PGA Tour: Elementary Bubba Watson: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).Davis Love made the fairly predictable choices last Monday of Fowler, Holmes and Kuchar as his first three "picks" for Team USA and seemed pretty pleased with himself. But now comes the hard part. You don't have to study too hard to read what's between the lines of his pga.com interview, as he has his Holmes but not his, or anyone else's it seems, Watson:

2)."These are the three guys we want right now." Which translated means: We didn't want Bubba.

3).We're looking for "guys we think are going to handle this stage and fit in with the group, be ready to play under that pressure". Not have a career singles record of 0 - 3, eh Bubba? (The same as Spieth's Pres Cup / Ryder Cup singles record, as it happens, the answer to the age-old trivia question: What do Messrs DeLaet, McDowell and Leishman have in common?) And, with this somewhat cliquey group, perhaps Bubba doesn't "fit in"?

4)."Rickie had a big schedule, with a lot weighing on him and he missed the Tour Championship by half a point," said Davis.
Bubba, on the other hand, played the same number (8) events from July 1st thru last week, outplayed Rickie in the Olympics, has won on Tour this season and is ranked higher in the owgr's. Oh, and Bubba didn't miss the Tour Championship, he made it comfortably.

5).I don't think the Task Force did Love any favours breaking up the timing of his Captain's Picks. He's clearly dissed Bubba and made it very difficult for Love to go back and choose him now.
On the other hand, Bubba could win the Tour Championship - how would he then feel about playing on a Team that has made it obvious that they don't want him?

6).Big sympathies for Bubba here, but what will Capt Love do now?  
New blood? The punditry seems to think he'll choose a young gun, Berger or Thomas - and one would think Thomas's relationship with LoveIV and cliquey best buds with Fowler and Spieth will help him if he can only help himself in Atlanta.

Or an Old head? Possibly Furyk, but I'd go with Dufner, 6 wins against 2 losses in his Presidents/Ryder Cups career, including 2 - 0 in singles. And a proven partner for Zach Johnson. Not to mention that Dufner would take the situation in his stride,

7).The wTF four-tournament action resumes in Boise, Idaho, where it's just warming up again after some frigid temps.
You know the score: The Top 25 money winners in this series, who have not already earned their Tour card via the web.com regular season, earn Tour cards for the 2016/2017 season. And the more money they earn, the higher their status with the stragglers probably only getting to play two of the first eight events, and likely only 2 of the following 8 also.

8).This is the fourth year for wTF and the 25th man on the past three money-lists has earned no less than $42K and no more than $44.3K.
So let's say $45K should get you a card, which would mean DeChambeau, Gonzales, Lindheim and Etulain already have their cards assured.
European standings after one event:
T11: Norlander
T13: Gonzo
T24: Johnston
etc.

9).Gregory Bourdy is throwing his chapeau into the wTF ring this week, joining Andrew Johnston and Aphibarnrat as potential European Tour defectors. Easily forgotten that highlights of Bourdy's season included T18 finishes in the US Open and PGA Championship. Bon chance.

10).Congrat's to Dustin Johnson on his BMW win and he joins Rory and Tiger as three-time FedEx Cup Play Off winners.
Meanwhile, Bubba Watson must be thrilled he championed the US cause in Rio when the Jordans and Dustins stayed at home. It sounds as if Bubba embraced the whole experience, proud to represent USA on the world's second biggest international stage. But the good old USA is not embracing Bubba, despite his 8th-place finish, and that's a shame which might make potential candidates for the Tokyo golf action think twice about playing in four years' time.

robopz wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:robo,
All I was trying to say is that it is only relevant because Love brought it up. And it highly unlikely that he would have done if he knew that it might not attract favour with his audience.

 I guess the thing I don't understand is WHY religion is such a fixation and lightning rod on this board?  It took me scrolling through about 20 screens to read the article at the link you posted... and his faith was mentioned in about two sentences... Yet THAT is what you was fixated on out of that entire article.  

Look, I get it... I like to keep religion and sport separate as well, but if someone who plays sport is religious... SO THE FRICK WHAT?   Unless DL3 publicly invokes his God to slay the evil Euro Ryder Cup Team or has Team USA led into the opening ceremonies with cross bearing acolytes... then why should anybody give a rats arse about his personal beliefs?   Unless they're religiophobes... they shouldn't.

That's my last word on this topic...   back to golf

If anyone brought up something in a speech about winning that has no place in sport, then it would be brought up immediately (remember Fried Chicken Gate?).
Religioni has no place in ANYTHING except for their pathetic fairy tale clubs. That's where it should stay. Private, like their own "good book" tells them to.
You've nailed it. "Why should anyone give a rat's ass about his PERSONAL beliefs" EXACTLY, their PERSONAL beliefs, so don't bring them up in public.
Yes, I'm a proud religiophobe. Religion is a disgusting, dangerous, harmful cult, and there is nothing good done by religion that can't be done without it, and a great deal of harm that can only be done by religion. So like someone swearing on tv and they hit the dump button, I wish they'd do the same with this religious nonsense because it is about as welcome as racism, sexism and homophobia.

So, if religion has no place on a golf forum, then it has no place in any sort of golf interview either. Got it? Religion has no place anywhere.

Super

I am pretty sure the way you phrase your thoughts on this matter doesn't help to encourage useful debate on the issue. You sound like a hyperbolic mash up of douglas murray and sam Harris.

Well this conversation took a strange turn over the weekend...

Anyway, well done to Beef for securing his card

McLaren wrote:Super

I am pretty sure the way you phrase your thoughts on this matter doesn't help to encourage useful debate on the issue.  You sound like a hyperbolic mash up of douglas murray and sam Harris.

Who cares what you think Mac, you write like the wettest limpest handshake around, which does nothing but stifle debate.

For your information, there was nothing remotely confrontational about my last post.

Religion is a bad idea full stop, and you don't have to tolerate or be nice about bad ideas do you? Why should I phrase anything in a way YOU consider useful?

Yeah, back to the non-religious bollox

super_realist wrote:Yes, I'm a proud religiophobe. Religion is a disgusting, dangerous, harmful cult, and there is nothing good done by religion that can't be done without it, and a great deal of harm that can only be done by religion. So like someone swearing on tv and they hit the dump button, I wish they'd do the same with this religious nonsense because it is about as welcome as racism, sexism and homophobia.

Can't tell you what an honor it is to be on the same blog with THE ONE who has figured out not only his own way, but the path everyone else should be taking to self improvement. I humbly kneel before your alter. Carry on....

Simple logic Robo. You're welcome, now you know how all those (mostly) American golfers feel when they think about their fake deity.

Robo I have also noticed the "wisdom" super seems to have.

From now on my posts on the "tell us about your game thread" will go like;

"I felt so blessed out there today, super_realist was clearly looking out for me..."

I too kneel before the alter of super. :angel:


Sups, do we get an after life. Don't worry if not some birdies will do instead.

You only get an afterlife if you worship me Mac, if you don't, you burn in in a fiery pit. Just being merciful, after all.

Thing is, that's no more stupid than what those golfers do, yet one is absurd and clearly crazy, and the other seems sensible to some people. Crackpot stuff.

Anyway, back to the golf. I'm delighted with my season, won nothing, but playing well.

navyblueshorts wrote:Enough religion bollox in this thread please.

Thank you, and I couldn't agree more, as that has been my point all along... :-)

Michael Thompson (not one of my top 200 golfers out there, Miguel Angel Carballo and Scott Stallings joined Beef as certainties to secure their Tour card for next season after DeChambeau and Gonzales earned their's last week.
Several on the threshhold including Europeans:
Gonzo, Norlander and Greg Owen.

I enjoy these tournaments but after 3 1/2 years of them there's more than a feeling we're regurgitating the same nearly men year after year. Greg Owen the poster boy for that I suppose, but Thompson, Carballo and Gonzales surely fall into the same category too.

What ever happened to Owen? He seemed to be a bit of a PGA stalwart like Jerry Kelly always there or there abouts, then disappeared, there was another English guy too, who I can't remember who was similar.

Owen never really learned to putt and his course management is sometimes 24-handicap stuff. Wonderful ball-striker when nothing's at stake. Strange thing about Owen:
His only two Top Five finishes since Feb 2007 have been in tournaments won by Fabian Gomez.

You thinking of Brian Davis super? He must be injured as he hasn't shown up in tournaments since June following two mid-tournament withdrawals. No idea what his status might now be; probably some sort of web.com or perhaps nothing at all.

I think that's who I was thinking about. He was another one who was pretty unknown here but did a fine job making a living out of being a journeyman in the states.

kwinigolfer wrote:I enjoy these tournaments but after 3 1/2 years of them there's more than a feeling we're regurgitating the same nearly men year after year. Greg Owen the poster boy for that I suppose, but Thompson, Carballo and Gonzales surely fall into the same category too.

. I have the same feeling. I haven't done a study of it, but it appears to me the combination of "The 25" plus the WTF yields about the same 35-40% rookie to 60-65% veteran success ratio as the old Q-school did. No surprise really.

kwinigolfer wrote:
I enjoy these tournaments but after 3 1/2 years of them there's more than a feeling we're regurgitating the same nearly men year after year. Greg Owen the poster boy for that I suppose, but Thompson, Carballo and Gonzales surely fall into the same category too.

Yeah, thought about the same thing. But it's probably like politicians: there are no better out there.

wow robo, same thoughts at the same time. Do I feel a supernatural connection here?

Brian Davis:
$13.29M career earnings. And 211 cuts made which qualifies him as a "veteran player" and will get him a handful of Tour starts, if he wants them, whatever else happens.

pedro wrote:wow robo, same thoughts at the same time. Do I feel a supernatural connection here?

Sorry Pedro... by definition there can only be one "THE ONE"... but we're not it....

With Beef securing his PGAT card how many tournaments can he get in?

What I think is that he'll probably be able to pick and choose as he'll likely get a lot of sponsor invitations, or? He's all over the US media and you can hardly find out who actually won the tournament.

Not a 100% on this, but it appears Davis will be getting some medical starts in the reshuffle category... Which is a bit better than having to rely solely on veteran status. Looks to be a tough road either way.

pedro,
The crucial thing now is to earn as much loot as he can in the next two tournaments to elevate his "reshuffle" standing which is based upon cash earned in these wT Finals, dovetailed with the web.com moneylist. If he's giving the fourth tournament a miss, that makes the third absolutely crucial.

Then, he should play all he can as early in the season as he can, which might be problematic with attractive ET events competing for his attention.


Ta on Davis, robo

Pedro... Agree on Beef... Regardless of his WTF priority ranking, he's likely to get as many SE's as he can handle. It's going to be interesting to see what he does this fall. Does he go back and focus on the R2D, or the PGAT fall events?

Kwini... has Beef been talking about skipping the final WTF event? In his case I'm not sure it really matters because of his likely favorable SE situation... but I'm with you on what he should do this fall. He's a good player, but not yet proven to be SO good as to succeed on the PGAT with a minimalist schedule. Getting a head start in the Fall against generally lesser competition, but still full points should be a big boost. Tough decisions ahead.

As far as I know he has already got some local US sponsors on board (Arby's) that wouldn't see any value in him playing in Europe. (although I of course don't know the details of his arrangement). But he'll probably give it a go after Dubai and see what happens.

Where are you watching the wtfs guys? Are they available online?

Pedro... If Beef doesn't come back until After Dubai... It'll be too late as all the fall PGAT events will be past. See the side by side schedule image at the link below

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ru5Lp45XNaI/V9-zM0c8PsI/AAAAAAAAAIw/9JDcvpr7udgnsMq5uSgItnPYhJOmcumGACLcB/s1600/2016TourSchedules-GPB.jpg

robo,
My understanding was that he'd committed for the first three tournaments, but not the fourth. Not sure whether that was a "wait and see" or because it clashes with the Dunhill, to which he is committed.

I'm not quite so enthusiastic about any ET golfer depending on sponsor's freebies; they hardly act in unison so it's still better for him to qualify well from the wTF's and play early (and play well!), take his future schedule into his own hands. Shane Lowry among several who have shown how not to do it, so perhaps Johnston can double-dip the smart way.

Kwini.... I hear what you are saying on the SE's, and certainly agree the higher the status he can obtain the better. But the thing Beef has going for him is even with low WTF priority, tournaments can use one of the two reserved WTF SE's on him and not have to dip into their unrestricted or other member SE's. That's a huge advantage for Beef over a non member as the PGAT is fairly reluctant in handing out a lot of their foreign SE's in the smaller field fall events.

robopz wrote:Pedro... If Beef doesn't come back until After Dubai... It'll be too late as all the fall PGAT events will be past. See the  side by side schedule image at the link below

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ru5Lp45XNaI/V9-zM0c8PsI/AAAAAAAAAIw/9JDcvpr7udgnsMq5uSgItnPYhJOmcumGACLcB/s1600/2016TourSchedules-GPB.jpg

Thanks robo, didn't quite have the schedule in my head. Thought Dubai was early Nov.

OK!

Still concerned his persona might wear out its welcome, but we'll have to see on that. Making sure he doesn't over-commit would be a 'uuuuge first step.

kwinigolfer wrote:OK!

Still concerned his persona might wear out its welcome, but we'll have to see on that. Making sure he doesn't over-commit would be a 'uuuuge first step, man.

fixed it

kwinigolfer wrote:Still concerned his persona might wear out its welcome, but we'll have to see on that. Making sure he doesn't over-commit would be a 'uuuuge first step.

I suppose he could wear out his welcome... but the guy seems so dang likable, not sure he would.  In any event and for reference sake... here's how deep the fields went in getting Webbies in for the PGAT fall events last year.  It appears as though there may be about 4-5 more exempt players this year, so it might not go this deep. The first number is the players that actually played.

35 - Fry's / Safeway - (3 eligible did not play which left 12 who couldn't get in)
36 - Shriner's Las Vegas (1 eligible did not play which left 12 who couldn't get in)
01 - CIMB Malaysia - (Limited field, Lahiri got in)
04 - WGC-HSBC - (Limited field, Grillo, Iwata, Lahiri & Aiken got in)
45 - Sanderson Farms (alt to WGC, all eligible who entered made the field)
43 - Mayakoba (3 eligible did not enter and 4 entered players could not get in)
47 - RSM (3 eligible did not play but all 49 were eligible)

Bottom line... if Beef can get top-30 WTF priority... he should be able to get into events 5 out of 6 weeks if he chooses to play all he's eligible for. As high as 35th priority might get him the same number.  Based on the past two years, even if he doesn't make the cut this week, his current roughly $55k should put him somewhere between 28-35.

Note... last year there was only 49 instead of 50 in the WTF category as Patrick Rodgers also qualified in the top-125 non member category.  But Jarrod Lyle and Bud Cauley playing on medicals in the reshuffle category and had 2 starts each that are included in the above numbers. Lyle got in Fry's via a SE, didn't get an applied for SE for Vegas and played the Sanderson Farms via priority. He did not enter the others but could have gotten one more start in the RSM but he was back home in AUS.  Both of Cauley's starts were via priority without SE's. He entered two others but fell short of priority and did not get SE's.

Stating the obvious, if Beef skips the Fall events on the PGATour, he will be near the bottom of the webbie priority list when the PGAT resumes its schedule in January.

And if thats the case, he will have to rely on Invites to get into Phoenix, Los Angeles, and Hawaii and possibly Palm Springs. (Should get into San Diego and Pebble Beach)

IMO, he almost has to play at least three of the domestic tournaments. (Napa, Vegas, Mississippi, Sea Island)

Beef is currently ranked #74 and his average is not very vulnerable to attrition through the 2015 season (relative to other players ahead of him). His 2015 season was awful, with no notable results so any good results he has next year will replace very poor results.

He needs to earn about 60-70 gross points to get into the Top 50 before the early WGC to get inside the Top 50. Very doable in five months.

Robo: I think John Peterson will be eligible for Medical starts out of the webbie category for the 2016-17 season.

I'm a little suspicious about all the "injuries" people seem to be having. You get people in proper contact sports and far more athletic sports having fewer and less serious injuries over a career.
Is something fundamentally wrong with golf training/practice/conditioning, or are too many golfers embellishing their injuries to take full advantage of the benefit of medical exemptions?
Sounds a bit like tax avoidance, not illegal, but the benefits are there. Is something similar going on with injuries?

GPB... I think you have it about right on Beef's situation for the fall and first of next year.

Super... I think there is "some" gaming of the medical situation, but not near as bad as it used to be since the PGAT recently put some time limits on when and how new Medicals can be used. And since to get a full MM it takes a 4-month continuous VERIFIED injury or family emergency, it's hard for a guy to game the system too bad.

But sure... take a situation like Poulter. It very well could have been that his timing on deciding to pull off the tour to reahab was based on the Major Medical rules. I think that's just smart and not gaming the system, but some might see it another way.

But it's not just MM rules that affect these guys decisions RE playing with injuries or deciding to sit out. ZERO-point OWGR rated starts because a guy can't play well due to injury are generally worse for their ranking long term than making no start at all. And with OWGR rankings being important to get into premiere events, those in the top 50-70 range certainly must be thinking about such things.

Sounds fair enough, I just can't see the number and length of injuries to be realistic. Don't blame them for using the system if it can be done, just like I'd avoid tax if there is a loophole, can't blame the players for playing by the rules.

I would suggest there are more PGA Tour pros trying to play through minor injuries and making things worse, both in results and health, than there ever are guys trying to fiddle the system - you only have to look at Europeans who have lost their cards as a result, going all the way back to Anders Hansen, Peter Hanson, Casey, Karlsson and, for all is really known about his present condition, Brian Davis.

Bourdy, Gonzo & Beef among those coming back for more at this week's wTF event in Columbus, Ohio.

super_realist wrote:Sounds fair enough, I just can't see the number and length of injuries to be realistic. Don't blame them for using the system if it can be done, just like I'd avoid tax if there is a loophole, can't blame the players for playing by the rules.

Rob Bolton is the tour's guru regarding major medical status.  This past summer in response to a point similar to yours, this is what he had to say... "I've tracked medicals for years, of course, and I'm not surprised that such a low percentage regains traction after returning to competition. So many try to play their way through whatever ailment they have, but they cost themselves valuable starts on a medical later. It goes against conventional wisdom not to play, but it's probably statistically smarter to sit out immediately to heal than to play hurt. Obviously, timing of injuries influences decisions, but the risk is greater than it seems it's realized."

If you're interested.... Bolton's running exemption listing can be found here: http://www.pgatour.com/fantasy/medical-extensions.html

EDIT... This pretty much mirrors the point kwini made as I was composing mine. The above comment is also addressing how difficult it is to successfully cone through the MM system. Most don't make it.

Ok, so if there is genuine injury, then is there something wrong with the way these guys are preparing for tournaments?
Seems a disproportionately high number of long term injuries for such a type of activity, unless of course the injuries weren't sustained whilst in the course of golf, i.e. Karlsson and Casey

super_realist wrote:Ok, so if there is genuine injury, then is there something wrong with the way these guys are preparing for tournaments?
Seems a disproportionately high number of long term injuries for such a type of activity, unless of course the injuries weren't sustained whilst in the course of golf, i.e. Karlsson and Casey

From my observations, the majority of golf injuries are repetitive stress or spinal related.  Neither are all that surprising to me for guys playing at the Tour level considering the  speeds and forces in play from the impacts of 1000's upon 1000's of practice and playing strokes. Then add in all the twisting and turning and rapid changes of direction of the spinal column.  And as more and more players approach the game athletically, the number of training injuries would likely be on the rise as well.

super_realist wrote:I'm a little suspicious about all the "injuries" people seem to be having. You get people in proper contact sports and far more athletic sports having fewer and less serious injuries over a career.
Is something fundamentally wrong with golf training/practice/conditioning, or are too many golfers embellishing their injuries to take full advantage of the benefit of medical exemptions?
Sounds a bit like tax avoidance, not illegal, but the benefits are there. Is something similar going on with injuries?

...except that's not really true is it. Not that some golfers aren't over-egging the pudding a bit maybe.

Kind of puts Nicklaus's streak of 146 consecutive Majors played in perspective. Every major from the 1962 Masters through the 1998 US Open. He never had a significant injury or illness during his playing days.

37.5 years.

IIRC, Sergio has the current streak, 70 straight majors.

It's totally true Navy, there are lots of players from different sports that are much tougher on the body than Golf, yet have had far fewer and far less serious injuries than golfers.
9C's injuries are laughable for a golfer, you'd be hard pressed for even perpetual sicknotes like Darren Anderton or that horrible little oik Jack Wilshire to have had the length of time out he, or Olazabal have had out.

super_realist wrote:.... 9C's injuries are laughable for a golfer....

Yeah, not to mention all those laughable surgeries to go along with them...

It's not the surgery that is ridiculous Robo, it's sustaining the injuries in the course of playing golf that is.
It's like a bowls or darts injury.

super_realist wrote:It's not the surgery that is ridiculous Robo, it's sustaining the injuries in the course of playing golf that is.
It's like a bowls or darts injury.

But of course you're correct as usual. Back pain/Injury is only the #1 most common golfer health problem and knee issues are only #6.  What was I thinking and what a wimp that 9c guy is, huh?  

http://golf.about.com/od/fitnesshealth/tp/commoninjuries.htm

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:Ok, so if there is genuine injury, then is there something wrong with the way these guys are preparing for tournaments?
Seems a disproportionately high number of long term injuries for such a type of activity, unless of course the injuries weren't sustained whilst in the course of golf, i.e. Karlsson and Casey

From my observations, the majority of golf injuries are repetitive stress or spinal related.  Neither are all that surprising to me for guys playing at the Tour level  considering the  speeds and forces in play from the impacts of 1000's upon 1000's of practice and playing strokes. Then add in all the twisting and turning and rapid changes of direction of the spinal column.  And as more and more players approach the game athletically, the number of training injuries would likely be on the rise as well.

Yep, I get that and it can be as simple as maybe one day overdoing it in the gym on certain reps before a long range session. Perhaps going for a long range session and skimping a bit on the warm up. All easily done, I'm just guessing at this but I think today's average tour pro spends much more time on the range and in the gym than the average pro of 30 years ago. Consequently, if pushing the body, the risk of injury goes up.

Do they need to do it? Well that to me is a question with a lot of answers. Contrast the lifestyles of the old big 3. Neither Nicklaus or Palmer needed to work as hard as Player. They all did things their way. People look now at marginal gains (thanks Mr Brailsford) and would say Player maximised his potential and mitigated his limitations through sheer hard work in the gym. The imponderable question would be what if Nicklaus had done the same?

The average tour pro these days take a lot from Players approach, yes many will say it was Tigers approach but Player started it...and probably got the balance right whereas Woods way way overdid it.