The EU Referendum - Thursday 23 June (with voting poll)

by Nico the gman Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

Munchkin wrote:
Nico the gman wrote:Whether people like it or not the country voted to leave the EU and I don't think there's a cat in hells chance of a 2nd Referendum, those who did fail to vote and wanted to remain have in my opinion no argument.

I don't think a 2nd referendum will happen. I do think a 2nd referendum would vote Remain, even if the exact same voters come out.

Quite possibly.

by lostinwales Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:45 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
lostinwales wrote:More 'lies and propaganda from experts' *sigh....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36864273

I would much rather we stayed, and the best result would be some manoeuvre which would allow us to do so quickly, with dignity, and with some kind of leverage to put pressure on the EU to be more realistic about its future. But uncertainty is such a killer and the delay is going to be like a long drawn out death.

Not really. It just means things will stay much the same for longer. True it means long term plans can't be made, but it also means people and businesses will be unlikely to change their working arrangements in the short term, until our exit conditions become known. Basically the status quo will be maintained.

I think the worst that will happen is that we will continue to experience currency fluctuations, as you can't stop speculation.

I'd like to think that but am really not so sure now. Uncertainty means lack of investment - means people saving rather than spending etc - which means economic slow down and the R word.

Then there is the matter of European funding for research programs. Plenty of reports on the impact of Brexit on the ability of UK universities to claim European research funding and on participation in Euro wide projects. That is not the kind of thing that effects all walks of life but as a former university researcher it does concern me. But what do I know. Apparently we don't need experts.

by Coxy001 Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:48 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
lostinwales wrote:More 'lies and propaganda from experts' *sigh....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36864273

I would much rather we stayed, and the best result would be some manoeuvre which would allow us to do so quickly, with dignity, and with some kind of leverage to put pressure on the EU to be more realistic about its future. But uncertainty is such a killer and the delay is going to be like a long drawn out death.

Nothing in that BBC report is actually happening. It can't be. Duty and Bojo said it wouldn't.

Think it was a bit of a masterstroke for May to put BoJo in as FS and DD as Director of Brexit (or whatever he's called). She knows both are doomed to failure. Having the highest profile leave campaigner fail on so, so many levels is likely to open a big can of worms that's labelled "Leave campaigners were full of crap".

She says "Brexit means Brexit". I'm just hoping what she means by that is "we'll have a big go at Brexit, be seen to giving it a big go of demanding 'we want XYZ even though we know we haven't got a prayer of getting it"... BoJo and co then get publically hung by the rest of the Tories for lying and the PM holds a commons vote on whether to accept the shoddy deal we end up with which gets turned down. Duty cries a lot, we wake up and the country returns to normal and happy days.

I take it this is your script for a feature film. Do you have a working title for it yet? Will there be much nudity / sex, violence or portrayals of substance abuse?

I find it hilarious that anyone thinks the UK can't survive outside of the EU. We did before and we will do so again...assuming the government honours it's "Brexit means Brexit" pledge.

Jesus. Christ. Are you being serious?

Question: How big was the single market before we joined? And how big is it now? Both in terms of total consumer base and GDP?

You probably find it hilarious because you're a bloody idiot who doesn't actually understand what happens if you chop the financial services out of the single market and then watch what happens to 17% of our GDP (not to many £billions of tax revenues and the £billions associated with infrastructure) going down the drain. As one very small example.

We can't have access to the single market without accepting the pillars that are prerequists of being a European country. Like it or not that's the way it always has been and always will be.

Only thing that's funny here is your complete lack of understanding on the matter.

by lostinwales Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:48 pm

Galted wrote:Is there going to be a famine?

...there shall, in that time, be *rumors* of things going astray, errrm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things wi - with the sort of raffia work base that has an attachment. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock. Yea, it is written in the book of Cyril that...

by Coxy001 Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:51 pm

lostinwales wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
lostinwales wrote:More 'lies and propaganda from experts' *sigh....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36864273

I would much rather we stayed, and the best result would be some manoeuvre which would allow us to do so quickly, with dignity, and with some kind of leverage to put pressure on the EU to be more realistic about its future. But uncertainty is such a killer and the delay is going to be like a long drawn out death.

Not really. It just means things will stay much the same for longer. True it means long term plans can't be made, but it also means people and businesses will be unlikely to change their working arrangements in the short term, until our exit conditions become known. Basically the status quo will be maintained.

I think the worst that will happen is that we will continue to experience currency fluctuations, as you can't stop speculation.

I'd like to think that but am really not so sure now. Uncertainty means lack of investment - means people saving rather than spending etc - which means economic slow down and the R word.

Then there is the matter of European funding for research programs. Plenty of reports on the impact of Brexit on the ability of UK universities to claim European research funding and on participation in Euro wide projects. That is not the kind of thing that effects all walks of life but as a former university researcher it does concern me. But what do I know. Apparently we don't need experts.

Of course we don't, such nonsense! I mean we should just be finding it hilarious that all those short term forecasts are eerily coming true and we shouldn't be in a panic over the longer term "we are screwed" forecasts also put out there by these idiots who obviously have no idea what they're doing!!!

by **Galted** Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:23 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Galted wrote:Is there going to be a famine?

...there shall, in that time, be *rumors* of things going astray, errrm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things wi - with the sort of raffia work base that has an attachment. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock. Yea, it is written in the book of Cyril that...

What has the EU empire ever done for us?

by Derbymanc Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:28 pm

Is any phone in anywhere not just the whacko's and nutjobs ringing in?

I've said it before but now is the time for the country to pull together, and if the vote is gonna stand then instead of throwing petty insults and trying to 1-up each other we should be looking at how to get things on the best track and how fast it can be done

Everyone shouting every 5 minutes that we're doomed, isn't actually helping matters.

Also as a brexiter i'm pretty annoyed that there seems to be no plan now we're actually out. I'm pretty certain noone expected it to happen and now it has, they've all gone whooooops we need a plan. I'd be happy for another vote now as i think we're all a lot more informed than we were before.

by Coxy001 Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:31 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Is any phone in anywhere not just the whacko's and nutjobs ringing in?

I've said it before but now is the time for the country to pull together, and if the vote is gonna stand then instead of throwing petty insults and trying to 1-up each other we should be looking at how to get things on the best track and how fast it can be done

Everyone shouting every 5 minutes that we're doomed, isn't actually helping matters.

Also as a brexiter i'm pretty annoyed that there seems to be no plan now we're actually out. I'm pretty certain noone expected it to happen and now it has, they've all gone whooooops we need a plan. I'd be happy for another vote now as i think we're all a lot more informed than we were before.

To be fair every economist, financial institution and their dog put their oar in only to be told "we've had enough of experts".

by **ShahenshahG** Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:33 pm

With the greatest of respect derby...you ought to have realised that there was no plan prior to the vote.

by GSC Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:39 pm

can probably thank Osborne for that and his "punishment" budget

by **ShahenshahG** Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:43 pm

We've lost some grants and our top scientists are either being rejected or told to take a back seat because any British led efforts might jeopardise the application of the grant.

by kingraf Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:21 pm

I genuinely suspect Coxy's response to being told a ship he was in was sinking would be "F.uck you all, I told you this ship would sink"

by Coxy001 Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:25 pm

kingraf wrote:I genuinely suspect Coxy's response to being told a ship he was in was sinking would be "F.uck you all, I told you this ship would sink"

If I'd been told the ship was going to sink then I wouldn't even be on it. And if I was on it against my will then I'd use Duty as a human bouyancy aid.

by **ShahenshahG** Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:26 pm

Haha to be fair he was saying if you do this the ship will sink. In that situation it's perfectly reasonable to rub it in be cause the last thing you want to do is go to your watery grave with frustrated smugness.

by **Galted** Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:31 pm

I'm an excellent swimmer so a sinking ship would hold no fear for me. The only thing that scares me is a famine.

by kingraf Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:41 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:Haha to be fair he was saying if you do this the ship will sink. In that situation it's perfectly reasonable to rub it in be cause the last thing you want to do is go to your watery grave with frustrated smugness.

While true, I also feel like he's response to any potential solution is then, "I told you this ship would sink"
But what if we...
"It's Frak.ing over"
Maybe if we just get more buckets...
"Are you listening? It's f.ucking going Titanic"
Criticising won't help here Coxy..
"I told you. We are dead"

by Mind the windows Tino. Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:43 pm

Galted wrote:I'm an excellent swimmer so a sinking ship would hold no fear for me. The only thing that scares me is a famine.

Good way to lose some weight.

by GSC Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:47 pm

kingraf wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:Haha to be fair he was saying if you do this the ship will sink. In that situation it's perfectly reasonable to rub it in be cause the last thing you want to do is go to your watery grave with frustrated smugness.

While true, I also feel like he's response to any potential solution is then, "I told you this ship would sink"
But what if we...
"It's Frak.ing over"
Maybe if we just get more buckets...
"Are you listening? It's f.ucking going Titanic"
Criticising won't help here Coxy..
"I told you. We are dead"

by SecretFly Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:49 pm

Hop into the only lifeboat that didn't go down with the ship.

AHHHH...safe at last!

Em.................. wait a sec. There's another guy with you. Who is it? Go on, you can feel him breathing - go on look behind you - that's right. It's him!

Coxy: "You know this boat probably was seriously damaged too. There's bound to be a hole in it. It's only a matter of time. We're f**ked!"

by **Galted** Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:50 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Galted wrote:I'm an excellent swimmer so a sinking ship would hold no fear for me. The only thing that scares me is a famine.

Good way to lose some weight.

Sod off, Tino. This is a serious discussion.

by **ShahenshahG** Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:15 pm

kingraf wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:Haha to be fair he was saying if you do this the ship will sink. In that situation it's perfectly reasonable to rub it in be cause the last thing you want to do is go to your watery grave with frustrated smugness.

While true, I also feel like he's response to any potential solution is then, "I told you this ship would sink"
But what if we...
"It's Frak.ing over"
Maybe if we just get more buckets...
"Are you listening? It's f.ucking going Titanic"
Criticising won't help here Coxy..
"I told you. We are dead"

Tophat refuses to come here because he's so disgusted with brexit. It would have been fun watching his apoplexy.

by SecretFly Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:58 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:

Tophat refuses to come here because he's so disgusted with brexit. It would have been fun watching his apoplexy.

Don't be taunting him, Shah! You know how he now hates all words with 'X' in, em.

Inexplicable, but there you go.

by Derbymanc Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:56 pm

I stopped listening to either of the campaigns when the mud started to get slung and instead of informing us of what could happen it was all completely over the top and in the end voted with what affects me most.

I'd say most people knew it would be difficult to start with but it's years down the road when the benefits should be reaped unfortunately it just seems to get worse and worse as it's become really apparent that nobody has any idea at all in what to do.

Hence why i'd have no issues now with a second referendum (and yes i know i said before the result should stand)

by Duty281 Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:47 pm

You better believe it...

The EU Referendum - Thursday 23 June (with voting poll) - Page 16 Get?url=https%3A%2F%2Fles5duvin.files.wordpress.com%2F2016%2F05%2Fstronger-in-europe

The EU Referendum - Thursday 23 June (with voting poll) - Page 16 Get?url=https%3A%2F%2Fles5duvin.files.wordpress.com%2F2016%2F05%2Fstronger-in-europe

by **Galted** Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:23 pm

superflyweight wrote:29 days and still they don't send the notification.

by **Galted** Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:17 am

superflyweight wrote:30 days and still they don't send the notification.

by Nico the gman Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:18 pm

Galted wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
Galted wrote:Is there going to be a famine?

...there shall, in that time, be *rumors* of things going astray, errrm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things wi - with the sort of raffia work base that has an attachment. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock. Yea, it is written in the book of Cyril that...

What has the EU empire ever done for us?

Will try and get back to you with a positive answer but struggling at the moment.

by Corporalhumblebucket Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:48 am

Interesting programme on the BBC Iplayer about the practicalities and complexities of handling the Brexit process. Free from the angst that characterised most of the pre Referendum discussion. Well worth 30 mins listen.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07mmlvv/the-long-goodbye

by **superflyweight** Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:18 pm

31 days and still they don't send the notification.

by **superflyweight** Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:18 pm

32 days and still they don't send the notification.

by Duty281 Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:35 pm

http://www.moreunited.uk/

Cheer yourself up by having a right old laugh at this group.

by **superflyweight** Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:40 pm

I see your More United and raise you the Scottish Resistance.

http://scottishpatriot.blogspot.co.uk/

by SecretFly Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:01 pm

A fair, modern, efficient market based economy that closes the gap between rich and poor and supports strong public services.
(The usual guff that all politicians sign up for but we're hoping the meaningless 'aspirational' overview will be seen as detailed policy by prospective crowdfunders)

A modern democracy that empowers citizens, rather than politicians
(But we'll give the money to politicians anyway)

A green economy that protects the environment and works to reverse climate change
(An anti-market based economy that will make products and services to the poor more expensive)

An open and tolerant society where diversity is celebrated in all its forms
(No tolerance will be shown to alternative views of society)

A United Kingdom that welcomes immigration, international co-operation and a close relationship with the EU
('Leave' voters are idiots and shouldn't be tolerated)

Yeah, that group look like a right bunch of tolerant folks that will stick together through all the complexities of trying to pretend they're all on the same wavelength.

by Duty281 Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:23 pm

Don't you know how it works by now, SecretFly?

If you disagree with progressives it's simply because you haven't progressed to their level of intellectual enlightenment. Wink

by Volcanicash Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:00 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Is any phone in anywhere not just the whacko's and nutjobs ringing in?

I've said it before but now is the time for the country to pull together, and if the vote is gonna stand then instead of throwing petty insults and trying to 1-up each other we should be looking at how to get things on the best track and how fast it can be done

Everyone shouting every 5 minutes that we're doomed, isn't actually helping matters.

Also as a brexiter i'm pretty annoyed that there seems to be no plan now we're actually out. I'm pretty certain noone expected it to happen and now it has, they've all gone whooooops we need a plan. I'd be happy for another vote now as i think we're all a lot more informed than we were before.

There is a plan, flexit, by richard north - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GliFMIHiGog also worth checking out eu referendum.com. You can download his plan if interested... points of interest include "the liechtenstein solution"re border controls etc.

Apparently his strategy was turned down by the vote leave campaign, not to do with credibility but more to do with throwing all their eggs in one basket. Poor decision if you ask me as they could have at the very least negated all the uncertainty surrounding brexit, but whats done is done.

Seems to be slowly gaining media coverage, I'm not for or against it as I'd like to hear other plans eventually brought forward, but its definitely worth a look.

by **ShahenshahG** Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:38 pm

Volcanicash wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:Is any phone in anywhere not just the whacko's and nutjobs ringing in?

I've said it before but now is the time for the country to pull together, and if the vote is gonna stand then instead of throwing petty insults and trying to 1-up each other we should be looking at how to get things on the best track and how fast it can be done

Everyone shouting every 5 minutes that we're doomed, isn't actually helping matters.

Also as a brexiter i'm pretty annoyed that there seems to be no plan now we're actually out. I'm pretty certain noone expected it to happen and now it has, they've all gone whooooops we need a plan. I'd be happy for another vote now as i think we're all a lot more informed than we were before.

There is a plan, flexit, by richard north - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GliFMIHiGog also worth checking out eu referendum.com. You can download his plan if interested... points of interest include "the liechtenstein solution"re border controls etc.

Apparently his strategy was turned down by the vote leave campaign, not to do with credibility but more to do with throwing all their eggs in one basket. Poor decision if you ask me as they could have at the very least negated all the uncertainty surrounding brexit, but whats done is done.

Seems to be slowly gaining media coverage, I'm not for or against it as I'd like to hear other plans eventually brought forward, but its definitely worth a look.

He's brexit's answer to coxy, a completely unhinged c0ckwomble

by Volcanicash Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:42 pm

@Shahenshahg

Any thoughts on the plan?

by **ShahenshahG** Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:52 pm

I think it just looks like an easy solution to a complex problem, seeing as we will have to have fully exited the union before it comes to fruition. Plus it's unlikely that Iceland and Liechtenstein actually added anything to freedom of movement/capital for the rest of Europe so I dont think we can expect/demand it as he seems to think as it will cost Europe more than it'll gain from us. I will look through it in more detail later but I just don't think it's workable.

by Guest Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:01 pm

SUPERSTATE OR OBLIVION, according to S&P

Well, according to the 'Express' headline, but close enough.

by SecretFly Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:25 am

Munchkin wrote:SUPERSTATE OR OBLIVION, according to S&P

Well, according to the 'Express' headline, but close enough.

Reminds me of that part in The Life of Brian: "Crucifixion?"

SUPERSTATE OR OBLIVION? - what a nice choice. I'll take Oblivion, please, sirs. You'll always find a better class of people down that street, beggin' your pardon an' all, your Worshipfulnesses..

by Guest Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:02 pm

Indeed, I would refuse to get down on bared left knee to kiss the ring of a pointy hatted, thumb twiddling, Euro Elite.

All joking aside, any plan for a European Superstate would need to be something that the masses can agree on. Fear of economic oblivion would herd the masses in that direction. The thinking is out there, and has been for quite a while, even if viewed as conspiracy theory nonsense. It doesn't appear as nonsensical right now.

by **superflyweight** Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:41 pm

33 days and still they don't send the notification.

by lostinwales Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:08 pm

superflyweight wrote:33 days and still they don't send the notification.

Once again demonstrating stunning mathematical skills there

by **superflyweight** Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:38 pm

lostinwales wrote:
superflyweight wrote:33 days and still they don't send the notification.

Once again demonstrating stunning mathematical skills there

I don't pass comment on your posts. I'll ask you to extend the same courtesy and not pass comment on my [brilliant] posts.

by SecretFly Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:09 pm

superflyweight wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
superflyweight wrote:33 days and still they don't send the notification.

Once again demonstrating stunning mathematical skills there

I don't pass comment on your posts. I'll ask you to extend the same courtesy and not pass comment on my [brilliant] posts.

I must point out the usual sensationalism from the Remain camp as regards the Brexit situation. It is of course NOT 33 days but at the time of printing this post:

32 days, 14 hours, 9 minutes and 52 seconds

by **superflyweight** Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:21 pm

SecretFly wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
superflyweight wrote:33 days and still they don't send the notification.

Once again demonstrating stunning mathematical skills there

I don't pass comment on your posts. I'll ask you to extend the same courtesy and not pass comment on my [brilliant] posts.

I must point out the usual sensationalism from the Remain camp as regards the Brexit situation. It is of course NOT 33 days but at the time of printing this post:

32 days, 14 hours, 9 minutes and 52 seconds

I must point out the usual insular viewpoint emanating from the Leave camp as regards the Brexit situation. Note the use of BST when calculating the time elapsed and the failure to acknowledge that most of our EU partners are operating at least one hour ahead.

by **Galted** Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:25 pm

superflyweight wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
superflyweight wrote:33 days and still they don't send the notification.

Once again demonstrating stunning mathematical skills there

I don't pass comment on your posts. I'll ask you to extend the same courtesy and not pass comment on my [brilliant] posts.

I must point out the usual sensationalism from the Remain camp as regards the Brexit situation. It is of course NOT 33 days but at the time of printing this post:

32 days, 14 hours, 9 minutes and 52 seconds

I must point out the usual insular viewpoint emanating from the Leave camp as regards the Brexit situation. Note the use of BST when calculating the time elapsed and the failure to acknowledge that most of our EU partners are operating at least one hour ahead.

At last! I've waited for this moment, the battle of the 'flys.

by SecretFly Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:26 pm

But the sand in that timer glass is running out on that word 'Partner'.

by **superflyweight** Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:33 pm

Galted wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
superflyweight wrote:33 days and still they don't send the notification.

Once again demonstrating stunning mathematical skills there

I don't pass comment on your posts. I'll ask you to extend the same courtesy and not pass comment on my [brilliant] posts.

I must point out the usual sensationalism from the Remain camp as regards the Brexit situation. It is of course NOT 33 days but at the time of printing this post:

32 days, 14 hours, 9 minutes and 52 seconds

I must point out the usual insular viewpoint emanating from the Leave camp as regards the Brexit situation. Note the use of BST when calculating the time elapsed and the failure to acknowledge that most of our EU partners are operating at least one hour ahead.

At last! I've waited for this moment, the battle of the 'flys.

... for the title 'Lord of the Flies'.

by Guest Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:34 pm

Galted wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
superflyweight wrote:33 days and still they don't send the notification.

Once again demonstrating stunning mathematical skills there

I don't pass comment on your posts. I'll ask you to extend the same courtesy and not pass comment on my [brilliant] posts.

I must point out the usual sensationalism from the Remain camp as regards the Brexit situation. It is of course NOT 33 days but at the time of printing this post:

32 days, 14 hours, 9 minutes and 52 seconds

I must point out the usual insular viewpoint emanating from the Leave camp as regards the Brexit situation. Note the use of BST when calculating the time elapsed and the failure to acknowledge that most of our EU partners are operating at least one hour ahead.

At last! I've waited for this moment, the battle of the 'flys.

Sounds like it would involve a meeting of groins as opposed to a meeting of minds....let battle commence!

by SecretFly Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:36 pm

Wot naughty folks!

Must have all taken a peak at the latest Let's-find-an-excuse-to-show-people-in-the-nip show on C4

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