Aviva Premiership - Round 4

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Table

POS		TEAM			-W-		-D-		-L-		-PF-		-PA-		-DIFF-		-TF-		-TA-		-TB-		-LB-		-PTS-
1		Bath Rugby		3		3		0		0		##		41		72		12		6		2		0		14
2		Saracens		3		3		0		0		96		28		68		11		1		2		0		14
3		Wasps		3		3		0		0		##		64		65		17		7		2		0		14
4		Leicester Tigers		3		2		0		1		74		78		-4		8		9		1		0		9
5		Gloucester Rugby		3		1		1		1		80		74		6		8		10		1		1		8
6		Northampton Saints		3		1		0		2		58		55		3		6		3		1		1		6
7		Exeter Chiefs		3		1		0		2		69		84		-15		8		11		1		1		6
8		Sale Sharks		3		1		0		2		49		55		-6		5		4		0		1		5
9		Newcastle Falcons		3		1		0		2		37		89		-52		3		11		0		1		5
10		Harlequins		3		1		0		2		56		74		-18		6		9		0		0		4
11		Worcester Warriors		3		0		1		2		48		95		-47		6		10		0		0		2
12		Bristol Rugby		3		0		0		3		51		123		-72		7		16		0		1		1

Fixtures

Friday September 21

19:45 Bristol Rugby v Exeter Chiefs BT SPORT
Referee: Tom Foley (21st Premiership game)
Assistant Referees: Greg MacDonald & Paul Dix
TMO: Sean Davey

Exeter travel to Ashton Gate for the first meeting between these two sides since the 2010 playoff final. Bristol will have been shocked by the size of the thumping they received last week, though much better teams than them have struggled when Wasps are in full flight. The longer the newly promoted team go without winning, the harder it gets as nerves set in. This though will probably not be that elusive first win. Exeter, off the back of their own first win of the season in Round 3, should have far too much grunt, skill and application for Andy Robinson’s team.


Saturday September 22

15:00 Harlequins v Saracens
Referee: Craig Maxwell-Keys (19th Premiership game)
Assistant Referees: Nigel Carrick & Phil Watters
TMO: David Grashoff

Quins are struggling for any sort of form, so perversely a visit from reigning champions could be exactly what they need. No-one expects anything from them, so they can adopt a siege mentality and just concentrate on their basics. Mark McCall has been rotating players already, and if Kruis is fit may take the opportunity to give Itoje a rest. He has intimated that Owen Farrell should be fit enough to play some part in proceedings, which will be a huge relief to Eddie Jones. It is hard to see anything other than the Saracens juggernaut continuing on it’s merry way.


15:00 Worcester Warriors v Sale Sharks
Referee: JP Doyle (116th Premiership game)
Assistant Referees: Greg Garner & Roy Maybank
TMO: David Rose

Like Bristol, Worcester are still seeking a first win. With a Sale team that is not at it’s best travelling down the M6/M5 they have every chance to breaking their season’s duck today and perhaps moving a spot or two up the table. Sale have injury concerns at 10, issues with their set-piece. Their game will be built on a ferocious defence but will need their goal kickers to be on form.


15:00 Gloucester Rugby v Newcastle Falcons
Dean Richards (88th Premiership game)
Assistant Referees: Andrew Jackson & Jonathan Healy
TMO: David Sainsbury

It seems rather unfair that this game will be reffed by the visitors DoR . We still do not know what to expect from the home team, consistent only in their inconsistency. Falcons will be hurting after the last two weeks. The positives from last weekend were that their defence kept Tigers well shackled. However they had so many opportunities to take any reffing decisions out of the equation that they can blame no-one but themselves for the defeat. The first 15 minutes had surely provided a template for how they could win – but they stopped playing like that. They were inept at the breakdown and butchered any number of chances. They need to play much better if they are to win. Gloucester need to show the same character they have in the last 120 minutes of rugby. If this is aligned to the flair the demonstrated in the first 40 minutes of the season it could be another long day for poor Falcon’s fans.


15:00 Northampton Saints v Wasps BT SPORT
Referee: Luke Pearce (52nd Premiership game)
Assistant Referees: Steve Lee & Andy Watson
TMO: Rowan Kitt

Fascinating game. Saints will surely try to make it an arm wrestle, of the sort that worked for so long against Saracens. I am looking forward to seeing how the two back rows match up. If his tight five can hold their own, Joe Simpson (assuming Robson still injured) can be expected to try and capitalise on any lack of pace in the Saints team, especially around the fringes. Saints will surely look at sending their big runners down the 10/12 channel.



Sunday September 23

15:00 Leicester Tigers v Bath Rugby BT SPORT
Referee: Matthew Carley (46th Premiership game)
Assistant Referees: Tim Wigglesworth & Gareth Copsey
TMO: Trevor Fisher

To describe Leicester as lacklustre would be kind. They have started all three games so far this season poorly and had to play catch up rugby. They have to be better than they have been, but are they capable of that atm? Too often in recent seasons Bath have come to Welford Road and looked to flex their muscles rather than their brain. Such tactics would be dumb in the extreme. Play as they have done in attack this season and Tigers shaky defence could be conceding yet another TBP.

Sale (v Worcester)

15. Byron McGuigan, 14. Nev Edwards, 13. Will Addison, 12. Johnny Leota, 11. Paolo Odogwu, 10. AJ MacGinty, 9. Peter Stringer, 1. Eifion Lewis-Roberts, 2. Neil Briggs, 3. Kieran Longbottom, 4. Bryn Evans, 5. Jonathan Mills, 6. Cameron Neild, 7. David Seymour, 8. Josh Beaumont (c)

Replacements: 16. Ross Harrison, 17. Halani Aulika, 18. Andrei Ostrikov, 19. Laurence Pearce, 20. Magnus Lund, 21. Mike Phillips, 22. Dan Mugford, 23. Nick Scott

Gloucester Rugby (v Falcons):

15. Tom Marshall; 14. Charlie Sharples, 13. Matt Scott, 12. Mark Atkinson, 11. Henry Purdy; 10. Billy Burns, 9. Willi Heinz (capt); 1. Paddy McAllister, 2. Richard Hibbard, 3. John Afoa; 4. Tom Savage, 5. Mariano Galarza; 6. Ross Moriarty, 7. Jacob Rowan, 8. Ben Morgan

Replacements:

16. Darren Dawidiuk, 17. Yann Thomas, 18. Paul Doran-Jones, 19. Joe Latta, 20. Gareth Evans, 21. Greig Laidlaw, 22. James Hook, 23. Billy Twelvetrees

Newcastle Falcons team to face Gloucester (Saturday, 3pm, Kingsholm):

15 Simon Hammersley
14 Alex Tait
13 Dominic Waldouck
12 Juan Pablo Socino
11 Sinoti Sinoti
10 Mike Delany
9 Sonatane Takulua
1 Rob Vickers
2 Scott Lawson
3 Jon Welsh
4 Calum Green
5 Evan Olmstead
6 Mark Wilson
7 Will Welch (captain)
8 Ally Hogg

Replacements

16 Ben Sowrey
17 Alex Rogers
18 Paddy Ryan
19 Will Witty
20 Daniel Temm
21 Michael Young
22 Joel Hodgson
23 Belisario Agulla


Returnee David Wilson not fit enough to play.

NORTHAMPTON SAINTS TEAM TO PLAY WASPS
Aviva Premiership Round 4
Franklin’s Gardens
Saturday, September 24th, 2016
Kick off 3:00pm
15 Ben Foden
14 Ken Pisi
13 George Pisi
12 Harry Mallinder
11 George North
10 Stephen Myler
9 Nic Groom
1 Alex Waller
2 Mikey Haywood
3 Kieran Brookes
4 Courtney Lawes
5 Sam Dickinson
6 Tom Wood (capt)
7 Jamie Gibson
8 Louis Picamoles

16 Charlie Clare
17 Campese Ma’afu
18 Paul Hill
19 Michael Paterson
20 Teimana Harrison
21 Tom Kessell
22 Rory Hutchinson
23 Ahsee Tuala


Hartley missing again. Injury?

Wasps team to play Northampton Saints

15. Rob Miller
14. Christian Wade
13. Elliot Daly
12. Jimmy Gopperth
11. Josh Bassett
10. Danny Cipriani
9. Joe Simpson
1. Matt Mullan
2. Tommy Taylor
3. Jake Cooper-Woolley
4. Matt Symons
5. James Gaskell ©
6. Sam Jones
7. Guy Thompson
8. Nathan Hughes

Replacements

16. Ashley Johnson
17. Simon McIntyre
18. Marty Moore
19. Kearnan Myall
20. Thomas Young
21. Dan Robson
22. Kyle Eastmond
23. Nick De Luca

Unavailable for selection through injury:

Forwards – James Haskell, Joe Launchbury,

Backs –Kurtley Beale, Alapati Leiua, Brendan Macken, Frank Halai

Going to be hard for Harrison to make a case for the England 7 shirt if he continues to be on the bench. (Last week was his first start?)

LondonTiger wrote:I am sad to see Tait dropped. He was poor against Glaws, but in last two matches been one of our better players, let down by the lazy feckers unwilling to get back and provide options. Our wing defence will need to improve markedly as I cannot see TV making the try saving tackles Tait has.

His tackling is very good. However, ball in hand he has been very poor. His kicking swinging between precise and aimless and running with the ball it's the same predictable arc into contact every time. He needs to remember how to step and draw defenders.

LondonTiger wrote:Wasps team to play Northampton Saints

15. Rob Miller
14. Christian Wade                                                                                    
13. Elliot Daly
12. Jimmy Gopperth
11. Josh Bassett
10. Danny Cipriani
9. Joe Simpson
1. Matt Mullan
2. Tommy Taylor
3. Jake Cooper-Woolley
4. Matt Symons
5. James Gaskell ©
6. Sam Jones
7. Guy Thompson
8. Nathan Hughes

Replacements

16. Ashley Johnson
17. Simon McIntyre
18. Marty Moore
19. Kearnan Myall
20. Thomas Young
21. Dan Robson
22. Kyle Eastmond
23. Nick De Luca

Unavailable for selection through injury:

Forwards – James Haskell, Joe Launchbury,

Backs –Kurtley Beale, Alapati Leiua, Brendan Macken, Frank Halai

Everyone on this forum who is not from Scotland will really not appreciate just how f***ing bizarre that looks.

LondonTiger wrote:Gloucester Rugby (v Falcons):

15. Tom Marshall; 14. Charlie Sharples, 13. Matt Scott, 12. Mark Atkinson, 11. Henry Purdy; 10. Billy Burns, 9. Willi Heinz (capt); 1. Paddy McAllister, 2. Richard Hibbard, 3. John Afoa; 4. Tom Savage, 5. Mariano Galarza; 6. Ross Moriarty, 7. Jacob Rowan, 8. Ben Morgan

Replacements:

16. Darren Dawidiuk, 17. Yann Thomas, 18. Paul Doran-Jones, 19. Joe Latta, 20. Gareth Evans, 21. Greig Laidlaw, 22. James Hook, 23. Billy Twelvetrees

Laidlaw getting a wee rest?

formerly known as Sam wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:I am sad to see Tait dropped. He was poor against Glaws, but in last two matches been one of our better players, let down by the lazy feckers unwilling to get back and provide options. Our wing defence will need to improve markedly as I cannot see TV making the try saving tackles Tait has.

His tackling is very good. However, ball in hand he has been very poor. His kicking swinging between precise and aimless and running with the ball it's the same predictable arc into contact every time. He needs to remember how to step and draw defenders.

The biggest problem for him running the ball back has been the complete lack of support. Watching the Wasps game from the Clubhpuse end made that so clear. You could see the space, as coudl Tait but our players were not coming back and he was faced by a wall of Wasps. Kicking was therefore the only option available to him.

LondonTiger wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:I am sad to see Tait dropped. He was poor against Glaws, but in last two matches been one of our better players, let down by the lazy feckers unwilling to get back and provide options. Our wing defence will need to improve markedly as I cannot see TV making the try saving tackles Tait has.

His tackling is very good. However, ball in hand he has been very poor. His kicking swinging between precise and aimless and running with the ball it's the same predictable arc into contact every time. He needs to remember how to step and draw defenders.

The biggest problem for him running the ball back has been the complete lack of support. Watching the Wasps game from the Clubhpuse end made that so clear. You could see the space, as coudl Tait but our players were not coming back and he was faced by a wall of Wasps. Kicking was therefore the only option available to him.

Agreed. I was thinking more of when he comes into the line. He takes the ball out the back from Burns fairly flat then runs as sideways as he does forward and into contact. Largely useless but does give the opposition a potential turnover every time.

The whole squad has looked lethargic. Only JPP and Burns in the backline (probably Harrison as well) look enthused to be there. I'd like Smith to be included because he at least is 100% committed which is more than can be said for our other centres.

propdavid_london wrote:Quins side for the weekend -  Not sure whats happened to NEv, Ward is covering back row from bench.  Hopper starting - Jeez!

15. Mike Brown
14. Marland Yarde
13. Matt Hopper
12. Jamie Roberts
11. Tim Visser
10. Tim Swiel
9. Danny Care (C)

1. Joe Marler
2. Rob Buchanan
3. Will Collier
4. George Merrick
5. James Horwill
6. Chris Robshaw
7. Luke Wallace
8. James Chisholm

16. Joe Gray
17. Mark Lambert
18. Kyle Sinckler
19. Sam Twomey
20. Dave Ward
21. Karl Dickson
22. Ruaridh Jackson
23. Alofa Alofa

Lots of changes there, can't tell if it's because of form, injuries or both though.

Hopper coming in fills me with dread, Swiel starting seems bizarre when you have your international 10 on the bench, Charlie Walker has looked better then all our other wingers so far but can't make the team. All seems pretty odd to me.

The forwards look good though, great to see Chisholm getting a chance to start in such a big game, his abrasiveness will be needed. For the love of god though why is Buchanan even in the team? He's been terrible in the lineout, can't take all the blame but must take enough to be dropped surely. Instead we have Ward as flanker cover, I guess Clifford is injured along with our two other 8's?

yappysnap wrote:...

The forwards look good though, great to see Chisholm getting a chance to start in such a big game, his abrasiveness will be needed. For the love of god though why is Buchanan even in the team? He's been terrible in the lineout, can't take all the blame but must take enough to be dropped surely. Instead we have Ward as flanker cover, I guess Clifford is injured along with our two other 8's?

On another thread someone mentioned that apparently hes out for 10 weeks following an ankle op. Fantastic timing for England and Quins..

lostinwales wrote:

yappysnap wrote:...

The forwards look good though, great to see Chisholm getting a chance to start in such a big game, his abrasiveness will be needed. For the love of god though why is Buchanan even in the team? He's been terrible in the lineout, can't take all the blame but must take enough to be dropped surely. Instead we have Ward as flanker cover, I guess Clifford is injured along with our two other 8's?

On another thread someone mentioned that apparently hes out for 10 weeks following an ankle op. Fantastic timing for England and Quins..

There's a plethora or English qualified backrow options to choose from. Eddie isn't short of options at 6, 7 or 8.

LondonTiger wrote:Going to be hard for Harrison to make a case for the England 7 shirt if he continues to be on the bench. (Last week was his first start?)

Harrison's started the last 2 games and done okay but in fairness Gibson has played well when he's come on in the last 2 games as well. Wood looks to be sticking to 6 so far, that may change once Clark is match fit.

Can't remember for sure but think JM stated Hartley had a back spasm issue when interviewed before the game last week. Said he expected him to be good to go this weekend but obviously not there yet.

LondonTiger wrote:Like Quins, Sarries have a hooker covering back row on the bench.

I'm surprised that with his backrow experience Brits isn't on the bench covering 6/7/8 with George starting at 2?

formerly known as Sam wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

yappysnap wrote:...

The forwards look good though, great to see Chisholm getting a chance to start in such a big game, his abrasiveness will be needed. For the love of god though why is Buchanan even in the team? He's been terrible in the lineout, can't take all the blame but must take enough to be dropped surely. Instead we have Ward as flanker cover, I guess Clifford is injured along with our two other 8's?

On another thread someone mentioned that apparently hes out for 10 weeks following an ankle op. Fantastic timing for England and Quins..

There's a plethora or English qualified backrow options to choose from. Eddie isn't short of options at 6, 7 or 8.

Lots of options but not sure how many are putting their hands up. And they have a very tough act to follow.

yappysnap wrote:

propdavid_london wrote:Quins side for the weekend -  Not sure whats happened to NEv, Ward is covering back row from bench.  Hopper starting - Jeez!

15. Mike Brown
14. Marland Yarde
13. Matt Hopper
12. Jamie Roberts
11. Tim Visser
10. Tim Swiel
9. Danny Care (C)

1. Joe Marler
2. Rob Buchanan
3. Will Collier
4. George Merrick
5. James Horwill
6. Chris Robshaw
7. Luke Wallace
8. James Chisholm

16. Joe Gray
17. Mark Lambert
18. Kyle Sinckler
19. Sam Twomey
20. Dave Ward
21. Karl Dickson
22. Ruaridh Jackson
23. Alofa Alofa

Lots of changes there, can't tell if it's because of form, injuries or both though.

Hopper coming in fills me with dread, Swiel starting seems bizarre when you have your international 10 on the bench, Charlie Walker has looked better then all our other wingers so far but can't make the team. All seems pretty odd to me.

The forwards look good though, great to see Chisholm getting a chance to start in such a big game, his abrasiveness will be needed. For the love of god though why is Buchanan even in the team? He's been terrible in the lineout, can't take all the blame but must take enough to be dropped surely. Instead we have Ward as flanker cover, I guess Clifford is injured along with our two other 8's?

To be fair, all of our hookers are consistently Poopie at throwing

Gray is meant to be the thrower isn't he? And Ward brings a lot of other positives. I'd have liked Ward starting with Gray on the bench, then Ward going to the backrow if needed.

How have Care's box kick's been this season?

I remember last year at Wembley, his kicking was atrocious. Gave Goode so much time and space to counter attack.

If your tactical kicking is wayward Sarries will capitalise.

B91212 I would assume George is on the bench to give both him and Brits equal gametime. I do think Sarries' strongest hooker is George now though. I thought that you (Saints) physically pummelled Brits. George is also bigger than Brits. Helps in physical confontations.

I would have also started George to put the squeeze on the Quins frontrow.

beshocked wrote:How have Care's box kick's been this season?

I remember last year at Wembley, his kicking was atrocious. Gave Goode so much time and space to counter attack.

If your tactical kicking is wayward Sarries will capitalise.

B91212 I would assume George is on the bench to give both him and Brits equal gametime. I do think Sarries' strongest hooker is George now though. I thought that you (Saints) physically pummelled Brits. George is also bigger than Brits. Helps in physical confontations.

I would have also started George to put the squeeze on the Quins frontrow.

Care has actually been playing pretty well in a misfiring squad in my opinion. Box kicks generally ok but not perfect.

Our stand out players on form are still Walker and Wallace. Wallace is pulling up trees, his workrate, line speed, tackling and breakdown work has been very good, I've have him on the bench for England in fact. Walker isn't just a great finisher, he creates tries from nothing, always wins a 1v1....it's a crime he's not starting for us...although Yarde has been pretty good and Visser while off form is proven I suppose.

I'm not a coach basher, the players have to perform, but the malaise that has inflicted us since CoS announced his departure smacks of a mental problem in the team. We have a great squad of players, but something is wrong with the collective, and that has to be the responsibility of the management.

Chiefs by 17
Quins by 4
Worcester by 5
Gloucester by 9
Wasps by 11
Tigers by 6

A couple of unlikely calls there for sure, particularly with Quins, Wasps and Leicester winning.

Hopefully the Welford Road crowd can inspire something, I won't be able to catch the match until Monday so I'm going to be boorishly running around confiscating phones on Sunday.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

A couple of years ago we had no attacking game plan and tried to just out muscle the opposition. Currently we seem to have a game plan in attack but the individual error count is massive.

I agree with that but the net result of the new ambition is just as bad, if not worse as it was then. In the most difficult matches over the last 14 months the attack has been conceding as many points as it has been scoring.

I'm not really pessimistic - I feel that when we finally get to see an established centre pairing (I will probably wet myself when I first see Toomua and Manu line up together) things will improve dramatically. Until then I'm more than happy to see 80 minutes of up the jumper stuff with single digit scores.

I'm edging Saints to take the sting out of Wasps.

I think Launchbury not playing could be the deciding factor against what should be a reasonably confident Saints who should have learn't a lot from last week.....Young Harry is starting with Myler at 10.

Should be a great game.

I dunno Fuzzy. I like some muscular stuff but that season when we had no attack every game almost felt like a loss. We were so dire even in victory it was hard to watch. Sure the new attack is frustrating but at the same time it's better than no attack.

As expected Bris lose to Exeter.

Exeter played well in patches but will come away thinking they left a LOT of points on the field in that game.

Bris will be pleased with the late tries, in particular some of the handling for them.

For Exeter that's the second week in a row where they've dominated the first half against a physically weaker side, got out to a lead but then went off the pace and conceded tries.

They have to be worried about what happens when A they can't bully a team in the tight and B they go in to a second half less then 20 points up.

Exeter will be fine, they'll find a way.

Bristol on the other hand look like they have serious defensive issues.  I know they've played two top sides, but that is 111 points conceded in two games.  That is relegation form.

Bristol have major onfield organisational issue. This means that while they have some talented attacking it relies too much on individual talented, whilst defensive they are shocking.

After the first few games I thought Bristol would grow into the premiership, now I'm less sure. Too many players out of their depth and physically they can't cope. They need to sign a few forwards quickly - hopefully they'll be more effective than Crane !

LondonTiger wrote:Bristol have major onfield organisational issue. This means that while they have some talented attacking it relies too much on individual talented, whilst defensive they are shocking.

Very true. Not sure what qualifications Jonathan Thomas has to be the defense coach, didn't he only retire a year ago?

offload wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Bristol have major onfield organisational issue. This means that while they have some talented attacking it relies too much on individual talented, whilst defensive they are shocking.

Very true.  Not sure what qualifications Jonathan Thomas has to be the defense coach, didn't he only retire a year ago?

Yea what sort of club automatically puts one of their players straight into the defence coach role in top level rugby...

So looking at the results for Bris after their first game, would people say they played a lot better against Quins? Or Quins were poor enough to make them look very competitive?

sad_gimp wrote:

I'm not a coach basher, the players have to perform, but the malaise that has inflicted us since CoS announced his departure smacks of a mental problem in the team. We have a great squad of players, but something is wrong with the collective, and that has to be the responsibility of the management.

I think it's very difficult when a number two coach has to step up. Often he's too entrenched in the past and the team takes time to see him differently. Perhaps Quins should have looked outside to get a fresh coaching start, particularly when you consider how strong a character they were replacing.

yappysnap wrote:So looking at the results for Bris after their first game, would people say they played a lot better against Quins? Or Quins were poor enough to make them look very competitive?

First game of the season can be a bit of a lottery especially when a team changes as much of their squad as Bristol did. Quins wouldn't have had any video analysis of the Bristol team with Pisi at 10 or those centres in tandem. That element of surprise disappeared after that first game and the huge issues with their defence, no drift and too slow a rush, mean they are getting picked apart.

I think Bristol have majorly underestimated the size of the task.  The Premiership is getting stronger year on year and they look ill equipped to compete to me.  I don't rate Robinson as a DoR and question whether he is the man to keep them up this year.

Bristol don't actually have a bad team, on paper it looks better than say, Falcons team (sorry lads). Robinson has never been a great coach though has he.

kingelderfield wrote:I'm edging Saints to take the sting out of Wasps.

I think Launchbury not playing could be the deciding factor against what should be a reasonably confident Saints who should have learn't a lot from last week.....Young Harry is starting with Myler at 10.

Should be a great game.  

Yeh, but without Saints only form back this season, Burrell who has been consistently good, although not exceptional. I assume he must be injured as he is not even on the bench.

Good to see Dickinson playing in lieu of Patterson and Foden back, but what has happened to Nic Groom, he has looked excellent so far this season without being given a start.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:I'm edging Saints to take the sting out of Wasps.

I think Launchbury not playing could be the deciding factor against what should be a reasonably confident Saints who should have learn't a lot from last week.....Young Harry is starting with Myler at 10.

Should be a great game.  

Yeh, but without Saints only form back this season, Burrell who has been consistently good, although not exceptional. I assume he must be injured as he is not even on the bench.

Good to see Dickinson playing in lieu of Patterson and Foden back, but what has happened to Nic Groom, he has looked excellent so far this season without being given a start.

I'm sure Burrell is in the midst of the concussion protocols. He seemed knocked cold against Sarecens last week. Don't know why no Groom.

I just looked at Bristol's start of the season schedule. Quins (barely lost), then Saints, Wasps, Exeter. Not an easy road for a newly promoted club. It looks to me they have the players to compete, but it will be very hard to get that first win with that kind of schedule to start the season. They certainly don't seemed under manned in the way of London Welsh. The league does seem better than ever which will certainly make their road more difficult.

yappysnap wrote:As expected Bris lose to Exeter.

Exeter played well in patches but will come away thinking they left a LOT of points on the field in that game.

Bris will be pleased with the late tries, in particular some of the handling for them.

For Exeter that's the second week in a row where they've dominated the first half against a physically weaker side, got out to a lead but then went off the pace and conceded tries.

They have to be worried about what happens when A they can't bully a team in the tight and B they go in to a second half less then 20 points up.

Yes annoying - I had Chiefs to win by 33 and looked good just after half time ...

Is this where we turn our season around?

Saracens 0, Quins 17 after 21. Visser and Walker over. Marler off concussed early doors so Lambert is going to have to do nearly 80 mins

Did anyone else think Foden was milking that collision - and how wasn't it a knock-on before anyway?

Yeah he completely milked it, he even looked over to the tj

What's happening with sarries, it's like they've lost all their bite

North on the scoresheet again and people are still questioning him?

mikey_dragon wrote:North on the scoresheet again and people are still questioning him?

There is no doubt that he is a weapon. I think its just that people can question his all round game

mikey_dragon wrote:North on the scoresheet again and people are still questioning him?

Who was questioning him?

Prince harry shouldn't of gone for the miss pass

I still don't understand the laws when a team knocks-on into the in-goal and it's touched down by the defending team that it's not a 22 restart instead of a 5m defending scrum.

nathan wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:North on the scoresheet again and people are still questioning him?

Who was questioning him?

Peasants on the Saints thread that don't have the right to question St George .

Virtually the whole Saints team offside from that botched clearance by Foden - how on earth wasn't that a penalty?

COME ON YOU QUINS!

Never in doubt!

Quins win 17-10, massive improvement.