LV Cup Returns

First topic message reminder :

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/anglo-welsh-cup-return-next-11548179

Good to see the Anglo-Welsh Cup is back.

profitius wrote:

It seems all the Irish/Scots did was give the WRU a choice. They said to the WRU to either choose the Celtic league or Anglo-Welsh cup. The WRU had a think about it and decided which was the BEST OPTION.

You ignore the fact that the English don't want an anglo-Welsh league. For many of their clubs it would be like turkeys voting for christmas. Do you think the WRU were not inquiring about an anglo-Welsh league?

I can see it now.
WRU: How about us Welsh and you English join forces lads.
PRL: Great idea! We'll go an discuss it at our next meeting.
WRU: So did ye discuss it?
PRL: Not yet but next time we will. It'll be priority number 1.
WRU: So any news lads?
PRL: We discussed it and the clubs are very open to the idea of it happening down the line.
WRU: So about the anglo-Welsh league talks. Any progress lads?
PRL: Some of our guys are very positive towards the idea. We'll have to see out existing contracts etc first before we discuss it again.
WRU: I see you are in new contract talks. Any progress on the A-W league talks?
PRL: ehhh, oh, yeah, yes indeed! We have made progress. Most chairmen are now warming to the idea. Its getting closer!
WRU: Any news lads?
PRL: Unfortunately due to new TV contracts etc it has to be delayed this time. But we're still discussing it and its high up on our agenda. Just a matter of timing.
WRU: Thanks lads if theres anything we can do for ye, let us know. You'll keep us in mind when the existing TV contracts are up?
PRL: We will. Hang in there.

You do seem confused. The negotiation would be between PRW and PRL, for starters.

And I don't see how it would be Turkeys voting for Christmas. Can you expand on that, please?

PhilBB wrote:

profitius wrote:

It seems all the Irish/Scots did was give the WRU a choice. They said to the WRU to either choose the Celtic league or Anglo-Welsh cup. The WRU had a think about it and decided which was the BEST OPTION.

You ignore the fact that the English don't want an anglo-Welsh league. For many of their clubs it would be like turkeys voting for christmas. Do you think the WRU were not inquiring about an anglo-Welsh league?

I can see it now.
WRU: How about us Welsh and you English join forces lads.
PRL: Great idea! We'll go an discuss it at our next meeting.
WRU: So did ye discuss it?
PRL: Not yet but next time we will. It'll be priority number 1.
WRU: So any news lads?
PRL: We discussed it and the clubs are very open to the idea of it happening down the line.
WRU: So about the anglo-Welsh league talks. Any progress lads?
PRL: Some of our guys are very positive towards the idea. We'll have to see out existing contracts etc first before we discuss it again.
WRU: I see you are in new contract talks. Any progress on the A-W league talks?
PRL: ehhh, oh, yeah, yes indeed! We have made progress. Most chairmen are now warming to the idea. Its getting closer!
WRU: Any news lads?
PRL: Unfortunately due to new TV contracts etc it has to be delayed this time. But we're still discussing it and its high up on our agenda. Just a matter of timing.
WRU: Thanks lads if theres anything we can do for ye, let us know. You'll keep us in mind when the existing TV contracts are up?
PRL: We will. Hang in there.

You do seem confused. The negotiation would be between PRW and PRL, for starters.

And I don't see how it would be Turkeys voting for Christmas. Can you expand on that, please?

You used the WRU in the post I was quoting.

It means why would English clubs allow Welsh regions in if they were going to lose money by doing so and possibly relegation too. Same with a British and Irish league. Why would they want it.

profitius wrote:Same with a British and Irish league. Why would they want it.

Perhaps to keep the 6N strong.

Without decent competition the 6N would be less appealing. That is where the BIG money is after all. I was debating on another thread about the Pro12 taking on teams from other countries, why should we do it, and not the English ? It is in Englands best interest to keep British and Irish rugby competitive. Unless of course, England decide to join the Rugby Championship.

profitius wrote:

You used the WRU in the post I was quoting.

It means why would English clubs allow Welsh regions in if they were going to lose money by doing so and possibly relegation too. Same with a British and Irish league. Why would they want it.

They wouldn't.

Why have you assumed either is on the table? There are plenty of ways to run a league without relegation.

LordDowlais wrote:

profitius wrote:Same with a British and Irish league. Why would they want it.

Perhaps to keep the 6N strong.

Without decent competition the 6N would be less appealing. That is where the BIG money is after all. I was debating on another thread about the Pro12 taking on teams from other countries, why should we do it, and not the English ? It is in Englands best interest to keep British and Irish rugby competitive. Unless of course, England decide to join the Rugby Championship.

Why would the Engllish league care? It would just allow them to pick up players like North on the cheap.

PhilBB wrote:

profitius wrote:

You used the WRU in the post I was quoting.

It means why would English clubs allow Welsh regions in if they were going to lose money by doing so and possibly relegation too. Same with a British and Irish league. Why would they want it.

They wouldn't.

Why have you assumed either is on the table? There are plenty of ways to run a league without relegation.

What would you propose?

Damn - I was enjoying that discussion on the AW Cup. Now it's moved onto running a B&I league without relegation.

Never mind.

profitius wrote:
What would you propose?

Personally?

16 Professional English teams and 4 professional Welsh teams in a straight two division league.

Both Unions pay for services on the same terms for their domestic teams.

Pot Hale wrote:Damn - I was enjoying that discussion on the AW Cup.  Now it's moved onto running a B&I league without relegation.

Never mind.

Let's get back to it when the rugby starts.

PhilBB wrote:

profitius wrote:
What would you propose?

Personally?

16 Professional English teams and 4 professional Welsh teams in a straight two division league.

Both Unions pay for services on the same terms for their domestic teams.

The problem is Phil, that nowhere in this is there any benefit for the English clubs or for English rugby, I'm not so blind that I can't see huge benefits for the Welsh in this, but I don't see any benefits or improvements to English rugby.

Any attempt to bring in Welsh clubs into the English game would cause a massive sh1tstorm, from top to bottom.

At the Union level, it would effectively end the PRO12 as a competition, with huge repercussions for club and international rugby in Ireland, Scotland and Italy, would probably cause a massive split in the WRU-(would they be willing to give money to clubs playing outside Wales?), it could even mean the end of the six nations and probably make it impossible for any NH nation to ever host a RWC due to the political fall out.

For the RFU it would mean a complete rewrite of the rules around English professional rugby and a major change to how the clubs are funded and supported by the RFU not to mention the issue of dealing with the Championship teams who miss out on joining this new league so that Welsh teams can - I don't think I'd like to be the RFU rep tasked with telling the Cornish Pirates, Jersey or (ironically) London Welsh that you are going back to semi-pro rugby National One so we can let Welsh teams in.

On that note how does promotion and relegation get sorted, if a Welsh team comes bottom of the second division where do they go  - more to the point, as there are no Welsh clubs capable of taking the step up then do you relegate an English team instead ? That's going to go down well !

Finally your bestest mates in England, PRL, what possible circumstances are there that would make bringing the Welsh in more attractive, going down to 10 league games reduces the gate income and TV revenues, which two clubs were you thinking of relegating from the Premiership ? Presumably a proper two division league would mean spreading the income more evenly/thinly, at the moment the RFU championship gets very little TV revenue - AFAIK it's sort of "thrown in" to Sky as part of their deal with the RFU for England coverage, BBC Wales/S4C might throw money in, but would that be able to fund a whole division ? I am assuming here that the Welsh would come in at the second division ?

Basically it's some Welsh fans pipe dream like Celtic and Rangers joining the Premier League, but like that situation there is absolutely no desire among English rugby fans or clubs, maybe a few old buffers get a bit misty eyed about the good old amateur  days and trips to Pontypridd or Cardiff, but the average fan doesn't give a tinkers.