your false interpretation of them?

I know you're smarting after the many times I've disproved your claims, but there's no need to hold a grudge.

by LordDowlais Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:23 pm

I do not hold a grudge Phil, also what you think you may have done is different to what you have done.

You attitude that there is nothing outside of Cardiff is astounding. Even though the person pumping his millions into Cardiff is from the valleys. I would hazard a guess that there are more businesses and people with money outside of Cardiff rather than in the city itself.

by No 7&1/2 Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:29 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:'You see, there's little point targeting 'some of the poorest parts of the UK' with a product that they can get for free from their TV.

They are far better off targeting some of the wealthiest parts of Wales that are, relatively, on their doorstep. As a successful businessman, I'm sure that you'd agree with that.'

That does suggest that you believe that you should only be targeting wealthier areas.

If I'd wanted to write that, I would have done.

It's quite obvious that if you have a marketing budget of £100, you are far better off attracting people closer to the ground that spending £100 on a bus from over an hour away in an area of socio-economic deprivation.

Most marketing in Wales cannot be localised to that degree, of course, which is why it is impossible to wisely use words like 'only'.

You did write it Phil. There for all to see.

by PhilBB Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:45 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I do not hold a grudge Phil, also what you think you may have done is different to what you have done.

You attitude that there is nothing outside of Cardiff is astounding. Even though the person pumping his millions into Cardiff is from the valleys. I would hazard a guess that there are more businesses and people with money outside of Cardiff rather than in the city itself.

You do realise that I live outside of Cardiff, right? You know, just to completely disprove what you claim my 'attitude' to be.

You should actually interact with the words I type, seek clarification if you're unsure, rather than attach your prejudice to it.

by PhilBB Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:46 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:

You did write it Phil. There for all to see.

Yes, what I wrote is there for all to see and it in no way uses the word 'only'.

by ScarletSpiderman Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:50 pm

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I do not hold a grudge Phil, also what you think you may have done is different to what you have done.

You attitude that there is nothing outside of Cardiff is astounding. Even though the person pumping his millions into Cardiff is from the valleys. I would hazard a guess that there are more businesses and people with money outside of Cardiff rather than in the city itself.

You do realise that I live outside of Cardiff, right? You know, just to completely disprove what you claim my 'attitude' to be.

You should actually interact with the words I type, seek clarification if you're unsure, rather than attach your prejudice to it.

Ah now your sporadic appearances on here, replying to posts from weeks ago, makes sense. You only post on here when you are in the big city, where there is electric. Hug

by No 7&1/2 Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:50 pm

Ah so what you really meant to say was that they sould be targeting everyone.

by PhilBB Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:53 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ah so what you really meant to say was that they sould be targeting everyone.

No.

Are we going to play your silly game of woeful English comprehension? Let's not.

by No 7&1/2 Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:55 pm

Let's just get this one point straight. Were you saying that they should target the wealthier areas, or all areas?

by PhilBB Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:59 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Let's just get this one point straight. Were you saying that they should target the wealthier areas, or all areas?

The immediate targets should be people living within short travel distance of the ground and those working in the City Centre.

You can't 'target' all, else it isn't a 'target'.

Can we quit this GCSE Marketing exercise in stating the obvious now? I know you like to play these silly games but they prove nothing.

by No 7&1/2 Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:02 pm

So we go back to them targeting the wealthier areas on their doorstep and not some of the poorest areas in the UK as you said in your original point then. So LD was correct.

by PhilBB Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:04 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:So we go back to them targeting the wealthier areas on their doorstep and not some of the poorest areas in the UK as you said in your original point then. So LD was correct.

My friend, you need to learn the difference between 'immediate' and 'only'.

Sorry to urine on those chips.

by No 7&1/2 Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:05 pm

Ah so they're going to target both.

by PhilBB Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:10 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ah so they're going to target both.

You must have missed this sentence when I wrote it above:

"Most marketing in Wales cannot be localised to that degree, of course, which is why it is impossible to wisely use words like 'only'."

Happy to help.

by No 7&1/2 Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:11 pm

So it sounds like you can't make your mind up then Phil.

by PhilBB Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:33 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:So it sounds like you can't make your mind up then Phil.

Ah, the old 'pretend black is white game' that you like to play.

What's your take on the subject of marketing in Welsh rugby?

by No 7&1/2 Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:42 pm

You keep changing your tune Phil, you suggested the smart thing was to target the wealthier areas on their doorstep (relatively) rather than the poorer areas.Now you're saying the target should be the areas on their doorstep?

I think any rugby club should be looking at their core local area, making sure that any guys who are just seen as poorer aren't simply ignored as it's not seen as profitable. Taking an example of Boro in football, there are regular offers and reductions in place for to take kids, 2 for 1s etc as quite rightly the club is viewed as the areas club.

by LordDowlais Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:45 pm

So Phil, you reckon Cardiff should prioritise the wealthier, more local support ? Hows that going ? Oh yeah, crap. Gates of 5000 for top flight rugby. You have to see your faulty logic when you complain about the regions being left behind due to lack of funding, yet you then dismiss working harder to get support from the wider surrounding area's.

There are lot's of big businesses up and down the valleys, there are lots of people who can support a team in their pathway/region. Or would you rather the WRU filled the void left by the teams who do not market their product better ?

by PhilBB Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:48 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:You keep changing your tune Phil, you suggested the smart thing was to target the wealthier areas on their doorstep (relatively) rather than the poorer areas.Now you're saying the target should be the areas on their doorstep?

I think any rugby club should be looking at their core local area, making sure that any guys who are just seen as poorer aren't simply ignored as it's not seen as profitable. Taking an example of Boro in football, there are regular offers and reductions in place for to take kids, 2 for 1s etc as quite rightly the club is viewed as the areas club.

Can you not see that your first sentence is confirmed by the second? You've written them as though they are something different.

by No 7&1/2 Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:52 pm

They are. You said you should be targeting the wealthy, now only the locals?

by PhilBB Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:53 pm

LordDowlais wrote:So Phil, you reckon Cardiff should prioritise the wealthier, more local support ? Hows that going ? Oh yeah, crap. Gates of 5000 for top flight rugby. You have to see your faulty logic when you complain about the regions being left behind due to lack of funding, yet you then dismiss working harder to get support from the wider surrounding area's.

There are lot's of big businesses up and down the valleys, there are lots of people who can support a team in their pathway/region. Or would you rather the WRU filled the void left by the teams who do not market their product better ?

Sorry, but could you point me to the post in which you think I 'dismissed' 'working hard to get support' from any area?

You won't be able to, because I have done no such thing.

All I did here was ask you to come up with some ideas and then pointed out that the ones you suggested had already failed. Can the club do much more to attract support? Undoubtedly. Should it be working harder to do so? Undoubtedly? Will those efforts result in increased ticket sales for the PrO'12? I doubt it.

There, I hope that is nice and clear for you.

And, if you want to talk of 'crap crowds', maybe you could let us know your expectations that each of the four should be getting. I think that an average of 7k in a 500k averaged out catchment area is pretty good, you see. Maybe you disagree?

by PhilBB Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:53 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:They are. You said you should be targeting the wealthy, now only the locals?

You seem unaware that the locals are the wealthy. That seems the root of your confusion in this thread.

by No 7&1/2 Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:55 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:They are. You said you should be targeting the wealthy, now only the locals?

You seem unaware that the locals are the wealthy. That seems the root of your confusion in this thread.

So you are saying they should only target the wealthy.

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