Le Big Match - Nadal v Federer

First topic message reminder :

After a breathtaking day of semi finals, we have our two men to compete in the final.

Who wins?

Once again, when it comes to facing Nadal, Federer is proving to be the architect of his own downfall. Dominates much of the first set before the inevitable collapse. Works incredibly hard to even things up in the second before the inevitable collapse.

Nadal had this title won as soon as Federer made the final.

No lydian, Rafa is a great competitor but it has a lot to do with the technical disadvantage of the one hander against Rafa's thermonuclear western grip spin off the forehand.

To be honest socal, when Rafa plays at 100% form he's murder on any court.

This is basically why the one hander is dying.

Damn the french weather.

rain time

got to think the rain is huge benefit to Fed

Worst time possible for Rafa after the SP, apart from being break point down

Reminds me of Wimbledon 2008...

Yep Tom, Nadal rushed that forehand at SP due to the rain you feel...

socal1976 wrote:Tom it isn't that Fed isn't good enough, Rafa is murder on a single hander on clay court. The one hander doesn't like the high heavy ball and rafa hits about the heaviest ball we have ever seen. Its a technical disadvantage Roger had and he needed that first set a lot worse than Rafa.

I know you're talking to Tom, but that's why Novak would have been a better match up in today's final. Rafa is a poor match up for Roger on ANY surface, much less clay. That's why Rafa pushed Roger hard in Wimbledon '07 and eventually beat him in Wimbledon 2008.

Nadal walking around with no top on.

don't usually comment on these things, but Fed seems to have a bigger chest than Nadal, Nadal bigger shoulder and arms - funny sport is tennis...just how different body shapes can be, yet still be at the top of the game.

You look at sprinting (bar Bolt), cycling, boxing, basketball etc and you find theres a body shape more suitable to a sport than others. Tennis really is great imo.

kemet wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Tom it isn't that Fed isn't good enough, Rafa is murder on a single hander on clay court. The one hander doesn't like the high heavy ball and rafa hits about the heaviest ball we have ever seen. Its a technical disadvantage Roger had and he needed that first set a lot worse than Rafa.

I know you're talking to Tom, but that's why Novak would have been a better match up in today's final. Rafa is a poor match up for Roger on ANY surface, much less clay. That's why Rafa pushed Roger hard in Wimbledon '07 and eventually beat him in Wimbledon 2008.

we will never know because of the two sets of rust Fabio Fognini handed Novak in the semi. He better keep his butt off the court for a couple of weeks.

Tom_____ wrote:got to think the rain is huge benefit to Fed

Worst time possible for Rafa after the SP, apart from being break point down

Won't the rain slow down the court thus doing Rafa a favour Tom ?

hopefully that rain break will change things!

kemet wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Tom it isn't that Fed isn't good enough, Rafa is murder on a single hander on clay court. The one hander doesn't like the high heavy ball and rafa hits about the heaviest ball we have ever seen. Its a technical disadvantage Roger had and he needed that first set a lot worse than Rafa.

I know you're talking to Tom, but that's why Novak would have been a better match up in today's final. Rafa is a poor match up for Roger on ANY surface, much less clay. That's why Rafa pushed Roger hard in Wimbledon '07 and eventually beat him in Wimbledon 2008.

you have to say thats also because Nadal found a way to play effectively against Federer on all surfaces. Was it the first grass set they played a 6-0 to Fed?, then the next set very competitive - 2 years later NAdal takes the tile and then next time back basically walks the latter rounds. Last year he takes the US open playing a man touted to be the top HC player - its an acceleration of adaption.

fed on the other hand, with all his variety and skill has never been able to find a way around one particular deficiency in his game vs. NAdal. It seems odd to me that with all his other shots, he's never able to put rafa in a position where he consistently struggles to get to Fed's backhand.

For me the clear reason for this is Nadals game is much more than the heavy topspin forehand and that maybe Federer enjoyed a little too long at the top of the game without being tested - you do sometimes feel that Federer had ultimate variety, but is less able to adjust his game when necessary


2nd break back, have to say the rain came at the perfect time as per 2008

What a funny old match this is. Top quality but full of twists.

kemet wrote:What does Roger have to do to win a point.

Abous 9 genius shots in a row to win a single point. Then nullified in the next point by a shank.

yummymummy wrote:

Tom_____ wrote:got to think the rain is huge benefit to Fed

Worst time possible for Rafa after the SP, apart from being break point down

Won't the rain slow down the court thus doing Rafa a favour Tom ?

No, Rafa does not like a slow clay court as it stop the balls bouncing as high. Madrid is the exception due to altitude, which stops Nadal spin taking effect

No the rain makes the bounce lower suiting Fed more.

slower, and lower bouncing is why Fed always did much better at Hamburg

Tom_____ wrote:

yummymummy wrote:

Tom_____ wrote:got to think the rain is huge benefit to Fed

Worst time possible for Rafa after the SP, apart from being break point down

Won't the rain slow down the court thus doing Rafa a favour Tom ?

No, Rafa does not like a slow clay court as it stop the balls bouncing as high. Madrid is the exception due to altitude, which stops Nadal spin taking effect

Too add to that - Notice that on Hamburg clay (one of the slowest clay courts) Federer has had better results against Nadal

You would have to back Fed in the tie breaker here

Aye Tom!

Tiebreak lottery time!

Maybe not

3-0 in the tB game over.

If you look back at historic videos of Clay courters you realise that Nadal is actually one of the more aggressive clay court players who likes a faster/high bouncing clay court.

This year the speed has come to the FO on the back of the balls which do not seem to be fluffing up - reducing the spin available. It will be interesting to see, just where Nadals timing and spin ability is come wimbledon.

Federer is going to need something special to take this tiebreak.

socal1976 wrote:3-0 in the tB game over.

you're being quite negative today social?

Federer really does show alot more emotion these days..

Don't know what happened with that overhead.

What a shot by Nadal there for 6-2!!

Well done Nadal

you have to say thats also because Nadal found a way to play effectively against Federer on all surfaces.

Oh yes very clever. They all hit relentlessly Fed's BH, trying to put as much spin but not many manage to actually beat him.

He is always beaten the same way and cannot find out an alternative tactic. I wonder how he won so many slams with such a lack of tennis strategy. Nadal has more know-how

Superb play from Nadal.

0-2 against nadal,,quite a task for fed

Rafa is making Roger go for too much on his shots and that's why the errors are occuring with alarming regularity.

Great shot from Rafa to go 6-2 up in the tiebreak.

Good recovery from the rain delay by Nadal...you feel its going to be a herculean task for Federer now...and they're at 2hrs 10mins after 2 sets already!

Nadal might have a climbdown now after that set...

I am very dissapointed with the way Roger treats these Aranxta Sanchez' serves. He simply doesn't have a clue what to do with these 134 k/ph second serves...
Imo that's the big difference with Djoko against Nadal. Djoko puts much more pressure on Nadals serve.

And now I hope the British media who gave Andy such a tough time for losing to Rafa are seeing what Andy was up against. Very similar matches with tight setys (going Rafa's way) and his opponent just not taking their opportunities although Nadal always makes it tough when he is break point down.

Tom_____ wrote:

socal1976 wrote:3-0 in the tB game over.

you're being quite negative today social?

Tom I am not being negative just objective I knew this match was over the second Rafa broke back in the first set. Roger needed that first set. He ain't going to get it now.

Federer needs to hold it together and work out a way to keep himself in this 3rd set.

Tenez wrote:

you have to say thats also because Nadal found a way to play effectively against Federer on all surfaces.

Oh yes very clever. They all hit relentlessly Fed's BH, trying to put as much spin but not many manage to actually beat him. I wonder why Nadal is more successful? of course...I forgot...more talent!

And bloody Federer must be a bit thick. He is always beaten the same way and cannot find out an alternative tactic. I wonder how he won so many slams with such a lack of tennis strategy. Nadal has more know-how, it's obvious.

Er... are you OK Tenez?

My point was that if Federers game is truely undone by one shot, then why is it not the case that other players exploit the same weakness - sure we have seen Djoko and Murray to an extent have more success playing to Feds BH constantly; but the ability to hit it well enough to stop Federer having time to run around it takes ability in other areas - such as picking up low shots or blocking shots to a length repeatedly - Not all of Nadals shots to Federers backhand come from power, forehands or topspin - many times its great placement dug out from a tough position

Dont remember Nole coping too well with the 135mph serves at USO...

gallery play wrote:I am very dissapointed with the way Roger treats these Aranxta Sanchez' serves. He simply doesn't have a clue what to do with these 134 k/ph second serves...
Imo that's the big difference with Djoko against Nadal. Djoko puts much more pressure on Nadals serve.

That is pretty funny Aranxta Sanchez serves. But like I said we will never know because of the two sets of rust smiling Fabio fognini handed Novak in the semi.

Point being that Nadal employs the serves he needs at the time, if 134KPH is killing Federer then why serve faster?

Has anyone got a stat for points won? I bet its close.

Not sure why impending defeats bring the worst out in people.

96 vs 89 eirebilly - but as always its the key ones that count...

lydian wrote:Dont remember Nole coping too well with the 135mph serves at USO...

Actually he coped quite well and broke Nadal several times. His own serve completely deserted him he basically played that final with no serve and still went out in 4 tough sets. That was still when Novak was building his serve back up from the whole martin fiasco in spring.

gallery play wrote:I am very dissapointed with the way Roger treats these Aranxta Sanchez' serves. He simply doesn't have a clue what to do with these 134 k/ph second serves...
Imo that's the big difference with Djoko against Nadal. Djoko puts much more pressure on Nadals serve.

Currently Nadal has only won 40% of second service points (36% set 1, 50% set 2). To be honest thats plenty of pressure applied by Fed - its the other eras of the game Fed is struggling with at the moment - one inparticular is Feds 2nd serve. Fed currently winning 38% (close to NAdal), but the % has decreased during the match from 33% in set 1 to 29% set two - oddly when i wrote this Fed had won100% 2nd serves set 3.