Silly Season Transfer Rumours 16/17

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Nit before the Lions tour. Don't think any of the All Black internationals will end their career pre tour.

Williams is a lot more of a 6 than a lock.

Would also have hamilton @6 and O'Connor @ 8 if case.

But that back row looks ridiculously tiny and would not have Thacker ahead of Evans.

Thacker and Evans is a rotation job, horses for courses approach for me. I think Evans has the ability to be a world class player but asking a 19/20 year old to start week in week out on the openside in the HEC and Europe is tough.

Not that tiny when you have 19 stone of number 8 in Kalamafoni and one of two flankers at 6 that we've happily played at 8 for the last couple of seasons. Thacker makes more impact on the carry than most our tight five as well.

Can't see Mauger picking a massive lumbering backrow. This weekend for instance it's his pick and he's gone for two opensides and Williams. Williams has always played 6 for us because Cockers loved his three locks approach.

1 player in the back row at 19 stone, doesn't cancel out that the rest of that back row would be tiny.

And let's face it our current 8 choices are not big hence the problem.

Williams views himself as a 6 as do I and even Eddie jones who views him as a flanker, it's about balance.
Back rows tend to go
6 Enforcer
7 Link player
8 Ball carrier

That a very New Zealand way of doing things aswell hence Fitzgerald and Symons being lock/6 in super rugby so can't see Mauger going against it.

Also don't think Thacker wants to play 7 really, and whilst a ball carrier don't think I have ever seen him get over the ball and steal it he's just too light weight to do it.(Very effective ripper in contact though)

The Chiefs used Symons and Fitzgerald at 6 not sure that's the NZ way or necessarily the Mauger way given that the Crusaders for years had a backrow of Todd, McCaw and Read. Emphasis on mobility, breakdown and footballing skills.

I have seen Thacker steal the ball at the breakdown. He rarely wins penalties there though because as you say he doesn't tend to survive the clear out. He does force the opposition to commit numbers to the breakdown though as he is a pest. It's an area he'd work on of he moved to the backrow.

Glos tweet about a busy day of news. First up confirming signing of Balmain.

Second update that the ticket office is closed due to a software update!

An intense day so far!!

Balmain to Gloucs has been known for a while.

If he can get fit, stay fit and get regular game time at Gloucs then he should turn into a very good tight head. He's already good around the park and solid at the scrum. His issue has been staying somewhere close to match fit during injury lay-offs. From what i gather most injuries he's had have led to longer out of the match day 23 than necessary because he's come back into contact training extremely out of shape.

Val Rapava Ruskin should be confirmed today too. I'm not sure if Owen Williams will be confirmed today or later in the week.

Is Afoa heading away at the end of the season HKC?

If Rapava-Ruskin signs today as well then Gloucs are building some serious front row resources for next season.

It's just a shame that Tom Lindsay hasn't been turned into a blind side yet!

Afoa has one more year left on his contract, so our pack next year could be pretty sizeable with Ruskin, Hibbard, Afoa, Savage, Galarza (or Gilchrist/Kitchener), Moriarty, Fearns and Morgan.

If Tom Lindsay could hit a barn door, he'd be an amazing hooker. Sadly he can't, nor can he stay fit for long. I'd be surprised if he is offered a new contract.

The rumours around Kitch aren't very strong. I think he's under contract for next season and would be surprised if he left. Then again who knows.

HongKongCherry wrote:I'm not sure if Owen Williams will be confirmed today or later in the week.

With the amount of money being touted as Williams wage, does it depend on the takeover happening?

LondonTiger wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:I'm not sure if Owen Williams will be confirmed today or later in the week.

With the amount of money being touted as Williams wage, does it depend on the takeover happening?

£400,000 for a fly half that cant get international hounors is ludicrous

LondonTiger wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:I'm not sure if Owen Williams will be confirmed today or later in the week.

With the amount of money being touted as Williams wage, does it depend on the takeover happening?

I'd sincerely doubt the amount quoted is anything but Fissler causing mischief. Tigers are renowned for conducting business behind closed doors and since Humprheys arrived we have followed suit. In terms of how we're financing this, we're not using the full cap credits so there is apprently c.£2m available and more importantly we're losing Hook and Laidlaw who are both on a hefty wage. Nevertheless, the takeover will help!

On a separate note, Ruskin's signing has been confirmed

Great signing in Ruskin.

Williams serioisly cant ne worth 400k, hes very average, i dont get it.

Ruskin is a fantastic signing. Potential best signing of silly season 2017 if he stays with Gloucs long term. He's a very good LH and should get even better. Unlike a lot of 'exciting young props' he's already a rock in the scrum as well.

He was the man I wanted Tigers to go after with the wage vacated by 3 of our props likely leaving at the end of the season!

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/leicester-tigers-set-to-lose-fly-half-owen-williams-to-gloucester/story-30046303-detail/story.html

Martin Crowson stating Owen as leaving in the Leicester Mercury.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Great signing in Ruskin.

Williams serioisly cant ne worth 400k, hes very average, i dont get it.

I think he's a very good controlling flyhalf when his head is in the game. Defensively he's strong, he's got a great passing game and a howitzer of a boot. He's still a bit rough round the edges but nothing that can't be polished out. An 80% kicker off the tee always stimulates financial interest, especially when he can land them from his own half.

king_carlos wrote:http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/leicester-tigers-set-to-lose-fly-half-owen-williams-to-gloucester/story-30046303-detail/story.html

Martin Crowson stating Owen as leaving in the Leicester Mercury.

It sounds like we've used our tried and tested Tigers recruitment tactic; a huge increase in salary coupled with a guaranteed starting spot

With centres outside him who could take some play making pressure off his shoulders it could be a great move for Williams and Gloucs. Williams also replaces the goal kicking void left by Laidlaw and adds a hell of lot more range than he offers too.

Hopefully it doesn't hold back Billy Burns who looks a cracking prospect though.

It's a good looking squad that Humphreys is building that's for sure.

Underhill > Bath

Wonder how he fits in with Louw already there

BamBam wrote:Underhill > Bath

Wonder how he fits in with Louw already there

Isn't Louw like 31/32?

Louw misses a hell of a lot of games with SA, he's averaged less than 12 games a season in the 6 years he's been with us. We also massively over rely on him and he's played without an off season for about 4 years, so he get injured too.

Underhill been rumoured for a long time. Heard good things but never seen him. Makes sense as a someone you blood into the role. Could see Louw moving more to 6 as well as a good option

BamBam wrote:Underhill > Bath

Wonder how he fits in with Louw already there

I'm sure they'll manage

Underhill is a guy any club would sign given half a chance.

Will Blackadder struggle to keep the Mercer brothers involved with Louw and Underhill there?

It's a lot of flankers he will have signed up with Underhill added. Guy has covered 8 but is really a 7. Zach plays 8 but honestly strikes me as another Alex Gray - a fantastic young player but will ultimately lack the bulk to play 8 in the modern game.

The Bath back row certainly now has a lot of English talent.
The Mercers aren't related but Zach is only 19 and will be be getting bigger over the next two years to be a fantastic athletic no.8 . Garvey will probably be moving to the second row next season, leaving Ellis and Sisi to compete for the no.6 slot. Guy Mercer, Underhill and Louw for the openside. Faletau, Mercer and Grant for no.8.
Levi Douglas from the Academy will break through next season and is big and quick enough to cover all three positions.
Denton should be ditched and the money used for a new tight head as the academy props are not ready. Would not be surprised if Nel is signed.

Big difference between gray and z.Mercer.

Mercer is looking fine at prem level already, can't see him doing a Gray honestly.

Welly wrote: Big difference between gray and z.Mercer.

Mercer is looking fine at prem level already, can't see him doing a Gray honestly.

Totally agree. Gray lacked the carrying aggression, regardless of size. Mercer has that and will put size on over time.

Isn't Louw off home ?

Denton is a pure 8 and if you already have your star in Faletau, the money could be put to better use.

Are the Nel to Bath rumours strong?

Denton has become a stop gap as Bath were told Faletau wouldn't be leaving Wales. In the games that he has played he has made little impact, although clearly unlucky with the current injury.
Bath need another TH and the only strong rumour is that Nel will become available.

SirBurger wrote:

Welly wrote: Big difference between gray and z.Mercer.

Mercer is looking fine at prem level already, can't see him doing a Gray honestly.

Totally agree. Gray lacked the carrying aggression, regardless of size. Mercer has that and will put size on over time.

When Gray first shot onto the scene with Newcastle he carried well. Then as defences targeted him more he got dominated in contact too regularly.

Perhaps Mercer will fill out better than Gray did, he seems a similar sort of 8 at the moment to me. I hope he can make it though, his basic skills are top notch same as most of the recent U20 graduates. The issue for many has been surviving the jump in physicality when they move to Prem rugby.

As for Guy and Zach not being brothers, I'd never realised that. I must have just made the assumption when I first heard a second Mercer was coming through the Bath ranks.

Nel is out of contract this summer and Edinburgh are keen on keeping him but bigger money is in play. He has got injured at the wrong time though.

Recwatcher16 wrote:Denton has become a stop gap as Bath were told Faletau wouldn't be leaving Wales. In the games that he has played he has made little impact, although clearly unlucky with the current injury.
Bath need another TH and the only strong rumour is that Nel will become available.

PDJ is out of contract this summer...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38583576

Williams ---> Gloucs

Confirmed on the Beeb.

king_carlos wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38583576

Williams ---> Gloucs

Confirmed on the Beeb.

Good signing for Glaws. Gives them variety in their flyhalf options.

I do not rate him as highly as you do Sam, and do wonder if Glaws will be getting value for money.

His main strength this season has been goalkicking, but even that has been fallible - most noticeably against Sarries where his ball striking was poor. His kicking to touch has been erratic to poor with far too many missing touch. His kicking in open play has been poor. I am not struck on him in defence as he goes far too high and gets shrugged off often (while the less said about his effort in the Wade try the better). His play ball in hand has not been good this season.

He is most certainly talented but whether it has been our style of play I am not sure, but at 10 he has looked hurried and prone to error. He has looked better at 12 but without offering any of teh structure we saw from Matt Smith last week.

Assuming Ford goes to Sale (or stays at Bath) we will however be looking a little light at 10 next season though.

I rate Williams highly for what he does but he has a lot of room for improvement in certain areas. His distribution and game management have stopped progressing over the last year.

In a different game plan and with centres outside him would take some of the pressure of play making off I think he could progress very well. It's a good move for Williams and Gloucs IMO. Burns is rightly Mauger's first choice so when Cockers left (he often preferred Owen) it isn't surprising he has confirmed he is leaving. It does leave Tigers light on cover though.

The latest I've heard about Ford is that his contract whilst having a release clause prevents him from heading to certain clubs - top 4 rivals the rumours say. Apparently he has been in positive talks with Tigers but that is getting in the way. How a clause such as that could be written into contract I'm not sure and I'm very skeptical of the rumours.

Release clauses do usually require a lot of negotiation and often compensation between clubs though so it wouldn't surprise me if Brucey is simply pricing Tigers out of the market for Ford by asking for a lot in return.

SirBurger wrote:

Welly wrote: Big difference between gray and z.Mercer.

Mercer is looking fine at prem level already, can't see him doing a Gray honestly.

Totally agree. Gray lacked the carrying aggression, regardless of size. Mercer has that and will put size on over time.

Gray should never have left the falcons so soon. Another example to our kids to stay put rather than seeing the bright lights...

GeordieFalcon wrote:

SirBurger wrote:

Welly wrote: Big difference between gray and z.Mercer.

Mercer is looking fine at prem level already, can't see him doing a Gray honestly.

Totally agree. Gray lacked the carrying aggression, regardless of size. Mercer has that and will put size on over time.

Gray should never have left the falcons so soon. Another example to our kids to stay put rather than seeing the bright lights...

Interestingly he was playing outside centre for Yorkshire Carnegie at the start of the season and apparently doing well there. He hasn't featured for a while though, I honestly can't tell you if he's injured, away with the Sevens program or something else.

We're not a top 4 club at the moment so we should go I'm for Ford!

Williams came into the first team with a real positive impact this season. Unfortunately his form has dipped of late and as already said his tactical kicking has been replaced with aimlessly kicking it long. His kicking off the tee has been good and it's unfair to mention the Sarries game where Owen Farrell was equally poor off the tee hunting that the pitch and weather conditions were playing a significant part.

Tigers will need to source another flyhalf but Williams will not have been on peanuts so we'll have some funds to spend. Shillcock at Worcester of they go down would be an obvious option if we haven't got the funds to go after a Ford level player. Maybe Mauger will use his contacts in NZ again. Ben Volavola has left the Crusaders early and signed a one year deal at the Rebels, he can play 10 and 15.

I don't think Williams is a big loss for Tigers, it'll allow Burns to slot into the FH position where he's a better player.

If they can get everyone fit and sign a few top backrowers/fb, Tigers will be a major force again.

To be honest Sgt if we play like we did in that second half against Wasps our backrow resources will work. Wasps had the bigger back row but we dominated the game. We just have to refine that style of play and the players anticipation of those line breaks and passes. Plus Kalamafoni looks to be coming our way and he'll give us some extra carrying power. 

We are missing a lot of backs so with some front foot balk like in that second half the likes of Toomua, Manu, JPP and TV will be able to do a lot should we ever see them fit. A 10/15 option would be ideal for Tigers if they can recruit one, or a high class ten and get Burns more settled into the 10/15 role.

nathan wrote:We're not a top 4 club at the moment so we should go I'm for Ford!

I'd take him in a heartbeat, especially with Williams confirmed to Gloucs.

Sadly Diamond will take him in a second as well and likely has more salary cap to offer him currently. Given that Sale have apparently had the cash to spend up to the cap but haven't been doing so I'd guess he has more money free for a transfer fee as well. It seems that Diamond is looking to bolster his squad with some big names.

Another rumour is that Ford might be heading to Sale for one season then coming to Tigers after when big Bruce can't stand in the way. This is another story I can't buy into though. I can't see Diamond spending the amount he'd need to on Ford if it's only a 1 year contract.

king_carlos wrote:so I'd guess he has more money free for a transfer fee as well. It seems that Diamond is looking to bolster his squad with some big names.

You could always offer him a farm or a restaurant...


On a different note, I am delighted with Williams signing. He is the kind of controlling 10 we need and with the likes of 36/Scott/Atkinson playing at 12 he has a viable 2nd receiver/kicker to support him. We probably have paid over the odds for him as we have Ruskin, but both are key roles missing in our current squad which justifies the cost.

Diamond may consider signing Ford on a one year deal. It's a sign in intent and if Ford goes there then there will be other players who are more likely to take an offer from Sale seriously. Diamond would also have until December to convince Ford that he should stay as he can't sign anything with Tigers before then. As soon Sale get one big name through the door publicly others will follow, as long as they can actually win a game or two this season and not get relegated.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Diamond may consider signing Ford on a one year deal. It's a sign in intent and if Ford goes there then there will be other players who are more likely to take an offer from Sale seriously. Diamond would also have until December to convince Ford that he should stay as he can't sign anything with Tigers before then. As soon Sale get one big name through the door publicly others will follow, as long as they can actually win a game or two this season and not get relegated.

Also Diamond could gamble that the gf in Manchester wants to stay there and they stick it out as a couple. They become a top 4 team in a large city (by UK standards) with domestic bliss, a high salary, good sponsorship opportunities and it may change his mind about heading to one of the midland clubs.

Kitchener signs a new deal.

Hazel Sapling wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Diamond may consider signing Ford on a one year deal. It's a sign in intent and if Ford goes there then there will be other players who are more likely to take an offer from Sale seriously. Diamond would also have until December to convince Ford that he should stay as he can't sign anything with Tigers before then. As soon Sale get one big name through the door publicly others will follow, as long as they can actually win a game or two this season and not get relegated.

Also Diamond could gamble that the gf in Manchester wants to stay there and they stick it out as a couple. They become a top 4 team in a large city (by UK standards) with domestic bliss, a high salary, good sponsorship opportunities and it may change his mind about heading to one of the midland clubs.

All very possible. As long as they are a top 6 team and there's HEC rugby then that might well do. If the rumours about Pienaar are also true then a lot of forwards who Sale are chasing might look at that half back combo and think this is the move for me.

Though the Pienaar rumours have gone quiet at a time when I thought they'd be going crazy considering how poor Phillips has been recently and the horrific injury to Stringer. Easy flight back to Belfast from Manchester for Pienaar (40 mins?).

Betham agrees terms with Tigers