Rugby Championship week 1

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Couldn't see a thread for this so thought I'd stick one up

Date: Saturday, August 20
Venue: ANZ Stadium, Sydney
Kick-off: 20:05 local (10:05 GMT)
Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant Referees: Romain Poite (France), Federico Anselmi (Argentina)
TMO: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

Australia: 15 Israel Folau, 14 Adam Ashley-Cooper, 13 Tevita Kuridrani, 12 Matt Giteau, 11 Dane Haylett-Petty, 10 Bernard Foley, 9 Will Genia, 8 David Pocock, 7 Michael Hooper, 6 Ben McCalman, 5 Rob Simmons, 4 Kane Douglas, 3 Sekope Kepu, 2 Stephen Moore, 1 Scott Sio
Replacements: 16 Tatafu Polota-Nau, 17 James Slipper, 18 Allan Alaalatoa, 19 Dean Mumm, 20 Scott Fardy, 21 Nick Phipps, 22 Matt Toomua, 23 Rob Horne

New Zealand: 15 Israel Dagg, 14 Ben Smith, 13 Malakai Fekitoa, 12 Ryan Crotty, 11 Waisake Naholo, 10 Beauden Barrett, 9 Aaron Smith, 8 Kieran Read (c), 7 Sam Cane, 6 Jerome Kaino, 5 Sam Whitelock, 4 Brodie Retallick, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Codie Taylor, 1 Wyatt Crockett
Replacements: 16 Dane Coles, 17 Kane Hames, 18 Charlie Faumuina, 19 Liam Squire, 20 Ardie Savea, 21 TJ Perenara, 22 Aaron Cruden, 23 Julian Savea


Date: Saturday, August 20
Venue: Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit
Kick-off: 17:05 local (15:05 GMT)
Referee: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
Assistant Referees: Jérôme Garcès (France), Ben O’Keeffe (New Zealand)
TMO: George Ayoub (Australia)

South Africa: 15 Johan Goosen, 14 Ruan Combrinck, 13 Lionel Mapoe, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Elton Jantjies, Faf de Klerk, 8 Warren Whiteley, 7 Teboho Mohoje, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Julian Redelinghuys, 2 Adriaan Strauss (c) , Tendai Mtawarira.
Replacements: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 20 Jaco Kriel, 21 Rudy Paige, 22 Juan de Jongh, 23 Jesse Kriel.

Argentina: 15 Joaquín Tuculet, 14 Santiago Cordero, 13 Matías Orlando, 12 Juan Martín Hernández, 11 Manuel Montero, 10 Nicolás Sánchez, 9 Martín Landajo, 8 Facundo Isa, 7 Juan Manuel Leguizamon, 6 Pablo Matera, 5 Tomas Lavanini, 4 Matías Alemanno, 3 Ramiro Herrera, 2 Agustín Creevy, 1 Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro.
Replacements: 16 Julián Montoya, 17 Felipe Arregui, 18 Enrique Pieretto, 19 Guido Petti, 20 Javier Ortega Desio, 21 Tomás Cubelli, 22 Santiago Gonzalez Iglesias, 23 Ramiro Moyano.

Wallabies 10-3 down. Lineout still a mess. Adam Ashley Cooper off for a Head Injury Assessment.

oh dear all blacks open the aussies up again far too easily from a set piece. Only a TMO can save them now, but does not look like a knock on. Try is given 15-6

Another try for NZ as the Wallaby defence lost all shape. 15-6

AAC not returning.

If Australia can keep the gap to nine before half-time, or even get something back, then that will be a decent result.

No attack from Ozy

Just as Australia get back to 15-9, they get a silly yellow card before half-time.

The Aussies have an underpowered pack, poor half backs and a week attacking midfield. They may be fronting up a bit, but the they are still poor.

Australia held on to the 15-9 scoreline but they'll still have five minutes to last with 14 men.

The All Blacks squandered a few chances around the half hour mark. In particular, they had a penalty but the hooker Coles swung his arm in the clear-out, so it was reversed.

If Australia can get back to 15 men, and put another penalty on the board, then they might start wondering whether there's a chance to pull off an upset.

Good spoil from Ozy. They will need to keep it very simply, lineout + maul = penalty, and maybe a chance to get over the line may present itself.

AB's skill set is generally at a different level.....so how did that happen?

Simple try form NZ, good skills, but awful defence again.

Australia held out for the yellow card period but shipped a third try just after it ended.

22-9

From an english prspective I can't help but think how EJ et al will be thinking.....how to beat the AB's?

You have to at the very least equal their detail.

How does the bonus point system work?

Yes NZ are very good but can't help thinking these two matches reflect more how poor Austalia has become. Decision making and basic skill is terrible.

Coles looking good on the wing again.

offload wrote:Yes NZ are very good but can't help thinking these two matches reflect more how poor Austalia has become.  Decision making and basic skill is terrible.

Oz have gone downhill at an alarming rate since RWC15 when they gave England a thrashing and were very competitive against NZ in most of the final. How has that happened?

Apparently Hansen is very concerned that because this Australian team, and Wales are no all that competitive, the ABs have not been getting tested enough. if this carries on all of a sudden a side will ambush and the ABs wil not be able to react.

Anyway,good effort, and they did well to win the Bledisloe cup.

David-Douglas wrote:

offload wrote:Yes NZ are very good but can't help thinking these two matches reflect more how poor Austalia has become.  Decision making and basic skill is terrible.

Oz have gone downhill at an alarming rate since RWC15 when they gave England a thrashing and were very competitive against NZ in most of the final. How has that happened?

NZ have moved the game on (or the game they are playing at least) with their passing and off-loading constantly moving the point of contact beyond the defense (Ozy's defense at least, how such a strategy will play out against either of South Africa's or England's rush is largely the nub of the debate - though wether anyone has the attack to beat them is another matter.)

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Apparently Hansen is very concerned that because this Australian team, and Wales are no all that competitive, the ABs have not been getting tested enough. if this carries on all of  a sudden a side will ambush and the ABs wil not be able to react.

Oh dear, shades of England 2003 here . Why don't you leave world rugby as planned...

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Apparently Hansen is very concerned that because this Australian team, and Wales are no all that competitive, the ABs have not been getting tested enough. if this carries on all of  a sudden a side will ambush and the ABs wil not be able to react.

Anyway,good effort, and they did well to win the Bledisloe cup.

When are they playing Samoa again?

mikey_dragon wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Apparently Hansen is very concerned that because this Australian team, and Wales are no all that competitive, the ABs have not been getting tested enough. if this carries on all of  a sudden a side will ambush and the ABs wil not be able to react.

Oh dear, shades of England 2003 here . Why don't you leave world rugby as planned...

He's concerned about the period of the next couple of months not after 2019.

kingelderfield wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Apparently Hansen is very concerned that because this Australian team, and Wales are no all that competitive, the ABs have not been getting tested enough. if this carries on all of  a sudden a side will ambush and the ABs wil not be able to react.

Anyway,good effort, and they did well to win the Bledisloe cup.

When are they playing Samoa again?

I cant recall a game being scheduled.

Congrats New Zealand. The offloading and relentless pressure is something else.

Kudos.

Pot Hale wrote:Congrats New Zealand.   The offloading and relentless pressure is something else.

Kudos.

offload wrote:The Aussies have an underpowered pack, poor half backs and a week attacking midfield.  They may be fronting up a bit, but the they are still poor.

More worrying for Australia is that they have no discernible game plan. The players just move the ball around with no real direction. The pack has no balance, the lineout is cack and the discipline is poor (the yellow card was complete stupidity). Chieka needs to sit down and make some changes because personnel isn't his biggest problem at the minute. Mind set and game plan first then he can tinker.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

offload wrote:The Aussies have an underpowered pack, poor half backs and a week attacking midfield.  They may be fronting up a bit, but the they are still poor.

More worrying for Australia is that they have no discernible game plan. The players just move the ball around with no real direction. The pack has no balance, the lineout is cack and the discipline is poor (the yellow card was complete stupidity). Chieka needs to sit down and make some changes because personnel isn't his biggest problem at the minute. Mind set and game plan first then he can tinker.

He won't be around much longer if things don't start to change. His ref whinging certainly won't help him. Also for his sake I hope they let the yell of "Frak cheat" go and say it was directed at a player and not the ref.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Apparently Hansen is very concerned that because this Australian team, and Wales are no all that competitive, the ABs have not been getting tested enough. if this carries on all of  a sudden a side will ambush and the ABs wil not be able to react.

Anyway,good effort, and they did well to win the Bledisloe cup.

I'd always be happy with 29-9 against Australia, home or away, so I wouldn't want to sound too picky. However, I thought the All Blacks had Australia on toast after that first try, and was surprised they only made it to 15 points by half time. I think one of the commentators said that it looked like New Zealand might score every time they had possession, especially in the opposition half. That's how it seemed to me too.

So, I would wonder why things didn't quite click for them at that time. It certainly wasn't resolute Australian defence.

Australia will still go away from this match pretty disheartened, but it could easily have been a half-time scoreline like last week. If it had gone that way, I doubt there would have been much second half Wallaby resistance.

This is the Franks on Douglas alleged gouging incident that boiled Cheika's blood

https://twitter.com/eatsleeprugby/status/769490644440125440

It should be dealt with but Cheika can sod off. He goes grump when ex players question the team but he thinks it's fine to question the refs in public

I thought NZ were good today, but only their lineout was truly outstanding. They executed well in attack, but it was some woeful tackling that really cost Australia. They seemed to be standing off in defence and just left too many holes for NZ to go through.

On the occasions when Oz were up out of the line quickly, they did cause some problems. It will be interesting to see what problems a more aggressive defensive system might pose.

NZ were also a bit lucky with some decisions. The first try should have been disallowed for a block, and Franks was a very lucky boy to stay on the pitch.

NZ were by far the better team.

It'll be interesting to see how they go up against a sterner defence, somehow I think they'll be alright tbh

Only issue I have with the game is the amount the refs seem to favour NZ, it might only be subconsciously, or not at all. But every game there seem to be these instances where a NZ player gets away with something that you think a SA or Arg player would get pinged/binned for.

The trick is worry less about the ref and concentrate more on the rugby, amazing what a difference it makes when you get to the one week plus 80 minute mark.

During last nights game  cameras were trained on both the coaches boxes, mainly to broadcast the reactions when penalties are given or not given. At one stage Michael Cheika is clearly seen to be announcing "F*#k off" to a refereeing decision, meanwhile Hansen is calmly analaysing the game, his bench activity and communicating with his bench etc.

Cheika was playing the Ref, Hansen was playing the game.

Think thats more to the natural makeup of the men involved tbh than simply Chieka is less bothered on where to improve things.

Rather magnificent try for Argentina. Could we possibly see Argentina second in this years championship

No 7&1/2 wrote:Think thats more to the natural makeup of the men involved tbh than simply Chieka is less bothered on where to improve things.

I remember once attending a coaching seminar and the facilitator (a Provincial coach) told us how the performance of a coach on game day is a reflection of his weeks preparation prior to the game.

Is it? Alex Ferguson must have been rubbish then.

Arg won. Perhaps the NH should be a lot more concerned about the puma's these days - the SH 'big 4'.

Highlights of the Puma's match:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cFqGlKa0kk

That drop goal attempt by Morne Steyn was really bad (how this guy is still selected anyway??) and they left too many points from not converting tries and penalties. That said Argentina deserved this as were the better team imo finishing with key players injured during the 2H and far from being helped by the referee...

Liked the reply from Hansen regarding Cheika moaning about the ref. Saying that he wasn't complaining in the Scotland game.

Cheika is certainly under pressure but he needs to stop blaming external factors

Good win for Argentina btw, always great to see them getting the wins

yappysnap wrote:Good win for Argentina btw, always great to see them getting the wins

England should be wondering about the wisdom of touring Argentina with a squad missing frontline players on Lions duty.

Rugby Fan wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Good win for Argentina btw, always great to see them getting the wins

England should be wondering about the wisdom of touring Argentina with a squad missing frontline players on Lions duty.

Maybe. But a tour of Argentina is a good test for the wider squad, and in 2001 it was the platform for building the 2003 squad. Also, England are likely to have a squad of experienced internationals left even after you take the Lions tourists away. Especially with Gatland selecting.

Plus, France went to Argentina this summer with 2nd/3rd choice players and managed a loss in the first test and a resounding win in the second, once players from the losing barrage round of the T14 joined up.

An England 2nd choice XV right now would be something like:

Marler George Hill
Launchbury Lawes
Harrison Clifford Hughes (or Robshaw, because Gatland won't pick him)
Care Burns
Slade Daly
Yarde Goode Rokoduguni

I'm not saying they'd definitely beat a full strength Argentina on tour, but they'd at least be in with a shout.

sensisball wrote:Plus, France went to Argentina this summer with 2nd/3rd choice players and managed a loss in the first test and a resounding win in the second,  once players from the losing barrage round of the T14 joined up.

To me, that just reinforces the point that you shouldn't expect a win with less than your best.

Poorfour wrote:a tour of Argentina is a good test for the wider squad, and in 2001 it was the platform for building the 2003 squad.

Certainly true, but times have changed. Even as recently as 2013, when Lancaster took England to Argentina, we played a weakened Pumas side because many played with French sides, so there was an unofficial/official quid pro quo in place.

Now, however, the Pumas are near full strength in summer because the Jaguares are playing Super Rugby.

We'll still learn even from losses, could show us the weaknesses in the fringe/squad players too

Rugby Fan wrote:Certainly true, but times have changed. Even as recently as 2013, when Lancaster took England to Argentina, we played a weakened Pumas side because many played with French sides, so there was an unofficial/official quid pro quo in place.

Now, however, the Pumas are near full strength in summer because the Jaguares are playing Super Rugby.

They're tough, that's for sure. But if you look at the notional 2nd string above, it's still a bloody good team. A bit light on experience at 10, 12 and 13 (though if Tuilagi is back in the mix then I can't see both him and Joseph touring) but otherwise it's strong across the pitch. Argentina are improving but they still play a fairly direct, physical game; match that, and they can be contained.

Prior to the summer tours, Argentina were 5th, 4 points ahead of France - they would have been expected to beat France, and in fact it was France's win that was (quite a large) upset. That lost cost them heavily, but after Saturday's excellent win, they're 7th in the World Rugby Rankings, 8 points behind England. If those positions are maintained, England at full strength would be expected to have a clear edge, even away. I think the strength in depth is sufficient that a 2nd string will still be close to parity.

Just reading the stats from the ABs/Wallabies game.

Sam Cane is turning into an absolute monster of a player.

If England don't beat SA in the Autumn and Wales don't beat Aus we are both going to look a bit poopie.