Aviva Premiership - Round 5

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Table

POS	TEAM	-PL-	-W-	-D-	-L-	-PF-	-PA-	-DIFF-	-TF-	-TA-	-TB-	-LB-	-PTS-
1	Wasps	4	4	0	0	149	79	70	19	9	2	0	18
2	Saracens	4	3	0	1	106	45	61	12	3	2	1	15
3	Bath Rugby	4	3	0	1	127	75	52	14	9	2	0	14
4	Leicester Tigers	4	3	0	1	108	92	16	11	11	1	0	13
5	Exeter Chiefs	4	2	0	2	110	101	9	13	14	2	1	11
6	Newcastle Falcons	4	2	0	2	55	102	-47	5	12	0	1	9
7	Gloucester Rugby	4	1	1	2	93	92	1	9	12	1	2	9
8	Harlequins	4	2	0	2	73	84	-11	8	10	0	0	8
9	Sale Sharks	4	1	1	2	83	89	-6	9	9	1	1	8
10	Northampton Saints	4	1	0	3	73	75	-2	8	5	1	2	7
11	Worcester Warriors	4	0	2	2	82	129	-47	11	14	1	0	5
12	Bristol Rugby	4	0	0	4	68	164	-96	10	21	0	1	1

Fixtures

Friday 30 Sep

19:45 Bristol Rugby v Saracens
Things do not get any easier for Bristol as they entertain the defending champions. Saracens will be hurting after losing their first match since the 6 Nations period earlier this year. The home team’s style of harum scarum attack could be ready made for the wolfpack. Bristol’s best chance was for Sarries to win last week and rest players this week, but as it is I cannot see them breaking their season’s duck.

19:45 Northampton Saints v Exeter Chiefs BT Sport
Having had the hardest start imaginable to the new season, last season’s runners up have finally hit their stride. The attacking game is starting to take shape and they will travel to the East Midlands with confidence. Saints will be bemused and confused as to just how they lost last week. The controlled that match but could not get the ball over the whitewash. There were far too many individual mistakes for a team that won the title just a couple of years ago. They will be encouraged by the struggles Chiefs are having at scrum time but the match could come down to which team executes their maul game best. Vital for Saints to win as otherwise they could enter the Euro break after round 6 in 11th spot in the table!


Saturday 1 Oct

14:30 Sale Sharks v Leicester Tigers
Tigers will travel to Salford buoyed by their best display of the season. However which Leicester will make the journey? Sale came back really well to sneak a draw down at Sixways and unless Tigers hit their straps could well beat the midlanders.

15:00 Gloucester Rugby v Bath Rugby BT Sport
Plougmans vs prawn sandwiches in this West Country derby. How do you even start to try and predict Gloucester as they are consistent only in their inconsistency. Is pressure mounting on Humphreys? His opposing DoR made all the right noises after the defeat at Welford Road, apparently Baths biggest AP defeat since December 2012. However he knows that they need to play much better this week to secure a win as surely Glaws will be fired up for this. We are unlikely to see the sort of scenes from two seasons ago that culminated with Knoyle’s red mist. Hopefully we will see both Ford and Burns the Younger performing well and an open game.


Sunday 2 Oct

14:30 Wasps v Harlequins
Not so long ago this would have been a major London derby, but no more. Buoyed by ending Sarries unbeaten run last week, I am sure Quins will be fired up to do the same to Wasps. How well the visitors can perform may well come down to the state of battered bodies after what was a very physical weekend. Wasps will be heartened that they won in Round 4 when really they could (or should?) have lost, knowing that even when under the cosh they can seal important victories. Dai Young may well look to rotate some players this week – though bringing in the likes of Robson, Halai, Eastmond etc certainly does not weaken the side. Wasps probably too strong, but write off Quins at your peril.


15:00 [Worcester Warriors v Newcastle Falcons BT Sport
Worcester have played two home matches, and drawn them both. What odds on 3 in a row? Falcons are currently in the top half of the table – a position that may well be giving fans vertigo. Far too early in the season to hale matches as must win games, but a win here for Worcester would really pile on the pressure to near(ish) neighbours Bristol at the bottom. If Worcester can attach some composure to the attacking flair they demonstrated last week a first win of the season is eminently achievable. However Falcons will (usually) fight for everything and make things hard for the home team. They will however need their defence to hold firm as right now they do not look like they will be going on any scoring sprees and are easily the lowest try scorers in the AP.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Just play along yappy, he eventually gives in.

Wrong.

Falcons on the other hand...

lostinwales wrote:Look on the bright side 'Chimpy' would make a great alternate ID....

Think Gimpy or Gimp for short could work too, it's quite appropriate really...

You thinking he'll suit rubber then.

Leave him alone, he's quite fragile you know.

He' would be if he's tied up Pulp Fiction style.

beshocked wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Look on the bright side 'Chimpy' would make a great alternate ID....

Think Gimpy or Gimp for short could work too, it's quite appropriate really...

Now, now Defrocked, if you want to get personal, we can do that. We can do it all day if you like.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Leave him alone, he's quite fragile you know.

Coming from the Co ck womble that pretended to be a Saracens supporter to disguise his own embarrassment, that's rather rich. Particularly as your allegiance to serial mediocrity is well known.

C'mon Jimpy, that's a bit harsh. The Saracens comment was obviously tongue in cheek.

I'm not embarrassed to support Falcons, it's something I'm stuck with. We could all pick a successful side that we don't actually have any attachment to end of the day

Jimpy wrote:

beshocked wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Look on the bright side 'Chimpy' would make a great alternate ID....

Think Gimpy or Gimp for short could work too, it's quite appropriate really...

Now, now Defrocked, if you want to get personal, we can do that. We can do it all day if you like.

Gimpy sorry I don't see you that way. If you want to do things, Pulp Fiction style, then you're welcome to do that with someone else but I am not interested.

Wow, go to Scotland for two days and a league rugby thread turns into a kindegarten sandlot

Well remaining teams soon to divert attention.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:C'mon Jimpy, that's a bit harsh. The Saracens comment was obviously tongue in cheek.

I'm not embarrassed to support Falcons, it's something I'm stuck with. We could all pick a successful side that we don't actually have any attachment to end of the day

You mean like 90% of Saracens supporters? Yeah, I get that. To be fair to the 90%, they had no idea rugby existed before 2005, they're still learning.

Leicester Tigers (v Sale Sharks, away, Saturday 2.30pm)
15 Telusa Veauinu
14 Adam Thompstone
13 Peter Betham
12 Mathew Tait
11 Tom Brady
10 Owen Williams
9 Ben Youngs
1 Ellis Genge
2 George McGuigan
3 Dan Cole
4 Ed Slater (c)
5 Mike Fitzgerald
6 Mike Williams
7 Brendon O'Connor
8 Lachlan McCaffrey

Replacements
16 Tom Youngs
17 Logovi'i Mulipola
18 Greg Bateman
19 Dom Barrow
20 Graham Kitchener
21 Jono Kitto
22 Freddie Burns
23 Matt Smith

Sale Sharks:

15. Byron McGuigan, 14. Nev Edwards, 13. Will Addison, 12. Johnny Leota, 11. Paolo Odogwu, 10. AJ MacGinty, 9. Mike Phillips, 1. Ross Harrison, 2. Neil Briggs, 3. Kieran Longbottom, 4. Bryn Evans, 5. Jonathan Mills, 6. Cameron Neild, 7. David Seymour, 8. Josh Beaumont (c)

Replacements: 16. Eifion Lewis-Roberts, 17. Halani Aulika, 18. Andrei Ostrikov, 19. Laurence Pearce, 20. Magnus Lund, 21. James Mitchell, 22. Dan Mugford, 23. Sam Bedlow

Gloucester Rugby:

15. James Hook; 14. Charlie Sharples, 13. Billy Twelvetrees, 12. Mark Atkinson, 11. Henry Purdy; 10. Billy Burns, 9. Greig Laidlaw (capt); 1. Paddy McAllister, 2. Richard Hibbard, 3. John Afoa; 4. Tom Savage, 5. Mariano Galarza; 6. Ross Moriarty, 7. Jacob Rowan, 8. Ben Morgan

Replacements:

16. Darren Dawidiuk, 17. Yann Thomas, 18. Paul Doran-Jones, 19. Joe Latta, 20. Matt Kvesic, 21. Willi Heinz, 22. Matt Scott, 23. David Halaifonua

Unavailable for selection:

Sione Kalamafoni, Tom Lindsay, Tom Marshall, Motu Matu'u, Jonny May, Andy Symons, Ollie Thorley, Jeremy Thrush, Henry Trinder

Bath Rugby team to face Gloucester

15. Tom Homer
14. Semesa Rokoduguni
13. Aled Brew
12. Matt Banahan
11. Anthony Watson
10. George Ford ( c )
9. Kahn Fotuali’i
1. Nathan Catt
2. Tom Dunn
3. Henry Thomas
4. Charlie Ewels
5. Elliott Stooke
6. Matt Garvey ( c )
7. Tom Ellis
8. Leroy Houston

Replacements

16. Ross Batty
17. Nick Auterac
18. Kane Palma-Newport
19. Dave Attwood
20. Zach Mercer
21. Chris Cook
22. Rory Jennings
23. Jeff Williams

Not available for selection: Dan Bowden, Luke Charteris, Max Clark, David Denton, Taulupe Faletau, Jonathan Joseph, Francois Louw, Niko Matawalu, Guy Mercer, Rhys Priestland, David Sisi, Jack Walker.

4 wingers and two captains for Bath!!!

Wasps team to face Harlequins at the Ricoh Arena, Sunday 2 October, KO 2.30pm.
15. Rob Miller
14. Christian Wade
13. Elliot Daly
12. Jimmy Gopperth
11. Josh Bassett
10. Danny Cipriani
9. Dan Robson
1. Matt Mullan (c)
2. Ashley Johnson
3. Jake Cooper-Woolley
4. Matt Symons
5. Kearnan Myall
6. Sam Jones
7. Guy Thompson
8. Nathan Hughes

16. Tommy Taylor
17. Simon McIntyre
18. Marty Moore
19. James Gaskell
20. Thomas Young
21. Joe Simpson
22. Kyle Eastmond
23. Frank Halai

Harlequins Squad
15. Mike Brown
14. Marland Yarde
13. Alofa Alofa
12. Jamie Roberts
11. Tim Visser
10. Tim Swiel
9. Karl Dickson

1. Mark Lambert
2. Joe Gray
3. Will Collier
4. George Merrick
5. James Horwill (c)
6. Chris Robshaw
7. Luke Wallace
8. James Chisholm

Replacements
16. Dave Ward
17. Joe Marler
18. Kyle Sinckler
19. Sam Twomey
20. George Naoupu
21. Charlie Mulchrone
22. James Lang
23. Winston Stanley

Warriors
15 Jamie Shillcock
14 Perry Humphreys
13 Wynand Olivier
12 Jackson Willison
11 Cooper Vuna
10 Tom Heathcote
9 Jonny Arr
1 Val Rapava Ruskin
2 Niall Annett
3 Nick Schonert
4 Donncha O'Callaghan
5 Darren Barry
6 Alafoti Faosiliva
7 Carl Kirwan
8 Phil Dowson (C)

Replacements
16 Jaba Bregvadze
17 Na'ama Leleimalefaga
18 James Johnston
19 Christian Scotland-Williamson
20 Matt Cox
21 Luke Baldwin
22 Ryan Lamb
23 Josh Adams

Newcastle Falcons team v Worcester Warriors (Sunday, 3pm, Sixways, live on BT Sport)

15 Simon Hammersley
14 Alex Tait
13 Dominic Waldouck
12 Juan Pablo Socino
11 Sinoti Sinoti
10 Mike Delany
9 Sonatane Takulua
1 Rob Vickers
2 Scott Lawson
3 Jon Welsh
4 Calum Green
5 Evan Olmstead
6 Mark Wilson
7 Will Welch (captain)
8 Ally Hogg

Replacements

16 Ben Sowrey
17 Alex Rogers
18 David Wilson
19 Will Witty
20 Daniel Temm
21 Michael Young
22 Joel Hodgson
23 Belisario Agulla

LondonTiger wrote:Bath Rugby team to face Gloucester

15. Tom Homer
14. Semesa Rokoduguni
13. Aled Brew
12. Matt Banahan
11. Anthony Watson
10. George Ford ( c )
9. Kahn Fotuali’i
1. Nathan Catt
2. Tom Dunn
3. Henry Thomas
4. Charlie Ewels
5. Elliott Stooke
6. Matt Garvey ( c )
7. Tom Ellis
8. Leroy Houston

Replacements

16. Ross Batty
17. Nick Auterac
18. Kane Palma-Newport
19. Dave Attwood
20. Zach Mercer
21. Chris Cook
22. Rory Jennings
23. Jeff Williams

Not available for selection: Dan Bowden, Luke Charteris, Max Clark, David Denton, Taulupe Faletau, Jonathan Joseph, Francois Louw, Niko Matawalu, Guy Mercer, Rhys Priestland, David Sisi, Jack Walker.

Under normal circumstances I'd look at that team and think there was a real opportunity for a win. Only Glaws have the ability to create such negativity so early in the season! With the expected heavy rain tomorrow that Bath pack will grind out a win through the maul.

Wasps are pretty much unchanged by the look of it - perhaps Hughes starting!
Quins with quite a lot of changes and a few on debut.

I think that's an unchanged Falcons line-up for the 3rd time in row, may be wrong. Good to see Davey Wilson on the bench, a decent back-up TH! C'mon Falcons!

LondonTiger wrote:4 wingers and two captains for Bath!!!

and four blindside/locks and 0 opensides! really worried about this one

And we're still missing Fonua, Orr, Watson
KIbirige? Chisanga?

Unsure why Tigers have two locks on the bench (surely Hamilton, Thacker, Evans, Owen and Tuilagi aren't all injured). Also unsure why we've then decided to start the two of the four locks that can play in the backrow meaning that towards the end of the game whoever is in our backrow will have played a full 80, no fresh legs. Kitchener being in the bench is doubly puzzling because of the point above and the fact he's been our best lock this season. He's been a lineout stealing beast.

Is Walker injured? Seems a bit harsh after how well he played last week to be dropped straight away!

Bathite wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:4 wingers and two captains for Bath!!!

and four blindside/locks and 0 opensides! really worried about this one

I'm doing the usual and watching this game with a good pal who is a Bath supporter. We've agreed that we just want to get the game out of the way and enjoy the beers afterwards. He is very nervous about this too. Despite the doom and gloom I do love the derby games, so wherever you're watching it, have fun and may the best team win ... (Glaws)

Glaws to win surely, look at that Bath team!
Alternatively Stooke to score a last minute winner and kiss the badge in front of the shed...

formerly known as Sam wrote:Unsure why Tigers have two locks on the bench (surely Hamilton, Thacker, Evans, Owen and Tuilagi aren't all injured). Also unsure why we've then decided to start the two of the four locks that can play in the backrow meaning that towards the end of the game whoever is in our backrow will have played a full 80, no fresh legs. Kitchener being in the bench is doubly puzzling because of the point above and the fact he's been our best lock this season. He's been a lineout stealing beast.

Fitzgerald covers 6
McCaffrey covers 7
Slater covers 8

I mean they are pro players and should be able to by now (5 weeks in) play the full 80 at near 100%.

Re Kitchener prob down to rotation.

Looks to me like we are going for a very heavy pack battle.

And why has Craig Willis been demoted??

He is the future. He came through great last season, played well in the pre season friendlies and has since been dumped back in the development side following Hodgsons arrival!

Willis is going to a great player...why hold him back for Hodgson!

GeordieFalcon wrote:And why has Craig Willis been demoted??

He is the future. He came through great last season, played well in the pre season friendlies and has since been dumped back in the development side following Hodgsons arrival!

Willis is going to a great player...why hold him back for Hodgson!

Willis has agreed a pre contract agreement with Tigers for next season.

Welly it's not about players being able to play 80 minutes it's the impact potential of fresh legs. A fresh player in a tight game can make a big impact after 55/60 minutes. Particularly a player like Thacker. Having a tired backrow against a pacey Sale back line is not a good thing and hopefully not a factor in the game.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:And why has Craig Willis been demoted??

He is the future. He came through great last season, played well in the pre season friendlies and has since been dumped back in the development side following Hodgsons arrival!

Willis is going to a great player...why hold him back for Hodgson!

Willis has agreed a pre contract agreement with Tigers for next season.
.

I wouldn't be surprised!!!

GeordieFalcon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:And why has Craig Willis been demoted??

He is the future. He came through great last season, played well in the pre season friendlies and has since been dumped back in the development side following Hodgsons arrival!

Willis is going to a great player...why hold him back for Hodgson!

Willis has agreed a pre contract agreement with Tigers for next season.
.

I wouldn't be surprised!!!

I was joking but we are scouting around for flyhalfs with Williams contract up next summer and twi Welsh regions currently rumoured to be interested. Gatland's law would also come into force if he signed a new deal whereas currently that doesn't apply. We've been linked with Ford already.

Bathman_in_London wrote:Glaws to win surely, look at that Bath team!
Alternatively Stooke to score a last minute winner and kiss the badge in front of the shed...

That's what I've been dreading

We have two crackers coming through - Willis, and the younger Brett Conon who you'd probably compare to a George Ford type...small in stature but looks skilled.

Although that's what we thought about Joel Hodgson...

Bathman_in_London wrote:Glaws to win surely, look at that Bath team!
Alternatively Stooke to score a last minute winner and kiss the badge in front of the shed...

That's what us falcons fans said...and look what happened.....

HongKongCherry wrote:Under normal circumstances I'd look at that team and think there was a real opportunity for a win. Only Glaws have the ability to create such negativity so early in the season!  With the expected heavy rain tomorrow that Bath pack will grind out a win through the maul.

Based on this weather information and the fact that your front row replacements are not even close to prem standard I've predicted a narrow Bath victory after originally thinking you might sneak it. It best not be an underhand tactic to make me drop points in the Jeff 606v2 league.

GeordieFalcon wrote:We have two crackers coming through - Willis, and the younger Brett Conon who you'd probably compare to a George Ford type...small in stature but looks skilled.

Although that's what we thought about Joel Hodgson...  

I think it's more that they want a controlling 10 as a contrast to Burns who whilst more pragmatic than he used to be doesn't control a game as well as Williams, who barely features if you watch highlights but just seems to make everything tick along nicely. Personally I'd convert Burns to 15 in the Murphy style and then look at another 10 anyway. Don't want any really young prospect as we have our own in 17 year old Hardwick who's already played A team rugby.

So I've gone for-

Saints - More wishful thinking than anything else. Northampton always loose when I pick them.
Saracens
Tigers
Bath
Wasps
Worcester

Tight margins all but Saracens and Wasps.

B91212 wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:Under normal circumstances I'd look at that team and think there was a real opportunity for a win. Only Glaws have the ability to create such negativity so early in the season!  With the expected heavy rain tomorrow that Bath pack will grind out a win through the maul.

Based on this weather information and the fact that your front row replacements are not even close to prem standard I've predicted a narrow Bath victory after originally thinking you might sneak it. It best not be an underhand tactic to make me drop points in the Jeff 606v2 league.

I too have gone with a narrow Bath win. At least that way there is silver lining I can cling on to at the end of the game.

Completely agree re our front row subs, utter tripe. Motu Matu'u will be in full training from next week, but we're still 6 weeks away from Hohneck arriving. Unfortunately this doesn't address PDJ

formerly known as Sam wrote:I think it's more that they want a controlling 10 as a contrast to Burns who whilst more pragmatic than he used to be doesn't control a game as well as Williams, who barely features if you watch highlights but just seems to make everything tick along nicely. Personally I'd convert Burns to 15 in the Murphy style and then look at another 10 anyway. Don't want any really young prospect as we have our own in 17 year old Hardwick who's already played A team rugby.

After watching the Tigers Bath game last week I finally got why you rate Williams. Until then I thought he was a bit average and maybe more of a 12 (even before he played there this season).

HongKongCherry wrote:Unfortunately this doesn't address PDJ

As a Saints fan - your welcome

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Clark back for the first time since the end of the 2015 season
Groom starts at 9, Dickson not in the 23
Wood dropped in favour of Gibson and again not in the 23
Mallinder starts at 12 probably due to Burrell's concussion protocols
Pisi (G) still at 13 despite being slow and off form.

None of the new signings out wide yet trusted to even get a bench position Estelles or Tuitavake

Great news on Clark being back. Bit surprised he wasn't eased back from the bench after being out so long even though he's played a few A games. Going to be a jump in intensity.
Don't feel Dickson is the loss he once was. Both 9's showed well enough against Wasps.
Is it official that Wood is dropped or is he injured? I feel that Gibson is looking a better player this season compared to last year.
Mallinder has to start at 12. Even North saw the ball last week! For me the first choice pairing should be Mallinder and one of Burrell and Pisi(G). Wish JM saw it that way.
Still think you are being a bit harsh on George Pisi. He's not the quickest but I think he's been better these last few games than the last couple of seasons.

B91212 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:I think it's more that they want a controlling 10 as a contrast to Burns who whilst more pragmatic than he used to be doesn't control a game as well as Williams, who barely features if you watch highlights but just seems to make everything tick along nicely. Personally I'd convert Burns to 15 in the Murphy style and then look at another 10 anyway. Don't want any really young prospect as we have our own in 17 year old Hardwick who's already played A team rugby.

After watching the Tigers Bath game last week I finally got why you rate Williams. Until then I thought he was a bit average and maybe more of a 12 (even before he played there this season).

Understandable, his highlight reel wouldn't be extensive. He plays more like a 34 year old than a 24 year old but it suits Tigers nicely.

B91212 wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:Unfortunately this doesn't address PDJ

As a Saints fan - your welcome

He was a good player when we gave him to you, so therefore it's your fault we have a gash TH!

B91212 wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:Unfortunately this doesn't address PDJ

As a Saints fan - your welcome

As a Quins fan I can't believe you guys took him back!!

Saints looked awesome Friday (between the 22s).  Pulling out the win was important, but still nothing close to a complete performance.  After the first 15 minutes, which seemed an Exeter training session, Saints appeared the much better team.  The problems, just like last season, and in fact, the second half of the season before, opportunities are simply not being converted into points and Saints seem to be sleepwalking for longish stretches in games.

On the plus side, Saints gave a start to another 20 year old, this time at 12, and he played fine.  Calum Clark also did fine and had a few nice stretches where his breakdown work was terrific.  Louis Picamoles is turning out to be a fantastic addition to the squad.  George North had some real nice runs, the kickoff return was great, great play.  And the lineout was excellent.  The foundations are there, just something is still not clicking.  

The interview at the end of the match with Prince Harry and the newly dubbed 'King' Louis was pretty funny.

doctor_grey wrote:Saints looked awesome Friday (between the 22s).  Pulling out the win was important, but still nothing close to a complete performance.  After the first 15 minutes, which seemed an Exeter training session, Saints appeared the much better team.  The problems, just like last season, and in fact, the second half of the season before, opportunities are simply not being converted into points and Saints seem to be sleepwalking for longish stretches in games.

On the plus side, Saints gave a start to another 20 year old, this time at 12, and he played fine.  Calum Clark also did fine and had a few nice stretches where his breakdown work was terrific.  Louis Picamoles is turning out to be a fantastic addition to the squad.  George North had some real nice runs, the kickoff return was great, great play.  And the lineout was excellent.  The foundations are there, just something is still not clicking.  

The interview at the end of the match with Prince Harry and the newly dubbed 'King' Louis was pretty funny.

Bit strong. Clark looked like he'd been out for 18 months, he got knocked around in contact and didn't link up with his team mates particularly well. Picamoles summed up Saints perfectly. From the sublime to the ridiculous. He broke tackles and offloaded on a regular basis whilst always on the shoulder of any Saints player making a run. On the flip side his error count was pretty big, particularly under the high ball and any pass not at chest level, his pass for the 3 on 0 wasn't sympathetic either. 

They just about scrapped through. Exeter started at a barn storming rate but soon fell off that pace and needed more incision in backs. Too many playmakers and not enough strike runners (Turner was poor at 15).