Le Big Match - Nadal v Federer

First topic message reminder :

After a breathtaking day of semi finals, we have our two men to compete in the final.

Who wins?

Just so you understand, I'm going to merge this thread with the FO poll by YIMan sometime tonight.

It'll be under this threads title.

socal, I hear you re: foggy vs NoDjo (its a shame it lost Nole a match to tie Mac) but Nole had his chances against Fed - he served for a set but Fed was simply too good in coming back at him.
And again, I dispute that Nole would have won today had he beaten Fed...Nadal as we know is a monster to beat over 5 sets, and he was in much worse form when Nole was beating him at Madrid and Rome.
I agree that foggy shouldnt turn up at any events before Wimbledon if he has a torn thigh but I just dont agree it affected the overall outcome with Fed because he still had time to come back into the match even after losing the first set. He was simply feeling too much pressure and Fed played better than anyone expected.

Why would you merge my thread? I don't want you to! Thanks.

Well done Rafa

Enough the cerveza Haddie-Nuff

lydian wrote:socal, I hear you re: foggy vs NoDjo (its a shame it lost Nole a match to tie Mac) but Nole had his chances against Fed - he served for a set but Fed was simply too good in coming back at him.
And again, I dispute that Nole would have won today had he beaten Fed...Nadal as we know is a monster to beat over 5 sets, and he was in much worse form when Nole was beating him at Madrid and Rome.
I agree that foggy shouldnt turn up at any events before Wimbledon if he has a torn thigh but I just dont agree it affected the overall outcome with Fed because he still had time to come back into the match even after losing the first set. He was simply feeling too much pressure and Fed played better than anyone expected.

Lydian not only does Fogi not showing up create give Novak two sets of rust, but the fact that if he goes into the fed match level with Mac's record like he would have been if Fogi had showed up and played a single point, well then the pressure would have been much less to begin with. Imagine the difference of playing Fogi to tie Mac's record and playing federer. novak gifted roger sets #1 and 2 as well as roger was playing and he was playing real well. Novak played well in set 4 and still lost it. But if fogi shows up Novak goes into the Roger match even with Mac in the record book that takes about half of the pressure of the match not to mention the rust factor. Like I said Roger won, Rafa is the champ, nothing I say changes the points, the prize money, or the record book. But if Fogi shows up before wimbeldon then in my mind this entire french open is tainted.

lydian wrote:Enough the cerveza Haddie-Nuff

Hey Lydian have been on stronger than Cerveza... that third set got me hitting the Gin & Tonica no less Did I doubt him.... well for a little while there bless his Spanish cotton socks

socal1976 wrote:

lydian wrote:socal, I hear you re: foggy vs NoDjo (its a shame it lost Nole a match to tie Mac) but Nole had his chances against Fed - he served for a set but Fed was simply too good in coming back at him.
And again, I dispute that Nole would have won today had he beaten Fed...Nadal as we know is a monster to beat over 5 sets, and he was in much worse form when Nole was beating him at Madrid and Rome.
I agree that foggy shouldnt turn up at any events before Wimbledon if he has a torn thigh but I just dont agree it affected the overall outcome with Fed because he still had time to come back into the match even after losing the first set. He was simply feeling too much pressure and Fed played better than anyone expected.

Lydian not only does Fogi not showing up create give Novak two sets of rust, but the fact that if he goes into the fed match level with Mac's record like he would have been if Fogi had showed up and played a single point, well then the pressure would have been much less to begin with. Imagine the difference of playing Fogi to tie Mac's record and playing federer. novak gifted roger sets #1 and 2 as well as roger was playing and he was playing real well. Novak played well in set 4 and still lost it. But if fogi shows up Novak goes into the Roger match even with Mac in the record book that takes about half of the pressure of the match not to mention the rust factor. Like I said Roger won, Rafa is the champ, nothing I say changes the points, the prize money, or the record book. But if Fogi shows up before wimbeldon then in my mind this entire french open is tainted.

I had my favorite Ballantines scotch during this match so I am one up on you. scotch with 3 ice cubes per drink.

Oh right Tenez so the shots Rafa plays he just holds his racket out and the ball bounces off it with no talent in the shot whatsoever?

So it all rests on fognini. We would have to watch his return with deed abated breath because if he returns in two weeks then this FO will termed tainted.

Oh DEAR! Everey thread i seem to go on seems to be about FOGNINI courtesy of SOCAL...PLEASE can we be saved from him!

That is how I see it wow. I am not saying it changes anything, you don't have to wait for anything. Rafa deserved his win, so did Fed. But if Fogi shows up before wimby then in my personal opinion this french open 2011 will always have a taint. That is just my personal opinion nobody else I am sure will ever even remember it, but I will.

sonic_boom10 wrote:

socal1976 wrote:

lydian wrote:socal, I hear you re: foggy vs NoDjo (its a shame it lost Nole a match to tie Mac) but Nole had his chances against Fed - he served for a set but Fed was simply too good in coming back at him.
And again, I dispute that Nole would have won today had he beaten Fed...Nadal as we know is a monster to beat over 5 sets, and he was in much worse form when Nole was beating him at Madrid and Rome.
I agree that foggy shouldnt turn up at any events before Wimbledon if he has a torn thigh but I just dont agree it affected the overall outcome with Fed because he still had time to come back into the match even after losing the first set. He was simply feeling too much pressure and Fed played better than anyone expected.

Lydian not only does Fogi not showing up create give Novak two sets of rust, but the fact that if he goes into the fed match level with Mac's record like he would have been if Fogi had showed up and played a single point, well then the pressure would have been much less to begin with. Imagine the difference of playing Fogi to tie Mac's record and playing federer. novak gifted roger sets #1 and 2 as well as roger was playing and he was playing real well. Novak played well in set 4 and still lost it. But if fogi shows up Novak goes into the Roger match even with Mac in the record book that takes about half of the pressure of the match not to mention the rust factor. Like I said Roger won, Rafa is the champ, nothing I say changes the points, the prize money, or the record book. But if Fogi shows up before wimbeldon then in my mind this entire french open is tainted.

Just reading back over this thread after the match.

As a point of interest, didn't Roger have a 5 day break between 4th round and quarter final at Wimbledon in 2007 - and still went on to win his next match and the championship.

I think the pressure of what he was about to achieve got to Djokovic on Friday - and Feds played really well.

Well done to Rafa today!

Tenez wrote:Why would you merge my thread? I don't want you to! Thanks.

Because it is mirroring each other, and we have to de-clutter the boards, we can't have two threads discussing the same topic.

Sorry, but that's the way it is, its not like you're losing anything is it ?

A player dropping out of a match doesn't affect a tournament. Now if we believe everything we read the extra two days rest Novak got may have been very handy as he is reported to be carrying an injury hence his pull out of the Aegon Championships at Queens Club. It may have unsettled Novak not playing but to say it cost him the championship is a little daft.

Talatonian wrote:Oh DEAR! Everey thread i seem to go on seems to be about FOGNINI courtesy of SOCAL...PLEASE can we be saved from him!

in respect to the deserved Champion Nadal and to you talatonian I will refrain from mentioning fognini again for at least 24 hours. Let the rafa fans enjoy this win. But I have voiced my opinion that is all it is. You won't convince me and fogi better not show his face before wimbeldon, or there should be an investigation. What he did is a lot more serious then Gasquet's miami incident and they crucified the poor guy for that.

socal1976 wrote:Tom, it is basically like Novak starting a new tournament with a federer who is in great form and at the end of the tournament. Like I said the record books, the prize money, the ATP will all say that it counts the same. But my personal opinion unless Fogi is really, and I am really hurt; then this FO has a taint in my book. only my personal opinion but that is what it is.

Even if it was like starting a new tournament, he should as a top tennis player be able to accept and deal with that and still come out playing well. Its always possible some one will pull out of a match. i agree its unfortunate, but in no way a tainting

I'm merging this thread with... https://www.606v2.com/t6367-le-big-match-nadal-v-federer ...tonight, just so you know.

It will appear under that title.

Thanks.

Tom that is your opinion you are entitled to it. It doesn't taint Rafa as the champ. But in my mind its a black eye for the tournament and for tennis. That is my opinion, and I will be watching to see if you know who shows up for the wimby warm ups. Rafa deserved what he accomplished so did Fed, Novak didn't deserve to get jobbed out of a record by Fogi.

Socal, the problem is not Fognini. It's the fact that Djoko won everything and got to number 2. Had he been mumber 3, he would have had a chance to let Nadal beat Fderer in the semi....and then he woudl have beaten Nadal convincing;y in the final.

Tenez wrote:Socal, the problem is not Fognini. It's the fact that Djoko won everything and got to number 2. Had he been mumber 3, he would have had a chance to let Nadal beat Fderer in the semi....and then he woudl have beaten Nadal convincing;y in the final.

Djokovic has never beaten Nadal in a Slam, so he wouldn't be beating him convincingly.

socal1976 wrote:Tom that is your opinion you are entitled to it. It doesn't taint Rafa as the champ. But in my mind its a black eye for the tournament and for tennis. That is my opinion, and I will be watching to see if you know who shows up for the wimby warm ups. Rafa deserved what he accomplished so did Fed, Novak didn't deserve to get jobbed out of a record by Fogi.

Right, so if Murray had pulled out against Berrer, or before the Troicki match with a slight injury and then had a week off and turned up to Queens, would we be saying that he is a disgrace and pulled out for a poor reason, tainting the FO by allowing other players to avoid him? Surely it would have been totally reasonable for Murray to pull out and protect his ankle - i'm glad he didn't but would we seriously be critical of him for doing so?

At the end of the day Fognini was in a slam QF for the first time was he not? Its disrespectful to him as a tennis player to suggest he'd pull out of a slam QF without being properly injured. you know only to well that small injuries can make a match worthless or a risky to cause more injury, so its irrelevant when he next plays. He would have been gutted not to be able to play, his best surface playing a game he loves

At the end of the Day Djoko is capable of playing great straight out of the box. Its not a given that fognini made him rusty, it was just a mere possibility. Just bad luck, thats all you can say. Its the loosest argument i can think of to argue that a player who receives a walkover was heavily penalised by not playing a match. Surely you have to admit there were benefits - like the chance to have extra rest and recover some energy. Had he won some people would have argued he was unfairly benefited by the W/o. You can't just blindly argue one side of a debate without considering the other.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Oh right Tenez so the shots Rafa plays he just holds his racket out and the ball bounces off it with no talent in the shot whatsoever?

Do you play tennis or did you just get an interest of the game because of Murray being successful.

If you do, you should know that a heavy topspin is a very safe shot compared to the shot hit by Federer. A big arm will muscle the ball way over the net, yet put enough topspin to drag the ball down well before the baseline. The harder you hit, the safer the shot almost....unlike Federer's shot who need the right balance between the net and the baseline.

If Federer had an arm and the stamina of Nadal he would play much less risky shots. This is what Murray and djoko can do. they are not as powerful as nadal but the have similar stamina but can compensate for their lesser power wirh better stricking of the ball, that is more talent.

Tenez, if Novak tied Mac's record in the Qf match then he would have had a lot less pressure in the fed match. Lets say he loses to a brilliant fed in the semi. he still would have been tied with Johnny Mac in the record books and had a great all time record. But he was the victim of the Italian Job(no offense to italians just a movie reference they are wonderful people) that stole the record from him. I don't think he played a good first two sets and all of sudden he gets his timing back and plays a great set number 3 and 4, (one of which he still loses). I am not saying Fed didn't deserve his win, or Rafa didn't deserve the french open, all I am saying is that Novak didn't deserve to get jobbed out of his record. Lets just say i will be watching real closely to see if a certain someone shows up before wimbeldon. Half the pressure of the fed match at least that part of it related to the streak would have been gone, not to mention the rust factor.

lydian wrote:Nadal in 4. The weather is an unknown factor though keeping the faster balls lower than before...Federer must win the first set.

^Some one who knows their tennis^

as for me i get to collect my 1.43 return on £20 - woo what a scoop that was

Tom, but murray played and so did Novak with a knee that was hurting him. Plus Espn reported that Fogi wasn't even limping in or out of his press interview. He pulled out the day before the match not even waiting to see how he felt the day of the match. And a torn thigh muscle is what was reported, so it isn't exactly something you come back from in two weeks, that is why i will be real suspicious if he shows up for queens. I am not blindly sticking to anything I have my reasons for suspicion.

Tenez, if Novak tied Mac's record in the Qf match then he would have had a lot less pressure in the fed match.
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Trust me! the streak had much less importance than winning the slam.

When Federer was on 41 streak, he had just won Montreal and lost to Hrbty in the first rounds o Cincy cause he wanted to save his energ for the USO. Streaks are a nice to have but not what they strive for.

Djoko knew that for him, his semi v Federer was the real final cause he owns Nadal.

Well it affected him, I have watched him religiously for years and during the streak and he laid a stinker in the first two sets. he played a great fourth and roger still one, but on the other hand he played a lousy first set and lost by a couple of points. Of course the semi was his final he wins and he ties mac in the record books and gets number one. He would have had better timing and form if he played a qf and the pressure from the streak would have been pretty much off his shoulders. And again this has nothing to do with Rog, he played great, so did Rafa; they aren't responsible for what took place. And like I said I will be watching very closely to see if Fogi and his torn thigh muscle show up for queens.

Tenez, tom it is late here in beautiful tehran so i will call it a night, if you guys have anything you would like to say I will pick it up in the morning. Have to wake up for work at 6 am.

Tenez wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Oh right Tenez so the shots Rafa plays he just holds his racket out and the ball bounces off it with no talent in the shot whatsoever?

Do you play tennis or did you just get an interest of the game because of Murray being successful.

If you do, you should know that a heavy topspin is a very safe shot compared to the shot hit by Federer. A big arm will muscle the ball way over the net, yet put enough topspin to drag the ball down well before the baseline. The harder you hit, the safer the shot almost....unlike Federer's shot who need the right balance between the net and the baseline.

If Federer had an arm and the stamina of Nadal he would play much less risky shots. This is what Murray and djoko can do. they are not as powerful as nadal but the have similar stamina but can compensate for their lesser power wirh better stricking of the ball, that is more talent.

Sorry but if you are trying to say that the only reason Nadal has won all his slams are because of this then you are clutching desperately at straws. Besides if he has such an effective shot it is up to other players to try to combat that. If Federer could play that shot you can bet your bottom dollar he would in the same manner. Nadal has now won TEN slams (not all on clay by the way) and has shown that he has got far more than just one unbelievable shot in his armoury.

Djoko still has a great streak record though... its not like he was equalling the best ever streak (vilas), just the next milestone in terms of Jonny Mac.

I have to say i agree with the view that streaks are not given massive priority by players. Look back at the vilas streak and see how he relinquished it and the subsequent streak he had after - also look up spaghetti strung racquets. If streaks means lots to players you would see them play far lower ranked tournies to extend them.

Djoko didn't handle the pressure well of being favourite against Fed in a slam Semi off HC. Bad luck about Fognini, but injuries (great and small) happen. As for the limping thing - ive torn a thigh and it doesn't make you walk with a limp - try to jog/run of move sideways and its a different matter. You're putting far far too much into this, loses happen for a plefora of reasons.

No one remember streaks and the only reason we did was because Novak was near Mac's...otherwise when did people talk about Mac's streak?

I'm still loving the 10 slams and Nadal has no talent argument. Ridiculous.

Indeed, we also have the Murray and Djokovic have much more talent argument too...yet both have 2 slams in total to Nadal's 10, and is only 11 months older than them. Too many lemons being eaten around here one thinks. When people argue about other players in this way I wonder if they are fans of tennis at all...

Tenez wrote:Tenez, if Novak tied Mac's record in the Qf match then he would have had a lot less pressure in the fed match.
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Trust me! the streak had much less importance than winning the slam.

When Federer was on 41 streak, he had just won Montreal and lost to Hrbty in the first rounds o Cincy cause he wanted to save his energ for the USO. Streaks are a nice to have but not what they strive for.

Djoko knew that for him, his semi v Federer was the real final cause he owns Nadal.

Well do you know what Tenez iRafa doesn´t give a toss... cos he won his 6th FO today.. and for him and his fans that is just about the greatest news... so my friend like it or no.. you are going to have to live with it

when mention about greatness in tennis,,people mention about number of slams won

likewise in football/soccer,,its cups that are counted

arsenal invincible season was sweet,,yet man utd had dominated epl for years
ronaldo might just break the top scorers of all time in laliga,,yet barca who was having last laugh winning double.


streaks are sweet,,but slams defined ur greatness

A better player won today. Well done to both. While Nadal deserves the title, Fed definitely played much better then expected.

Wimbledon will be hot this year!

graf_the_greatest wrote:All this Fognini bashing is petty & ridiculous. Whether he was really injured or not is irrelevant. Streaks are amazing, as Djokovic's has been but winning tournaments, in particular the Grand Slams are the most important thing.

It doesn't matter that he was one short of McEnroe, it was still a great run. More importantly he won 7 titles in the process and beat Nadal & Federer several times.

Carping on about Fognini takes away from Djokovic's supporters. And if Djokovic goes on to win other majors I'm sure you'll care less about a streak.

Winning streaks/no.1 rankings are secondary to the likes of Djokovic and Nadal - give them a slam title any day of the week.

I'm sure that being No1 means something to these players, but I'm not sure its held in such high esteem as it did a few years ago.

Many players are on the threshold of bringing down records and at the top of this list is Nadal's slam title streak, Djokovics run of form, Federer's pursuit of a few more titles and Murray's hunger for his 1st.

I would think that they all have these as a primary goal, and being No1 is just icing on the cake ATM, nice to have but it doesn't make the cake any less tastier if its not there.

Oh it means something Jubb but not as much as a slam win - that is what all players strive for. I mean slams have been existence far far longer than the rankings and rankings are still open to debate whilst no one can really argue with a slam winner.