Boudjellal; A Study in Being A Prat

So let me preface this by saying that Toulon have amazing fans and many players I have a huge amount of respect and admiration for have played for them and continue to play for them. But I can't stand them. It's not their success I resent. It's not their money. The one thing about Toulon that is a problem for me is Mourad Boudjellal.

His latest outburst is astonishing. Toulon have had a bit of a slow start to the season and haven't been playing well. He's slammed the squad saying they're simply not good enough- they are rubbish apparently. The article linked to below lists some of players he's signed in the last two seasons; Ma’a Nonu, Samu Manoa, James O’Connor, Charles Ollivon, Duane Vermeulen, François Trinh-Duc, Liam Gill, Marcel van der Merwe, Vincent Clerc, Juandré Kruger and Ayumu Goromaru.

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/toulons-problem-is-their-patience-not-their-rubbish-squad/

Pretty impressive right? I bet we can all look at this list and think- jeez, my club could certainly use two or three of those lads. But think of some of the guys who have retired or left; Wilkinson, Giteau, Hayman, Botha, Hernandez etc. Those guys were ridiculously good at this game we love, true legends really. It's no surprise they've struggled to fully replace them. The thing is, he thinks thats what he's entitled to- to not only to have the best players every year but to win every trophy every season forever. As that article I linked above points out, many of those guys were possibly the best players of their generation in their positions. I don't care how much money you have, you can't keep that kind of team together for long.

He can't accept that sport naturally goes in cycles, that the best can never stay the best for long. And because he can't accept that, he's unbelievably disrespectful to the players he has signed. These are not bad players by any means, they are still quality players who are rated and respected and have played test rugby And- for huge amounts of money- they have turned down other offers to move to his club and make his dream a reality. He repays them in insults. He openly lambasts them in the press when they lose but when Toulon win he's always front and centre in the celebrations- despite never kicking a ball or making a tackle himself.

And that is why i think Boudjellal is a real prat.

Agree 100%

I have no sympathy for the players though. They're neither blind nor stupid, they know what he's like and should have read/watched news stories and interviews about him.

But all of them still chose to go take his money over staying at the clubs that grew them as players, so to be honest they made their beds. Frak 'em.

we are talking about this here:-

https://www.606v2.com/t63827-top-14-season-2016-17

I can't imagine the players are taking too much notice, MB is forever spouting of about something. They would have known he was like this prior to signing, so as Yappy's says they've made their bed and they really shouldn't be worried.

If the option was Mad Mourad with his rants and petulance or Smug permatanned Bruce Craig/Nigel Wray I would go for Mourad every time.

Sure he is loud, sure he is "nouveau riche", sure he is an attention seeking tripe hound. But he has not lent money to Toulon, it has been given with no recourse to remove. He shouts and demands things, but never gets them whereas the english versions work behind closed doors and get their way.

so sure, Mourad is a prat - but one I quite like. An honest prat. Much better than a conniving, deceitful two face.

LondonTiger wrote:If the option was Mad Mourad with his rants and petulance or Smug permatanned Bruce Craig/Nigel Wray I would go for Mourad every time.

Sure he is loud, sure he is "nouveau riche", sure he is an attention seeking tripe hound. But he has not lent money to Toulon, it has been given with no recourse to remove. He shouts and demands things, but never gets them whereas the english versions work behind closed doors and get their way.

so sure, Mourad is a prat - but one I quite like. An honest prat. Much better than a conniving, deceitful two face.

One thing hes glaringly overlooked is a man he choose to coach the team, he brought in Diego Dominguez who he himself has said he needed to learn a lot before taking the job which like Mourad is crazy

LondonTiger wrote:If the option was Mad Mourad with his rants and petulance or Smug permatanned Bruce Craig/Nigel Wray I would go for Mourad every time.

Sure he is loud, sure he is "nouveau riche", sure he is an attention seeking tripe hound. But he has not lent money to Toulon, it has been given with no recourse to remove. He shouts and demands things, but never gets them whereas the english versions work behind closed doors and get their way.

so sure, Mourad is a prat - but one I quite like. An honest prat. Much better than a conniving, deceitful two face.

This is very true! By the way, I'm not a big fan of Nigel Wray either

LordDowlais wrote:we are talking about this here:-

https://www.606v2.com/t63827-top-14-season-2016-17

Sorry- completely missed that one!

marty2086 wrote:One thing hes glaringly overlooked is a man he choose to coach the team, he brought in Diego Dominguez who he himself has said he needed to learn a lot before taking the job which like Mourad is crazy

He's been Head Coach for just a handful of games, but they're saying Boudjellal is thinking about sacking him already.

The thing is, LondonTiger is right- he won't get his way for much longer. Sooner or later many players and coaches will increasingly decide they simply don't want to work for him any more. Boudjellal tried to sign Ruan Pienaar two years ago, but he stayed with Ulster despite the fact he would have earned lots more money and had a much better chance of winning trophies. I think thats partly because he's respected here- the management at Ulster never tried to stop him playing international rugby or got on his back if he had a bad game. Similarly if he does end up sacking Dominguez a month into his contract, top coaches will look at that and think they'd be on a hiding to nothing if they took the job.

So Boudjellal is, in some ways, his own worst enemy. But you know what... I still think he's a prat all the same!

LondonTiger wrote:If the option was Mad Mourad with his rants and petulance or Smug permatanned Bruce Craig/Nigel Wray I would go for Mourad every time.

Sure he is loud, sure he is "nouveau riche", sure he is an attention seeking tripe hound. But he has not lent money to Toulon, it has been given with no recourse to remove. He shouts and demands things, but never gets them whereas the english versions work behind closed doors and get their way.

so sure, Mourad is a prat - but one I quite like. An honest prat. Much better than a conniving, deceitful two face.

+1

B is a prat but openly so.

Those other two are snakes and genuinely bad for the game.

Notch wrote:

marty2086 wrote:One thing hes glaringly overlooked is a man he choose to coach the team, he brought in Diego Dominguez who he himself has said he needed to learn a lot before taking the job which like Mourad is crazy

He's been Head Coach for just a handful of games, but they're saying Boudjellal is thinking about sacking him already.

The thing is, LondonTiger is right- he won't get his way for much longer. Sooner or later many players and coaches will increasingly decide they simply don't want to work for him any more. Boudjellal tried to sign Ruan Pienaar two years ago, but he stayed with Ulster despite the fact he would have earned lots more money and had a much better chance of winning trophies. I think thats partly because he's respected here- the management at Ulster never tried to stop him playing international rugby or got on his back if he had a bad game. Similarly if he does end up sacking Dominguez a month into his contract, top coaches will look at that and think they'd be on a hiding to nothing if they took the job.

So Boudjellal is, in some ways, his own worst enemy. But you know what... I still think he's a prat all the same!

Hes a grade A prat, some on here saying hes honest but hes hot air most of the time. Threatening to sack Halfpenny for getting injured and not healing fast enough for Mourads liking, requesting to join the AP, threatening the ARU and Giteau, these are things he knows he cant follow through on but he stomps his feet hoping someone will cave to him and he'll get his own way.

Dominguez isn't a top coach so maybe it won't hurt his credibility getting a new coach in

With Pienaar given how much he still wants to stay I think its more him and his family love Belfast and are at home, especially given everyone seems to be of the impression he'll be back in the future

Signing top players is all well and good but do you have players that can gel and compliment each other? Steffon Armitage looked so good for Toulon because he had guys like Fernandez Lobbe and Smith doing a lot of the heavy lifting for him. Do they have that now? Do they have an ethos to work to like they seemed to have when Laporte as in charge?

That side is full of stars but the fall off from recent seasons I see more of leadership/character. Without a heavy dose of character, stars can become show ponies.

In the past, what forward would have an over-inflated-ego if you had Haymans, Botha and Lobbe in the huddle looking at you. Words wouldn't even need to be spoken, you'd do you job full stop.

Same in the backline, if you have Wilkinson calling the shots, you did your job.

This season that pack looks to be run by Gorgodze and the back line has no one (maybe TrinhDuc). Neither of those have the aura to keep their part of the team in check (if anything those are two of the guys that could get the over-inflated-ego).

Mourad was close to hiring Lancaster but chose Diego. Toulon have done best with Laporte and coaches low on creativity but high on fundamentals, structure, etc.

Did Mourad think he could call the shots more with Diego being inexperienced?

Lancaster/Farrel would have been a good coaching combo (if they wanted to work together again).

The right kind of people to work with and manage/scare the stars of Toulon. Still I'm pleased they're not going well, hopefully it'll make Europe a bit more interesting then just Clermont and Toulon's playground that other teams muck around in.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:In the past, what forward would have an over-inflated-ego if you had Haymans, Botha and Lobbe in the huddle looking at you.  Words wouldn't even need to be spoken, you'd do you job full stop.

Same in the backline, if you have Wilkinson calling the shots, you did your job.

Too right- a team of Captains. Every dominant side in European Cup history has had the same. So do all Rugby World Cup winning sides. McCaw, Read and Carter are the latest inspirational leaders to guide their team to glory through sheer force of will but who could forget England and South Africa before that?

The worst thing in my opinion is that not only he is undermining his own team by insulting his players ( some Coaches do that albeit behind closed doors), he has already a successor to Diego Dominguez lined up with Fabien Galthie and has been apparently talking to Mike Ford. What an absolute lack of respect.

whocares wrote:The worst thing in my opinion is that not only he is undermining his own team by insulting his players ( some Coaches do that albeit behind closed doors), he has already a successor to Diego Dominguez lined up with Fabien Galthie and has been apparently talking to Mike Ford. What an absolute lack of respect.

I know, exactly! And rugby was once based on a code of respect we were told.. that still exists but certain very rich club owners don't see it that way. Not just Boudjellal as has been mentioned. Nigel Wray and Bruce Craig too.

Wouldn't make me sad to see their teams fail to win anything this season, lets put it that way. No matter how decent their fans are or how many good players they have I can't get over the fact they are owned by these eejits. It's those three teams that I never want to get drawn against regardless of whether or not I feel we can win. I would rather play against Clermont and lose than play against Toulon and win.

I saw up near the top there a bit of criticism about players taking the money rather than remaining loyal. I think we have to be really careful about demonising players for taking more money. They have a limited earning potential and so i say they should absolutely take the best offer. I could get a job at 18 in an office and if i do good work etc keep that job to i want to retire at 65 a rugby player could break into a team at 20 and retire at 34 giving him only 14 years to earn his money and thats before you think that rugby is a very tough sport and injuries occur, a players careeer can be over like that. Then what do you do? There are a few jobs in commentary or coaching but not huge numbers of them. Even if you did a degree in your younger days it may be 10 years since you did it and i don't know a degree which would be still up to date 10 years later and even then you have no experiance.
We as fans are quick to criticise guys for not showing loyalty when offered more money but we aren't the ones who have to worry about their future or about their families lives after rugby. We also need to remember that clubs will not always be loyal to players either just look at Ruan Pienaar. I think we should definately think twice before saying too much about players taking more money elsewhere.

My wife (a native French speaker) met him once at a conference in Nice.

She said that he was fantastically motivated and pretty intelligent for a self made man. She liked him right up until the point he gave one of his assistants an absolute bollocking for apparently no reason that she could see.

I don't think I've changed anyone's perception of him here.

There's talk of the coach being sacked now. The problem for Toulon now is other clubs have improved and him acting the Bo!!ix is OK if the team is winning but if the team is not winning things can go downhill fast.

Notch wrote:

whocares wrote:The worst thing in my opinion is that not only he is undermining his own team by insulting his players ( some Coaches do that albeit behind closed doors), he has already a successor to Diego Dominguez lined up with Fabien Galthie and has been apparently talking to Mike Ford. What an absolute lack of respect.

I know, exactly! And rugby was once based on a code of respect we were told.. that still exists but certain very rich club owners don't see it that way. Not just Boudjellal as has been mentioned. Nigel Wray and Bruce Craig too.

Wouldn't make me sad to see their teams fail to win anything this season, lets put it that way. No matter how decent their fans are or how many good players they have I can't get over the fact they are owned by these eejits. It's those three teams that I never want to get drawn against regardless of whether or not I feel we can win. I would rather play against Clermont and lose than play against Toulon and win.

Notch maybe I should just put Mark Anscombes name out there and say nothing more

neilthom7 wrote:I saw up near the top there a bit of criticism about players taking the money rather than remaining loyal.  I think we have to be really careful about demonising players for taking more money.  They have a limited earning potential and so i say they should absolutely take the best offer.  I could get a job at 18 in an office and if i do good work etc keep that job to i want to retire at 65 a rugby player could break into a team at 20 and retire at 34 giving him only 14 years to earn his money and thats before you think that rugby is a very tough sport and injuries occur, a players careeer can be over like that. Then what do you do? There are a few jobs in commentary or coaching but not huge numbers of them. Even if you did a degree in your younger days it may be 10 years since you did it and i don't know a degree which would be still up to date 10 years later and even then you have no experiance.
We as fans are quick to criticise guys for not showing loyalty when offered more money but we aren't the ones who have to worry about their future or about their families lives after rugby.  We also need to remember that clubs will not always be loyal to players either just look at Ruan Pienaar. I think we should definately think twice before saying too much about players taking more money elsewhere.

That's all very true and I agree (it's my comment you're talking about).

Except with Toulon, their policy of buying in ready made superstars isn't the same as other clubs. Those players are already on a Poopie ton of money, far more then the average person would get wether they're supporting their family or not, they've then opted to go to Toulon knowing what the culture and guy in charge is like. That's on them, I have no sympathy but I'm not criticising their choices either.

George Carlin wrote:My wife (a native French speaker) met him once at a conference in Nice.

She said that he was fantastically motivated and pretty intelligent for a self made man. She liked him right up until the point he gave one of his assistants an absolute bollocking for apparently no reason that she could see.

I don't think I've changed anyone's perception of him here.

Well, he clearly has talent and motivation to get from where he started to where he is today. I can't deny him that! Its just a shame that he's, well, a prat basically.

yappysnap wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:I saw up near the top there a bit of criticism about players taking the money rather than remaining loyal.  I think we have to be really careful about demonising players for taking more money.  They have a limited earning potential and so i say they should absolutely take the best offer.  I could get a job at 18 in an office and if i do good work etc keep that job to i want to retire at 65 a rugby player could break into a team at 20 and retire at 34 giving him only 14 years to earn his money and thats before you think that rugby is a very tough sport and injuries occur, a players careeer can be over like that. Then what do you do? There are a few jobs in commentary or coaching but not huge numbers of them. Even if you did a degree in your younger days it may be 10 years since you did it and i don't know a degree which would be still up to date 10 years later and even then you have no experiance.
We as fans are quick to criticise guys for not showing loyalty when offered more money but we aren't the ones who have to worry about their future or about their families lives after rugby.  We also need to remember that clubs will not always be loyal to players either just look at Ruan Pienaar. I think we should definately think twice before saying too much about players taking more money elsewhere.

That's all very true and I agree (it's my comment you're talking about).

Except with Toulon, their policy of buying in ready made superstars isn't the same as other clubs. Those players are already on a Poopie ton of money, far more then the average person would get wether they're supporting their family or not, they've then opted to go to Toulon knowing what the culture and guy in charge is like. That's on them, I have no sympathy but I'm not criticising their choices either.

I can kind if understand it though. I could see myself holding my nose and working for an arse of a boss for two years if it meant I had the financial freedom do whatever I wanted to do as soon as my contract ended. It doesn't really matter mind you. I just think, there's a way to treat people.

Plenty of ignorance in regards to Nigel Wray IMO but anyway the thread is about Mourad.

I can see the passion that these owners have. I am not going to claim they are perfect, they are not but the effort they put into these clubs is impressive. Mourad genuinely cares about the club. These owners are super fans.

I think my biggest issue with Mourad Boudjellal is that he obviously does not believe that having a good academy is important and the way he is running Toulon is damaging to French rugby.

I think it's important to a team to have a good balance of youth and experience, good balance of foreign talent and domestic talent.

Toulon are still a group of superstars brought together. They are more football-esque in their approach.

I am surprised that Mourad has not done more to try and develop some home grown Toulon talent.