Aviva Premiership Round Seven

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Friday 28/10/16 1945


Northampton Saints vs Gloucester Rugby, Franklin Gardens

Northampton: Foden; Wilson, G Pisi, Mallinder North; Myler, Dickson; Waller, Haywood, Brookes, Lawes, Day, Wood (capt), Clark, Picamoles.


Replacements: Hartley, Waller, Hill, Paterson, Gibson, Kessell, Hutchinson, Tuala.




Gloucester: Hook; Sharples, Scott, Atkinson, May; Twelvetrees, Laidlaw (capt); McAllister, Hibbard, Afoa, Savage, Galarza, Moriarty, Rowan, Morgan.


Replacements: Matu'u, Orr, Ma'afu, Latta, Kvesic, Heinz, Burns, Purdy.


Referee: Tom Foley



Saints have been unimaginative and well off their best this season, with no apparent consistent approach to using the ball and often a backline lacking in spark. Gloucester have been deeply inconsistent, with a bizarre number of draws. However, I do expect a bit more from Saints with a potentially great backrow out and Mallinder adding some flexibility and subtlety to the midfield. Interestingly Hartley begins as a sub, so let's hope that he gets some gametime to knock the rust off. Gloucester have a very promising backline but they seem to often have this without delivering the end product of fluency. With Laidlaw pulling the strings, they may pull it off, but if Saints play with any kind of coherent plan, I expect them to win 

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Saturday 29/10/16 1500

Harlequins vs Worcester Warriors, The Stoop

Harlequins: Brown; Yarde, Marchant, Stanley, Visser; Evans, Care (capt); Marler, Buchanan, Collier, Matthews, Horwill, Robshaw, Wallace, J Chisholm.


Replacements: Gray, Lambert, Jones, Luamanu, Ward, Dickson, Swiel, Alofa.




Worcester: Shillcock; Pennell, Willison, Te'o, Hammond; Lamb, Arr; Rapava Ruskin, Bregvadze, Schonert, O'Callaghan, Barry, Faosiliva, Kirwan, Dowson (capt).


Replacements: Annett, Leleimalefaga, Johnston, Hewitt, Potgieter, Baldwin, Adams, Olivier




Referee: Luke Pearce (RFU






Both sides really hit by injuries, with Hougard, Heem, Vuna, Heathcote and Biggs some of the 15 players missing for Warriors and Quins especially in trouble in the centres (plus oddly resting Roberts to make life easier for Wales!) and the second row. Warriors left Quins heartbroken in this fixture last season but right now Quins are playing well at home and unbeaten there whilst Worcester are struggling a tad. If this were away, I would be very nervous indeed as a Harlequins supporter, but barring mindless rugby played from our 22, I am confident we should win this one. Worcester still have enough ability, with Pennell and Te'o back and Shillcock playing brilliantly, to ruin the party.

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Saracens vs Leicester Tigers, Allianz Park


Saracens: Goode; Maitland, Tompkins, Barritt (capt), Wyles; Farrell, Spencer; M Vunipola, George, Figallo, Rhodes, Hamilton, Wray, Burger, B Vunipola.


Replacements: Brits, Barrington, Du Plessis, Flanagan, Brown, Wigglesworth, Lozowski, Bosch.




Leicester: Tait; Thompstone, Betham, Roberts, Pietersen; O Williams, B Youngs; Ayerza, T Youngs (capt), Cole, Slater, Fitzgerald, O'Connor, McCaffrey.


Replacements: McGuigan, Genge, Mulipola, Hamilton, Evans, Harrison, Burns, Catchpole.


Referee: Wayne Barnes.


Saracens have a big loss even in their deep resources in the pack with England pairing Itoje and Kruis out, but even with rotation their backline and backrow looks very strong and if anything more exciting than their previous lineups. At Allianz Park, with the AstroTurf factor and the fortress mentality, it's hard to see any side beating them. Leicester's biggest woes are at centre, with world class Toomua out all season and Manu still away. They've been mixed this season, and I don't think will spring a surprise this weekend.

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Sunday 30/10/16 1430

Wasps vs Newcastle Falcons, the Ricoh Arena

Wasps: Miller; Wade, Daly, Eastmond, Halai; Gopperth, Simpson; Mullan, Johnson, Moore, Launchbury (c), Myall, Rieder, Thompson, Hughes.


Replacements: Cruse, Bristow, Cooper-Woolley, Symons, Gaskell, Robson, Cipriani, Leiua.




Newcastle: Hammersley; Watson, Waldouck, Socino, Sinoti; Delany, Young; Lockwood, Sowrey, Welsh, Green, Olmstead, Wilson, Welch (c), Chick.


Replacements: Lawson, Vickers, Wilson, Witty, Hogg, Takulua, Hodgson, Burdon.

Referee: Craig Maxwell-Keys


Wasps have been somewhat hyped up this season but generally with good reason. It's interesting to see Robson and Cipriani benched and this smells of rotation to me. Newcastle do hold some dangers in their backline but Wasps' injury ravaged backrow is still full of quality (with Johnson at hooker adding heft) and this battle will win them the match.  

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Sunday 30/10/16 1500

Exeter Chiefs vs Bath, Sandy Park

Exeter: Turner; Woodburn, Whitten, Slade, Short; Steenson (capt), Lewis; Low, Yeandle, Williams, Lees, Parling, Dennis, Horstmann, Waldrom.


Replacements: Taione, Rimmer, Francis, Hill, White, Maunder, Hill, Devoto.




Bath: Homer; Rokoduguni, Joseph, Banahan, Brew; Ford (co-capt), Fotuali'i; Auterac, Batty, Thomas, Charteris, Attwood, Garvey (co-capt), Ellis, Ewels.


Replacements: Dunn, Lahiff, Palma-Newport, Stooke, Mercer, Homer, Priestland, Williams.

Referee: Ian Tempest




I put Bath and Exeter in fairly similar places at the moment, so would usually back the home side in this Derby of sorts. However, despite liking Slade at 12, Exeter look a little understrength throughout the side, and Bath strong outside of a makeshift backrow. With Fotauali'i and Ford clicking and a canny coach, I think Bath will steal an away win with a bit of imagination from their backline 

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Bristol vs Sale Sharks, Ashton Gate


Bristol Rugby  


15. Jordan Williams; 14. Ryan Edwards, 13. Will Hurrell, 12. Gavin Henson, 11. David Lemi; 10. Shane Geraghty, 9. Will Cliff; 1. Kyle Traynor, 2. Chris Brooker, 3. Anthony Perenise, 4. James Phillips, 5. Mark Sorenson, 6. Mitch Eadie, 7. Jon Fisher, 8. Jordan Crane (c).


Replacements: 16. Rob Hawkins, 17. Soane Tonga’uiha, 18. Gaston Cortes, 19. Ian Evans, 20. Ben Glynn, 21. Jack Lam, 22. Rhodri Williams, 23. Jack Tovey.




Sale Sharks


15. Mike Haley, 14. Byron McGuigan, 13. Will Addison, 12. Johnny Leota, 11. Paolo Odogwu, 10. Sam James, 9. Peter Stringer, 1. Ross Harrison, 2. Neil Briggs, 3. Halani Aulika, 4. Bryn Evans, 5. Andrei Ostrikov, 6. Cameron Neild, 7. Magnus Lund, 8. Josh Beaumont (c)

Replacements: 16. Eifion Lewis-Roberts, 17. Brian Mujati, 18. Jonathan Mills, 19. David Seymour, 20. Tom Curry, 21. Mike Phillips, 22. Dan Mugford, 23. Mark Jennings




Referee: JP Doyle




Sale haven't been winning many plaudits this season (or since they lost Charlie Hodgson really) but have a fairly handy backline with lesser known but skilled players like Haley (congrats on the England call up), Addison and James and the ultimate facilitator at 9 in Stringer. With an excellent lineout as well, they should have the platform to overthrow Bristol, still struggling with the pace of the Premiership, away. Henson does make Bristol a surprising amount better as a side, and I see some potential (some old and some new) in the Bristol back 3 and back row but can't look past an away win




Sorry this isn't that good, guys, but thought it would be nice to have a hub to discuss this weekend's games with LT away!

I reckon wins for Saints, Quins, Sarries, Wasps, Exeter (narrow) and Sale.

Well, Saints just about won, congratulations to them in a messy game!

I just hope we don't play the flipping kicking game. If we do we will be royally shafted!

If we try to play at least we'll have a go at them.

Saracens Leicester is free to watch on BT sports by the way.

That game last night was bad, like two overweight, out of shape amateur boxers drunkenly swinging at each other but just hugging angrily.

Very accurate imagery yappy!

Hopefully today's offerings will be better.

I promise it'll be like watching Jedi sparring

No, wait, NINJA-Jedi!

yappysnap wrote:I promise it'll be like watching Jedi sparring

No, wait, NINJA-Jedi!

HIMYM reference?

yappysnap wrote:I promise it'll be like watching Jedi sparring

No, wait, NINJA-Jedi!

Glad to hear it - I think!!

So annoying playing against sarries although you have to respect them. Still think they should get pinged more for being on the wrong side of the breakdown an awful lot of the time

They've learned that from the ABs - they get away an awful lot with taking out defenders who are a yard or more behind the ruck - I always thought you had to be part of the ruck to be cleared out but apparently not ...

Happy with a solid Quins win, seemed hard work in first half resulted in scores in the second. Marler needs to be careful with his discipline

ChequeredJersey wrote:Happy with a solid Quins win, seemed hard work in first half resulted in scores in the second. Marler needs to be careful with his discipline

Yep, as I thought unfortunately but Quins very worthy winners in the second half.

Regarding Marler I agree. Love him in an England jersey but he was annoying when you're against him. I guess that's what he does though.

Brown looked sharp as did your England youngster - forget his name. Thought Teo looked class for Wuss.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

yappysnap wrote:I promise it'll be like watching Jedi sparring

No, wait, NINJA-Jedi!

HIMYM reference?

Well spotted

Heaf wrote:They've learned that from the ABs - they get away an awful lot with taking out defenders who are a yard or more behind the ruck - I always thought you had to be part of the ruck to be cleared out but apparently not ...

This and all their dummy runners/blockers make them very hard to play against. Especially if like Tigers were you're not physical enough and can't create chances from pretty much nothing.

Tigers atrocious kicking game didn't help either.

yappysnap wrote:

Heaf wrote:They've learned that from the ABs - they get away an awful lot with taking out defenders who are a yard or more behind the ruck - I always thought you had to be part of the ruck to be cleared out but apparently not ...

This and all their dummy runners/blockers make them very hard to play against. Especially if like Tigers were you're not physical enough and can't create chances from pretty much nothing.

Tigers atrocious kicking game didn't help either.

And their scrum.

It would have been interesting to see George and Youngs swap jerseys as I think one has a huge positive effect on the scrum and the other very little. I don't rate Figallo or Mako too highly in the set piece but they got on top yesterday, I'd love to know what impact George is having.

Not sure the ref in the Chiefs Bath game understands when a ruck is formed and when it isn't ...

I get really sick of refs micro-analysing every try to look for a reason to not give it.

Really kills some of the magic of the game imo.

What happened to the beginning of the season and refs using the tmo less? Seems forgotten about now.

Heaf wrote:Not sure the ref in the Chiefs Bath game understands when a ruck is formed and when it isn't ...

Plus his take on charge downs

Turned over to watch London Irish v London Scottish.  What happened with a charge down?

yappysnap wrote:I get really sick of refs micro-analysing every try to look for a reason to not give it.

Really kills some of the magic of the game imo.

What happened to the beginning of the season and refs using the tmo less? Seems forgotten about now.

Agree 100% sometimes they go back so many phases it seems that they are looking for an excuse not to award a try.

Agree it's really frustrating.

On the flip side, we had a legitimate try wiped out because the ref spotted the final pass to be forward and stopped play before Hogg had the chance to ground. On the replays it was shown to be a perfectly fine pass.....

Heaf wrote:Turned over to watch London Irish v London Scottish.  What happened with a charge down?

He forgot (I think he didn't know tbh) that a charge down puts all players on side. Was looking to penalise the kickers team for not retreating before getting set straight by his touch judge.

stub wrote:

yappysnap wrote:I get really sick of refs micro-analysing every try to look for a reason to not give it.

Really kills some of the magic of the game imo.

What happened to the beginning of the season and refs using the tmo less? Seems forgotten about now.

Agree 100% sometimes they go back so many phases it seems that they are looking for an excuse not to award a try.

Exactly, we started the season with a clear directive that this wasn't to happen so often, now we've crept back to it again. Likewise refs penalising back chat. Before that we had a brief stint of penalising wonky scrum feeds

Pees me off how refs can't seem to stick to their own directives for more then a month before giving up.

Also 87 mins of rugby. Wow! If only it'd been good/skilful/high quality...

How was the falcons game?

I'm away in Australia on holiday so not had much coverage

nathan wrote:So annoying playing against sarries although you have to respect them. Still think they should get pinged more for being on the wrong side of the breakdown an awful lot of the time

Can't say I missed not seeing that one. At least we stopped them getting a TBP.

Sam indeed you did stop Saracens getting the TBP but I think Tigers could have given themselves a better chance of winning if they had started Burns. He gave Tigers a confidence and go forward in attack.

Starting well is of course what every team wants but Saracens are obviously one of the best teams at defending a lead.

I actually thought that Leicester played better than both Exeter and Bath, certainly managed to keep hold of the ball better though the kicking was very bad.

I would have given the man of the match award to Brad Barritt - his workrate was very good. Must have made at least 15 tackles. Gave good forward. He's also the best back to put in a scrum when a forward is off the pitch.

IMO Ugo is a bad pundit. One clip he showed was meant to be Tigers being great in attack, in that clip Tigers got nowhere. Didn't realise that Barritt was helping out in a scrum as he always does when Sarries lose a man in the pack. Also he just makes inane comments.



As for Ford Jr, he showed his strengths and weaknesses. Couldn't yet trust him as England goal kicker, missed two easy kicks vs Exeter. He did show good aspects of his play though and of course helped create the winning try.

I thought James Short shackled Roko well for most of the game but when Short was off the field, Roko became more influential and so it proved fatal for Exeter.

Slade looked good and hopefully he gets some gametime in the AIs.

Yeh about Tigers I'm pretty pleased on the whole.

The defence was solid for large chunks of the game IMO, the attack made progress when we where calm we marched up the field at time with multiple phases.

We have played worse esp at AP, and IMO one of the better showing at Saracens this season the thing that let us down was hands going missing at key moments Youngs and Genge both knocking on at the Sarries 5M line pointless kicking at set pieces.

Saracens yes are having a lock crisis but Rhodes and Hamilton not exactly shabby.

Tigers kicking was terrible, Youngs in particular looked like he'd been coached by Danny Care. Rest of their game was pretty good but seemed to lack belief that they could go get the win, which is odd for a Leicester team.

yappysnap wrote:Tigers kicking was terrible, Youngs in particular looked like he'd been coached by Danny Care. Rest of their game was pretty good but seemed to lack belief that they could go get the win, which is odd for a Leicester team.

We have a mind set against plastic pitches which is doing this.

It doesn't help when Cockers and senior players like Slater moan about hem to the press, they are here and a few words isn't going to change that.

beshocked wrote:Sam indeed you did stop Saracens getting the TBP but I think Tigers could have given themselves a better chance of winning if they had started Burns. He gave Tigers a confidence and go forward in attack.

Starting well is of course what every team wants but Saracens are obviously one of the best teams at defending a lead.

I actually thought that Leicester played better than both Exeter and Bath, certainly managed to keep hold of the ball better though the kicking was very bad.

I would have given the man of the match award to Brad Barritt - his workrate was very good. Must have made at least 15 tackles. Gave good forward. He's also the best back to put in a scrum when a forward is off the pitch.

IMO Ugo is a bad pundit. One clip he showed was meant to be Tigers being great in attack, in that clip Tigers got nowhere. Didn't realise that Barritt was helping out in a scrum as he always does when Sarries lose a man in the pack. Also he just makes inane comments.

That's been the case with Burns when he's come for each of the last 3 weeks since coming back from injury. Our attack looked much better early season before he got injured. Owen just isn't hitting his straps so far this season, his tactical kicking especially has been poor.

I don't think I'm alone in often wondering whether Barritt would have made a much better flanker than 12. He's an excellent club 12 in the Sarries systems but I do wonder if he could have been more than that as a blindside being told to tackle anything that moves, hit rucks and act as a link man for the backs.

Agreed on Ugo. He's a likely bloke but rarely has anything of interest to say. A mate the other week described him as the anti Austin Healey because of it!

king carlos fair point about Barritt but he plays an important role.

Well I was impressed by Burns, just needs to maintain that form.

I really like Austin Healey as a pundit. I am sure I wouldn't want to have been in the same rugby team as him but as you say he's always got interesting things to say.

I am sure Ugo is a nice bloke but he's just not suited to being a pundit, sometimes he just talks for the sake of it when saying something occasionally but smart would be better. He's not telling me anything insightful. There's plenty I don't know but Ugo states things that even non rugby fans would be able to see.

He's better than Dawson was, at least. With him I always got the feeling that he never actually watched any rugby except for the games he was paid to turn up to.

I think he can improve, I wasn't keen on Dallaglio at first but I think he's much better now. Well, he is when he's not commentating on Wasps.

https://twitter.com/OptaJonny/status/793085561946927104

I thought Barritt had made a lot of tackles, 24 was his total.

Most recorded by a back in premiership rugby since Opta collected Data.

Bristol look truly awful, as bad as London Welsh were when they last came up.  I know it's a big jump from the Championship to the Premiership, but their defence would ship points in the Championship as well.

My gut feel about LEicester's kicking at the weekend was that:

1) They were incompetent at trying to win balls back so....

2) The guys were kicking as long as possible just to give the defence a breather.



I just feel it was a result of the defensive pressure.


Burns is, for me, a much better 10 that Williams - however he is susceptible to serious brainfarts at times. Owen is struggling to time his punts at the moment and whiel standing very flat in attack seems hesitant in his actions which is mana from heaven for n aggressive defence.

I thought we were going to lose by 28 points so as it turned out we did rather better than that.

Burns looks great when teams tire before half time and from 60 mins on. The issue is he tends not to control the game particularly well and overplay in his own half. Williams doesn't have Burns endless confidence and so can second guess himself and just take the ball into contact when under pressure.

Kicking wise it is hit and miss from both. Burns will kick once or twice to the corner ROG style and then aimlessly bomb everything else unless one of his little chip and chase kicks is on. Williams has a fantastic kicking game but is often lazy and plays it safe by just smashing it deep, he's got a howitzer or a boot and he leans on that rather than being more inventive.