PGA Tour: Elementary Bubba Watson: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).Davis Love made the fairly predictable choices last Monday of Fowler, Holmes and Kuchar as his first three "picks" for Team USA and seemed pretty pleased with himself. But now comes the hard part. You don't have to study too hard to read what's between the lines of his pga.com interview, as he has his Holmes but not his, or anyone else's it seems, Watson:

2)."These are the three guys we want right now." Which translated means: We didn't want Bubba.

3).We're looking for "guys we think are going to handle this stage and fit in with the group, be ready to play under that pressure". Not have a career singles record of 0 - 3, eh Bubba? (The same as Spieth's Pres Cup / Ryder Cup singles record, as it happens, the answer to the age-old trivia question: What do Messrs DeLaet, McDowell and Leishman have in common?) And, with this somewhat cliquey group, perhaps Bubba doesn't "fit in"?

4)."Rickie had a big schedule, with a lot weighing on him and he missed the Tour Championship by half a point," said Davis.
Bubba, on the other hand, played the same number (8) events from July 1st thru last week, outplayed Rickie in the Olympics, has won on Tour this season and is ranked higher in the owgr's. Oh, and Bubba didn't miss the Tour Championship, he made it comfortably.

5).I don't think the Task Force did Love any favours breaking up the timing of his Captain's Picks. He's clearly dissed Bubba and made it very difficult for Love to go back and choose him now.
On the other hand, Bubba could win the Tour Championship - how would he then feel about playing on a Team that has made it obvious that they don't want him?

6).Big sympathies for Bubba here, but what will Capt Love do now?  
New blood? The punditry seems to think he'll choose a young gun, Berger or Thomas - and one would think Thomas's relationship with LoveIV and cliquey best buds with Fowler and Spieth will help him if he can only help himself in Atlanta.

Or an Old head? Possibly Furyk, but I'd go with Dufner, 6 wins against 2 losses in his Presidents/Ryder Cups career, including 2 - 0 in singles. And a proven partner for Zach Johnson. Not to mention that Dufner would take the situation in his stride,

7).The wTF four-tournament action resumes in Boise, Idaho, where it's just warming up again after some frigid temps.
You know the score: The Top 25 money winners in this series, who have not already earned their Tour card via the web.com regular season, earn Tour cards for the 2016/2017 season. And the more money they earn, the higher their status with the stragglers probably only getting to play two of the first eight events, and likely only 2 of the following 8 also.

8).This is the fourth year for wTF and the 25th man on the past three money-lists has earned no less than $42K and no more than $44.3K.
So let's say $45K should get you a card, which would mean DeChambeau, Gonzales, Lindheim and Etulain already have their cards assured.
European standings after one event:
T11: Norlander
T13: Gonzo
T24: Johnston
etc.

9).Gregory Bourdy is throwing his chapeau into the wTF ring this week, joining Andrew Johnston and Aphibarnrat as potential European Tour defectors. Easily forgotten that highlights of Bourdy's season included T18 finishes in the US Open and PGA Championship. Bon chance.

10).Congrat's to Dustin Johnson on his BMW win and he joins Rory and Tiger as three-time FedEx Cup Play Off winners.
Meanwhile, Bubba Watson must be thrilled he championed the US cause in Rio when the Jordans and Dustins stayed at home. It sounds as if Bubba embraced the whole experience, proud to represent USA on the world's second biggest international stage. But the good old USA is not embracing Bubba, despite his 8th-place finish, and that's a shame which might make potential candidates for the Tokyo golf action think twice about playing in four years' time.

GPB,
I only mentioned the comparitive form of Fowler and Watson because robo brought it up. And what's Casey got to do with it? He was dissed by Montgomerie but not in a position where he might have been called back in to the fold.

Westwood can provide the leadership (or at least experience) which he, Garcia and Harrington conspicuously failed to provide in 2008 - Faldo favour or not. And his RC record is second to not very many.

The thrust of my post is that the US Team have expressed their distaste for Watson, yet Love could still have to choose him. I'd've chosen all four, as I reckon it's plain daft to leave one person hanging, especially someone who could still play his way in, but has been dissed by all.

There may be a precedent for that but not that I recall.

Clarke's picks HAVE been scrutinized and poured over, but they were sensibly finalised a fair bit of time ago to allow the team to gel.
America in their backward wisdom still don't know who their 12th man is. Hardly best preparation.

Monty didn't have to pick Casey, he had a captains pick. Love doesn't have to pick Watson for the same reason, but unlike the Europe 2010 team, America don't have the luxury of lots of in form players to pick from. Garcia didn't play 2010 either by the way, so leaving Casey out wasn't the only omission you might look twice at. Monty was vindicated by his win, American captains haven't had that safety net for a long time.

Yes Kwini:

Decisions by the Euro Team are all justified.

And anything done by the American team shall be scrutinized.

I get it!!

=============

One definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again, and expect different results.

super_realist wrote:Clarke's picks HAVE been scrutinized and poured over, but they were sensibly finalised a fair bit of time ago to allow the team to gel.

FWIW, at this time, can you explain how is Clarke's team "gelling"?

I'm not talking about the European Team, I'm talking about the US Team.

Would you pick Bubba if he wins in Atlanta? If so, how would the call go?

"Hi Bubba, you're on the Team but none of us want you because we don't think you fit in. Not sure who you'll be playing with, might just be singles, a la Mark James."

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:Clarke's picks HAVE been scrutinized and poured over, but they were sensibly finalised a fair bit of time ago to allow the team to gel.

FWIW, at this time, can you explain how is Clarke's team "gelling"?

I didn't say they were, I said the team was decided a fair bit of time ago, but they're probably already playing ET practice rounds together and  I presume they've had plenty meetings already prior to the match and Clarke and his VC's have already had the team playing together, whereas the US team was only 66% known until last week and it's still not finalised. What chance does the last man have of feeling part of a team if he comes in on day 1 of the practice? It's no wonder America usually come second these days. They should pay an Ex European Captain to give them some pointers.

kwinigolfer wrote:I'm not talking about the European Team, I'm talking about the US Team.

We know that.  Everything that Clarke has done is PERFECT....and everything that Love has done should be scrutinized

kwinigolfer wrote:Would you pick Bubba if he wins in Atlanta? If so, how would the call go?

Yes, I would pick him.   and I think the Call would be "Welcome to the Team, Bubba"

Maybe I missed it, but DL-III has not said that Bubba has little to no chance of making the team.  Most of what I have read here and elsewhere (Shane Ryan at Golf Digest) is parsing words, interpreting what DL-III said and didn't say.   Seems like everyone here and Shane Ryan the same "Reading Between the Lines" Class in college.

I suspect DL-III talked to Bubba this past weekend and explained the facts to him.  The facts are that DL-III could only pick 3 players and therefore one of those four had to "snubbed".  Kuch and Holmes were no brainers as they played well at BMW and in a strange way, Fowler being out of the Tour Championship might have swayed DL-III to pick him because he is not playing the Tour Champ (duh!)

Yes Bubba was 9th in the standings.  But IMO, it was a 4 way tie for 9th in the standings as there was not much of a gap between 9th and 12th place.  The difference between 9th and 12th was 175 pts (4% difference).  The difference between 12th and 13th was 680 pts, 17%

I seriously doubt that he told Bubba that he has no chance of being on the team.

Unfortunately for Bubba, he got the short straw.  If Bubba got butt-hurt over the snub, hopefully it is a wake-up call for him (but I doubt it).

super_realist wrote:
I didn't say they were, I said the team was decided a fair bit of time ago, but they're probably already playing ET practice rounds together and  I presume they've had plenty meetings already prior to the match and Clarke and his VC's have already had the team playing together, whereas the US team was only 66% known until last week and it's still not finalised. What chance does the last man have of feeling part of a team if he comes in on day 1 of the practice? It's no wonder America usually come second these days. They should pay an Ex European Captain to give them some pointers.

Well you did say they have time to gel. Whatever the heck that means.

Its golf. This is not American Football where practice is critical for pass plays to be successful. I think the US team has made a side trip to Hazeltine this week during the off week. I am pretty sure that Fowler/Walker/Johnson/Sneds have been playing practice rounds together all year. Mickelson has had practice rounds with Spieth and Fowler and Walker and Johnson.

Ah, well, we agree about the joint 9th aspect; the very reason why I would've chosen all four.

I think LoveIII's direct quotes in 2)., 3)., and 4). above leave little to the imagination. Even Bubba's.

What kind of credibility would the Task Force had if DL-III made four picks this week?

18 months ago the TF adopted the Billy Horschel rule.

I don't remember any rhetoric that the Billy Horschel rule should be abandoned until about one month ago when it became readily apparent that the four Wildcards would be #9-#12 in the points rankings.

I think many of us don't question Bubba's non-pick. I'm actually surprised kwini does. Or does he just question the non-questioning?

Caseys non-pick was heavily debated on here. But as I remember Donald was picked in stead and he went 3-1-0.

I also think Knox's non-pick was debated on here.
But as super said, if Europe didn't have 6 rookies maybe LW wouldn't have been a lock.

pedro,
All I'm saying is that Love is in a corner, having told Bubba that three guys who finished behind him in the qualifying race are superior team-mates (in as many words) and more desirable blokes to tee it up with.
EDIT: "In a corner that is, if Bubba turns in an irresistible performance at East Lake.


As for the Task Force having any credibility, did it ever HAVE any credibility?

For one, I think Bubba would team well with JB. So they can be played in 1 or 2 sessions. Then Bubba can be benched till Sunday.

But it's still a risk to take as they probably won't allow him in the pingpong tournament.

That's the way to celebrate a T37!!

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/grill-room/photo-fowler-us-diver-dorman-get-olympic-tattoos

Maybe he'll have a similar tattoo for the number of RC wins?

kwinigolfer wrote:As for the Task Force having any credibility, did it ever HAVE any credibility?

Answering a question with a question:

Do you think that your opinions (and your European bretheren) might be biased?

Earlier I posted a definition of insanity. The Task Force was adopted to make changes so they were not doing the same over and over again.

Remember, the US portion of the Ryder Cup is owned by PGA of America and the PGAofA mainly did things their way. I don't think the players ever had much input on the operations the RC was run.

There was not much cohesiveness from one year to the next. No input from the players on who the Captains/Co-Captains. The players wanted some ownership of the RC from the PGAofA which has had a history of possessiveness.

There has been considerable snark on the term "Task Force". Whatever floats your boat.

William Shakespeare wrote:That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet

Would it be better if the TF was just called a "committee"? Its just words for crying out loud.

The best thing the TF has done is to establish a long term plan instead of starting over from scratch every two years.

pedro wrote:That's the way to celebrate a T37!!

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/grill-room/photo-fowler-us-diver-dorman-get-olympic-tattoos

Maybe he'll have a similar tattoo for the number of RC wins?

What a loser. Imagine getting a tattoo like that when you stunk the place out. Just strengthens my opinion that Fowler is a brainless moron. It's like someone getting a Benidorm Tattoo for the two weeks they were there. I suppose all the rings could be interpreted as the number of medals or Ryder Cup points he has.

Tim Rosaforte on Golf Central is reporting that Bubba Watson is playing Hazeltine this weekend with the 11 RC players.

And apparently Bubba is the favorite to get the last pick.

GPB wrote:Tim Rosaforte on Golf Central is reporting that Bubba Watson is playing Hazeltine this weekend with the 11 RC players.

And apparently Bubba is the favorite to get the last pick.

Hope he's bringing gummy bears...at least to 'gel'..
And remembers to donate really hard to DL3's favorite charity...

Just goes to show that America never learn. When will they ever suss the Ryder Cup and what being a team means? If they had any brain cells they would have named 4 players at once, not leave someone hanging on.
If America win, it will be due to a European Malaisse or too little experience rather than inspired play. They just don't get international team sports do they?

super_realist wrote:
If America win, it will be due to a European Malaisse or too little experience rather than inspired play. They just don't get international team sports do they?

Of course that will be the reason.

The reason won't be because USA played well....It will be because Europe played poorly.

Just like 2008.

They don't exactly have recent history of unity or a tight knit team do they?

They could win because Europe play poorly of course or they might even play well but given their captain and laughable backroom staff do you think that likely, and do you really see America winning because all the players are pulling in the same direction to beat a rival opponent who have a proven formula?

In every respect they are almost a perfect analogue for the England football team

The lesson from 2008 was "Nick Faldo".

Anyways, I just think Bubbas trip to Hazeltine is a sham. Just a way for DL3 to show the world they gave him the chance when in fact the decision is already made: Bubba is toast no matter what (bar winning the TC perhaps).

I just don't think you can ever give credit where credit it due.

From what I have read here (and from other Euro bloggers, not here) Faldo is the reason why the Euros lost in 2008.

Europeans can't seem to give credit to the 2008 American team.

pedro wrote:The lesson from 2008 was "Nick Faldo".

ahem!!

Didn't Garcia and others throw Faldo under the bus, like Phil did with Watson?

I think it was pretty evident to see that none of the Euro stalwarts delivered, nor played with any nerve, reportedly due to bad team room karma. And facing a US team with a sensible captain AND NO TIGER WOODS, it was a done deal.

pedro wrote:Didn't Garcia and others throw Faldo under the bus, like Phil did with Watson?

I think it was pretty evident to see that none of the Euro stalwarts delivered, nor played with any nerve, reportedly due to bad team room karma. And facing a US team with a sensible captain AND NO TIGER WOODS, it was a done deal.

Naturally, its all Faldo's fault and no credit should go to the Americans.

~~~SMH~~~

Europe lost 2008 because the USA were better. Why would anyone claim differently? It is a total fallacy that the captain really makes any difference.

I really hated DC's picks. Stank of cronyism.
.

Well, usually the better team wins.. The question is just why they're better.

The 2016 US RC team is basically the same that lost last time around. But now they claim they can win because they have a 'game plan', whatever that means. So does the game plan have anything to do with the captain? Of course it does. And my point is that Faldo didn't have a 'game plan' in 2008, at least it wasn't a good one.

pedro wrote:Well, usually the better team wins.. The question is just why they're better.

and from your Point of View, Faldo was at fault in 2008. He made the Euro Team worse. No credit should go to Holmes, Campbell, Weekley, Mickelson, Kim, Stricker etc.

kwinigolfer wrote:
robo,
Can't find a stretch over the past six months when Rickie outplayed Bubba, pretty much a wash - whatever the measurement is.

kwini... My intent is not to build up Fowler... I thought he'd get the pick, but doubtful he would have from me. The point is more about Bubba.. just not much there in the last 4-6 months that screams "must pick" to me. Playing wise... Team wise... Or expectations of success wise.

Yes, Faldo was partly at fault, just as T.Watson was last time, hence the Task Force. (Of course they don't hit the shots but don't give me that.)

GPB,
I think I'm the only person on this thread to mention Azinger . . . . . . . .

Who knows? I just think the US have potentially dug themselves a hole and LoveIII's ludicrous burblings didn't help him. It's been obvious for six months (or more) he's been looking for an excuse to pick Justin Thomas, but Doubting hasn't delivered.

pedro wrote:Well, usually the better team wins..

A smart arse response but clearly I mean the US had the better players and those players played better. Nothing to do with Faldo.

Where did the Tiger buying Taylormade BS come from? Earlier today it was a joke and now some people seem to be taking it at least semi seriously.

ICYMI:

Ryo Ishikawa shot a first round 63 to lead the Ana Open on the Japanese Tour. He is 4 under through 6 holes in Round 2. He is currently leading by 3 shots over Brendon Jones of Australia.

Ryo has finished 1st and 2nd in his last two starts on the Japan Tour.

GPB wrote:

pedro wrote:Didn't Garcia and others throw Faldo under the bus, like Phil did with Watson?

I think it was pretty evident to see that none of the Euro stalwarts delivered, nor played with any nerve, reportedly due to bad team room karma. And facing a US team with a sensible captain AND NO TIGER WOODS, it was a done deal.

Naturally, its all Faldo's fault and no credit should go to the Americans.

~~~SMH~~~

OK, I'll bite, Yes, the Americans played well enough to garner enough points, but compare the camaraderie and preparation of Faldo in that event and it's pretty clear that was a large contribution to the European poor show. Ask Mickelson if the captaincy of Watson at Gleneagles was a factor and I'm pretty sure he'll say yes, rather than first give credit to the Europeans. You need to stop looking at things like Mac for a change. There are a multitude of reasons for the European failure that weekend, just as there are multiple reasons for all the American defeats in the last 20 years.
Stop taking everything so literally and so defensively.

Forgive my ignorance...

Does the US "pick" process have to leave the final place to the last minute or could DL have got all 4 done and dusted at the one time?

I guess he can do what he wants even if his mind is already made up. But given this is the first time with delayed picks he's probably wise sticking to the original 'plan'.

GPB wrote:ICYMI:

Ryo Ishikawa shot a first round 63 to lead the Ana Open on the Japanese Tour.  He is 4 under through 6 holes in Round 2.  He is currently leading by 3 shots over Brendon Jones of Australia.

Ryo has finished 1st and 2nd in his last two starts on the Japan Tour.

Here's hoping that sort of form continues and he realises his undoubted ability in the future.

Good round yesterday from Andrew Johnston. With 5 out of, potentially, 16 rounds played in the wTF's, these Europeans are projected in qualifying positions:
14th: Johnson
21st: Gonzo
22nd: Norlander
24th: Owen
Dornoch's Jimmy Gunn up to 33rd.

Early days yet, of course.

Thought this was interesting:

http://www.pgatour.com/fedexcup/2016/09/12/scenarios-tour-championship.html

McLaren wrote:Europe lost 2008 because the USA were better.  Why would anyone claim differently?  It is a total fallacy that the captain really makes any difference.

I really hated DC's picks.  Stank of cronyism.  
.

I really do believe captains make at least SOME difference, but just how much I'm not sure.

In 2014 the tables got turned on Watson, but IMO that wasn't so much him other than maybe a case of an old school captain not knowing how to properly kiss Phil's arse. So if that's on Watson, then so be it because I'm convinced the Phil/Tom riff was at least 1/2 of any "off course" reason why the USA might have lost in 2014. IMO the other off course issue was something the captain had no control over. Three of the USA's best players not being available to play. Obviously a healthy Tiger missing, but maybe moreso Dustin Johnson (3-0-0 in 2012) out due to personal reasons and Jason Dufner (3-1-0 in 2012) out with injury. Losing those 3 players in effect left Watson with captains picks of Keegan, Webb and Hunner who went a combined 2-5-2.

Now don't get me wrong.... IMO the primary reason the USA got beat in 2014 is EURO's played better. PERIOD. Especially their magnificent performance in dominating the Saturday afternoon foursomes, in effect putting it away after the USA looked like they might have gained the momentum that morning in the fourballs.

I, too, find the obsession with the "captains" a bit over the top.

I mean we're losing to "Europe" ... it's not like it's Iceland!

Agree robo, I think the Captain sets the tone and helps create the camaraderie that Europe, at least, needs to perform at our best.
Interesting that an English Captain hasn't won the Ryder Cup since 1987!

I think one thing Watson got wrong right up front was cowtowing to Simpson's moronic lobbying; he could surely have done better than Webb. But there'll always be players who can't qualify for one reason or another, probably Alex Noren fits that bill this year? (And, if Europe loses, we can always blame Knox's failure to sign up in time, plus Poulter's and Casey's absences.)

Beef slicing his way to the top of the Boise leaderboard.

kwinigolfer wrote:....And, if Europe loses, we can always blame Knox's failure to sign up in time, plus Poulter's and Casey's absences.)

Yep... of course in 20-20 hindsight there's always reasons why someone lost, but IMO it's about 95% on the players. Now if the Love can find some formula to loosen this team up and not be so terrified of losing... then all credit to him. On paper... I still think this USA team looks like they should probably win this thing like 17-11 or 16-12.... but knowing how they tighten up, I still give the Euro's the edge.

Mac, how were DC's picks cronyism? We've already been through how picking Knox or Kjeldsen would have overloaded the number of debutants. Six is already too many. Why would he pick more? OK, It's only America, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

Johnston in with a 63 and an early two-stroke lead; the bar staff at North Middx had better keep an eye on this.
Greg Owen also in with a fine round.

Robo, the US hasn't won with Woods on the team since 1999. His absence had nothing to do with it, au contraire. And you can not rewind or fast forward Dustin Johnson, just as we can't with Poulter, McDowell, Donald, or Westwood when he slumped to #200, etc.
The US are always better on paper, and should theoretically always win 16-12, with or without DJ or TW, yet they don't convert. It has nothing to do with this or that player missing, but moreso who's actually IN the team and how they gel, as well as the captaining/game plan. As said a gazillion times it's team match play and you can't compare to individual strokeplay. Iceland didn't beat England because they were better players but because they were cleverer and smarter.

Its Match Play. Matches conducted over 18 holes.

Its like walking into a casino and playing Craps. You might win in the short term but eventually the casino is going to win.

Every major change in the format has been to favorable to the European.

Adding Europe
The current format of 2 sessions of Four ball (4 matches) 2 sessions of Foursome (4 matches) and 12 singles.

I would like to see at least 5 matches in the first four sessions.