World Tour Finals

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Is this going to be the worst quality one of all time?

No one is going to be in form, bar Murray, who is starting to look tired.

Djokovic - hasn't played well since RG
Murray - trying to be YE no1 must be tiring him out. To win Vienna and Paris will be his last four tournaments won I think.
Stan - is he ever in form, except for at the business end of the odd slam he wins. Nearly lost to The Donald yesterday.
Raonic - lost to Berankis (who lost to Marcus Willis at Wimbledon) this week.
Nishikori - probably in the next best form after Murray.
Monfils - Injured. Last seen losing to Gastao Elias.
Thiem - hasn't played well since before Wimbledon. Burn out/injury. Lost to Troicki in his home tournament.
Berdych - lost to Basilashvili this week.

Goffin - lost early, although to Delpo, this week.
Cilic - probably a bit far back.

I've got tickets too!

That prize money quoted is not far short of a Slam ....or is it in fact equal ....??

Sneak net attack and it's MP!

Tinges of Wimbledon 13 here.....

Deep breaths Andy. 3rd MP.

What a Herculean physical effort by Andy Murray. He beats Djokovic in straight sets and anyone not willing to accept Andy is now the deserved No 1 is either blind or on the wind-up.

Surely a shoo-in for 3rd sports personality award. Novak and Roger don't have any of those.....

CaledonianCraig wrote:What a Herculean physical effort by Andy Murray. He beats Djokovic in straight sets and anyone not willing to accept Andy is now the deserved No 1 is either blind or on the wind-up.

Only caveat is Novak is still holder of 2 slams to Andy's one. However, if you accept a ranking system where points are awarded across all tournaments, you can't really argue. Ranking points aside, I think WTF and Olympics more than compensates for the slam deficit. I know it's greedy, but such a shame that Andy couldn't capitalise at the US. Looking back that was a golden opportunity to bolster his slam count.

Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Surely a shoo-in for 3rd sports personality award. Novak and Roger don't have any of those.....

Tbh I would sooner it went to somebody like Mo Farah. Andy has enough of them now.

Aut0Gr4ph wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:What a Herculean physical effort by Andy Murray. He beats Djokovic in straight sets and anyone not willing to accept Andy is now the deserved No 1 is either blind or on the wind-up.

Only caveat is Novak is still holder of 2 slams to Andy's one. However, if you accept a ranking system where points are awarded across all tournaments, you can't really argue. Ranking points aside, I think WTF and Olympics more than compensates for the slam deficit. I know it's greedy, but such a shame that Andy couldn't capitalise at the US. Looking back that was a golden opportunity to bolster his slam count.

Yes Novak won two and Andy one but lets not forget the early 3rd Round defeat at Wimbledon for Novak. Andy's worst slam saw him go two rounds further at the US Open.

Congrats Murray fans, fully deserves the year end number one slot. I suspect Djokovic is slightly relieved his year is over. I fear it could be the beginning of the end for him.

Just have to hope he comes back revitalised next year but either way he has already achieved everything and more than any novsk fan could have realistically expected from him.

I think his long career and endless battes with federer and nadal have taken a toll. He has lost his mental edge and I see a player now that doesn't seem to enjoy the game as much anymore, it is evident in his lack of conviction on his shots and his body language.

The one thing that makes me confident of a possible return for Novak is he has shown great fortitude in the past pre 2011 and come back strong. I am just not sure his body will allow him

Well done Murray though, this is his moment to shine and he has paid his dues

Yes. That's two wins out of the last three meetings, 3-2 to Novak for the year so i think we have a genuine rivalry for the next couple of years  (injury permitting)

This has been a truly special day in the career of Andy Murray

He will go into next year unbeaten in 25 matches (is it?), as world No 1 and on the crest of a wave.

I'd be incredibly surprised if this was the end for Novak. Only six months ago he held all 4 slams and since then, despite the drop off in form, he's still managed a Masters title and a slam and WTF runners up.

He's had a few niggly injuries and, allegedly, some pretty serious personal problems. Staying on top for such a long time is an amazing feat and this mental letdown is no great surprise. If he can regroup and rediscover his mojo over the off seasonr, he will still be a major force. Age and wear and tear may be a factor, but let's not forget that he's still the youngest of his major rivals.

Pleased for Murray. I've really warmed to him over the years. Definitely the best player in the world, a good ambassador for British tennis and seemingly a nice guy too.
Only thing I wish he would stop are the "come on's" on opponents errors.

Djokovic was gracious in defeat as he always is. But I think it's the beginning of the end for him. It's Murrays era I feel.

Popped in to say CONGRATULATIONS to Andy and his fans.
He is just getting better and better and his No.1. ranking is well deserved.
What an accomplishment. Well done

Haddie-nuff wrote:Popped in to say CONGRATULATIONS  to Andy and his fans.
He is just getting better and better and his No.1. ranking is well deserved.
What an accomplishment. Well done

Hello stranger.

I am bouncing.

Jermaine2015 wrote:Djokovic was imperious and playing like the true world #1. Murray's been beating the lesser likes such as Tsonga, Dimitrov, Bautista Agut and Isner. Djokovic is a total different level and coupled with the knowledge Murray is the Serb's Bitch. Djokovic in straight sets.

Oh deary deary me.

I will await your hearty congratulations for Andy Murray - world No 1, three times slam winner, Davis Cup winner, World Tour Finals winner, year ending No 1 and double Olympic Champion.

Congrats Murray, YE no.1 finally. What more, beating all five top eight guys (four of them top five!) to get the job done. A worthy champion and YE no.1.

Huge well done Andy. Kept focus for full match and didn't let any small setbacks unsettle him. Year end number 1. Fully deserved.

Great for Andy to finish No.1 and what a way he did it,the last six months were unbelievable.

Titles: Murray 9 (career best); Djokovic 7
Match win-loss record: Murray 78-9 (career best); Djokovic 65-9
Longest winning streaks: Murray 24 (Sept 18-ongoing); Djokovic 14 (Jan 4-Feb 25)
Prize money: Murray £10.79m; Djokovic £10.23m

Says it all.

Well all the trolls have gone a bit quiet

"But he hasn't been beating top ten players" - beats four in a week (before today).
"But he hasn't beaten Djokovic" - dispatches him in two fairly routine sets.

Congrats to Murray, it's been a stellar year, and this wrapped it up as it deserved to be. First win indoors against Djokovic also.

YE n°1

Absolutely chuffed Murray fan tonight! I can't believe how well he's played given the circumstances. From 2-2 in the first set up to 4-1 in the second set was Andy at his best.

Interestingly in his interview afterwards he said he didn't think he'd do it. He said he was shattered and was sure he wouldn't have the energy.

Through all the painful slam final defeats I always backed him to win slams and beat the best players in the big games... but I must admit, I never thought he'd be number 1.

Only 17 players have ever been year end world number 1. Incredible Andy.

Well done to Murray and his fans. Deservedly won and #1 based on second half of year performance.

That said, something is amiss with Djokovic, his game just seems to lack the same bite it used to have. All I can say is "850 rule"...it's the mind that goes not the legs. I suspect he'll never be the same level again because I'm not sure the hunger is the same.

Anyway, congrats to the Murray camp and fans. Hopefully this year hasn't taken it out of Murray either as 850 approaches for him too! (He's on 800)

lydian wrote:Well done to Murray and his fans. Deservedly won and #1 based on second half of year performance.

That said, something is amiss with Djokovic, his game just seems to lack the same bite it used to have. All I can say is "850 rule"...it's the mind that goes not the legs. I suspect he'll never be the same level again because I'm not sure the hunger is the same.

Anyway, congrats to the Murray camp and fans. Hopefully this year hasn't taken it out of Murray either as 850 approaches for him too! (He's on 800)

Cheers lydian.

I will stand by my lack of motivation theory being Novak's problem and that has led to losses which have led to loss of confidence which in turn leads to more errors when the pressure is applied.

Officially into a weak era. One guy cruises to two major championships, drubbing yet chump pretending to be the current #1. After achieving the Holy Grail(winning Roland Garros and 4 straight majors) his form falls away. The chump proceeds to cash in when the Big 3 fade from the picture.

Murray lucked out. Weak #1 and pathetic record in major finals.

Yep CC...his motivation after achieving the career slam has definitely waned. Plus he now has this ridiculous 'guru' in his corner - what's all that about, clearly he's soul searching which suggests not all is well in his world given that he's questioning life's fundamentals. It's a dangerous place for any sportsman to be in. I reckon he's mentally a busted flush TBH at the very highest level.

It's certainly a good time for Murray to be peaking with the big 3 on the wane. But then that was always going to happen and someone has to eventually take over, so why not Murray - he's certainly been playing the best level of current players/landscape and he can only do what's required and in front of him to get to the top.

Interesting times in tennis, feels like a real transition to a different era now.

Murray beat the players who will next week be ranked 6-5-4-3-2 in that order. Doubt that has ever happened before!

For sure but that's a statistical oddity right...it's not like Federer, Sampras and others weren't capable of it given their records, the landscape just never fell that way.

Have to say that for someone who by early June held all 4 slams and was 8000 points ahead of Murray, Djokovic's fall from the top has been nothing short of spectacular.

900 points clear too!

LuvSports! wrote:900 points clear too!

I could be wrong, but I think that's before his last year DC points drop off (275) and in fact he's a bit more than 600 points clear. Still a decent enough lead (means for instance he would stay n°1 after AO if he reaches semis and Djokovic retains the title), and considering Djokovic won all the big ones (except MC) up to RG, Murray has a chance to increase that lead over the first half of the year.

Obviously things can change very quickly, but I'd be surprised if Murray doen't stay n°1 until Wimbledon at least...

World Number One with over 12,000 ranking points. An incredible season for Andy and well deserved after all the hard work he has put in.

Jermaine2015 wrote:Officially into a weak era. One guy cruises to two major championships, drubbing yet chump pretending to be the current #1. After achieving the Holy Grail(winning Roland Garros and 4 straight majors) his form falls away. The chump proceeds to cash in when the Big 3 fade from the picture.

Murray lucked out. Weak #1 and pathetic record in major finals.

Jermaine2015 - I'm sure you've heard the expression 'ahead of the curve' , but it must be said that you're a long way behind it.

In the old days of the original 606, your oddball comments might have gained some traction and you possibly could have had a bit of fun. But back then, there was a lot of similar school playground stuff, about various players, from various posters. The likes of Unbiased Educator (along with his many alter egos/pseudonyms) would waffle on endlessly about how Federer wasn't really a top player. It was often amusing (even though nobody actually took him seriously).

The tennis section may have a lot less activity and fewer regular contributors these days. But those who do come here, come to discuss tennis rather than waste time & effort sniping at players whose success they bitterly resent.

That said, you could always exchange PM's with hawkeye if you're looking for a kindred spirit. I imagine hawkeye would welcome the company since Murray's climb to the top. ........

lags72 wrote:

Jermaine2015 wrote:Officially into a weak era. One guy cruises to two major championships, drubbing yet chump pretending to be the current #1. After achieving the Holy Grail(winning Roland Garros and 4 straight majors) his form falls away. The chump proceeds to cash in when the Big 3 fade from the picture.

Murray lucked out. Weak #1 and pathetic record in major finals.

Jermaine2015 - I'm sure you've heard the expression 'ahead of the curve' , but it must be said that you're a long way behind it.

In the old days of the original 606, your oddball comments might have gained some traction and you possibly could have had a bit of fun. But back then, there was a lot of similar school playground stuff, about various players, from various posters. The likes of Unbiased Educator (along with his many alter egos/pseudonyms) would waffle on endlessly about how Federer wasn't really a top player. It was often amusing (even though nobody actually took him seriously).

The tennis section may have a lot less activity and fewer regular contributors these days. But those who do come here, come to discuss tennis rather than waste time & effort sniping at players whose success they bitterly resent.

That said, you could always exchange PM's with hawkeye if you're looking for a kindred spirit. I imagine hawkeye would welcome the company since Murray's climb to the top. ........

Feel free to explain why the mental midget Murray has never beaten two of the big 3 in the same major? Del Potro done it. Wawrinka done it twice. Feel free to explain why Murray only reached #1 after the big 3 faded away. If Murray is so good(he isn't) why couldn't he get to #1 by beating the big boys? Instead he lucked out when Djokovic faded. Murray is a pretend #1 nothing more.

Just caught the match. At first I found it a bit dull, the match up between these two isn't always lively in terms of variety and tactics. However when Murray started getting ahead it started getting interesting. Djokovic just made too many errors.

However, when the score was 3-1 to Murray I got to thinking, after having his serve broken twice in a row at the end of a set against Raonic, surely Djokovic was capable of breaking 1 from 3, even if he hadn't been doing it before in the match.

That tremendous backhand pass - amazing speed at such an angle from so deep - I'm not sure if it was a percentage play really, or if he was backed into a corner he had to try a low percentage play, in any case it was a spectacular moment, to bring up 1-3 0-40 was what won the match for me, that was just too far ahead.

Djokovic may have just lost the chance for a couple of records there.

He's now stuck on 4 year end no 1s, behind Federer/Connors at 5 and Sampras at 6. A win today was needed to have a realistic chance of beating Sampras, or at least equalling. I should say that Pancho Gonzalez might have had 7 year end no 1s had there been a ranking system in his day.

He also is now stuck on 5 world tour finals, one behind Federer. He still has a great chance to at least equal the Fed, but to stand alone at 7 now looks a challenge. 2 more needed.

To be fair you would never have imagined that he would even get close to challenging for these 2 records if you had suggested that at the end of 2010, people would have thought you mad.

Despite all Djokovic's dominance fading away at the slams and now in the ranking, one thing does still remain: slam head to head against Murray. Djokovic is 8-2 overall including the last five.

Will be interesting to see if they meet at the AO, the slam largely responsible for Djokovic's slam lead and at which he has some of his more routine victories in this head to head.
AO 5-0
FO 2-0
Wimbledon 0-1
US Open 1-1

I think Murray could do it but would be interesting to see them play at the AO.

Excellent to see the WTF played on a quicker court. No coincidence that Murray was then able to beat Novak here. 

Generally, a much better WTF then we have seen for a number of years. The group of death produced 4 compelling matches and even Novak v Raonic was a good match.

Congrats to Andy, well done and an amazing year.  I was unable to watch the match today which is a shame - it is not very often that the players meeting in the WTF final are fighting for the YE #1 spot.

I did not think Andy would make #1, he proved me wrong.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:Popped in to say CONGRATULATIONS  to Andy and his fans.
He is just getting better and better and his No.1. ranking is well deserved.
What an accomplishment. Well done

Hello stranger.

I am bouncing.

Hi CC .. I bet you are.. what a change in Andys mental attitude.. I knew when he got his act together his tennis would talk for him. Glad for you CC take care

Honestly didn't think Andy would have the energy for the final push but he played an attacking game and served far better than he did against Raonic.
Amid the euphoria - at least for Murray fans - it must be said that Djoko was well below his best. There were some flashes of the old Nole and he played better towards the end, but the spark was not there, there were far too many UEs, his serve looked weak and HE, rather than Murray, looked as if he'd had the long match the day before.
Now Andy can chalk up the weeks-at-the-top until at least the end of January. By my calculations, even if Andy falters at the AO he could/should regain the number one spot around the time of IW/Miami where he has very few points to defend.

I don't think there is any doubt that Murray will be number one until Wimbledon next year as Djokovic has a rake of points to defend. The tough part for Murray will be Wimbledon onwards, that will give Novak his best chance to get back to number one.

However the alarming drop in Novaks game means that is even unlikely. I am at a loss for words as to how low Novak's game has fallen off in recent month. It also doesn't say much for the current standard of mens tennis that Novak got to the final with such ease and was unbeaten. He played woeful and still managed to beat Raonic, Goffin and Nishikori in straight sets.

Djokovic needs to find a way to enjoy his tennis again and get motivated, he looks lost at sea and is clearly not enjoying the game anymore. He used to have such fire within and even when he got frustrated it brought out his best tennis. Now he looks like he would rather be anywhere except the tennis court.

Murray is loving the game clearly, he is in the form of his life and will be very tough to stop!

I would also like to add that what Murray has done has been really impressive. People need to stop taking digs at the guy. This is a player that has shown remarkable consistency over the years, that kept reaching the latter stages of slams and had the door shut firmly in his face time and again.

It takes incredible character and resolve to come back from that type of disappointment and adversity and to reach number one is arguably his biggest achievement. I don't claim to be a Murray fan but I do respect everything he has achieved. He has developed his game to adapt to all surfaces (if you had asked me a couple of years ago I wouldn't have been surprised if he never won a tournament on clay).

I just hope Djokovic can get back to his very best, not just because I am a big fan but because I think it is great for the game of tennis. The top players need their rivals playing at their top level to keep their own motivation.

For me the Australian open will be important for both players, should Murray win it his confidence will soar and he will have a strong mindset heading into 2017. However a unique challenge he will now have is that he will be very much the hunted and the spotlight will be on him more than ever before.

In the case of Djokovic, I hope he can use the off season to take a break and then get back to the basics and enjoy the game again. If he does and he hits the ground running in January, he could still be a big threat but he needs to build his confidence back and remember what he achieved as recently as June this year !! No tournament brings back more fond memories for Novak than the Australian open and that is why it could prove crucial as to how his 2017 pans out. Were he to win it beating Murray in the process, who is to say that he couldn't get back to his best.

At this point I see it as highly unlikely, however if you asked me how many slams Novak would win back in 2010, I would have said 6-8 slams. 12 would have been beyond unrealistic!!

one last time, huge congrats to all Murray fans ! This has made 2017 a big unknown, how will he Andy deal with the pressure of being number one and the hunted. Time will tell but nobody can take that year end number one from him regardless.

slashermcguirk wrote:I would also like to add that what Murray has done has been really impressive. People need to stop taking digs at the guy. This is a player that has shown remarkable consistency over the years, that kept reaching the latter stages of slams and had the door shut firmly in his face time and again.

It takes incredible character and resolve to come back from that type of disappointment and adversity and to reach number one is arguably his biggest achievement. I don't claim to be a Murray fan but I do respect everything he has achieved. He has developed his game to adapt to all surfaces (if you had asked me a couple of years ago I wouldn't have been surprised if he never won a tournament on clay).

I just hope Djokovic can get back to his very best, not just because I am a big fan but because I think it is great for the game of tennis. The top players need their rivals playing at their top level to keep their own motivation.

For me the Australian open will be important for both players, should Murray win it his confidence will soar and he will have a strong mindset heading into 2017. However a unique challenge he will now have is that he will be very much the hunted and the spotlight will be on him more than ever before.

In the case of Djokovic, I hope he can use the off season to take a break and then get back to the basics and enjoy the game again. If he does and he hits the ground running in January, he could still be a big threat but he needs to build his confidence back and remember what he achieved as recently as June this year !! No tournament brings back more fond memories for Novak than the Australian open and that is why it could prove crucial as to how his 2017 pans out. Were he to win it beating Murray in the process, who is to say that he couldn't get back to his best.

At this point I see it as highly unlikely, however if you asked me how many slams Novak would win back in 2010, I would have said 6-8 slams. 12 would have been beyond unrealistic!!

one last time, huge congrats to all Murray fans ! This has made 2017 a big unknown, how will he Andy deal with the pressure of being number one and the hunted. Time will tell but nobody can take that year end number one from him regardless.

Great post.

Just to add that players (ALL of them) have dips in their careers. Rafa is having one, Novak also is having one, Murray had his a year or two ago when I wrote my epitaph thread and Roger also. The same goes for every generation of tennis players. Some of these dips spell the beginning of a terminal decline but some don't.

Novak's issue is motivational for me. He strikes me as a person who'd rather be somewhere else at present. In the past as long rallies developed he'd dig in for the long haul and outlast whoever was on the other side of the net or end it with a crazy sliding passing shot. At present he is pulling the trigger at the wrong times and missing in a rush to end the point early when the chance isn't there in a bid to shorten the rally and time on court perhaps? He was losing yesterday and there were no tantrums or smashing of rackets even when missing nightmare shots - is that what you expect to see from someone who cares?

Between now and the start of the 2017 season Novak needs to sort out his mental mindset and hope to re-engage with tennis. Also I wonder if Boris Becker is to stay onboard as rumour has it the partnership is close to ending. That is another matter though - for now Novak needs to take time out for a few weeks and rediscover that burning desire.

Well said CC, I think you have it spot on !

Enjoy the off season, Murray has done you and the real murray fans out there proud. Expect you to take inspiration from it and be out there with a tennis racket in hand over the winter !!

Well the news is apparently that Rafa is having a hair transplant in Madrid can you believe ????
Lets hope it has the reverse affect that Samson had on the loss of his

Strength to the left arm then Rafa take advantage of the Djokovic decline

A hair transplant?! Oh well it takes all sorts of course, and he has been rather thinning on the top recently (so has Murray, incidentally). In all seriousness, it might not be such a silly idea: the mental aspect of tennis is such a key one, and getting your head in the right place off the court is a part of that. If losing his hair is affecting Nadal mentally, then it could be a good decision...

I think it's more than just motivation with Novak. He's clearly had some physical issues and also the strong suggestion of some form of personal issue with his marriage. I suspect it's a combination of factors leading to his poor form.

That said, I said on Lydian's thread back in April (about Murray's failings against the top guys) that I felt he was closing the gap to Novak and that the improvements (particularly in his serve this year) gave him a real shot. Faster courts particularly give him a great shot against Novak.

2017 promises much all-round. There's a lot to look forward to when Australia comes around.

Born Slippy wrote:I think it's more than just motivation with Novak. He's clearly had some physical issues and also the strong suggestion of some form of personal issue with his marriage. I suspect it's a combination of factors leading to his poor form.

That said, I said on Lydian's thread back in April (about Murray's failings against the top guys) that I felt he was closing the gap to Novak and that the improvements (particularly in his serve this year) gave him a real shot. Faster courts particularly give him a great shot against Novak.

2017 promises much all-round. There's a lot to look forward to when Australia comes around.

I wouldn't say injury was the reason. The dip began post-French Open and Novak has openly said that once the euphoria died down a week or two after winning at RG he felt flat and he was asking himself now what? That was followed by an early exit at Wimbledon and he exited the Olympics in the first round in tears. He won a somewhat watered down Cincinatti Masters but more surprising losses followed and he spoke of the need to get back to enjoying his tennis again - nothing about injury. He also got a guru in which seems to have upset a few in his team to deal with mental issues. Too many glaring clues pointing to it being motivational more than anything else.