England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

A bit early, but with squads due to be announced next week thought I'd start a thread to collate all winter tours news...

Firstly it appears the Bangladesh tour will go ahead despite security concerns. I for one am glad of this, gives England a chance to acclimatise to Asian conditions against an improving Bangladesh outfit (especially as England have no planned tour matches in India)

Secondly - it appears Haseeb Hameed will be getting the nod for Bangladesh according to Nick Hoult - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2016/08/29/england-plan-to-call-up-teenage-opener-haseeb-hameed-for-banglad/

Peoples initial thoughts on that?

[dyrewolfe]

3 for Woakes!

Pressure gets to Shakib and he cracks. Horrible shot and he edges behind for 10. Ban 216-9

Not long before England are batting.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Cracking tactical bowling by Ansari - worked a treat, lulling Bangladesh into false sense of security and prosperity....

[Gooseberry]

7 wickets for 40-odd runs. Tamim and Mominul must be fuming after all their good work.

Add in that the first wicket only went for a 1 run then this must be on for some kind of record in disparity of partnerships.
170 for the second wicket, next best is 10.

[Gooseberry]

Cracking tactical bowling by Ansari - worked a treat, lulling Bangladesh into false sense of security and prosperity....

Also hes smartly contributed not bowling again. Good cricketing brain.

[alfie]

So Eng did not win the toss.....and to me toss was the only reason why Eng just scraped past the finish line in Chittagong.
I would stick  my neck out now and put BD 60-40 favorite to win this one

Granted England have yet to bat ; but perhaps those odds require some adjustment ?

[VTR]

One of the worst collapses of all time?

[dyrewolfe]

Five-for for Moeen! Brilliant performance (19.5 - 5 - 57 - 5). He gets Kamrul for 0.

Brilliant diving catch by Root to wrap up the innings. BAN 220 all out.

Great back up from Woakes (9 - 3 - 30 - 3) and Stokes (11 - 5 - 13 - 2).

[alfie]

Moeen gets his 4th! Mehedi lbw for 1 and BAN are 213-8

Can he get a Michelle?

This is rapidly becoming a rout.

Yes he can ! Great catch by Root ...collapse complete.

[dyrewolfe]

Moeen gets his 4th! Mehedi lbw for 1 and BAN are 213-8

Can he get a Michelle?

This is rapidly becoming a rout.

Yes he can !   Great catch by Root ...collapse complete.

Bangladesh lost 9 wickets for 49 runs...as collapses go thats pretty epic!

Now if England can just see out the day without losing any wickets it will most definitely be our day.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Moeen gets his 4th! Mehedi lbw for 1 and BAN are 213-8

Can he get a Michelle?

This is rapidly becoming a rout.

Yes he can !   Great catch by Root ...collapse complete.

Bangladesh lost 9 wickets for 49 runs...as collapses go thats pretty epic!

England from the 90's would be proud

[Gooseberry]

One of the worst collapses of all time?

England managed 292/2 to 320 all out at home once.

[dyrewolfe]

Oof! Cook gets an absolute beauty from Mehedi. Beaten comprehensively but fortunately not out.

New ball spinning ferociously. We're not out of the woods yet...

[Mad for Chelsea]

Some collapse from Bangladesh, but some terrific bowling from England's trio, backed up with some excellent catching. Impressed by Bairstow's keeping on the tour so far, he's looked pretty tidy. That spell from Moeen shows a bit why I've been somwhat frustrated by his stagnation over the last year or two. He bowls at a good pace, gets plenty of revs on the ball, so if he can just cut out the loose balls he's a difficult prospect to play. In that spell he bowled one full toss right at the end, but other than that was landing everything pretty well, and when he first broke into the England team I rather hoped that's what he could eventually be doing on a regular basis.

Has to be said some pretty ordinary batting from Bangladesh, but in part due to England being able to build the pressure through good bowling combinations. Having lost the toss they'd be happy with 220 all out, and over the moon considering it was 171-1 at one stage. Now need to apply themselves with the bat, hopefully build a decent lead.

[dyrewolfe]

Moeen gets his 4th! Mehedi lbw for 1 and BAN are 213-8

Can he get a Michelle?

This is rapidly becoming a rout.

Yes he can !   Great catch by Root ...collapse complete.

Bangladesh lost 9 wickets for 49 runs...as collapses go thats pretty epic!

England from the 90's would be proud

You're not old enough to remember England in the 1990s

[VTR]

One of the worst collapses of all time?

England managed 292/2 to 320 all out at home once.

This be it:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/63578.html

That is probably worse really given the position it is from

[dyrewolfe]

Oh dear. Duckett gone for 7. England 10-1.

Remember we never make it easy for ourselves.

[Mad for Chelsea]

Well this is not a great start. Not all that happy about how long it took Bangladesh to review that TBH, but right decision in the end. England in a spot of early bother...

[dyrewolfe]

England in a spot of bother now. Cook gone for 14. ENG 24-2.

Bangladesh might not be much cop at batting but they have a dangerous bowling unit. England in a fight for survival for now.

That said Ballance is now at the crease. Don't have high hopes for him sticking around long.

[alfie]

Hmm. Both openers gone cheaply - again.

Two day Test ?

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

It's got to the point where you should automatically review everything Dharmasena gives

Three reversals today?!

[VTR]

No need to panic yet - Duckett is finding it tough and Cook's lack of cricket being exposed

Remember we bat all the way down to 11 with the Watford Wall being there!

[alfie]

Well this is not a great start. Not all that happy about how long it took Bangladesh to review that TBH, but right decision in the end. England in a spot of early bother...

Yes. I wondered about the time delay. Do the umpires count the seconds or just guesstimate ?
Surprised they were so hesitant as I actually thought it looked out in real time anyway.

[dyrewolfe]

Ballance gone for 9. ENG 42-3.

We're gonna need Stokes and Bairstow to rescue us...again.

Moeen coming out already? Nightwatchman? Are England hoping the umpire will call it a day for bad light soon?

[alfie]

Ballance gone now.

42/3. Normal service resumed...

[VTR]

Three down for next to nothing again, am not sure what Ballance v2 is doing in the team really - a good player but horribly out of form for about 2 years now

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I feel for the bowlers sometimes - poor blokes work hard all day, then have to come out to bat cos the top order is so bad atm

[Hammersmith harrier]

TMS are pretty adamant that Cook wasn't out.

[dyrewolfe]

Every ball seemingly a potential wicket taker at the moment, bar the odd loose one.

[Gooseberry]

On the positive side England have already had more double figure partnerships than Bangaldesh managed in their entire innings ( although they did have a triple figure one)

3 day match?

[dyrewolfe]

TMS are pretty adamant that Cook wasn't out.

They've changed their tune then.

Dan Norcross
BBC Test Match Special
He's right on the back foot, in front of middle and leg. He can't be more than a foot away from the stumps. With the new umpire's call rule, I'm giving that out.

And from the live text...

Out! He's gonna have to go. That looked, live, like it might be sneaking down the leg side. Actually it's hitting leg about halfway up. Cook shakes his head as he trudges off.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

TMS are pretty adamant that Cook wasn't out.

TMS are wrong - was absolutely plumb (and Cook knew it)

[Hammersmith harrier]

Just going by what Agnew said.

[dyrewolfe]

Rain stops play with ENG 50-3. Probably done for the day now.

[Hammersmith harrier]

TMS are pretty adamant that Cook wasn't out.

They've changed their tune then.

Dan Norcross
BBC Test Match Special
He's right on the back foot, in front of middle and leg. He can't be more than a foot away from the stumps. With the new umpire's call rule, I'm giving that out.

And from the live text...

Out! He's gonna have to go. That looked, live, like it might be sneaking down the leg side. Actually it's hitting leg about halfway up. Cook shakes his head as he trudges off.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Root's 15* is the third highest innings today out of 16 players who have batted.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Ballance needs to be dropped

Buttler may not be the solution long term - but at very least he could come in and hit a quick 30 which is pretty much triple what Ballance is ever going to get at the moment

[KO-KING]

Duckett
Balance
Mahmadullah
Ansari
Rashid
Hom
Finn
Shaiful
Rabbi

Series Passenger XI filling up nicely

[dyrewolfe]

TMS are pretty adamant that Cook wasn't out.

They've changed their tune then.

Dan Norcross
BBC Test Match Special
He's right on the back foot, in front of middle and leg. He can't be more than a foot away from the stumps. With the new umpire's call rule, I'm giving that out.

And from the live text...

Out! He's gonna have to go. That looked, live, like it might be sneaking down the leg side. Actually it's hitting leg about halfway up. Cook shakes his head as he trudges off.

We can all be selective...

[alfie]

50/3 what will tomorrow bring ?

Hard to see England getting a substantial lead - from here they'd probably settle for parity - but if a couple of players get set who knows ? Fancy this match may twist and turn like the first one...

I admire Olly's confidence in Buttler's ability to "hit a quick 30" but as he didn't often achieve that at seven or eight I am not so sure he would be likely to do so at four ; though he could not , in truth , do much less than Ballance. Think Hameed has first option else I cannot see why they brought him...

Wonder how long before someone calls for KP to return

[KO-KING]

Compare that to

Cook (c)
Tamim
Mominul
Root
Bairstow
Mushfiq
Shakib
Stokes
Moeen
Woakes
Mehedi
Broad

That team beats India

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Compare that to

Cook (c)
Tamim
Mominul
Root
Bairstow
Mushfiq
Shakib
Stokes
Moeen
Woakes
Mehedi
Broad

That team beats India

I'd hope so - with the extra player as well!

[CaledonianCraig]

Hi all. Been very busy over the last few weeks moving house.

Thoughts on the state of play? England still trail by 170 but if a couple of their batsmen can make decent 50s then parity looks assured. If England can even get the slenderest of first innings advantage of say 10 to 20 runs that would be a big psychological boost. If I were to have a bet right now I'd still back England to win.

As for England selections you do have to ask why they are persevering with Ballance. Also Moeen has proven that more often than not he is the main man as far as England's spinners go. Rashid, who I had hopes for a year or so ago, just has not delivered enough when given the chance. Duckett should be given more time and they should look to replace Ballance ASAP.

[guildfordbat]

Like others here, the (only) issue for me with Cook's dismissal was the time it took to ask for the review.

Anyway, can't help feeling we're going to be in trouble if the first Test in India coincides with Moeen and Stokes having their rotated rest! They both bowled very well, Moeen deserved his fivefer while Stokes deserved more than his couple. Some credit though to Woakes - he cashed in on their good work but doing that successfully is an important part of the game.

Meanwhile, our problems with the bat up top continue. I would guess most of the posts are going to revolve around Ballance. That's fully understandable but I'm also concerned about Duckett - his dismissal was thoughtless - and the lack of replacements. Our lower order have done a great job in keeping us out of jail but the time is surely overdue for them to fold for 30 rather than keep getting 150+.

[guildfordbat]

Hi Craig - just seen your post. I share your concerns about Ballance. However, who do you replace him with? Buttler? Hmmm, maybe you take a chance but he hasn't played any red ball cricket for ages. Hameed? Well, maybe but doesn't he have to open? Move Duckett down to 4? Maybe but he looks out of sorts anywhere atm.

[CaledonianCraig]

Hi Craig - just seen your post. I share your concerns about Ballance. However, who do you replace him with? Buttler? Hmmm, maybe you take a chance but he hasn't played any red ball cricket for ages. Hameed? Well, maybe but doesn't he have to open? Move Duckett down to 4? Maybe but he looks out of sorts anywhere atm.

Anyone whose confidence is less shot to threads. As that old saying goes - he is a dead man walking. Try Hameed or another of the younger players being touted. I'd stick with Duckett opening just now - we can't be too judgemental especially if you consider he has probably scored a similar amount of runs to Cook in Bangladesh in tricky conditions.

[guildfordbat]

Craig - yeah, I'm probably not giving Duckett enough / any credit for his ''warm up'' runs. However, he seems horribly out of sorts in his one and a half Tests so far.

[dyrewolfe]

Match definitely in the Ballance. Lets hope England don't manage to Duckett up.


I'll get me coat...

[Gooseberry]

If this were the penultimate game of the tour Id see the argument for Buttler. But theres a long series ahead against India, do we consider Buttler as a legitimate contender for a long term development spot through that series at the expense of any other candidate?

Personally I dont hold great confidence in Hameed or see him as ready yet, but something does have to give in this top 4. The only other solutions available are further bumping up the all rounders who many felt were getting over promoted in the first place (Stokes at 6). Ali has already been tried as an opener, lets not do that to him again now his bowlings working again.

Any of the options is a bit of a punt really. But the argument " it cant get any worse " possibly holds some water, although maybe Hales wasnt that bad after all.

Averages this year in the top 4 :
Root 52
Cook 41
Hales 28
Vince 19
Compton 16
Duckett 12
Ballance 6

Last year they tried Trott, Ali and Lyth in the top 4, and even Buttler opened the batting once (scoring 4).

So going back to the point that something has to change..it has and has done many times in the last 2 years. Except the ability of anyone other than Cook and Root to justify a place there.

[msp83]

Well, another atrocious collapse from Bangladesh, and like in the first game, that is going to be their undoing here. It was pretty pathetic, some of the batting after Tamim and Mominul, was downright pathetic. And a side that picks Shuvagata hom to play a test match deserves every bit of that atrociousness. The moment they picked him, they started with 10 players, the guy is that much rubbish! Considering they had the likes of Nassir Hossain and Mosaddek Hossain not even making the squad!
Anyways, England top order showing yet again that as a collective they can't bat for toffee! But the thing is that they have proper batsmen coming in at up to 10 in the batting order. And 1 of the 3 out is not named Joseph Edward! So long as he's there, England can consider themselves in safe hands. And then there are the form men of the year, Ali, Bairstow and Stokes. So Bangladesh set to concede a significant lead, and then give up and collapse, in good old fashion.......

[msp83]

That said, wha a fine innings from Tamim Iqbal. He does love batting against England, some of his best performances have come against them, home and away. While the effort in the first test was a more measured, labored innings, this was Tamim in a freewheeling mode. Didn't follow all of it, but when I could, he was batting as well as he ever did. And Mominul, after a lul in the first test, yet again showed why he's their best test batsman.

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