Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread XIII - Camp Crystal Meth

[A Simply Mesmeric Try]

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[EST]

On the yank signing, he looks pretty rubbish.  Yes, big and aggressive - but so is everybody these days.  He reminds me of Amanaki Mafi, but without the rugby playing ability.

An unknown quantity to be fair. Toonie clearly fancies a punt on him, or why give him 2 years. He has been right before, so lets give him the benefit.

He will need some time to get fit enough and to get up to speed though, so I don't see him being the immediate answer to our back row problems.

Don't get me wrong, he certainly has all of the physical tools to be a very competent player. But as you say, that is going to take some time (if at all) to achieve. I would much rather we looked for a big fella who already knows how to play rugby professionally. The two most obvious comparisons are with Folau Niau and Carlin Isles, neither of which were particularly successful.

[RDW]

Maybe the Carruthers brothers are interested again and Stephen Larkin is going to fill the void left by Duncan Weir...

[EST]

Maybe the Carruthers brothers are interested again and Stephen Larkin is going to fill the void left by Duncan Weir...

He is still probably better that the Tovenator

[Senlac]

Maybe the Carruthers brothers are interested again and Stephen Larkin is going to fill the void left by Duncan Weir...

Or speaking of Weirs*, maybe they're looking for something to do with their money?

*By that I mean the millionaire lottery winners, not Duncy's mum and dad.

[RDW]

Maybe the Carruthers brothers are interested again and Stephen Larkin is going to fill the void left by Duncan Weir...

Or speaking of Weirs*, maybe they're looking for something to do with their money?

*By that I mean the millionaire lottery winners, not Duncy's mum and dad.

The guy is big enough to play tighthead anyway, and his wife too to be fair!

[Senlac]

Maybe the Carruthers brothers are interested again and Stephen Larkin is going to fill the void left by Duncan Weir...

Or speaking of Weirs*, maybe they're looking for something to do with their money?

*By that I mean the millionaire lottery winners, not Duncy's mum and dad.

The guy is big enough to play tighthead anyway, and his wife too to be fair!

Ooft, bit harsh!

[RDW]

But fair!

[funnyExiledScot]

Maybe the Carruthers brothers are interested again and Stephen Larkin is going to fill the void left by Duncan Weir...

Or speaking of Weirs*, maybe they're looking for something to do with their money?

*By that I mean the millionaire lottery winners, not Duncy's mum and dad.

The guy is big enough to play tighthead anyway, and his wife too to be fair!

Ooft, bit harsh!  

I thought they gave all their money to the Nats.

[EWT Spoons]

Why would you have an emergency general meeting to test the water? Get everybody worked up about it, then nothing happens.

I would go with the, we are not being told the whole story approach. You can understand as well that any potential investors would like to remain incognito until they know if it is even going to be possible to invest.

Yeah sorry 'test the water' was a poor choice of words. I just meant maybe they are trying to be proactive and are seeing if the members are open to the idea, rather than say waiting until whenever the next scheduled meeting is due to take place, given it could be months down the line and they want to get the ball moving. I appreciate it's an unusual move, but the SRU does have form for going against the norm.

Or as you say perhaps there has been interest shown and they are moving forward. I still struggle to understand what the benefit to any potential investor would be though, but I'm obviously not close to it, so there is likely to be stuff not being said in public.

[RDW]

Would investors maybe be offered a stake in the SRU profits, not just what Edinburgh/Glasgow make (i.e. no profits)

Not sure how that would work from a business PoV but the SRU as a whole is the only thing that actually makes money.

[MacKnocked-on]

On the yank signing, he looks pretty rubbish.  Yes, big and aggressive - but so is everybody these days.  He reminds me of Amanaki Mafi, but without the rugby playing ability.

An unknown quantity to be fair. Toonie clearly fancies a punt on him, or why give him 2 years. He has been right before, so lets give him the benefit.

He will need some time to get fit enough and to get up to speed though, so I don't see him being the immediate answer to our back row problems.

Don't get me wrong, he certainly has all of the physical tools to be a very competent player.  But as you say, that is going to take some time (if at all) to achieve.  I would much rather we looked for a big fella who already knows how to play rugby professionally.  The two most obvious comparisons are with Folau Niau and Carlin Isles, neither of which were particularly successful.

With the signing of another back row player can we assume that Blake won't be returning to Glasgow next month at the end of his 'loan' to Bay of Plenty? If so it's a a shame for him as I don't think he was given much of a chance here.

[BigGee]

Would investors maybe be offered a stake in the SRU profits, not just what Edinburgh/Glasgow make (i.e. no profits)

Not sure how that would work from a business PoV but the SRU as a whole is the only thing that actually makes money.

You would have to separate out the revenues that are actually due to Glasgow and not just their gate money, which as a rough estimate (15 games x 7000 people spending roughly £20/head) is around £2 million. They would also be due a slice of the sponsorship deals and the TV money, which would bring up that amount considerably. It still would not cover the entire cost, but would be a lot closer. You would guess that any investor would fancy that they could grow the revenues.

This does assume that they see making money as their primary aim and not just exposure, publicity and maybe even love of the game. How many sports organisations around the world, outside top football teams really do make money, not many in rugby do, that's for sure, but they do still happen.

[BigGee]

On the yank signing, he looks pretty rubbish.  Yes, big and aggressive - but so is everybody these days.  He reminds me of Amanaki Mafi, but without the rugby playing ability.

An unknown quantity to be fair. Toonie clearly fancies a punt on him, or why give him 2 years. He has been right before, so lets give him the benefit.

He will need some time to get fit enough and to get up to speed though, so I don't see him being the immediate answer to our back row problems.

Don't get me wrong, he certainly has all of the physical tools to be a very competent player.  But as you say, that is going to take some time (if at all) to achieve.  I would much rather we looked for a big fella who already knows how to play rugby professionally.  The two most obvious comparisons are with Folau Niau and Carlin Isles, neither of which were particularly successful.

With the signing of another back row player can we assume that Blake won't be returning to Glasgow next month at the end of his 'loan' to Bay of Plenty? If so it's a a shame for him as I don't think he was given much of a chance here.

Whatever is going on with Blake and I agree that it is far from clear, this guy is not the same kind of player and they won't be competing with one another, albeit they are both playing in the back row. The current back row situation would suggest that there is room for both of them.

[Senlac]

Maybe the Carruthers brothers are interested again and Stephen Larkin is going to fill the void left by Duncan Weir...

Or speaking of Weirs*, maybe they're looking for something to do with their money?

*By that I mean the millionaire lottery winners, not Duncy's mum and dad.

The guy is big enough to play tighthead anyway, and his wife too to be fair!

Ooft, bit harsh!  

I thought they gave all their money to the Nats.

Cheers Fes, you just won me £5 on an office bet! Knew you wouldn't be able to resist!

[funnyExiledScot]

Maybe the Carruthers brothers are interested again and Stephen Larkin is going to fill the void left by Duncan Weir...

Or speaking of Weirs*, maybe they're looking for something to do with their money?

*By that I mean the millionaire lottery winners, not Duncy's mum and dad.

The guy is big enough to play tighthead anyway, and his wife too to be fair!

Ooft, bit harsh!  

I thought they gave all their money to the Nats.

Cheers Fes, you just won me £5 on an office bet!  Knew you wouldn't be able to resist!

Thanks. I try to be consistent wherever possible!

The new Glasgow man looks like some intensive conditioning is required!

[RDW]

As always Tom English also sums things up very well

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37507606

[nickj]

I read that too. I always think English writes the bleeding obvious. Isn't he an Irishman too? Surely the Beeb could afford one of our day rates?

[RDW]

I think Tom is one of the best out there - the Old Firm fans hate him because he regularly calls them out on various things, but I think he's a good sports journalist.

The sad thing is it has been bleeding obvious that things have been wrong at Edinburgh for a long time but nothing was done about it!

[nickj]

You're right there. One thing that strikes me is how much Edinburgh are missing Bresler. Is he the glue that binds the pack together?

[R!skysports]

You're right there. One thing that strikes me is how much Edinburgh are missing Bresler. Is he the glue that binds the pack together?

Would not make a difference, if the rest of the team can not pass or catch a ball

Hopefully will make a difference, as good to have 2 professional teams in Scotland once again

[A Simply Mesmeric Try]

On the yank signing, he looks pretty rubbish.  Yes, big and aggressive - but so is everybody these days.  He reminds me of Amanaki Mafi, but without the rugby playing ability.

An unknown quantity to be fair. Toonie clearly fancies a punt on him, or why give him 2 years. He has been right before, so lets give him the benefit.

He will need some time to get fit enough and to get up to speed though, so I don't see him being the immediate answer to our back row problems.

Don't get me wrong, he certainly has all of the physical tools to be a very competent player.  But as you say, that is going to take some time (if at all) to achieve.  I would much rather we looked for a big fella who already knows how to play rugby professionally.  The two most obvious comparisons are with Folau Niau and Carlin Isles, neither of which were particularly successful.

With the signing of another back row player can we assume that Blake won't be returning to Glasgow next month at the end of his 'loan' to Bay of Plenty? If so it's a a shame for him as I don't think he was given much of a chance here.

Whatever is going on with Blake and I agree that it is far from clear, this guy is not the same kind of player and they won't be competing with one another, albeit they are both playing in the back row. The current back row situation would suggest that there is room for both of them.

Agreed. Langilangi does not appear to be a openside in any way, shape or form. Blake is a bona fide openside, and a damn good one at that. I hope to see him starting or Glasgow this season, which is totally possible with Fuzzy and Favvy injured. Blake is due back in a few weeks, right?

[Hazel Sapling]

I hope with Blake it is a case of getting playing time. Bay of Plenty are terrible and the season will end on the 16th for him. After this weekend they really ought to ask for him back. It is not like they are competing for anything but pride at this point in their final 3 games.

It was always a risk sending him off and now Glasgow are paying a price. He may even be needed to start against Leicester.

[Tattie Scones RRN]

What's this about Laidlaw going to Clermont next season?

[NeilyBroon]

What's this about Laidlaw going to Clermont next season?

He visited them in May, certainly wouldn't be a terrible move considering Gloucester have been in a bit of a no-man's-land-esque rut for a couple of seasons now.

This said I have no idea how Clermont are doing at the moment.

[IanBru]

Clermont are third in the top 14 and, almost inexplicably, La Rochelle are first!

Apparently wee Greig has signed a three-year deal avec les Jaunards - I wonder... will he speak French with a Jed accent?

[Hazel Sapling]

Clermont are 3rd after 6 matches having won 3, drawn 2(!), lost 1. If he can make the Clermont shirt his own, that would be fantastic.

I assume Parra is retiring and they have a 2nd fly half behind Cami Lopez as opposed to moving Laidlaw. Probably want a solid goal kicker to take some of the pressure off.

[Tattie Scones RRN]

If anyone knows anything about Hawick or the Common Riding, you'll appreciate this...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0499pmf

[George Carlin]

That would make sense - they love their yappy club captain 9s and you get an 85%+ goal kicker to boot. He's paid his dues with various bunches of diddies over the years so he's certainly earned the paycheque.

[funnyExiledScot]

That would make sense - they love their yappy club captain 9s and you get an 85%+ goal kicker to boot. He's paid his dues with various bunches of diddies over the years so he's certainly earned the paycheque.

Agreed. He's actually a very "French" sort of scrum half, in the Carbonneau, Galthie, Parra and Yashvili sort of style. Still, Glaws will miss him.

[EWT Spoons]

McKenzie banned for 2 weeks following his citing.

[RDW]

McKenzie banned for 2 weeks following his citing.

As expected, and good thing it wasn't longer.  As long as we don't pick up a lock injury in the next 2 weeks we're OK with Gilchrist and Toolis starting and Carmichael on the bench. A good opportunity for the young lock, who has been performing very well for Melrose supposedly.

[GLove39]

This could be the end of Greeg in a Scotland shirt

But there remains 1 sticking point before a deal can be signed. Midi says Clermont want Laidlaw "to rapidly put an end to his Test career".

[IanBru]

This could be the end of Greeg in a Scotland shirt

But there remains 1 sticking point before a deal can be signed. Midi says Clermont want Laidlaw "to rapidly put an end to his Test career".

I can only assume Nick De Luca had that same clause with his Edinburgh contract. He was trying so hard to end it.

[GLove39]

This could be the end of Greeg in a Scotland shirt

But there remains 1 sticking point before a deal can be signed. Midi says Clermont want Laidlaw "to rapidly put an end to his Test career".

I can only assume Nick De Luca had that same clause with his Edinburgh contract. He was trying so hard to end it.

Less of that!
Always felt sorry for De Luca having to play outside Parks & Morrison must've been about as much fun as gurgling cold cats urine. Add to that he was supposed to try & feed the likes of Niki Wwalker outside him!!!

[BigGee]

I had a very enjoyable afternoon watching London Scottish v Cornish Pirates in Richmond. LS won 25-24 which was no bad result as Pirate are well up in the league and were likely thinking this was a game that they could take points.

LS were noticeable for some nifty handling which brought them a couple of very good tries including a another 25 metre run in from a supporting Grant Sheils as well as some very stubborn defence. As the first half went on though, they were surely getting pasted by a very strong Pirates scum. They were going backwads every time and penalties were coming.

The LS coaches clearly noticed this to and they hooked the starting TH at half time. In his place comes on Euan McQuillan, who proceeds to anchor the LS scrum very effectively for the rest of the game and from that point onwards they achieved parity at least.

He never got any kind of a look in while he was a Edinburgh but on that showing you would have to say he was hard done by and was worthy of a chance. John Dalziel clearly sees something in him and brought him down south for another chance. Whoever takes over at Edinburgh might be worth having another look at him. It is not as if we are overflowing with good THs.

[RDW]

Great that LS got a win - hopefully they can have comfortable season and not get caught up in a relegation dogfight.

Interview with Tim Visser in the Scotsman this morning - apparently he's scored 9 tries in 11 starts for Quins! That's an impressive strike rate and completely vindicates why he had to leave Edinburgh.

He also revealed that he's got a long standing knee problem that may cut his career short, which is s shame to hear.

[Eejit]

I had a very enjoyable afternoon watching London Scottish v Cornish Pirates in Richmond. LS won 25-24 which was no bad result as Pirate are well up in the league and were likely thinking this was a game that they could take points.

LS were noticeable for some nifty handling which brought them a couple of very good tries including a another 25 metre run in from a supporting Grant Sheils as well as some very stubborn defence. As the first half went on though, they were surely getting pasted by a very strong Pirates scum. They were going backwads every time and penalties were coming.

The LS coaches clearly noticed this to and they hooked the starting TH at half time. In his place comes on Euan McQuillan, who proceeds to anchor the LS scrum very effectively for the rest of the game and from that point onwards they achieved parity at least.

He never got any kind of a look in while he was a Edinburgh but on that showing you would have to say he was hard done by and was worthy of a chance. John Dalziel clearly sees something in him and brought him down south for another chance. Whoever takes over at Edinburgh might be worth having another look at him. It is not as if we are overflowing with good THs.

Good summary and a bit of a shock win to be honest. After that first scrum it wasn't looking good.

The scrum resets t the start of the second half were a bit of a pain. The Pirates fan next to me was going absolutely ballistic.

[BigGee]

I had a very enjoyable afternoon watching London Scottish v Cornish Pirates in Richmond. LS won 25-24 which was no bad result as Pirate are well up in the league and were likely thinking this was a game that they could take points.

LS were noticeable for some nifty handling which brought them a couple of very good tries including a another 25 metre run in from a supporting Grant Sheils as well as some very stubborn defence. As the first half went on though, they were surely getting pasted by a very strong Pirates scum. They were going backwads every time and penalties were coming.

The LS coaches clearly noticed this to and they hooked the starting TH at half time. In his place comes on Euan McQuillan, who proceeds to anchor the LS scrum very effectively for the rest of the game and from that point onwards they achieved parity at least.

He never got any kind of a look in while he was a Edinburgh but on that showing you would have to say he was hard done by and was worthy of a chance. John Dalziel clearly sees something in him and brought him down south for another chance. Whoever takes over at Edinburgh might be worth having another look at him. It is not as if we are overflowing with good THs.

Good summary and a bit of a shock win to be honest. After that first scrum it wasn't looking good.

The scrum resets t the start of the second half were a bit of a pain. The Pirates fan next to me was going absolutely ballistic.

I was surprised how many Pirates fans there were, or at least at the amount of noise they were making!

The ref almost ruined the second half wiht the way he dealt with the scrums, there were plenty of times in that sequence he could have let the ball be played, but he kept on bringing them back. It did not make good watching and the crowd did not like it at all. Other than that it was a very entertaining game.

[BigGee]

Apparently Hugh Blake broke his ankle playing in NZ this weekend. Does not look as if he will be coming back to be the answer to Glasgow's back row issues any time soon!

[EWT Spoons]

Iain Morrison has some chat in the Scotsman today about 7 things Hodge should do at Edinburgh, some of the 7 seem slightly out of his control, but these are his suggestions:

1. Move away from Murrayfield
This has already been effected with the plan to play matches at Myreside from January but that is only half a solution. Edinburgh must find a new permanent training ground, be it at Heriot Watt’s campus or Edinburgh University’s well endowed site at Peffermill. There will be a cost but the benefits in terms of making a clean break from the SRU will be huge.

2 Be positive on the pitch
The game has changed out of all recognition from RWC’07 when almost everyone aped the South African “kick, chase and pressurise” tactics which won the Springboks the title, if only just. There is nothing wrong with the tactic if it works, as Saracens will attest, but you need a big budget to buy a giant, grizzled pack of enforcer forwards and Edinburgh don’t have one. With due deference to defence, let’s see some attacking intent from a club that used to be famous for it.

3 Be positive off the pitch
All too often Edinburgh are talked down and not just by the press. This is not a bad team, it is a decent team who are desperately low on confidence. The players need to know that the coach has faith in their ability and Duncan Hodge must talk them up at every opportunity. This is the team that has beaten Glasgow in three of their last four matches and got to the Challenge Cup final in 2015. The club whose front five forwards are the envy of the league and who boast several hugely talented young backs. Go to work fellas.

4 Find a STAND-0FF who isn’t Welsh
There are only two pro teams so Edinburgh can’t afford to have a key position filled by Jason Tovey who, were he Scottish, would have a stack of caps to his name. The answer lies in Blair Kinghorn who played all his youth rugby at ten before Alan Solomons moved him to 15. When the Under20’s needed him at ten last season, Kinghorn was terrible because he was out of practice. Scotland have cover for Stuart Hogg, in the form of Ruaridh Jackson, Sean Maitland and Tommy Seymour. They have precious little backup for Finn Russell at stand-off let alone competition.

5 Integrate the young players gradually
Solomons threw a host of them into a Challenge Cup match against London Irish last season and Edinburgh ended up on the wrong end of a 38-6 savaging. Hodge needs to get the youngsters involved by drip feeding them into an experienced match-day squad to help facilitate that daunting step from the fringes of the squad to the starting XV.

6 Stop signing ordinary foreigners
Edinburgh were inundated with too many players who were not bad, they just weren’t terribly good. The club is better off hiring a young Scot rather than a world-weary foreign mercenary unless they are going to make a genuine and lasting impact at the club. So Cornell du Preez good, Andries Strauss somewhat less so and let’s not even mention Carl Bezuidenhout and a host of others that slipped into Edinburgh before being ushered out the back door in the dead of night. It’s not about too many foreign players, it’s about too many ordinary players. Ignore the end-of-season sales and empty the bank when a genuine game changer becomes available.

7 Set up an independent board to run the club
It’s too obvious not to.

Not sure why he's listed Jackson at cover for 15 in a comment about lack of cover at 10.  Yes Jackson has covered FB, but his natural position is the place where Morrison is suggesting we need more cover.  I agree in that we could do with more cover at 10 & 15, but from what I have seen so far Kinghorn seems to be better at 15 (currently) than at 10, perhaps we should leave him be and bring through someone else at 10.

[funnyExiledScot]

Ah, the genius of Iain Morrison.

6 is my favourite - sign good players, not ordinary ones. Inspired advice. I hope Hodge is paying attention.

[BigGee]

Ah, the genius of Iain Morrison.

6 is my favourite - sign good players, not ordinary ones. Inspired advice. I hope Hodge is paying attention.

I know the Scotsman is not exactly the Washington Post, but how did Morrison become a journalist? He was not even a particularly good rugby player from what I remember!

[George Carlin]

Ah, the genius of Iain Morrison.

6 is my favourite - sign good players, not ordinary ones. Inspired advice. I hope Hodge is paying attention.

Correct, although you cannot deny the poetry in "ignore the end-of-season sales".

[RDW]

Also, point 4 - is he really saying that picking an inexperienced teenager at 10 over a seasoned professional who has performed well for Edinburgh will improve our performances on the pitch, because he's Scottish?

I agree completely the Kinghorn needs regular gametime but Tovey is our best 10 currently so he should be playing.

[funnyExiledScot]

Agreed. The paragraph is also headed "Stop Signing Ordinary Foreigners", talks about "world-weary foreign mercenaries" and that it's better to sign "a young Scot", but then says "it's not about too many foreign players".

I think we all know what he's trying to get at, it's just a shame that a journalist can't say it in a coherent fashion.

[RDW]

So what's he meaning by number 7, and why is it 'obvious'?

[George Carlin]

Be reasonable, FES. You cannot expect a journalist of all people to express themselves clearly in writing.

It looks like the kind of thing someone would write late at night with half a box of cabernet and a Glenmorangie chaser inside them.
George Hook would be proud of number 4.

[funnyExiledScot]

So what's he meaning by number 7, and why is it 'obvious'?

It's hard to crack the mind of a genius, indeed the Alan Turing of Scottish rugby journalism, but I think he's suggesting that independence from the SRU meddlers would set Edinburgh free from instructions from on high. For example instructions to play certain SQ players and in certain positions would, under an independent Edinburgh, not have to be followed. Not that this sits neatly with Point 6 of the Morrison Manifesto, because we would only have ordinary SQ players in the XV, rather than ordinary NSQ ones.

Reading between the lines I think he wrote this piece approximately 6 minutes before the printing deadline, and he ran out of time. At least that's how it reads.

[RDW]

That's the other contradiction - he says we need to use more young Scottish players but we need to drip feed them into a team of established pros, not just throw them in all together, but where do we get all these experienced pros from if we can't bring NSQ players in?

[BigGee]

That's the other contradiction - he says we need to use more young Scottish players but we need to drip feed them into a team of established pros, not just throw them in all together, but where do we get all these experienced pros from if we can't bring NSQ players in?

Was that not kind of the mantra we heard from Solly anyway and to be fair and honest, he did that reasonably well, probably the only legacy he does leave is that he has bloodied some promising young players.

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