Is there a glimmer of hope for the lions

First topic message reminder :

All of a sudden the all blacks are not now invincible, still the best side on the planet but definitely not unbeatable . A huge part in their downfall yesterday besides the fact Ireland were absolutely amazing was the problems they had in the second row, that shouldn't be a problem next year but it will be an area of strength for the lions. Surly gatland is watching what happened in Chicago and can see areas where the blacks can be targeted that up until yesterday didn't seem possible. I know it's a huge ask, little preparation time but not now mission impossible.the blue print is there,more strength in depth all of a sudden I'm starting to have hope. Can the lions do it?

After Best's horror show on the 2013 tour I'm not sure he'll be in the plans this time around. It wasn't as bad as Earls' debut in 2009 (ye gods!) but it was close.

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:When is the Lions captain announced. Knowing Gatland it will be a welsh man or a Kiwi. So Warburton or Hartley.

However, Rory Best is the only current captain to have captained a country to victory over New Zealand. He also captained Ireland to victory over SA in SA. Surely he is throwing his hat into the ring now?

Wouldn't he have to be the best in his position though like AWJ is? I must have missed the headline 'Best bests New Zealand.' #onemanteam

I like AWJ but he is a fading force. I would 100% have him in the squad for sure but not as captain.

I dont think there is a better hooker in the NH that Best. Problem there isnt much difference in ability between the top Lions choices for hooker so it will be hotly debated. I just think he might just be the Best choice for captain.

Cyril wrote:After Best's horror show on the 2013 tour I'm not sure he'll be in the plans this time around. It wasn't as bad as Earls' debut in 2009 (ye gods!) but it was close.

No one played particularly well at hooker in 2013 and he far from the worst player on tour. That was Mike Philips.

GunsGerms wrote:

Cyril wrote:After Best's horror show on the 2013 tour I'm not sure he'll be in the plans this time around. It wasn't as bad as Earls' debut in 2009 (ye gods!) but it was close.

No one played particularly well at hooker in 2013

The best hooker was kicking his heels at home after being a naughty boy (again). Jamie George could easily be the top hooker come next year. He's a heck of a player.

Haha. Hartley had too many discipline issues to be considered. Unreliable.

Seems to have changed but given that the second row will likely be both English it probably should be Hartley. If Toner is selected then Id go with Best.

GunsGerms wrote:When is the Lions captain announced. Knowing Gatland it will be a welsh man or a Kiwi. So Warburton or Hartley.

However, Rory Best is the only current captain to have captained a country to victory over New Zealand. He also captained Ireland to victory over SA in SA. Surely he is throwing his hat into the ring now?

There is another guy still playing who was captain for a NH side who beat NZ....

It'll be Itoje,especially if he isn't captain of England by then as it'll be another thing against Gatland's name.

lostinwales wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:When is the Lions captain announced. Knowing Gatland it will be a welsh man or a Kiwi. So Warburton or Hartley.

However, Rory Best is the only current captain to have captained a country to victory over New Zealand. He also captained Ireland to victory over SA in SA. Surely he is throwing his hat into the ring now?

There is another guy still playing who was captain for a NH side who beat NZ....

I said current captain. Robshaw (?) isnt currently a captain and he hasnt a hope of being Lions captain though I do like him as a player.

No 7&1/2 wrote:It'll be Itoje,especially if he isn't captain of England by then as it'll be another thing against Gatland's name.

Oh you've made Beshocked a very happy man, 7

I take it back then! True though, Gatland love to go down in history (of rugby) by doing it.

Cyril wrote:After Best's horror show on the 2013 tour I'm not sure he'll be in the plans this time around. It wasn't as bad as Earls' debut in 2009 (ye gods!) but it was close.

Why - what happened to Keith Earls on the 2009 tour?

I read that Gatland is now batting his eyelashes playfully in Joe Schmidt's direction about the Lions tour for some reason, God knows why.....

And apparently, he has Farrell in consideration for his back-up coaching team due to be announced on Dec 7.

I can see a couple of Jumbo jets lining up on the runway next June as the expedition sets off. Woodward''s '05 entourage may look like a small tea party in comparison.

Saw that. He wants to ruin Ireland's 6N chances and ruin our growing rhythm. Still Welsh coach even when on sabbatical

Didn't he say we were very one dimensional and predictable under Joe? Now he wants Joe to help him add varnish to his own regal reputation. Come on, Gats, ain't you ready for this task?

Pot Hale wrote:

Cyril wrote:After Best's horror show on the 2013 tour I'm not sure he'll be in the plans this time around. It wasn't as bad as Earls' debut in 2009 (ye gods!) but it was close.

Why - what happened to Keith Earls on the 2009 tour?  

Surely you remember this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0yRPlA8bO8

Pot Hale wrote:I read that Gatland is now batting his eyelashes playfully in Joe Schmidt's direction about the Lions tour for some reason, God knows why.....

And apparently, he has Farrell in consideration for his back-up coaching team due to be announced on Dec 7.

I can see a couple of Jumbo jets lining up on the runway next June as the expedition sets off.  Woodward''s '05 entourage may look like a small tea party in comparison.    

Well with the itinerary you're going to need a larger squad.

Take a bunch of academy players. They'll enjoy the experience.

Pot Hale wrote:I read that Gatland is now batting his eyelashes playfully in Joe Schmidt's direction about the Lions tour for some reason, God knows why.....

And apparently, he has Farrell in consideration for his back-up coaching team due to be announced on Dec 7.

I can see a couple of Jumbo jets lining up on the runway next June as the expedition sets off.  Woodward''s '05 entourage may look like a small tea party in comparison.    

This bloating of the coaching staff is one reason I don't think Borthwick will go as forwards coach, it would require a seperate scrum coach on tour. It's actually a reason I could see Gatland going back to Rowntree. Wig's time with England may not have ended well but his work with the Lions was extremely well respected across both tours.

Head coach - Gatland
Backs coach - Townsend
Forwards coach - Rowntree
Defence coach - Farrell or Gustard

I'd be very happy with something like that.

Who takes Adam Beard's place as strength & conditioning coach will be interesting now he's working in the NFL. Bobby Stridgeon will be the likely candidate after being 'fitness coach' below Beard on the last 2 Lions tours and having run strength & conditioning for the RFU.

Cyril wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

Cyril wrote:After Best's horror show on the 2013 tour I'm not sure he'll be in the plans this time around. It wasn't as bad as Earls' debut in 2009 (ye gods!) but it was close.

Why - what happened to Keith Earls on the 2009 tour?  

Surely you remember this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0yRPlA8bO8

Yeah I do. He did okay in his other two matches if I recall rightly and maybe scored one or two. He was a young bolter - first match nerves as the commentators said. Best's performance was worse given his experience. He's a different more assured player now but I'd doubt he'd travel anyway. Himself and Gatland don't see eye to eye, and I'm sure there are other equally if not more capable hookers amongst the other teams.

I heard from someone on here (can't remember who) that Jamie George was the form hooker around at the moment.

His parents will be disappointed.

Pot Hale wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

Cyril wrote:After Best's horror show on the 2013 tour I'm not sure he'll be in the plans this time around. It wasn't as bad as Earls' debut in 2009 (ye gods!) but it was close.

Why - what happened to Keith Earls on the 2009 tour?  

Surely you remember this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0yRPlA8bO8

Yeah I do.  He did okay in his other two matches if I recall rightly and maybe scored one or two.   He was a young bolter - first match nerves as the commentators said.     Best's performance was worse given his experience.  He's a different more assured player now but I'd doubt he'd travel anyway.   Himself and Gatland don't see eye to eye, and I'm sure there are other equally if not more capable hookers amongst the other teams.  

Best is the same player he's was four years ago, so if Gatland is consistent, he will be snubbed again. It was only thanks to Dylan's opinion of Barnes, that Rory got a red shirt for his wall - he was never going to get into Gat's elite team selection. Rory's the sort of wholehearted player who will leave everything on the pitch in a lost cause, risking his career and come home broken. He doesn't need to prove anything, and Ireland don't need him to be broken and humiliated in a pantomime.
Anyway the Lions' best chance of success is to pick a front five from one nation and probably the replacements as well. That block of nine players would circumvent the months of technical disadvantage they would otherwise be up against - so England definite favourites there.

GunsGerms wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:When is the Lions captain announced. Knowing Gatland it will be a welsh man or a Kiwi. So Warburton or Hartley.

However, Rory Best is the only current captain to have captained a country to victory over New Zealand. He also captained Ireland to victory over SA in SA. Surely he is throwing his hat into the ring now?

Wouldn't he have to be the best in his position though like AWJ is? I must have missed the headline 'Best bests New Zealand.' #onemanteam

I like AWJ but he is a fading force. I would 100% have him in the squad for sure but not as captain.

I dont think there is a better hooker in the NH that Best. Problem there isnt much difference in ability between the top Lions choices for hooker so it will be hotly debated. I just think he might just be the Best choice for captain.

I remember saying something similar for the 2013 tour, and then he didn't even make the squad (was a later addition)

I would again back him for captain, but wouldn't be surprised if he's not selected by Gatland again.

I'm with Aukster. Rory should make it known that he's not interested in going as token mid-weeker. If he's not in Gatland's mind as a Test Player (and Gatland knows his mind pretty damn well, even now) then he should keep with Ireland (and hopefully Joe) and turn down any squad-filling invitation. Why should he have his confidence and pride toyed with again? He has the team that want him.

Cyril wrote:After Best's horror show on the 2013 tour I'm not sure he'll be in the plans this time around. It wasn't as bad as Earls' debut in 2009 (ye gods!) but it was close.

Earls was the 20 year old bolter in basically his first season of professional rugby and you are still going on about it.

As for Best, he was really messed around. First of all not selected, then thrown into a game against a team where he had not played with anyone before such as Paul O'Connell.

Anyway, isn't there some talk of Rory having a punch up with Gatland? Rory would be wise to give Gatland the 2 fingers as inevitably Hartley will mess up. What is it with the British press - all they want to do is demonise non English players.

Sin...you're on a Patriotic roll these last few days!  

Good man, I'll need you for the next campaign battle I hope to fight for that lovely woman Marine Le Pen.  I'm picking up a good record - Brexit now Trump.
Vive la France!  Next target for the Brexiteers!!!