The Future for the PRO 12 - Part 2 - USA Expansion

We've had the discussion on how does the PRO12 move forward for much of last season.

Towards the end of the season, PR012 CEO, Martin Anayi gave several media interviews on his own, and with PRO 12 chairman, Gerald Davies, on where the PRO12 needs to go to cope with changes in rugby within Six Nations and globally.

Anayi and Davies identified and acknowledged a number of the issues raised by PRO clubs CEOs and fans including increase in TV monies, match-day attendances, marketing, standard of refereeing, season structure and test window matches,  scheduling of season matches/kick-off times including Sunday games, European competitions, player welfare/concussion, growing "event" weekends, etc.

Anayi and Davies met with PRO12 CEOs over the last season to discuss issues and get feedback on a number of proposals that would mark out the future for the PRO 12 and its member unions.  

From various media interviews and reports - some unsubstantiated - a number of key decisions are being considered by PRO 12 and its 12 member clubs along with their representative organisations and unions.  In summary, these would appear to include:

• Changes to season scheduling to make it more accessible, consistent, and appealing to fans across the four unions territories starting from next season 2016/17.
  
• Further investment in a referee development programme to deal with issues/perceptions of bias and neutrality for league fixtures
  
• Stronger and more localised marketing and promotion of league games by the PRO12 and by the individual clubs to attract fans to games and make it more appealing to broadcasters.
  
• More promotion and stronger branding/marketing of games by TV partners
  
• Changing the structure of the league from home & away 22 games to a conference/pool structure that can accommodate more teams in the future from other unions/territories e.g. North America and South Africa, with East Coast of America being the first target to develop a franchise with operational and coaching expertise being provided by the four unions.
  
• Development of Big Event Weekends to drive crowd numbers, create a more appealing product for TV companies/sponsors, and generate more revenues for the PRO12
  
• Reduce number of games played during season and re-strucure so that no "league" games are played during the test windows in November and Feb/March
  
• Consequently, this would allow a greater proportion of league games to have test players involved and increase quality of product.
  
• During test windows, the PRO CEOs want rugby to continue, and a revised development competition is being proposed for these periods for development of academy and young players within squads not involved in test rugby.  This may involve changes to the British & Irish Cup and the Anglo-Wlesh Cup.  One report indicates that Premier Rugby may be interested in discussing the creation of a British & Irish development cup to replace the current AW Cup that would attract increased sponsorship and TV money than currently.
  

It's clear that changes need to occur for the PRO12.   The current structure and set-up is neither sufficient nor sustainable.   The most recent comments on this from the CEO of the IRFU in publishing their annual report indicate this clearly, and what changes need to occur.  He also commented on the plans to develop a franchise in the US.

The potential for the development of a B&I league has been regularly discussed on 606v2, but for the purposes of this topic, it's not being included as the Premiership has commitments for the next 6-7 years on its TV deals that would not countenance such a move.  

Feel free to comment/dispute/argue on what is being proposed - any errors are entirely mine.

Quote from Phillip Browne, CEO of the Irish Rugby Football Union, in their Annual Report 2015/16 published 15 July 2016:

"There is no question that the Provinces should continue to aspire to European success but expectations may need to be tempered in the new financial reality that has emerged, driven by the huge television rights fees generated in the Aviva Premiership and the Top 14 tournaments, along with the increasing levels of private investment in professional clubs in those leagues. The attendant risks to the Irish professional game are potentially profound and one of the key mitigation strategies is to invest in our pathway to develop better quality players more quickly through a more effective pathway - a key element of the new High Performance strategy. There is no doubt that we have the athletic potential in Ireland, the key is to be more effective in how we “mine” and develop that potential.

An extension of this new European order is the difficulty that faces the PRO12 as a competition operating in Ireland, Scotland, and Wales – three rugby markets which are a fraction the size of those in England and France. The Italian market has not really delivered, not helped by the poor performances of the Italian teams and what appears to be a lack of investment in those teams. Change is required if the PRO12 is to remain a meaningful tournament. The revenues generated by the tournament need to double or treble if the participating clubs/provinces are to remain competitive with the clubs in the English and French leagues. Such an increase in values will require some radical change to the tournament and how it is structured. The expansion of the tournament into new territories is probably a prerequisite and the first steps are being taken now in relation to a new strategic plan for the tournament. Part of this has been to appoint a dedicated Managing Director for the PRO12 and to take the organisation out from under the “administrative wing” of the Six Nations. Martin Anayi, an experienced sports marketing professional has been appointed to this position and in consultation with the participating clubs/provinces will be bringing forward plans to reinvigorate and expand the PRO12.

Alongside the theme of change sits finance. Whilst there is change all around us, there is little scope for incremental uplift in the revenues generated by the Provinces and the IRFU to compare with that in the English and French markets.Much of the IRFU revenue generated around the international game is contracted out for the next number of years, the IRFU sponsorship portfolio has little scope for growth, attendances at the Aviva Stadium are - by and large- at capacity. A similar situation pertains in most of the Provinces, albeit there is still some scope for uplift in attendances. New sources of income continue to be explored along with innovative ways of repackaging our commercial portfolio to generate increased revenues. However, it is becoming increasingly clear that the professional game in Ireland can no longer rely on the IRFU being the “lender of last resort” as the IRFU no longer has the capacity to absorb the increasing cost of the professional game as the Provinces struggle to respond to the inflating player market in England and France. This means that the IRFU and the Provinces will have to be more clever and effective in the use of available resources and financial prudence will require that Irish rugby must live within its means."

http://www.irishrugby.ie/downloads/IRFU_AnnualReport_1516.pdf

"The East coast of the US, why not?... the one thing we can bring to bear, as four unions, is if you operate a franchise model we can provide the coaches, we can provide the administrative expertise. We can do what is needed to get a franchise up and running pretty quickly. So that's what we are looking at."

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro-12-looking-at-north-america-franchise-as-part-of-expansion-1.2723886

Thanks for the topic Pot Hale, let's hope it doesn't denigrate into a Welsh/Irish hate campaign on here and if there is criticism let's hope it's constructive.

Absolutely agree with you Wayne.

Interesting articles there, PH. They know they have to expand.

The league is in a healthy state in general and generally on an upward curve. Hopefully the new fixture list will help it grow further.

Something that would really boost the league is an Italian side doing well. Treviso have strengthened the most over the summer so they should be better. The Italian fans and TV viewers have been watching endless defeats for years now.

I dont think America will happen, with PRORugby there now it'll be too much of a battle setting up there, maybe a cup competition against PRORugby teams during international windows would be a more viable option there.

Europe is where the answers lie, if they can set up strong teams in Germany, Spain, Russia etc then they can not only increase the revenues for the league but also for the European competitions which has a double lift for them then.

marty2086 wrote:I dont think America will happen, with PRORugby there now it'll be too much of a battle setting up there, maybe a cup competition against PRORugby teams during international windows would be a more viable option there.

Europe is where the answers lie, if they can set up strong teams in Germany, Spain, Russia etc then they can not only increase the revenues for the league but also for the European competitions which has a double lift for them then.

Yes, Browne did cite Spain, etc as other possibilities for developing franchise teams.

For me, the South African one could be very interesting. SA could take a negative arising from the transformation exodus and turn it into something positive for SA rugby by having a foot in both NH and SH comps for its teams.

SA would still have the same problem, its not a lack of money but a weak Rand that is driving players to Europe.

Super Rugby would also have a problem with it as it would dilute the tv deal there and if Im not mistaken SA is a huge part of the revenue for Super Rugby

It seems like all the options are similar to Italy, in that it will take a long time to bear fruit.

I think the USA and South Africa are the best bets.

marty2086 wrote:SA would still have the same problem, it's not a lack of money but a weak Rand that is driving players to Europe.

Super Rugby would also have a problem with it as it would dilute the tv deal there and if Im not mistaken SA is a huge part of the revenue for Super Rugby

I agree about the weak Rand, but a franchise set up up in NH, operating to NH finances and salaries, would be more competitive, no?

Why would it dilute the TV deal for Super Rugby? It would be an additional team(s) set up for NH rugby and comps. And yes, South Africa, is the main driver of the TV revenue for Super Rugby - that it puts it into a stronger negotiating position.

I think the sooner that NH and SH labels are dispensed with the better, particularly in a global marketplace and a game that is attempting to be global. South Africa, in a sense, sits between the north and south and should take advantage of this. Who says that everyone has to stick by the old rules of how the market operates?

Some new, game-changing moves need to be made.

So a SA team would be based in the NH?

If you are paying in Rand its still not worth much

The tv deal is diluted if the SA networks dont need the Super Rugby deal as much, its why Sky didn't go in for the Pro12 they had the AP along with the HC and Challenge Cup

I'm not a fan of a league with teams based half way around the world from each other. I'd prefer to concentrate on growing it in Europe.

Its rather interesting that Play Rugby USA have Ronan O'Gara & Jonathan Sexton coaching for a day at one of the summer camps in New York next week. Looks to have official IRFU involvement (they are using the logo anyway).

Start growing a fan base in the USA quickly (the kids are 12-18 year olds).

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/opportunity-lifetime-coached-2-irish-rugby-legends-new-josh-hussey

marty2086 wrote:So a SA team would be based in the NH?

If you are paying in Rand its still not worth much

The tv deal is diluted if the SA networks dont need the Super Rugby deal as much, its why Sky didn't go in for the Pro12 they had the AP along with the HC and Challenge Cup

"operating to NH finances and salaries" - paid in euros. They could be based in SA or NH.

I'm saying that Super Rugby would continue as normal - Supersport and Sky would still provide coverage - they wouldn't lose out - they'd gain ideally.  

An additional team or two would be created for the NH comps, or divert one of the existing good ones, if they want.   Call them Durban Exiles, or Dublin Stormers, or Cape Town Exiteers, whatever.

Pot Hale wrote:An additional team or two would be created for the NH comps, or divert one of the existing good ones, if they want.   Call them Durban Exiles, or Dublin Stormers, or Cape Town Exiteers, whatever.

... or Saracens

marty2086 wrote:So a SA team would be based in the NH?

If you are paying in Rand its still not worth much

The tv deal is diluted if the SA networks dont need the Super Rugby deal as much, its why Sky didn't go in for the Pro12 they had the AP along with the HC and Challenge Cup

I presume you mean BT Sport, not Sky. The reason seemingly that BT didn't go in was because at that stage they were negotiating the Champs Cup and the Welsh Regions were at war with the WRU and no one was sure there was going to be a Pro12. It suited BT to undermine the Pro12 (they declined to tender for it) so that the IRFU & SRU would have to stay with the Champs Cup. SRU got a huge bribe from them (and BT Sport ended up sponsoring all the Welsh teams).

With BT sport channels now free with Eir broadband, I'd expect BT sport to bid the next time round. Hope to god they dont get is as I just hate their coverage.

Sin I meant Sky going in before BT came along

Hale what would be the point in paying in Euros if they are based in SA and whats the point of a SA team in the NH if SA fans are half a world away?

A SA franchise in the NH isnt worth much to a SA network because they have a product for the market already and the kick off times dont work with the time difference

An SA team in the comp is stupid but the current time in SA is the same as Italy.......

So it's not stupid because of ko times

marty2086 wrote:Sin I meant Sky going in before BT came along

Hale what would be the point in paying in Euros if they are based in SA and whats the point of a SA team in the NH if SA fans are half a world away?

A SA franchise in the NH isnt worth much to a SA network because they have a product for the market already and the kick off times dont work with the time difference

Marty - I'm sure it's possible to be paid in euros/sterling and players can convert to whatever currency they like. Happens all the time in business.

If they're based in SA, the time zone is not much different to Europe, that's one of the key points.

Do you work in sports broadcasting?

St John The Enforcer wrote:An SA team in the comp is stupid but the current time in SA is the same as Italy.......

So it's not stupid because of ko times

"An SA team in the comp is stupid.... Because?

Difficult to know what to make of this. Expanding Super Rugby sounded good in theory but, as we get to the end of this first season, we still don't really know yet if it's going to work in practice. consequently, we probably won't know about any of these proposals for PRO12 until something concrete starts and runs for a few seasons.

I'm all in favour of trying something, though. If doesn't matter if everything doesn't come off.

Rugby Fan wrote:Difficult to know what to make of this. Expanding Super Rugby sounded good in theory but, as we get to the end of this first season, we still don't really know yet if it's going to work in practice. consequently, we probably won't know about any of these proposals for PRO12 until something concrete starts and runs for a few seasons.

I'm all in favour of trying something, though. If doesn't matter if everything doesn't come off.

Trying something instead of sitting on hands wailing would be my outlook too.

It's typical of the Blazers running the PrO'12 that they will take stupid decisions in order to save their own neck.

The answer to the problem is provided by Eir and BT Sport: a B&I League. This is blindingly obvious and has been for 20 years.

Of course, the barrier to this is that the Blazers won't be able to control said league so won't push for it.

I like the fact that the people in charge of the Pro12 are finally taking on board that the league has issues and it needs improvement. But I do not think they need to re-invent the wheel here.

First things first. We need to sort out the position we find ourselves in with regards to referees. I am glad they are looking at this. I am glad they are looking at referee development, I hope we get to a time where the referees are employed by the Pro12 and not the unions. The situation we find ourselves with at present with the refs is a noose around the neck of the Pro12.

Secondly, we should be scrapping fixtures on international weekends, we do not want to be watching weaker sides playing in the league, we need our best players on show at every opportunity.

What I will take issues with though, is the Pro12 being used as a tool to develop rugby in other countries, the French or English are not looking at adding other countries to their leagues, why are we ? We just need to iron out the creases in our league, we do not need to be adding extra air miles to play inferior teams week in week out. Our teams already pay a fortune to travel to Italy, never mind going over to the USA or Spain.

Oh dear.  Yet another Pro12 angle that'll create yet another million miles of print that comes to no conclusion that will ever be liked by everyone.

It's now clear and self-evident from the world of politics, sport and war that we'll soon have to Ban The Internet to save both our sanity and the world.

Well...okay then, 'save all your sanity.'  I'm obviously beyond hope of salvation.

LordDowlais wrote:I like the fact that the people in charge of the Pro12 are finally taking on board that the league has issues and it needs improvement. But I do not think they need to re-invent the wheel here.

First things first. We need to sort out the position we find ourselves in with regards to referees. I am glad they are looking at this. I am glad they are looking at referee development, I hope we get to a time where the referees are employed by the Pro12 and not the unions. The situation we find ourselves with at present with the refs is a noose around the neck of the Pro12.

Secondly, we should be scrapping fixtures on international weekends, we do not want to be watching weaker sides playing in the league, we need our best players on show at every opportunity.

What I will take issues with though, is the Pro12 being used as a tool to develop rugby in other countries, the French or English are not looking at adding other countries to their leagues, why are we ? We just need to iron out the creases in our league, we do not need to be adding extra air miles to play inferior teams week in week out. Our teams already pay a fortune to travel to Italy, never mind going over to the USA or Spain.

Lots of sense in this, but I don't see how the referees situation can be ironed out in the way you think. The Irish referees work full time on ref development in their own Branch, for example.

PhilBB wrote:It's typical of the Blazers running the PrO'12 that they will take stupid decisions in order to save their own neck.

The answer to the problem is provided by Eir and BT Sport: a B&I League. This is blindingly obvious and has been for 20 years.

Of course, the barrier to this is that the Blazers won't be able to control said league so won't push for it.

In fairness, EirSport and BT Sport were not around 5 years ago.

I suppose you are happy to play in 2nd Division B&I League - just like you are happy for the Welsh teams to compete in the worthless 2nd tier of European Rugby.

LordDowlais wrote: Our teams already pay a fortune to travel to Italy, never mind going over to the USA or Spain.

The Italians contributed 3 million to cover the extra costs initially in the absence of an Italian TV deal & sponsorship. The Welsh teams were not out of pocket for that.

Sin é wrote:

PhilBB wrote:It's typical of the Blazers running the PrO'12 that they will take stupid decisions in order to save their own neck.

The answer to the problem is provided by Eir and BT Sport: a B&I League. This is blindingly obvious and has been for 20 years.

Of course, the barrier to this is that the Blazers won't be able to control said league so won't push for it.

In fairness, EirSport and BT Sport were not around 5 years ago.

I suppose you are happy to play in 2nd Division B&I League - just like you are happy for the Welsh teams to compete in the worthless 2nd tier of European Rugby.

Better to Rule in Hell than to Serve in Heaven.

I think that's the general theory of the 'oppressed'.

Sin é wrote:

LordDowlais wrote: Our teams already pay a fortune to travel to Italy, never mind going over to the USA or Spain.

The Italians contributed 3 million to cover the extra costs initially in the absence of an Italian TV deal & sponsorship. The Welsh teams were not out of pocket for that.

Is there any Italian TV deal ?

The Italians do not contribute anymore. Also, why are you singling out just the Welsh teams ? All the teams have to pay for travel to Italy, not just the Welsh. I take it you would be in favour of teams having to travel to the USA or all over Europe left right and center in the league ?

Sin é wrote:
In fairness, EirSport and BT Sport were not around 5 years ago.

I suppose you are happy to play in 2nd Division B&I League - just like you are happy for the Welsh teams to compete in the worthless 2nd tier of European Rugby.

It's hardly 'worthless' when the participants get the same fee regardless of which tier they play in.

But, yes, I'd take 2nd division B&I over the PrO'12. Of course, I understand that the necessary ownership entry requirement would likely see a real change around in all rugby, so I think that all entrants should relish the challenge.

Sin é wrote:

LordDowlais wrote: Our teams already pay a fortune to travel to Italy, never mind going over to the USA or Spain.

The Italians contributed 3 million to cover the extra costs initially in the absence of an Italian TV deal & sponsorship. The Welsh teams were not out of pocket for that.

You're wrong by a factor of approximately two million.

LordDowlais wrote:

Sin é wrote:

LordDowlais wrote: Our teams already pay a fortune to travel to Italy, never mind going over to the USA or Spain.

The Italians contributed 3 million to cover the extra costs initially in the absence of an Italian TV deal & sponsorship. The Welsh teams were not out of pocket for that.

Is there any Italian TV deal ?

The Italians do not contribute anymore. Also, why are you singling out just the Welsh teams ? All the teams have to pay for travel to Italy, not just the Welsh. I take it you would be in favour of teams having to travel to the USA or all over Europe left right and center in the league ?

I think they do. The fee was reduced though. I'm singling out Welsh teams because you (Welsh) whinged about the cost of travelling. Not the Scots or Irish.

It doesn't bother me. As an island, we're used to having to get on a plane and get places. Look at the amount of travelling that is involved in most competitions (like Super Rugby, new Rugby Pro league in US). England rugby is the exception.

Sin é wrote: England rugby is the exception.

And is the reason why us not driving two hours to a pro team, but jumping on a plane for hours, is utterly ridiculous.

PhilBB wrote:

Sin é wrote:
In fairness, EirSport and BT Sport were not around 5 years ago.

I suppose you are happy to play in 2nd Division B&I League - just like you are happy for the Welsh teams to compete in the worthless 2nd tier of European Rugby.

It's hardly 'worthless' when the participants get the same fee regardless of which tier they play in.

But, yes, I'd take 2nd division B&I over the PrO'12. Of course, I understand that the necessary ownership entry requirement would likely see a real change around in all rugby, so I think that all entrants should relish the challenge.

Its worthless from a financial point of view because it contributes nothing in the way of sponsorship to the pot. Basically, you're hanging onto everyone else coat tails. You just want the easy money and are not prepared to put the hard graft into developing the attendance.

PhilBB wrote:

Sin é wrote: England rugby is the exception.

And is the reason why us not driving two hours to a pro team, but jumping on a plane for hours, is utterly ridiculous.

Well, pity the English don't want you.

Sin é wrote:
Its worthless from a financial point of view because it contributes nothing in the way of sponsorship to the pot. Basically, you're hanging onto everyone else coat tails. You just want the easy money and are not prepared to put the hard graft into developing the attendance.

Both tournaments carry the same sponsors. There's no breakdown.

Let's remember that PRW attendances per population are better than those from IRFU branches, just to put in to context that daft final sentence troll.

Sin é wrote:
Well, pity the English don't want you.

Or pity that the WRU won't push for it publicly.

Why is this starting to turn into a bitchfest ?

I think our teams travelling more than they have to is a stupid idea. We cannot compete financially now, never mind having to shell out extra for travelling to the USA and the far flung reaches of Europe left right and center.

LordDowlais wrote:Why is this starting to turn into a bitchfest ?

I think our teams travelling more than they have to is a stupid idea. We cannot compete financially now, never mind having to shell out extra for travelling to the USA and the far flung reaches of Europe left right and center.

Why have you assumed that the travelling costs won't be more than met by any increased income?

Increased income will also pay air fares of travelling supporters. It's all good.
Don't worry, be happy.

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Why is this starting to turn into a bitchfest ?

I think our teams travelling more than they have to is a stupid idea. We cannot compete financially now, never mind having to shell out extra for travelling to the USA and the far flung reaches of Europe left right and center.

Why have you assumed that the travelling costs won't be more than met by any increased income?

So you reckon us playing games in the USA will be beneficial to our regions ? I don't. We cannot afford to travel to Italy, never mind going further. For me Italian rugby is a failure. Lets see how they go over the next few years before we start "helping" other nations. Charity begins at home.

Could we go the way of premier league teams in having a preseason tour of the US? I'm sure there would be an interest in watching the pro12 teams even without their internationals playing the American franchises or just having mini tournaments with each other.

Wouldn't have to be any extra games as it would just replace the preseason friendlies. It would be the off season for most American sports apart from Baseball.

The American football game they have in the Aviva sells out every year. Could get something like that going with provinces in America.

SecretFly wrote:Increased income will also pay air fares of travelling supporters.  It's all good.  
Don't worry, be happy.

And where is this increased income coming from ?

LordDowlais wrote:
So you reckon us playing games in the USA will be beneficial to our regions ? I don't. We cannot afford to travel to Italy, never mind going further. For me Italian rugby is a failure. Lets see how they go over the next few years before we start "helping" other nations. Charity begins at home.

You've got this all messed up.

If it is not financially beneficial to play in the USA then it won't happen.

The Italians have paid their own way and the home games make the travel to Italy affordable. It is simply wrong to claim 'we cannot afford to travel to Italy'.

I agree that the idea is daft, but we can't comment on its financial veracity at this point.

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Increased income will also pay air fares of travelling supporters.  It's all good.  
Don't worry, be happy.

And where is this increased income coming from ?

If you'd read the article then you'd have the answer already.

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Increased income will also pay air fares of travelling supporters.  It's all good.  
Don't worry, be happy.

And where is this increased income coming from ?

Sky and BT have said they're willing to consider supplementing fan airfares if they can reach a deal on a new Pro12 globtrotting League. They say 'Don't worry'. So I choose not to worry.

SecretFly wrote:Sky and BT have said they're willing to consider supplementing fan airfares

Does that cover the teams cost as well ? Hotels, flights ect ?

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Sky and BT have said they're willing to consider supplementing fan airfares

Does that cover the teams cost as well ? Hotels, flights ect ?

You'll have to ask people like Sin and Phil, Lord. I only have the rough outline. They always have the official pre-contracts there with them as they speak.