Warren Gatland announced as Lions coach

First topic message reminder :

Apparently, according to Ian McGeechan anyway Gatland has been given the job again.

Are you a Wales fan by any chance miaow?

'If Wales are to beat NZ, they'll obviously have to box clever, and one of the ways of doing that is to pick their battles.'

And Gatland took a big risk on playing a recovering Warburton ahead of players in better form and fitness. But like you said he thought he could play himself to form in the tests; not something you get away with often. Why does no one rate AWJ or POC as capable captains here?

And come off it by the way in terms of me celebrating an injury. Talk about putting words in peoples mouths.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Are you a Wales fan by any chance miaow?

The irony is, I was talking of slips of the tongue in the paragraph before. Just as I was talking about Wales, where the slip- of the finger in this case- came from. Nothing sinister, don't worry, don't get too carried away. I'm not suggesting the team that won the third Test was Wales, rather than the Lions.

No 7&1/2 wrote:And come off it by the way in terms of me celebrating an injury. Talk about putting words in peoples mouths.

If you've read what I've actually taken a lot of time to lay out for you, then you're not bothering to take a step back and query your own viewpoint. As I said, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, but dear me, understand that the words you use have connotations, and you're not going to get away with calling an injury "fortunate" without the added associations of relief and joy- celebration- that come in and of the thing (injury) itself.

You cannot be fundamental about this, and declare that "oh, well, now I've been called out on it, I'm going to pretend my careless, or even worse intentionally inflammatory, use of language was actually just referring to the one thing, the fortune of the team, rather than the added association that most people would also make, and most people would be offended by". You don't get to edit the reaction your language has, so be more careful with the way you use it. That's the kind version. The more cynical version would be to say stop backtracking, and just accept that your petty attempt to wind up Welsh posters who love a partisan back and forth argument has been called out for what it is. I don't know which you are, but as I said, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for now, even if I don't value your opinion on rugby.

So you're not then? Fair enough, just like to know where people are coming from when they jump at peoples throats!

miaow wrote:The more cynical version would be to say stop backtracking, and just accept that your petty attempt to wind up Welsh posters who love a partisan back and forth argument has been called out for what it is. I don't know which you are, but as I said, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for now, even if I don't value your opinion on rugby.

I will go with this version. I have had these types of dealings with him before, where he keeps an argument going and going by keeping on and asking questions about the debate you would rather move on from. He is like a kid that keeps asking, but why ? Even though you can answer him over and over.

Not even 9 months away yet and still there's already 5 pages of (mostly) petty sshite.

Roll on the squad announcement.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Roll on the squad announcement.

That will be interesting.

I cannot decide if people will complain if either they have not enough or too many players from their country picked anymore.

LordDowlais wrote:

miaow wrote:The more cynical version would be to say stop backtracking, and just accept that your petty attempt to wind up Welsh posters who love a partisan back and forth argument has been called out for what it is. I don't know which you are, but as I said, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for now, even if I don't value your opinion on rugby.

I will go with this version. I have had these types of dealings with him before, where he keeps an argument going and going by keeping on and asking questions about the debate you would rather move on from. He is like a kid that keeps asking, but why ? Even though you can answer him over and over.

You never answer adn get drawn off point too easily. I make a statement, you ask for clarification, ignore it, then go down a track of ignoring any debate and claim bias.

LordDowlais wrote:

miaow wrote:The more cynical version would be to say stop backtracking, and just accept that your petty attempt to wind up Welsh posters who love a partisan back and forth argument has been called out for what it is. I don't know which you are, but as I said, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for now, even if I don't value your opinion on rugby.

I will go with this version. I have had these types of dealings with him before, where he keeps an argument going and going by keeping on and asking questions about the debate you would rather move on from. He is like a kid that keeps asking, but why ? Even though you can answer him over and over.

Yep, no one should challenge Lord Bluster's bluster, or he'll start the threats again

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Not even 9 months away yet and still there's already 5 pages of (mostly) petty sshite.

Roll on the squad announcement.

When Lions tours come around I sometimes wish I Scottish - though I guess you'll argue about which token players of yours should be picked ?

miaow wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Are you a Wales fan by any chance miaow?

The irony is, I was talking of slips of the tongue in the paragraph before. Just as I was talking about Wales, where the slip- of the finger in this case- came from. Nothing sinister, don't worry, don't get too carried away. I'm not suggesting the team that won the third Test was Wales, rather than the Lions.

No 7&1/2 wrote:And come off it by the way in terms of me celebrating an injury. Talk about putting words in peoples mouths.

If you've read what I've actually taken a lot of time to lay out for you, then you're not bothering to take a step back and query your own viewpoint. As I said, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, but dear me, understand that the words you use have connotations, and you're not going to get away with calling an injury "fortunate" without the added associations of relief and joy- celebration- that come in and of the thing (injury) itself.

You cannot be fundamental about this, and declare that "oh, well, now I've been called out on it, I'm going to pretend my careless, or even worse intentionally inflammatory, use of language was actually just referring to the one thing, the fortune of the team, rather than the added association that most people would also make, and most people would be offended by". You don't get to edit the reaction your language has, so be more careful with the way you use it. That's the kind version. The more cynical version would be to say stop backtracking, and just accept that your petty attempt to wind up Welsh posters who love a partisan back and forth argument has been called out for what it is. I don't know which you are, but as I said, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for now, even if I don't value your opinion on rugby.

Just re read this and no it's not an attempt to wind up. I thought Warburton was below par picked on reputation and would play despite not deserving to.

munkian wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Not even 9 months away yet and still there's already 5 pages of (mostly) petty sshite.

Roll on the squad announcement.

When Lions tours come around  I sometimes wish I  Scottish - though I guess you'll argue about which token players of yours should be picked ?

Robson will be there.

Would have liked Townsend there too but it'll be his first tour in charge of Scotland so no chance.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

munkian wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Not even 9 months away yet and still there's already 5 pages of (mostly) petty sshite.

Roll on the squad announcement.

When Lions tours come around  I sometimes wish I  Scottish - though I guess you'll argue about which token players of yours should be picked ?

Robson will be there.

Would have liked Townsend there too but it'll be his first tour in charge of Scotland so no chance.

Hogg will be there carrying the kicking tee for Halfpenny, apart from a brief cameo as the left boot of Warburton

I really don't understand all of this bickering.

All Wazza Fartface needs to do is select:

15 Hogg
14 North
13 Joseph
12 Henshaw
11 Watson
10 Farrell
09 Webb

08 Vunipola
07 Hardie
06 Itoje
05 J Gray
04 Kruis
03 Cole
02 Harley
01 Vunipola

Robert remains your mother's brother.

Riskysports wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

munkian wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Not even 9 months away yet and still there's already 5 pages of (mostly) petty sshite.

Roll on the squad announcement.

When Lions tours come around  I sometimes wish I  Scottish - though I guess you'll argue about which token players of yours should be picked ?

Robson will be there.

Would have liked Townsend there too but it'll be his first tour in charge of Scotland so no chance.

Hogg will be there carrying the kicking tee for Halfpenny, apart from a brief cameo as the left boot of Warburton

All joking aside, you can make a pretty decent case for a few Scots this time around. Obviously plenty rugby to be played between now and the squad being picked, but I do think we'll have a small contingent in the initial squad. Once the squad is picked, they are all Lions.

George Carlin wrote:I really don't understand all of this bickering.

All Wazza Fartface needs to do is select:

15 Hogg
14 North
13 Joseph
12 Henshaw
11 Watson
10 Farrell
09 Webb

08 Vunipola
07 Hardie
06 Itoje
05 J Gray
04 Kruis
03 Cole
02 Harley
01 Vunipola

Robert remains your mother's brother.

Nice. Here's the dirt track XV to thrash the Maori:

1.McGrath 2.George 3.Nel 4.AWJ 5.Launchbury 6.Henderson 7.Warburton 8.Faletau 9.Davies 10.Biggar 11.Seymour 12.Roberts 13.Tuilagi 14.Amos 15.Williams

I'm sick of the Lions already, courtesy of this thread. The coach has just been announced and we've already had several pages comprising mostly ad hominem attacks by one poster on another, complete with mind reading of other people's intent based on sentences in their posts.

And we've got another 10 months of this to go. Do we really want to be at each other's throats all the time?

A simple ground rule for getting along would be this: give people the benefit of the doubt and try to take what they've said in the spirit of being a passionate rugby fan wanting the best outcome for the Lions, or worrying about the impact it might have on players.

Inevitably, a lot of the comment will be directed at Gatland and the players he favours, who, given he's the Welsh coach, were overwhelmingly Welsh. But not everything is an anti-Welsh conspiracy.

It's perfectly reasonable to express concerns over Gatland's approach (because it's been very consistent over the years) and over how it worked in 2013. Compared to New Zealand in 2017, Australia in 2013 was a positively benign environment and we still only just won the series.

We would have lost the first test but for a loose bit of turf that spoiled Beale's 80th minute kick. The Lions were not remotely convincing in that test... but Gatland persisted and lost the second test. The final test had a comfortable scoreline, but it took a broader change of personnel - some of it enforced - to get there.

Warburton is a fine player when fit and in form. So, albeit across a narrower skill set, is Lydiate. Neither looked fit or in form to me during the tour.

Actually, I think Gatland adopted what is probably the only viable approach to building a Lions squad in the professional era, by taking essentially the core of one team plus the best of other players. What I disagreed with then and still disagree with now was the balance of how he chose test players from that squad. Actual performances on tour didn't seem to count for much in terms of winning a test place.

Looking at the squad for the third test, it had a higher concentration of Welsh players in the starting XV than the previous two tests, but with a very English bench. Looking at the pattern of scoring, in the first two tests Australia came back towards the end, but in the third test the Lions dominated the last quarter - so there may be something in the "dead on their feet" theory, or it may be that having a group of players who knew each other join the fray enabled them to keep their shape in a way that hadn't been possible in the other tests.

Anyway. The time to argue is when we've seen some NH international action this season, and when we see the actual selections. The home nations are all in quite different places from where they were in 2013, and we will have to see if that makes a difference to Gatland's selection approach.

Poorfour wrote:
A simple ground rule for getting along would be this: give people the benefit of the doubt and try to take what they've said in the spirit of being a passionate rugby fan wanting the best outcome for the Lions

When a significant portion of the posters on here are actively stating they deem to Lions to be a hindrance to their national sides' chances, and would like to get rid of it, or see their countries' players not be selected for it, then I think you're asking for too much. The ire that surrounds the Lions is as political as ever, and you cannot sweep that under the carpet. The fact that it comes to a head with petty "too man X players, not enough Y players" is symbolic of this. I'd suggest if you don't want to put up with this, you're probably best dealing with rugby fans off screen, where this sort of attitude is far less prevalent.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

George Carlin wrote:I really don't understand all of this bickering.

All Wazza Fartface needs to do is select:

15 Hogg
14 North
13 Joseph
12 Henshaw
11 Watson
10 Farrell
09 Webb

08 Vunipola
07 Hardie
06 Itoje
05 J Gray
04 Kruis
03 Cole
02 Harley
01 Vunipola

Robert remains your mother's brother.

Nice. Here's the dirt track XV to thrash the Maori:

1.McGrath 2.George 3.Nel 4.AWJ 5.Launchbury 6.Henderson 7.Warburton 8.Faletau 9.Davies 10.Biggar 11.Seymour 12.Roberts 13.Tuilagi 14.Amos 15.Williams

I knew it.

I knew you were Welsh really.

Axe it.

Outdated concept that puts players careers at risk and is nothing more than a commercial exercise designed to line the pockets of the Home team.

You can understand why Gatland is pleased to be offered the job as coach of the Lions for next year.

If and it is a big (IF) he does get a series win over New Zealand, what with wining the series last time against Australia.

It will put him in the best position for New Zealand head coach. I mean how could they turn him down?

I think that's what he sees in it. He let Wales play far more liberally in NZ this Summer, and Wales got some praise from the media etc. for the way they approached the games, by trying to run the ball. They never really looked like winning a game, but they scored some great tries, and went toe to toe with NZ for a good portion of the first two tests. I cannot help but feel the way they played was almost public relations for Gatland, a way of coming back to NZ and saying "look, Gatlandball is a lie, I can coach teams that run the ball as well". The last time he was down in that part of the world- the 2013 Tour- the media had a field day with the term, with the NZ journalists claiming it was what the SH journalists were branding Gatland's tactics as, and vice verse. Media perspectives stick, and play a big part in how popular someone is, and in the modern age, regardless of the position, or field, that enters the decision of those who choose the figurehead/leader they want to promote to represent them.

In the same manner, if he even wins one test down in NZ with the Lions, he'll be held in high regard. The status of the job is in itself a good mark on the CV; winning Lions coach, retained Lions coach. However, add in the fact that- unless they get thumped every week, including the non-Test games- it's a relatively low risk approach for Gatland. The All Blacks are expected to win, and handsomely, and Gatland gets to select from the cream of the crop of European playing and coaching talent in an attempt to try and upset the apple cart. Even if he loses all three tests by playing well, or by keeping the scorelines close, the amount of media coverage and hype that surrounds the Lions Tour means that he will have so much exposure to the NZ public, and be such a prominent persona in the rugby world down there, that that legacy will last until after the WC, when NZ will be looking for a new coach. In the absence of coming back to NZ and being the best club/super rugby coach- which is a massive risk in and of itself- this is Gatland's way of effectively winning the 'hearts and minds' of both the NZ media and rugby people, and the NZ public at large.

Or am I being too cynical...

.

Hopefully Gatland will leave the majority of Irish players at home.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Hopefully Gatland will leave the majority of Irish players at home.

Thankfully, I doubt Gatland will take many Irish players. The tour will be dominated by English and Welsh and Scotland should have better representation than 2013. Contrary to recent Lions tours, we lack "star" players and it wouldn't be outrageous to select a non-Irish Test XV.

Poorfour wrote:We would have lost the first test but for a loose bit of turf that spoiled Beale's 80th minute kick. The Lions were not remotely convincing in that test... but Gatland persisted and lost the second test. The final test had a comfortable scoreline, but it took a broader change of personnel - some of it enforced - to get there.

Hey didn't the same turf stop Halfpenny notching an 80th minute winning penalty in the second test? It's funny how this is never mentioned but Beale's is. Whatever suits your anti-Gatland and anti-Wales agenda I guess.

#LionsSeriesThrashing2013

I think the next discussion should be lions captain. We need a world class performer who is a good leader and also assured of his place in the starting team. The clear and obvious choice for most people with both eyes open is AWJ .

Justt think Halfpenny's kick was much harder than Beales, don't think he slipped. And its set in stone; Itoje for captain.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Poorfour wrote:We would have lost the first test but for a loose bit of turf that spoiled Beale's 80th minute kick.

Hey didn't the same turf stop Halfpenny notching an 80th minute winning penalty in the second test? It's funny how this is never mentioned but Beale's is. Whatever suits your anti-Gatland and anti-Wales agenda I guess.

Halfpenny didn't slip like Beale. He just didn't have it in his legs to get the kick. I thought he would make it, even though it was some ask.

I know, but still, it's funny how one missed kick is frequently mentioned and the other isn't. The Aussies came just as close to winning as they did getting whitewashed . But like I said whatever suits the chips-on-shoulders-agenda from these anti-Welsh people.

Itoje to 6 with Hartley as VC. AWJ is the best choice for captain .

mikey_dragon wrote:The clear and obvious choice for most people with both eyes open is AWJ .

No 7&1/2 wrote:]And its set in stone; Itoje for captain.

That's it boys, enough of this "discussion" stuff, let's have inflexible, WUM-like statements-posing-as-opinions posted with little or no qualification or discussion around them, before endless accusations of national bias for several pages until everyone's left. That's the kind of good quality, opinion based discussion I look forward to on 606.

Not sure he'll make the team, nor Hartley. Itoje will if fit and given he'll probably not be England captain by then gives a nice lions footnote.

miaow wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:The clear and obvious choice for most people with both eyes open is AWJ .

No 7&1/2 wrote:]And its set in stone; Itoje for captain.

That's it boys, enough of this "discussion" stuff, let's have inflexible, WUM-like statements-posing-as-opinions posted with little or no qualification or discussion around them, before endless accusations of national bias for several pages until everyone's left. That's the kind of good quality, opinion based discussion I look forward to on 606.

You do seem to like wumming, you were up to it in the 6Ns with the importance of group games.

mikey_dragon wrote:I know, but still, it's funny how one missed kick is frequently mentioned and the other isn't. The Aussies came just as close to winning as they did getting whitewashed . But like I said whatever suits the chips-on-shoulders-agenda from these anti-Welsh people.

Itoje to 6 with Hartley as VC. AWJ is the best choice for captain .

The difference is that one kick was very makeable but Beale's non-kicking foot ended up on a piece of turf kicked loose by a scrum (he should have noticed and asked if he could move the tee, but still) and he slipped.

Halfpenny, as had been noted, had a much harder kick but didn't make it. Failing to convert a slim chance happens all the time. Failing to convert a straightforward chance for an unusual reason gets noted.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

miaow wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:The clear and obvious choice for most people with both eyes open is AWJ .

No 7&1/2 wrote:]And its set in stone; Itoje for captain.

That's it boys, enough of this "discussion" stuff, let's have inflexible, WUM-like statements-posing-as-opinions posted with little or no qualification or discussion around them, before endless accusations of national bias for several pages until everyone's left. That's the kind of good quality, opinion based discussion I look forward to on 606.

You do seem to like wumming, you were up to it in the 6Ns with the importance of group games.

The WUM comment was in reference to Mikey, because, you know, that's what he likes to do. He's even signposted the fact he's trying to wind you/anyone up by putting a big fat old emoji right next to it. You've fallen into his trap by engaging with him, and if you're genuinely being deadpan and serious in your suggestion, that's just tragic. I'm not sure which is more embarrassing.

Also, as you appear to lack the ability to grasp things like nuance, logic, and anything other than the 'opinion' that pops into your head, you've dredged up the fact you couldn't understand why perhaps a MASSIVE, ONCE IN A GENERATION/LIFETIME game at Rugby's showpiece event that decided who qualified from the group stage was more exciting for the fans than a fixture that occurs every single season. Not my fault you can't hear opposing thoughts, as you've demonstrated again today with regards to your clumsy celebration of Sam Warburton's injury.

miaow wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

miaow wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:The clear and obvious choice for most people with both eyes open is AWJ .

No 7&1/2 wrote:]And its set in stone; Itoje for captain.

That's it boys, enough of this "discussion" stuff, let's have inflexible, WUM-like statements-posing-as-opinions posted with little or no qualification or discussion around them, before endless accusations of national bias for several pages until everyone's left. That's the kind of good quality, opinion based discussion I look forward to on 606.

You do seem to like wumming, you were up to it in the 6Ns with the importance of group games.

The WUM comment was in reference to Mikey, because, you know, that's what he likes to do. He's even signposted the fact he's trying to wind you/anyone up by putting a big fat old emoji right next to it. You've fallen into his trap by engaging with him, and if you're genuinely being deadpan and serious in your suggestion, that's just tragic. I'm not sure which is more embarrassing.

Also, as you appear to lack the ability to grasp things like nuance, logic, and anything other than the 'opinion' that pops into your head, you've dredged up the fact you couldn't understand why perhaps a MASSIVE, ONCE IN A GENERATION/LIFETIME game at Rugby's showpiece event that decided who qualified from the group stage was more exciting for the fans than a fixture that occurs every single season. Not my fault you can't hear opposing thoughts, as you've demonstrated again today with regards to your clumsy celebration of Sam Warburton's injury.

Yes fallen into the trap by answering it with a guy who is pretty nailed on to start...

You are now appearing to just be a defensive Wales fan seeing the bad in every comment where there is none. Again no celebration just the fact it was fortunate for us. No need to make stuff up.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yes fallen into the trap by answering it with a guy who is pretty nailed on to start...

You are now appearing to just be a defensive Wales fan seeing the bad in every comment where there is none. Again no celebration just the fact it was fortunate for us. No need to make stuff up.

Making stuff up? Dear me. I take it English is your native tongue? In which case, why do you appear to be so confused that words and language have meanings that are both multiple and loaded; calling an injury "fortunate" would be interpreted by most English speakers as enjoying the fact that a human being suffered a serious injury on a rugby field in an attempt to wind up Welsh posters, or at the very least seeing it as completely unimportant in relation to this fantasy rugby idea you have in your head where player X can replace player Y and that there are no other variables that come into play such as team mates, the opposition, conditions, fitness of everyone, mentality, leadership, morale...I could go on, but I won't, because this is evidently no use to you. You seem to be stuck in a Top Trumps kind of "SOB good, Warburton not as good" mentality, which is hilarious if it weren't so tragic. It's why:

1. Your opinion on rugby is clearly worthless, as you're an armchair fan playing fantasy rugby, where it is "fortunate" someone gets injured because their fictional, computer game ability is apparently inferior to another player you would prefer to start.
2. You're engaging with a WUM as if they're serious!
3. You're championing a Lions captain one year out who has less than a season of international rugby under his belt, and yet is apparently a nailed on starter!

Incredible.

Also, don't evoke an us, here. There's only you. Don't try to give your really uneducated opinion the gravitas of the rest of the Lions support. It doesn't have it. It wasn't the best thing for the Lions to lose their captain, clearly. That much is obvious. Whether it benefited the team that SOB replaced Warburton is very much up for debate, but it's a pretty flimsy one to base the 2nd Test- a loss- against the 3rd- an emphatic win- as evidence that the team actually benefited from this one change in personnel, particularly as Warburton was imperious at the breakdown before going off injured, taking his leadership with him (where the Lions were ahead on the scoreboard). Also, that's not what you were solely doing, that's what you've backtracked on to pretend your comment was loaded with the very obvious desire to taunt people on these boards. No, there is no "us" here, you were clearly looking to divide and disparage, firstly by celebrating Warburton's injury to get a reaction, and now claiming that my nationality apparently has an impact on my defensiveness on these boards. Well, quite the bigot, aren't we.

As I said, words have connotations. I'd hesitate before you use them. You appear to not be very well versed in their meanings.

I'm going to be honest, buggers of with this tripe. Nobody cares for the crap you are all spouting

Not at all miaow and its been pointed out to you several times yet you continue to wum. Again where have I said the 3rd test turnaround was due to SOB for Warburton? You've misunderstood and now can't back down.Calm yourself stop making stuff up. And yes I'm very confident Itoje will start the 1st Lions test (at either lock or at 6) and will be a very strong candidate for captain.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not at all miaow and its been pointed out to you several times yet you continue to wum. Again where have I said the 3rd test turnaround was due to SOB for Warburton? You've misunderstood and now can't back down.Calm yourself stop making stuff up. And yes I'm very confident Itoje will start the 1st Lions test (at either lock or at 6) and will be a very strong candidate for captain.

Again, backtracking. Big difference between Itoje starting and being a 'set in stone' captain. Are you starting to grasp how the words you are using are perhaps not the words you mean, or at least are words you wish you hadn't used, once you're confronted over how stupid they are?

These are all things you have literally mentioned, literally, factually evoked, earlier in this thread, that the 3rd Test selection- and thus win- was due in part to the fortune of Warburton's injury. Are you dense? You seem like you probably are, so I'm going to leave it there.

Every one seems happy, or mostly every one seem happy the Gatland got the job as head coach of the Lions.

But what would be classed a good tour?

How many games/test would he have to win to be claimed a success?

I'm glad the Lion's tour always brings out the best in fans.

miaow wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not at all miaow and its been pointed out to you several times yet you continue to wum. Again where have I said the 3rd test turnaround was due to SOB for Warburton? You've misunderstood and now can't back down.Calm yourself stop making stuff up. And yes I'm very confident Itoje will start the 1st Lions test (at either lock or at 6) and will be a very strong candidate for captain.

Again, backtracking. Big difference between Itoje starting and being a 'set in stone' captain. Are you starting to grasp how the words you are using are perhaps not the words you mean, or at least are words you wish you hadn't used, once you're confronted over how stupid they are?

These are all things you have literally mentioned, literally, factually evoked, earlier in this thread, that the 3rd Test selection- and thus win- was due in part to the fortune of Warburton's injury. Are you dense? You seem like you probably are, so I'm going to leave it there.

Ever think other people apart from yourself know mikeys postings? Yes I'm pretty sure Itoje will start despite him only just starting out. You seem really angry about Warburton being picked on rep and you're not reading properly so yes please leave it.

majesticimperialman wrote:Every one seems happy, or mostly every one seem happy the Gatland got the job as head coach of the Lions.

But what would be classed a good tour?

How many games/test would he have to win to be claimed a success?

succes would be 2 1 but realistically a closely fought series would be seen as good surely?

Poorfour wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:I know, but still, it's funny how one missed kick is frequently mentioned and the other isn't. The Aussies came just as close to winning as they did getting whitewashed . But like I said whatever suits the chips-on-shoulders-agenda from these anti-Welsh people.

Itoje to 6 with Hartley as VC. AWJ is the best choice for captain .

The difference is that one kick was very makeable but Beale's non-kicking foot ended up on a piece of turf kicked loose by a scrum (he should have noticed and asked if he could move the tee, but still) and he slipped.

Halfpenny, as had been noted, had a much harder kick but didn't make it. Failing to convert a slim chance happens all the time. Failing to convert a straightforward chance for an unusual reason gets noted.

Can you remember exactly where it was taken from then? I thought it was a similar distance and position to Halfpenny's kick. Both kickers missed so I just don't see a legit reason to still be going on about just the one miss almost 4 years later. I'll tell you what I'm grateful for though, that we had some quality team Wales players in that first test who managed to score all the points for the Lions....

Serious question but does anyone know how touting a former Lions captain, world class lock and great leader to be this year's Lions captain is wumming? Beggars belief! Why some people get wound up over AWJ is also another mystery to me.

His 1st missed pen was reasonably the same angle but a bit closer, his 2nd missed pen in front and about 5m into the aus half.

Yay. Gatland is lions coach

Well, there goes my interest in her lions all together now!

Another tour filled with overhyped Welshman and Gatlandball played ad nausem

Whitewash incoming!

Coming back to this forum after the off season. Same old shoite, same old hot air, same old pointless "fans" so busy being right and taking themselves so seriously. No wonder so many decent posters can't be bothered any more. Shame, used to be worth visiting.

tigertattie wrote:Yay. Gatland is lions coach

Well, there goes my interest in her lions all together now!

Another tour filled with overhyped Welshman and Gatlandball played ad nausem

Whitewash incoming!

Frak bye then dear