England in Bangladesh and India - The Winter Tours thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

A bit early, but with squads due to be announced next week thought I'd start a thread to collate all winter tours news...

Firstly it appears the Bangladesh tour will go ahead despite security concerns. I for one am glad of this, gives England a chance to acclimatise to Asian conditions against an improving Bangladesh outfit (especially as England have no planned tour matches in India)

Secondly - it appears Haseeb Hameed will be getting the nod for Bangladesh according to Nick Hoult - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2016/08/29/england-plan-to-call-up-teenage-opener-haseeb-hameed-for-banglad/

Peoples initial thoughts on that?

[Gooseberry]

If this were the penultimate game of the tour Id see the argument for Buttler. But theres a long series ahead against India, do we consider Buttler as a legitimate contender for a long term development spot through that series at the expense of any other candidate?

Personally I dont hold great confidence in Hameed or see him as ready yet, but something does have to give in this top 4. The only other solutions available are further bumping up the all rounders who many felt were getting over promoted in the first place (Stokes at 6). Ali has already been tried as an opener, lets not do that to him again now his bowlings working again.

Any of the options is a bit of a punt really. But the argument " it cant get any worse " possibly holds some water, although maybe Hales wasnt that bad after all.

Averages this year in the top 4 :
Root 52
Cook 41
Hales 28
Vince 19
Compton 16
Duckett 12
Ballance 6

Last year they tried Trott, Ali and Lyth in the top 4, and even Buttler opened the batting once (scoring 4).

So going back to the point that something has to change..it has and has done many times in the last 2 years. Except the ability of anyone other than Cook and Root to justify a place there.

....and continuing this back another year we also tried Robson (30) , Bell (34), Carberry (21) and KP (6).

And err Gary Ballance who averaged 70 over the year (72 against India) .  Whats he up to these days?

[KO-KING]

Compare that to

Cook (c)
Tamim
Mominul
Root
Bairstow
Mushfiq
Shakib
Stokes
Moeen
Woakes
Mehedi
Broad

That team beats India

I'd hope so - with the extra player as well!

Yh hahaha drop woakes

[KO-KING]

Even though neither done anything significant in the series, root and mominul look a class apart from the rest, they score runs with ease, shame mominul doesn't get more test cricket

I reckon England still in driving seat, far too many players not to overhaul 220,especially with root still in, let's be honest here bangladesh got rid of cook and 2 nightwatchmens

[msp83]

Mominul didn't make it into a ton this time, but it was a very fine innings from him today.......

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Will need a minor miracle for England to win this one now - batting again failing and middle/lower order not able to drag them out of it this time

[alfie]

Will need a minor miracle for England to win this one now - batting again failing and middle/lower order not able to drag them out of it this time

Only a minor one though Olly...they're struggling ; but if Woakes and Rashid can get them a bit closer there is still a chance to roll Bangladesh cheaply and set up a chaseable target...

To be honest I'm not too surprised at this score after what I saw yesterday ; have only just got in from my own game so haven't seen today's play but imagine batting hasn't been easy against the spin ?
Question is whether England's spinners can play their part in the second innings. Really won't want to be chasing over 200 on day three/four.

[msp83]

Well, England's batting depth, and Bangladesh combining at last to put the visiters back on track. Rashid and Woakes in a crucial partnership, and with the lead already under 40, think the bus has come and gone for Bangladesh. They've already put on 41.......

[alfie]

Well, England's batting depth, and Bangladesh combining at last to put the visiters back on track. Rashid and Woakes in a crucial partnership, and with the lead already under 40, think the bus has come and gone for Bangladesh. They've already put on 41.......

Not sure the bus has gone , exactly , msp ...

Any lead could be important. With England batting last Bangladesh will still feel fairly confident as you'd think it won't get any easier to bat on this.
This partnership (best of the innings , now ) is indeed a crucial one ; has brought England at least within reach. But they won't want to let Tamim get off to a flier again...

[msp83]

And Mushfiqur has lost it, he's bowling the rubbish passenger Hom and seamer Rabbi together!! Shakib, Mehedi and Taijul are his best bets.

[alfie]

200 up.

I am not sure why Bangladesh have resorted to the use of their seamer ? Why not stick to what was working ? They have about eight spin bowlers...

We have pointed before to England's batting depth and it certainly seems to be paying off here.

[alfie]

England have now batted longer than Bangladesh , albeit for 15 runs less at present ; Tamim's remarkable first innings really does look the big performance of the match so far...but he may need to do it again for his team...

[alfie]

Bangladesh losing the plot here ...

Shabbir (!) now bowling (mostly rubbish) and scores are level...

[alfie]

Mehedi back on...not before time !

Baffling tactics from Bangladesh. England take a lead that looked impossible an hour or so ago...have to praise the resolution and common sense batting of these two players

[CaledonianCraig]

Woakes gets out of jail - caught pulling a full toss but no-ball ruled.

[alfie]

Suppose they had to rest Mehedi at some point , in fairness. But having him and Shakib off together wasn't smart.

Woakes caught off a full toss ...but a no ball negates it !

Personally I think spinners should be allowed to bowl full tosses anyway , even high ones : but that is the new rule... Lucky for England.

[CaledonianCraig]

You feel Bangladesh have let their golden opportunity slip through their fingers. Having England 144 for 8 they were set for taking a big first innings lead but now they face the prospect of a deficit of perhaps 20+.

[alfie]

New ball only five overs away and I suspect that might present Woakes and Rashid with some more challenges ( perversely , from the spinners !) so perhaps they'll be looking to get after these next few overs - especially Sabbir's pies...

Surely cannot hope to get a significant lead (can they ?) but being in front at all is a huge morale lift .

[alfie]

New ball...and the break at last !

Woakes well caught in the leg trap - six for Mehedi but that 99 run partnership has turned this game around .

Lead of 23 , not likely to be much more ; but at least the game is back to evens...

[CaledonianCraig]

England bowled out for 244 and they take a lead of 24 into the second innings. Advantage England.

[alfie]

Finn didn't hold them up long

New ball was a different story...

Lead of 24 is nothing ...but a hell of a lot better than trailing by fifty or whatever.

Match continues to be very tight.

[msp83]

So a 99 run 9th wicket partnership. Think that has seeled it for England. Their top order might collapse again, they will have to bat last on this track. But I don't see Bangladesh putting up something that would be challenging enough for a lineup that bats to 10, and with a number 11 who so easily can be a number 10 for any other test side. They don't really have a number 11, and they don't even have a number 9 in their side. A top 7 and then 3 number 8s, covering up for whatever weakness that is there in the top 7.......
Some real riches these. Don't think India would have it any easy, even at home.......

[KO-KING]

Mushfiq is cringworthy as a captain

Great work from England

Bangladesh need to set 250 to have a chance

[CaledonianCraig]

Finn didn't hold them up long

New ball was a different story...

Lead of 24 is nothing ...but a hell of a lot better than trailing by fifty or whatever.

Match continues to be very tight.

As was being indicated when England were looking set to conceded a lead after the first innings ANY lead would be massive such is the nature of this pitch. England, therefore, with a lead of 24 not only lays a massive psychological blow to Bangladesh but then the experience of England's players take over. England are now favourites for this - no doubt.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Mushfiq is cringworthy as a captain

Great work from England

Bangladesh need to set 250 to have a chance

Anything over 200 will be difficult to chase last innings for England - anything below 150 they're in the driving seat

Woakes is having himself a fine game

[alfie]

Finn didn't hold them up long

New ball was a different story...

Lead of 24 is nothing ...but a hell of a lot better than trailing by fifty or whatever.

Match continues to be very tight.

As was being indicated when England were looking set to conceded a lead after the first innings ANY lead would be massive such is the nature of this pitch. England, therefore, with a lead of 24 not only lays a massive psychological blow to Bangladesh but then the experience of England's players take over. England are now favourites for this - no doubt.

Well yes. I would have England favorites - but more because they continue to demonstrate their ability to fight back from tough situations than from any great advantage in runs : twenty four hardly negates the handicap of batting last.

I do not think Bangladesh are out of it though. How the early part of their innings goes in this last session may be decisive... Cook will want more from his bowlers than on the first morning.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Absolutely no idea why Finn is opening the bowling

[CaledonianCraig]

Finn didn't hold them up long

New ball was a different story...

Lead of 24 is nothing ...but a hell of a lot better than trailing by fifty or whatever.

Match continues to be very tight.

As was being indicated when England were looking set to conceded a lead after the first innings ANY lead would be massive such is the nature of this pitch. England, therefore, with a lead of 24 not only lays a massive psychological blow to Bangladesh but then the experience of England's players take over. England are now favourites for this - no doubt.

Well yes.  I would have England favorites - but more because they continue to demonstrate their ability to fight back from tough situations than from any great advantage in runs : twenty four hardly negates the handicap of batting last.

I do not think Bangladesh are out of it though.  How the early part of their innings goes in this last session may be decisive...  Cook will want more from his bowlers than on the first morning.

I agree with most of that. England have the know how - Bangladesh don't. Sure Bangladesh aren't out of this but if you gave me money to bet just now it would be on England.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Absolutely no idea why Finn is opening the bowling

Legside rubbish

[dyrewolfe]

England doing their best to throw this one away. Bangladesh openers hitting our bowlers all over the place.

50 partnership in under 10 overs. WTF are we doing out there?

[jimbohammers]

Why is Ansari on to bowl this early? Gifting runs here

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Why is Ansari on to bowl this early? Gifting runs here

Should've been opening with two spinners (whoever they were). It's like Cook hasn't seen what's worked all tour....(ie. Open with spin, reverse with quicks later)

[dyrewolfe]

Well that changed in a hurry. Just like that Bangladesh lose two wickets in the space of a few balls.

Ansari gets Tamim for 40 (caught Cook) and Stokes does for Mominul for 1 (caught Cook).

And just like that its very much game on again with the hosts now 66-2.

[alfie]

Why is Ansari on to bowl this early? Gifting runs here

Should've been opening with two spinners (whoever they were). It's like Cook hasn't seen what's worked all tour....(ie. Open with spin, reverse with quicks later)

If he had , say Swann and Panesar , yes. But with the bowlers at his disposal , one spinner at a time is arguably too many ...

Actually I am fine with Ali opening - though it didn't work this time. Think it is far from easy to get the attack right for England in these conditions as apart from Stokes none of them can really be trusted to keep things quiet - even he has conceded a few boundaries here tonight.
Next two/three wickets the key now...

[alfie]

Bangladesh getting back on top as we near end of day...

After the two quick wickets I thought England might be in business ; but Mahmadullah has taken it away from them with his aggression . Only two down still and over 100 ahead and it looks as if England may be set a stiff fourth innings target...will want to get a lot more from the top order to get a result .

[dyrewolfe]

England letting it slip again.

Bangladesh back up to around 5 an over and looking far too comfortable. Lead up to 111 with 8 wickets in hand.

If England do have to chase around 250 I think they will struggle (even more than they did in the first innings).

[alfie]

Just a possibility that the pitch is a fraction easier to bat on as the day goes on ...so it might not be a minefield late tomorrow.
But if England have to chase 250 I think they will struggle to get it.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Mahmudullah just played one of the worst shots I've ever seen - suppose you can't take the dirty slog out of a dirty slogger though

A good bounce back from Ansari so far

[dyrewolfe]

Ansari gets his second with the last ball of the day...some late consolation for England as Mahmudullah is bowled for 47 (gave his wicket away with a horrible slog though).

Still leaves Bangladesh on 152-3 with some batting to come. England still looking at having to chase 200+ at some point tomorrow.

As if England didn't have enough problems, Joe Root appears to be out of action with a stomach bug.

[alfie]

Rush of blood from Mahmadullah has given England a lift to finish the day...
At 128 ahead and seven wickets left I reckon Bangladesh are still ahead in the game ; whether they are steady enough this time to turn this position into a win remains in question.
The problem for England is they seem to have been playing catch-up throughout this match : can they keep digging themselves out of poor positions ? I'd back them to get , say , 200 - though maybe not without a bit of stress (especially for those of us watching ) : but if the lead stretches much beyond that it may prove decisive.
Last seven wickets (8 , in fact ) fell for 29 on day one. An encore would be nice...

[msp83]

Mahmudullah just gave it away. A collapse is not too far away from Bangladesh anyways, but he had not played that rubbish shot and gave his wicket away, England would have been a lot more concerned coming into the morning. But like in the first test, with the Mushfiqur wicket that turned it around for England, think Bangladesh and this time through Mahmudullah, has given them that opening yet again.
Unless Shakib's aggression somehow comes off tomorrow, I don't see Bangladesh going beyond 200 in this innings from now on. A chase above 150 can be a bit of a task, particularly if Root isn't well. But the England lower order will eventually see them through.......

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Root has a stomach bug and is unlikely to bat tomorrow. Eek

[KO-KING]

Anything over 200 will be difficult to chase last innings for England - anything below 150 they're in the driving seat

Woakes is having himself a fine game

Always liked woakes, seems to be coming of age.

I dont think the pitch is that bad, just lot of poor batting unlike Chittagong, think 230ish lead will be par.

Didn't see englands start this morning, but most just gave their wickets away.

---

This match is evenly poised I would say, last wicket pushed it back englands way in my opinion...expecting a collapse.

mahmadullah has all the shots in the book, but gives it away so easily.

Rahims tactics were awful...again...why is he captain.

Why pick Rabbi and Hom, Hom is a part time batsmen and bowler, Rabbi averages over 40 in first class...He can't perform there why would you pick him in the test team when others like Al Amin average 27 in FC and 24 and 15 in ODIs and t20s.

As for Englands Bowling, good tactics by Cook, but finn let him down a bit, only 1 bouncer...guy tries to be like broad, when he should be way more aggressive.

Tamim looked dangerous as always, read an article on cricinfo where it said he averages mid 50's since start of 2015, him and Kayes (also 50 average since 2015) seem to have upped their game in recent times...Tamims still what 27?

With the bowl reversing and moeen, I expect england to restrict Bangladesh under a lead of 200...

England win by 5 Wickets...

[KO-KING]

Root has a stomach bug and is unlikely to bat tomorrow. Eek

100% he will bat, reckon its mind games...he might come down the order a bit, but can't be that bad of a stomach bug, Sabbir played through one first test

[CaledonianCraig]

Anything over 200 will be difficult to chase last innings for England - anything below 150 they're in the driving seat

Woakes is having himself a fine game

Always liked woakes, seems to be coming of age.

I dont think the pitch is that bad, just lot of poor batting unlike Chittagong, think 230ish lead will be par.

Didn't see englands start this morning, but most just gave their wickets away.

---

This match is evenly poised I would say, last wicket pushed it back englands way in my opinion...expecting a collapse.

mahmadullah has all the shots in the book, but gives it away so easily.

Rahims tactics were awful...again...why is he captain.

Why pick Rabbi and Hom, Hom is a part time batsmen and bowler, Rabbi averages over 40 in first class...He can't perform there why would you pick him in the test team when others like Al Amin average 27 in FC and 24 and 15 in ODIs and t20s.

As for Englands Bowling, good tactics by Cook, but finn let him down a bit, only 1 bouncer...guy tries to be like broad, when he should be way more aggressive.

Tamim looked dangerous as always, read an article on cricinfo where it said he averages mid 50's since start of 2015, him and Kayes (also 50 average since 2015) seem to have upped their game in recent times...Tamims still what 27?

With the bowl reversing and moeen, I expect england to restrict Bangladesh under a lead of 200...

England win by 5 Wickets...

This is much how I see it going as well.

[msp83]

Agree with King, Mushfiqur is godawful as skipper. Rather than attacking Rashid and Woakes with Mehedi, Shakib and Taijul, he deployed Rabbi, and atrocious Hom! And yes, what is happened to Al Amin? Looked a decent prospect. Rabbi did bowl above 130 KPH regularly, but there doesn't seem to be much in him as a seamer. Had Mustafizur been fit, things could have become real ugly for England. After Mashrafe who is no longer fit enough to play test cricket, he's the only seamer worth talking about as far as Bangladesh is concerned, and the guy is not just that, he's super exciting! And it is such a pity he got injured before the series. But till he comes back, Al Amin or even Robiul could have been considered.
And if they are considering Hom, they could have arranged a passport for Boycott's nanny!! Would have batted, bowled and fielded better!

[guildfordbat]

A decent comeback in Bangladesh's second innings from Ansari. Looking as if he might edge ahead of Rashid in the pecking order - at least with the ball; Rashid made important runs earlier although I didn't see that.

By all accounts, England's fielders got to Mahmadullah at the end and he certainly lost it with a horrible shot. I've a touch of understanding and sympathy though for the batsman if he was trying to hit Ansari to the rope and give England's debutant a bad night as he fretted over his last ball. That might have been adventurous but it wouldn't have been a ridiculous idea and is the way Mahmudullah plays. Ruined though in the reckless execution.

Once more, hard to call the current state of the match. If I had Craig's money for a bet, it would go on England. However, that's mainly because of the proven failings of Bangladesh's late middle order and tail than any great faith in this England XI.

[KO-KING]

Agree with King, Mushfiqur is godawful as skipper. Rather than attacking Rashid and Woakes with Mehedi, Shakib and Taijul, he deployed Rabbi, and atrocious Hom! And yes, what is happened to Al Amin? Looked a decent prospect. Rabbi did bowl above 130 KPH regularly, but there doesn't seem to be much in him as a seamer. Had Mustafizur been fit, things could have become real ugly for England. After Mashrafe who is no longer fit enough to play test cricket, he's the only seamer worth talking about as far as Bangladesh is concerned, and the guy is not just that, he's super exciting! And it is such a pity he got injured before the series. But till he comes back, Al Amin or even Robiul could have been considered.
And if they are considering Hom, they could have arranged a passport for Boycott's nanny!! Would have batted, bowled and fielded better!

Taskin is also a big prospect, Al amin is a weird one, saw him few years ago and thought this guy is awful with his action, but he's developed well can bowl line and length and seam it, tall at about 6 3, and can bowl cutters and against Australia in wt20 He was getting it over 140.. Baffling he isn't in the team, had some disciplinary issues in world cup 15...but that can't be it, saw Walsh s interview, basically said rabbi bowled better in nets... He seems a bit clueless to be honest from his interviews, comes across as hes never seen bangladesh play before.. That he needs discovering who's got the basics

I reckon mushfiqur is holding bd back as a captain.

And what did everyone think about sabbir noon wicket vs woakes... Taylor summed it up for me awful cricket all round

[CaledonianCraig]

It is odd as England have a mixed sort of team at the moment. Players in hot form and beginning to tear up record books such as Root and Bairstow supported well at times by Cook, Stokes and Woakes with Ali chipping in from time to time. However, the top of the batting line-up is still uncertain with questions hanging over finding a suitable partner for Cook, finding a reliable replacement for Ballance and a spinner who can settle into line and length, be miserly and get wickets. In other words a lot of promise but also cracks here and there.

[msp83]

Gosh, seems New Zealand have been closely following the England Bangladesh series and got inspired by Bangladesh. They just enacted their own version of Collapso! Losing 8-16 to be bowled out for 79 to hand India a 190 run win!

[KO-KING]

It is odd as England have a mixed sort of team at the moment. Players in hot form and beginning to tear up record books such as Root and Bairstow supported well at times by Cook, Stokes and Woakes with Ali chipping in from time to time. However, the top of the batting line-up is still uncertain with questions hanging over finding a suitable partner for Cook, finding a reliable replacement for Ballance and a spinner who can settle into line and length, be miserly and get wickets. In other words a lot of promise but also cracks here and there.

Ducket at 4, Drop Root, Put in Haseeb.

Fact is Bell probably do better than them but that wont be happening.

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