Bath 2016/17

Apologies if this has already been done - couldn't see a Bath thread. Just wondering if any other Bath fans are worried about next year:
No DoR (rumours surrounding Dean Ryan or the Assistand Head Coach of South Africa).
No Inside Centres (both Kyle Eastmond and Ollie Devoto having left). That said, Max Clark was excellent for the U20s 2 seasons ago...
Front Row not performing - props struggling, Auterac with injury, age catching up with Wilson etc.
Need some more resource in the back 3 - Watson, Rokoduguni, Banahan can't play every game. Not convinced by Homer.
What happens if Joseph gets injured, Banahan back at 13...???

Was worried about the 2nd row for a while, but good signings in Charteris and Stooke.

Seems to be a bit of a mess at the moment, with no leadership are the club looking at where the squad seems light/underperforming?

Do you think there will be a possibility Adam Hastings might start his Premiership career at 12? He could do worse than having a guy like Ford at 10 running the game giving him the chance to play a little with less pressure.

No - he's in the Academy squad.

bathmad wrote:No - he's in the Academy squad.

Doesn't stop him training and playing with the first team though.

Stooke will need to massively improve if he is to be considered a good signing. In his debut season, the one thing that really stood out was his work rate; this well and truly fell off a cliff in the 2nd and 3rd seasons where he just looked like a fat lump. I genuinely hope he finds his form again as he showed in that 1st year he has real potential, however, I strongly suspect he will be a wasted talent.

bathmad wrote:Seems to be a bit of a mess at the moment, with no leadership are the club looking at where the squad seems light/underperforming?

You could always carry on with your current remit, keep on raiding the Welsh regions for the best players.

Not sure Priestland would count as anyone's best player. Faletau however would - but his availability will be limited.

He meant to say London Irish.

Now if they were to go raiding in their favourite local again then Johnny Williams and Tom Fowlie would sort their needs at 12 and wing/13. Young and EQ as well.

Is Bowden still at Bath?

Yep. Was thinking between the two that would give them nice options. Bowden had some injury issues last season and given that they've just released Eastmond because he had a tendency to pick up injuries Bowden needs a good showing this season otherwise you'd assume he won't see a contract renewal either.

Ford/Bowden isn't exactly a defensive rock 10/12 combo. Ford makes his tackles but unless he's carrying the momentum Bowden does seem to slip off. If you were playing against them you'd be sending your big runners down that channel knowing you could suck in the defence and then generate clean ball.

Move Roko to 12!

Devoto and Eastmond weren't strong defenders at 12 either, so there's no drop off with Bowden. Overall in terms of quality yes, but not defensively

bowden was pretty strong in defence for us.

Is Roko not an option? He could do an Umaga

Big, Strong, good step, good hands, tackles like a beast. Would be some muscle beside Ford. Made for 12!

Best players in best positions for me - Roko stays on the wing where he is so good. Shame he didn't tour with senior England squad this summer, bang in form when squads were being announced!

One of the biggest issues was service from the no.9! Not sure that's been resolved by signing Khan.
Is Matawalu still on the books? Cooke seems to get too caught up in the niggle.

I guess Ford worked much better with Stringer running the show - give him a decent no.9 and he might get some of his swagger back.

In the Bath Chronicle there has been a recent article pointing out that since the May 2015 Premiership final, 18 players and two coaches have now gone. There have been about a dozen joiners but midfield and back row look extremely light.

IF, Blackadder becomes coach I could see a kiwi centre joining or perhaps Priestland playing 12 - JJ, Clark and Banahan cover 13.

Back row was one of the greatest concerns, where last season, teams slowed Bath ball and Cook/Ford et al were faced with blitz defences in their face.
Sisi is back from last seasons loan but Houston and Faosilva have not been replaced like for like in terms of playing style. An agreessive flanker like Fearns has also been missed. No idea what the next coach will do with Denton now Faletau is in and blindside is ably covered by Garvey and Sisi. The seemingly indestructible Louw is in for another monster season - I have probably tempted fate......
Front and second rows look fine though.

Ultimately it all hinges on who becomes the new coach/DoR and their playing style and recruitment approach. Interesting times - again.

HongKongCherry wrote:Stooke will need to massively improve if he is to be considered a good signing. In his debut season, the one thing that really stood out was his work rate; this well and truly fell off a cliff in the 2nd and 3rd seasons where he just looked like a fat lump. I genuinely hope he finds his form again as he showed in that 1st year he has real potential, however, I strongly suspect he will be a wasted talent.

I was impressed with Stooke when he was on loan with us at Irish.

propdavid_london wrote:One of the biggest issues was service from the no.9! Not sure that's been resolved by signing Khan.
Is Matawalu still on the books?  Cooke seems to get too caught up in the niggle.  

I guess Ford worked much better with Stringer running the show - give him a decent no.9 and he might get some of his swagger back.

Matawalu is still there, maybe Bath will use him as a winger. Ford looks much happier with an experienced scrum half that will dictate the forwards and take some of the tactical kicking burden. Stringer is a master at doing the simple stuff which makes allows the ten to shine (see Ford and the Cips last season).

Does anyone know how Fearns is getting on in France?

Fearns was in the french team of the year in the second division, as his club got promoted. Rave reviews from what i've heard

Any chance of him returning home?

propdavid_london wrote:Any chance of him returning home?

I wish!

Well, change of management and/or rumoured ownership may change his mind...Unless he has fully integrated into the French culture like the Armitages did.

Looks like the Blackadder/ Matson combo from Crusaders are inching closer to signing as the new Bath DoR and Head Coach respectively,. The delay being dependent on Crusaders current S18 campaign, which potentially could be to the first weekend in August.

I hadn't realised there was a link between Hatley and Matson who were both at LI fifteen years ago.

If / when this happens, fully expect the Bath English contingent being watered down with a few kiwis joining the smallest squad in the AP, in the same strategic way Pat Lam added to the Connaught squad and also with the now three welsh men in the squad for this season.

Take a look at the Premiership table on the front page of the Bath website - probably the last time we'll see the team in 1st place until next summer!

They have updated the AP site too:

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/matchcentre/tables/index.php#xkVU5ydH8os2v18s.97

Hows the academy doing ?

munkian wrote:Hows the academy doing ?

We won the Academy Finals last season, so pretty well ...

SirBurger wrote:

munkian wrote:Hows the academy doing ?

We won the Academy Finals last season, so pretty well ...

Not a great deal of representation on age group England teams though... Don't quote me, but I'm sure I recall the U20 final being contested without a single Bath player in the 23!

SirBurger wrote:

munkian wrote:Hows the academy doing ?

We won the Academy Finals last season, so pretty well ...

bathmad wrote:

SirBurger wrote:

munkian wrote:Hows the academy doing ?

We won the Academy Finals last season, so pretty well ...

Not a great deal of representation on age group England teams though... Don't quote me, but I'm sure I recall the U20 final being contested without a single Bath player in the 23!

Well TBC was injured, but Jonny Williams featured well.



Oh you mean current Bath players.

Bath have sold out of season tickets for the coming season with over eight thousand - a club record within the new 14.5 k capacity.

At least the locals can't be accused of being fairweather fans given last years performance and it looks highly competitive again this season with a top four slot being a massive task with one of the smallest squads in the league. The first tranche of league games will give a significant pointer for how the team will fare.
Fingers crossed

bathmad wrote:

SirBurger wrote:

munkian wrote:Hows the academy doing ?

We won the Academy Finals last season, so pretty well ...

Not a great deal of representation on age group England teams though... Don't quote me, but I'm sure I recall the U20 final being contested without a single Bath player in the 23!

think you missed the joke bathmad

Blackadder confirmed.

LondonTiger wrote:Blackadder confirmed.

Old news - what will be interesting is which centres and another open-side are they bringing with them.

The player ins and outs from last season leave about 5-6 places or we will have an unbelievably small squad. Which is saying something given it is already one of the smallest AP squads.

They need to wrap up.their S18 review and get over here to pronto - the first warmup game is coming up very shortly.

Will any academy players be brought up to replace some of those leaving?

What's Bath's 1st choice 23 looking like currently then?

Is openside that big a concern with Louw and Mercer?

Centres obviously more of an issue, you must have fingers crossed he's tapped up half the Crusaders back line.

Certainly Clark and young Will Homer now have senior contracts and young Levi, a brute of a flanker together will fly half Hastings must be close.

The front five will range from strong to fearsome but the back row although Sisi is back still looks light and if either Louw or Mercer are unavailable then it is fingers crossed at open-side - Mercer is seen by many as not quite cutting it.
Also like many, I would like Fearns to come back, who was named in the French club team of the year last season. Now that all the protagonists from the Burgess debacle have gone, it should be achievable as he was very popular at the club.

Four scrum halves together with two established fly halves in Ford & Priestland together with Bowden and Hastings could fill in. The centres is really basically Bowden, JJ and young Clark, although Banahan has been pretty effective with the crash ball. Wings and fullback appear ok although another returnee in Abendanon wouldn't hurt.

It feels like another shaky season is on the cards with a new management structure and style and there is clearly budget available for new players which will also take time to bed in. A top six would be a good achievement.

RDW_Scotland wrote:What's Bath's 1st choice 23 looking like currently then?

ATM for me it would be
1) Catt
2) Batty
3) Wilson/thomas
4) Attwood
5) Charteris
6) Garvey
7) Louw
8) Faletau
9) Fotuali'i
10) ford
11) Banners
12) Bowden
13) JJ
14) Roko
15) Watson

16) wlaker
17) Auterac
18) Thomas/wilson
19) Ewels
20) Denton
21) Matawalu
22) preistland
23) Homer


But they are screwed if they are injured @ Prop, 12, 13 and Wing/15

Now that the management structure has finally been announced - let the transfer rumours commence !!

First up, Mermoz in the centres and Le Roux at full back have been suggested. Also young Evans the U20 winner at Leicester is being considered, although Bath aren't the only club watching the young flanker's progress.

Surely a number of kiwi Polynesians can't be far behind in the rumour stakes.

The current senior Bath squad numbers 21 forwards and just twelve backs, so there must be room for at least half a dozen and maybe more with this seasons cap increase and extra marquee player which is Louw plus maybe Faletau.

Any other rumours ?

I might be wrong but I think Evans has just signed a two year senior contact. You certainly won't be getting hold of him this summer and Unless you employ his dad next summer either. We've been trying and failing to produce a top openside for years now, stop trying to steal him now we've got him.

Hasn't Mermoz already turned down another French top flight team to stay at Toloun? He's certainly be an ideal signing for you. Havili(sp?) the utility back (13/14/15) from the Crusaders would be a handy option given his pace and step (would be in line with Joseph and Watson). Volavola is already linked and he's a 10/15 with pace and an eye for a gap. Converting him to a 12 could work.

Yeh Evans is in our senior team now, TBH he would have no benefit moving to Bath either.

Le roux is prob trying to get a deal with SARU and Mermoz who knows.

Evans has more chance of forcing his way into the Tigers starting seven shirt than he does at Bath. If he wanted to be the first choice at Bath he has to see off Louw who is a high quality international who is specialised in his position. At Tigers he's up against the uncapped duo of O'Connor and McCaffery who are just as comfortable at 6 and 8.

The rumour mill is cranking up again with rumours on three players - all backs and currently playing in the Japanese league - two ex AB's an Oz international.

I would think the two AB's were more likely given the new coaching set up, who arrive shortly and thus making player announcements both probable and desirable.
Bath only have 12 senior backs in a tiny squad of 33 senior players and any injuries and test call ups leave a back line with academy players getting their chance, which is great but not sustainable in the AP.

Oh, the players concerned; Robbie Fruean, Richard Kahui and Berrick Barnes - not bad replacements for Eastmond, Devoto, Agulla & Ben Williams

Kahui was in ridiculous form before he disappeared to Japan aa couple of seasons back. He'd be a good signing if his knee injuries are behind him. Fruean could be fantastic but his form tends to be up and down and he has terrible look with injuries. Barnes is lightweight but an intelligent player, not sure where he'd fit in when you already have two flyhalfs plus young Hastings, surely he won't be happy with acting as international cover.

I am led to believe the two Kiwis, playing in Japan have put their injury issues behind them and offer talents where Bath are light, at 12 and back three.
Fruean would certainly be a change of emphasis for George Ford with a ball carrier rather than another play maker at 12.
I don't think there is much Kahui can't do in the back three.
Barnes would be seen as a 10/12 option, much like Dan Bowden - who currently is the only recognised 12 in the squad - although Banahan made a pretty good impact at the position when asked, which was all too frequently last season.

Kahui is a pretty decent centre as well. Those years in Japan could well have reinvigorated the pair of them. Fruean offers power and pace at either 12 or 13 and Kahui is a class act pretty much anywhere from 11 up, though I don't know if he still has all his pace. Could be great acquisitions for Bath.

Barnes at 12 is going to attract a lot of through traffic. Bowden can tackle when he feels like it, from what I remember of Barnes he was largely a speed bump at 10 trying to slow the player down so his openside could get there. Experienced head that knows how to control a game though.