Southgate's England and the next England manager

First topic message reminder :

Get to close the Allardyce thread in record time, now caretaker manager Southgate has a chance to stake his claim for the job, whilst we all discuss almost anyone else as the thought of Southgate worries many.

Godfrey and White are weird. I rate the latter higher, find it hard to believe he has had Keane in all those squads, seen him as the leader of Everton's defence and picked Godfrey instead. 

Johnstone and Ramsdale I hope never play. Darlow better than both.

The rest I think I agree with. Saka is overrated and wont make it, surely.

I expect we lose Saka, White, Godfrey, Greenwood (shouldnt, the boy should play), Watkins, Trent then Lingard, Bellingham or JWP. This assumes fitness of the rest.

Id drop Saka, Godfrey, White, Watkins without doubt, then see on fitness of others.

Wan-Bissaka and Maddison missing out is odd, the midfield options are poor to say the least.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Godfrey and White are weird. I rate the latter higher, find it hard to believe he has had Keane in all those squads, seen him as the leader of Everton's defence and picked Godfrey instead. 

Johnstone and Ramsdale I hope never play. Darlow better than both.

The rest I think I agree with. Saka is overrated and wont make it, surely.

I expect we lose Saka, White, Godfrey, Greenwood (shouldnt, the boy should play), Watkins, Trent then Lingard, Bellingham or JWP. This assumes fitness of the rest.

Id drop Saka, Godfrey, White, Watkins without doubt, then see on fitness of others.

Only lose six outfield players, I think, not seven, as one goalkeeper will (presumably) be dropped.

Agree that's it odd that Keane and Maddison haven't even made the provisional squad.

That's what I was missing! I knew I was doing too many players but just blocked out the goalkeepers!

Bellingham, Greenwood and Saka should all go for me. With the expanded 26 man squad those are the types that should go in the last few places for tournament experience at the very least

I'd drop
Ramsdale
White / Mings / James
Lingard / Henderson (I know he won't, but is he really that valuable given he hasn't played in 4 months)
Watkins

Tomori’s been harshly overlooked. Impressed Milan enough that they are about to spend £30m on him - better played than Coady and Mings IMO.

Mings isn't even the best centre back at Villa, I get wanting a left footer but he's really not very good.

Probably the most likely starting line up, if Henderson is fit. It’s alright, but our central midfield has always been weak. Expect the full backs to be exposed at tournament level, especially Walker. Maguire and Stones look the first choice, but clumsy errors just a moment away with those two.

——————Kane—————-
—Sterling—Mount—-Foden—
——-Henderson—Rice———-
Shaw—Maguire-Stones-Walker
——————Pickford—————-

I just hope Southgate backs his attackers and goes down swinging...or goes all the way, preferably! England have the attack to beat anyone, but the defence to lose to pretty much anyone, so back the attackers and give us some entertainment.

It's a tough draw for England once past the group stages anyway - if England win the group, it's likely Portugal or Germany in the last 16, then Spain in the quarters, the Dutch in the semis, then France/Belgium in the final; if England finish runners-up, it's likely Sweden or Poland in the last 16, France in the quarters, Belgium in the semis, Spain/Dutch/Germans in the final - so I can't imagine expectations will be too high.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Southgate pick three CBs, two wing-backs, two central midfielders and just three attackers (Kane + two more) for the tough games; but he may be a little bolder for games considered easier with a conventional back four, two central midfielders, and effectively four attackers.

BamBam wrote:Mings isn't even the best centre back at Villa, I get wanting a left footer but he's really not very good.

I like Mings. As a villa fan he gives me  a heart attack at times. Messes around at the back to many times.
Konsa is better imo. Think he was unlucky not to be picked in this squad at least. Doubt he would have made the final cut.

Would love to see Watkins go, he’s been brilliant for us this season. Should have scored more goals. Think he’ll be cut. I’d actually be surprised to see Jack go. Injury concern.

One choice already made for Southgate, with Mason Greenwood withdrawing from the squad because of injury. That leaves five more outfield players to cut.

TAA, Godfrey, Lingard, Ramsdale, JWP and White the others being cut apparently

If that's the case, I'm pleased Watkins is going because he's clearly very passionate about the England side and may offer something a little different. Trent missing out due to poor form and the good form of James and Trippier is fair enough. Disappointed that JWP is cut, though not surprised.

What are everyone's expectations for England at the Euros? I think it'll be a struggle for England to make it past the last 16, as I think England will win the group and run into either Portugal or France in the last 16, both of which have brilliant squads. Might actually be a bit easier if England finish runners-up in the group!

Baffled Saka and Watkins go over Trent and Lingard.

My expectations? Low. Not seen anything that suggests we know what we’re doing. With big injuries and a weak defence even with those players, I see us being too weak to stop anyone good.

Difficult to replicate that WC semi. Central midfield is weak, and defence a disaster waiting to happen.

Interesting that Rashford isn’t pulling out, like Greenwood, given he’s got a tear in his shoulder and an ongoing foot injury.

Yes, I think Rashford should definitely have pulled out as well, given that he's carrying injuries and is in (as a direct result of those injuries) atrocious form.

It feels like a major tournament under Sven or the 2010 one under Capello: numerous players going despite being injured/well below 100% fitness/out of form (Henderson, Maguire, Rashford, Sterling, Saka, Phillips, Grealish...have I missed anyone?!).

England's only hope is Sir Harold Kane blasting enough goals to bail out the leaky defence, and that Phil Foden announces himself internationally like Gazza at Italia 90 or Rooney at Euro '04.

Trent's apparently in the squad.

Ramsdale, Godfrey, JWP, Lingard, Watkins, White, Greenwood all cut from the 33.

Lot of talk about four right-backs making it in, but Trippier covers the left, and Walker and James can cover the centre. And if Southgate wants to play three CBs in one game, I expect Walker will be one of those three.

Sounds like Trent might be playing in midfield which should be entertaining

Southgate says he expects Lingard to start in tomorrow's warm-up friendly.

What's the point? Surely the warm-up games should be confined to the 26 players actually in the squad?

Depends if he wants Lingard to play in a way similar to Foden/Mount etc and feels that's best for the rest of his squad to play where they would usually or with a player of the sort who will be replaced by an upgrade, if you know what I mean.

Or he just wants someone to play a chunk of the game that has no concerns over fitness.

Also assume he's probably next up if there's an injury. Bit of Trev 2002

Fatigue is gonna be a major thing this summer and into next years WC so it makes sense

England 1-0 Austria FT

Average performance from Southgate’s boys. Trent Alexander-Arnold injured, and potentially out of the Euro’s.

Result doesn't matter, performance doesn't matter. Friendlies are always drab. Best thing is Grealish got some game time.

Trent confirmed as being out of the Euros.

Southgate can bring in a replacement - JWP? Lingard? Some other right-back?

Not sure why Henderson is still sticking around. Clearly not fit.

That's the main problem for England. Too many unfit players going, plus not enough players in form. Mind you, the lack of fitness factor may apply to quite a few teams.

1 goal and not from open play, a bit concerning.

Ben White replaces TAA.

Who makes the starting XI on sunday then?

For me Grealish has to start now after the last two games, and Foden needs to be in as the game changer.

Think I'd go

Pickford
Trippier---Stones---Maguire---Shaw
Phillips---Rice
Foden---Mount---Grealish
Kane

I'd want Bellingham to start but on the whole I agree with that Afro

I like the front 4 on paper and think they deserve the start against Croatia on form, but feels like we lack someone to run in behind and stretch teams, all 4 of those guys want the ball to feet

I've got absolutely no idea what Southgate is going to go for, not even sure what formation he is going to play let alone the players who will make it up!

If it were down to me I would go with;

------------------Pickford-------------------
Walker------Stones----Mings--------Chilwell
--------------------Rice------------------------
----------Bellingham---Mount----------------
Foden---------------------------------Sancho
-------------------Kane-----------------------

I am presuming Maguire isn't fit, otherwise he'd obviously be in for Mings. To be honest, I have no real qualms with whoever is picked at RB and LB, they're all fairly even in my eyes.
Harsh on Grealish to miss out in my XI, but do agree with Bambam that we need one of Sancho/Sterling/Rashford to start to make runs in behind and have some pace in the attack. I'd also really like to see Bellingham play and given one of the midfield slots from the start, boy is an absolute star already

Afro wrote:Who makes the starting XI on sunday then?

For me Grealish has to start now after the last two games, and Foden needs to be in as the game changer.

Think I'd go

Pickford
Trippier---Stones---Maguire---Shaw
Phillips---Rice
Foden---Mount---Grealish
Kane

That team feels a bit narrow to me and the three behind Kane are very similar.

Henderson

Stones-Mings-Maguire
Trippier Shaw

Rice

Grealish Foden Sancho

Kane

You're then at least getting some proper width from Trippier and Shaw.

I can see the argument about lack of width. I'd have Trippier and Shaw trying to provide that, which is why I went for Phillips ahead of Bellingham. Bellingham is superb but should be box to box to get the most from him.

There’s no chance he sits Rice alone.

I think there’s a chance Ben White plays now. He’s much more suited to the back five than Mings, and Mings has been terrible in the last couple games. Just a moment or two in each that have been ridiculous.

I like his pace and height, I like the left foot balance, but he’s starting to look like he’s too charged up. As if he knows he needs to be a big character and is losing composure.

Just John wrote:Ben White replaces TAA.

Disappointed JWP isn't in, especially with England having potential struggles with Henderson's fitness in the centre of midfield.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:There’s no chance he sits Rice alone.

I think there’s a chance Ben White plays now. He’s much more suited to the back five than Mings, and Mings has been terrible in the last couple games. Just a moment or two in each that have been ridiculous.

I like his pace and height, I like the left foot balance, but he’s starting to look like he’s too charged up. As if he knows he needs to be a big character and is losing composure.

If you've got a back 3/5 whatever you want to call it there is no need for two players sitting, there's never a need for two players sitting anyway.

I did consider White in place of Mings, the more likely route Southgate would go is selecting Walker as part of the back three which would be disastrous.

Afro wrote:Who makes the starting XI on sunday then?

For me Grealish has to start now after the last two games, and Foden needs to be in as the game changer.

Think I'd go

Pickford
Trippier---Stones---Maguire---Shaw
Phillips---Rice
Foden---Mount---Grealish
Kane

Southgate says he knows ten of his players, which sounds like he's just waiting for the fitness to be confirmed of the one remaining. I agree Foden, Grealish and Kane all have to start because they're England's match-winners, and you'd add (probably) Sterling as the one pace option - saving Mount, Sancho, Rashford for the bench. James and Shaw would be my full-back options. The centre of defence and midfield, Stones apart, is an area of mystery.

I'm concerned Southgate hasn't let his starting XI play at least 45 minutes in a match scenario, but...in Gareth we Trust.

If I had to bet my mortgage on who will be in that starting XI, I think the only ones I'd be certain of are Rice and Kane, then probably Stones and Pickford slightly less confidently.

Scotland to fancy their chances going against England. Croatia betting they'll win with only a half-arsed effort.

My line up would be:

----------------------Pickford----------------------
-----------Walker----Stones-----Mings-----------
Trippier---------------------------------------Shaw
------------------------Rice------------------------
-------------Grealish---------Foden---------------
-----------------------------------------------------
---------------Kane--------Rashford---------------

I don't want Maguire or Henderson in, Hendo looked unfit yesterday.
Pickford gets the nod over Dean Henderson for me,.
Mings purely because he's left footed, but I'd be interested if Luke Shaw trains as a LCB to put Chilwell in.
Think you can have Rice and two attacking midfielders with 5 at the back, particularly with Shaw and Trippier solid defensively.

Certainly aren't easy decisions though, Reece James unlucky to miss out.

I might be in the minority here, but actually think it’s a problem when you don’t have a universally agreed  starting XI. People talk about attacking riches, but they’re all like for like, no real standouts, other than Kane. Most of the sides winning these tournaments have a settled side, who know their jobs and roles to a tee. Just feel like Southgate hasn’t really got a clue what his best side is, what the best formation is, and hasn’t really utilised the friendlies to understand how to set this Euro campaign up. It just feels all very much up in the air, hence why everyone’s predicted lines up are all different.

Just John wrote:I might be in the minority here, but actually think it’s a problem when you don’t have a universally agreed  starting XI. People talk about attacking riches, but they’re all like for like, no real standouts, other than Kane. Most of the sides winning these tournaments have a settled side, who know their jobs and roles to a tee. Just feel like Southgate hasn’t really got a clue what his best side is, what the best formation is, and hasn’t really utilised the friendlies to understand how to set this Euro campaign up. It just feels all very much up in the air, hence why everyone’s predicted lines up are all different.

I agree with most of this and something similar a few months ago. Southgate doesn't know what his best XI is (or best formation?), hence whatever XI starts v Croatia won't have the best cohesion in terms of chemistry. The good news is England have landed in a fairly soft group and should be confident of landing at least two wins which at least allows them to settle in and hopefully build unity/momentum.

The chemistry problem was the same faced by Roy Hodgson at Euro 2016 when he just threw a bunch of attacking players together and hoped to make it work.

Just John wrote:I might be in the minority here, but actually think it’s a problem when you don’t have a universally agreed  starting XI. People talk about attacking riches, but they’re all like for like, no real standouts, other than Kane. Most of the sides winning these tournaments have a settled side, who know their jobs and roles to a tee. Just feel like Southgate hasn’t really got a clue what his best side is, what the best formation is, and hasn’t really utilised the friendlies to understand how to set this Euro campaign up. It just feels all very much up in the air, hence why everyone’s predicted lines up are all different.

I will agree with you on the point about a settled side and there being a problem. A country can have an abundance of attacking riches, like Brazil, but, like Brazil, that can go against you.
There is no certainty because there is no applied thought. No real consideration, unless I've missed something.

Southgate may have much more idea than we think. Not helped by the champions league final being two English teams and the Europa having Man United’s comedic attempt.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:There’s no chance he sits Rice alone.

I think there’s a chance Ben White plays now. He’s much more suited to the back five than Mings, and Mings has been terrible in the last couple games. Just a moment or two in each that have been ridiculous.

I like his pace and height, I like the left foot balance, but he’s starting to look like he’s too charged up. As if he knows he needs to be a big character and is losing composure.

If you've got a back 3/5 whatever you want to call it there is no need for two players sitting, there's never a need for two players sitting anyway.

I did consider White in place of Mings, the more likely route Southgate would go is selecting Walker as part of the back three which would be disastrous.

Not my personal pick, but looking at Southgate, he’d have another alongside Rice even if it’s Mount.

I think if nothing else, Southgate is going to be damned by overachieving in the world cup 3 years ago. A pretty soft run to the last 4 masking what is still a young side under construction imo

I think there's a good team in the squad, well other than in central defence. Just not sure what the best 11 will be. How many of the attacking midfielders / no 10 players will Southgate risk, and how well will the team balance?

I just hope Southgate comes away from his recent negative tactics and actually lets them play to win and win well - too many dodgy 1-0s recently with us playing negatively once in the lead.

I hope the fact that Southgate played with four at the back in a 4-2-3-1 type system in the two games means that we are playing that system at the Euros.
If we go to five at the back, which isn't necessarily a negative system depending on personnel then it's pretty concerning and will feel unplanned.

The midfield selection will tell us a lot about how he wants to play. If he starts Rice with Henderson/Philips, expect stodge and negativity.

Bellingham or even pushing Grealish into the left of the 3 in midfield (assuming Mount starts in every scenario) would be a real statement of intent