The Donald Trump Incredulity Thread

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

I know that this doesn't relate to rugby, but feel free to say what you want about the 45th (and presumably final) president of the United States.

A man John Oliver once described as "a large clown made of dessicated foreskin and cotton candy".

[SecretFly]

They all lie.  I think sanity has taken a walk in recent weeks post-Election.

They all lie.  It's the job.  "I love kissing your baby" - it's a lie.  But if what I've been reading and looking up lately proves true... the world of interconnected politics/business really has become a cesspit.... and that earlier comment about kissing babies becomes something altogether more sinister.

But more on that later - if any of it becomes more solid.

I can't say they all lie, but can believe many of them do. Lying about national security issues, and lying about kissing babies are very different, methinks.

Every single one of them have lied at some point when either establishing themselves as politicians, in their earlier careers as lawyers and such, and certainly when it came to promising people they'd certainly do that or look into this or telling people they never said that.

They're all human and its a lovely job that needs a lot of fancy sliding past the truth and horse trading for gains either in policy or personal promotion.

[marty2086]

She is a liar. If you think a lying POTUS is fine, then I reckon you lose the moral highground. I believe Trump is a liar as well, but you don't mind that. Trump lying wouldn't bother you.

Like I said everyone lies but if you read beyond the headlines you would see she isn't the liar some claim she is

She is. She lied about a national security issue, then compounded the lie by destroying her emails. That's lying. I'm not saying she should have been sent to prison for it. I don't see using the other email server as such a crime as some are painting. Lying about was the real issue.

See you don't read beyond the headlines

The security issue being Benghazi? She lied to the press which although is a lie is something done regularly during wars and conflicts. You don't say your enemy got the better of you its all propaganda. The press and Republicans did a great job of promoting an Islamic group that no one had ever heard off, I bet their recruitment and funding increased after that

You do realise the emails were her own personal emails? She didn't need to keep them and she asked for them deleted before she was subpoenaed and everyone thought they had been except for the guy who was meant to do it who hadn't done it

Like you said it wasn't as big an issue as some claim in regards to her actions but it does highlight how unclear it is that files and materials contain classified material.

[Guest]

They all lie.  I think sanity has taken a walk in recent weeks post-Election.

They all lie.  It's the job.  "I love kissing your baby" - it's a lie.  But if what I've been reading and looking up lately proves true... the world of interconnected politics/business really has become a cesspit.... and that earlier comment about kissing babies becomes something altogether more sinister.

But more on that later - if any of it becomes more solid.

I can't say they all lie, but can believe many of them do. Lying about national security issues, and lying about kissing babies are very different, methinks.

Every single one of them have lied at some point when either establishing themselves as politicians, in their earlier careers as lawyers and such, and certainly when it came to promising people they'd certainly do that or look into this or telling people they never said that.

They're all human and its a lovely job that needs a lot of fancy sliding past the truth and horse trading for gains either in policy or personal promotion.

Good luck with providing the evidence that all of them have lied to advance their political careers.

Trump certainly lied about his election promises. That's not something to be brushed aside because 'sure we all lie', or 'sure, he's a politician, and we expect him to lie'. Trust is a major concern. Trust is important to the public, the party, the opposition and the international community.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Trump lied about his promises...

Fancy a politician doing that..

[marty2086]

Trump lied about his promises...

Fancy a politician doing that..

His ex-wives could have told you he would do that if they were allowed to talk without getting his permission first

[TRUSSMAN66]

His second Wife said she wasn't voting for him...Marla Maples.

Ivana's kids were running Trump's campaign.  

Keep up..

[marty2086]

I know the details I meant the whole love honor and obey and death us do part thing, he didn't exactly keep his word there

But Ivana cant speak about their marriage without him giving his permission first. All part of their divorce

[carpet baboon]

Trump lies about saving jobs by convincing ford not to move it's Lincoln production to Mexico........ Even though it never was moving, as explicitly pointed out in fords own meetings published months and months ago.

Then that other chap he's appointed to a top job ( no idea his name ) who regularly links to the info wars web site. (Everything is a conspiracy apparently. Sandy hook was just actors)

Or his tax plan. Cuts for the rich screw the poor.

Or his giant wall (part fence) and find, arrest ,process and deportation of 2 to 3 million people in the first hundred days. approx cost 200 billion.

Have I missed anything ?

[carpet baboon]

Ooo his plan to register all the Muslims. Knew I had forgotten one

[SecretFly]

They all lie.  I think sanity has taken a walk in recent weeks post-Election.

They all lie.  It's the job.  "I love kissing your baby" - it's a lie.  But if what I've been reading and looking up lately proves true... the world of interconnected politics/business really has become a cesspit.... and that earlier comment about kissing babies becomes something altogether more sinister.

But more on that later - if any of it becomes more solid.

I can't say they all lie, but can believe many of them do. Lying about national security issues, and lying about kissing babies are very different, methinks.

Every single one of them have lied at some point when either establishing themselves as politicians, in their earlier careers as lawyers and such, and certainly when it came to promising people they'd certainly do that or look into this or telling people they never said that.

They're all human and its a lovely job that needs a lot of fancy sliding past the truth and horse trading for gains either in policy or personal promotion.

Good luck with providing the evidence that all of them have lied to advance their political careers.

Dear God, not you too Munch?  To hell with evidence - evidence is only needed when you either go to court or someone takes you to court  The rest - the overview?  - my judgement is that every single human being has lied at least once in their lives, moreso probably a hundred or so times.  Now that's a normal person, who doesn't need to lie to gain authority, position, promotion or get policy passed or knocked down.  Politicians lie plenty - all of them.  The degrees of lying, I'll debate that, yes.

[Guest]

She is a liar. If you think a lying POTUS is fine, then I reckon you lose the moral highground. I believe Trump is a liar as well, but you don't mind that. Trump lying wouldn't bother you.

Like I said everyone lies but if you read beyond the headlines you would see she isn't the liar some claim she is

She is. She lied about a national security issue, then compounded the lie by destroying her emails. That's lying. I'm not saying she should have been sent to prison for it. I don't see using the other email server as such a crime as some are painting. Lying about was the real issue.

See you don't read beyond the headlines

The security issue being Benghazi? She lied to the press which although is a lie is something done regularly during wars and conflicts. You don't say your enemy got the better of you its all propaganda. The press and Republicans did a great job of promoting an Islamic group that no one had ever heard off, I bet their recruitment and funding increased after that

You do realise the emails were her own personal emails? She didn't need to keep them and she asked for them deleted before she was subpoenaed and everyone thought they had been except for the guy who was meant to do it who hadn't done it

Like you said it wasn't as big an issue as some claim in regards to her actions but it does highlight how unclear it is that files and materials contain classified material.

The security issue being potentially classified emails on her private email account, and then deleting those emails (30k?) once she realised that people were questioning them as a matter of national security. She didn't always use a secure server when sending classified information. Obama, in her defense, didn't deny this, but said that there are different levels of classified information, and that Hilary didn't intentionally pose a security risk. I accept what Obama said, but that still doesn't excuse Hilary from lying about it, and having those emails deleted.

[marty2086]

Trump lies about saving  jobs by convincing ford not to move it's Lincoln production to Mexico........ Even though it never was moving, as explicitly pointed out in fords own meetings published months and months ago.

Then that other chap he's appointed to a top job ( no idea his name ) who regularly links to the info wars web site. (Everything is a conspiracy apparently. Sandy hook was just actors)

Or his tax plan. Cuts for the rich screw the poor.

Or his giant wall (part fence) and find, arrest ,process and deportation of 2 to 3 million people in the first hundred days. approx cost 200 billion.

Have I missed anything ?

Trumps economic plan differed day to day, officially it was tax cuts all around but talked of an increase for the wealthiest at one point too and raising the minimum wage

[TRUSSMAN66]

Trump spoke to Ford before the decision..

Whether he had a bearing or not he can try to claim credit.

It is what politicians do..

Wake up..

[Guest]

They all lie.  I think sanity has taken a walk in recent weeks post-Election.

They all lie.  It's the job.  "I love kissing your baby" - it's a lie.  But if what I've been reading and looking up lately proves true... the world of interconnected politics/business really has become a cesspit.... and that earlier comment about kissing babies becomes something altogether more sinister.

But more on that later - if any of it becomes more solid.

I can't say they all lie, but can believe many of them do. Lying about national security issues, and lying about kissing babies are very different, methinks.

Every single one of them have lied at some point when either establishing themselves as politicians, in their earlier careers as lawyers and such, and certainly when it came to promising people they'd certainly do that or look into this or telling people they never said that.

They're all human and its a lovely job that needs a lot of fancy sliding past the truth and horse trading for gains either in policy or personal promotion.

Good luck with providing the evidence that all of them have lied to advance their political careers.

Dear God, not you too Munch?  To hell with evidence - evidence is only needed when you either go to court or someone takes you to court  The rest - the overview?  - my judgement is that every single human being has lied at least once in their lives, moreso probably a hundred or so times.  Now that's a normal person, who doesn't need to lie to gain authority, position, promotion or get policy passed or knocked down.  Politicians lie plenty - all of them.  The degrees of lying, I'll debate that, yes.

Everyone has lied. I accept that. I don't accept all politicians have lied to further their careers. That might be true, but it's impossible to substantiate. That's probably why I asked for evidence

Still, Trump lied to the US public to get elected. That's a big lie.

[marty2086]

The security issue being potentially classified emails on her private email account, and then deleting those emails (30k?) once she realised that people were questioning them as a matter of national security. She didn't always use a secure server when sending classified information. Obama, in her defense, didn't deny this, but said that there are different levels of classified information, and that Hilary didn't intentionally pose a security risk. I accept what Obama said, but that still doesn't excuse Hilary from lying about it, and having those emails deleted.

See its still a case of you not reading beyond the headlines, yes she sent classified material by email but saying she lied about it or deleting them is false.

The emails deleted were private, she had to turn over anything work related and did. The deletion was not an attempt to cover anything up and was a balls up by an employee of the company looking after the server.

All emails requested by the FBI were turned over by her and her staff

The files she sent by email were not clearly marked classified, they had a small 'c' in a margin beside a relevant paragraph.

She was called a liar for saying she didn't send confidential information but if you don't know its confidential and send it how do you know its confidential unless someone tells you?

[SecretFly]

Didn't she lie about being under sniper fire? Yep, she joins Trump on the naughty stool.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Obama promised he'd close Guantanimo.

Clinton lied about her email...

Politicians lie and make silly promises.

Clinton lost lying to further her career...That's the difference.

Trump won with ninety percent of the media against him.

Credit where it's due.

[Pr4wn]

Two Trump voters die and are waiting at the Pearly Gates.

St Peter greets them warmly and asks, before they go into heaven, whether there are any questions about life that they would like the answer to.

The First Trump supporter pipes up and asks "What was in those Hillary emails?".

"Nothing incriminating at all", replies St Peter.

The second Trump supporter leans toward the first and whispers "This must go much higher than we thought".

[marty2086]

Obama promised he'd close Guantanimo.

Clinton lied about her email...

Politicians lie and make silly promises.

Clinton lost lying to further her career...That's the difference.

Trump won with ninety percent of the media against him.

Credit where it's due.

Congress stopped him closing Gitmo 6 times, its actually almost done and may be finished before he leaves office

Being wrong about something doesn't mean you lied

If you read what she is meant to have lied about you'd see it isn't what it seems

More of the media were behind Trump than you realise, stories and tapes buried that would have helped him though he only engaged with Fox outside of the debates and the one reporter who challenged him there he attacked

[TRUSSMAN66]

Trump wasn't expecting to win...That is why the transition is a mess..

It was about setting up a Trump TV station with millions of disgrunted followers..

Clinton and the GOP couldn't beat a joker..

But leave this lying crap...It comes with political territory.

[marty2086]

Trump wasn't expecting to win...That is why the transition is a mess..

It was about setting up a Trump TV station with millions of disgrunted followers..

Clinton and the GOP couldn't beat a joker..

But leave this lying crap...It comes with politically territory.

He played to win, that's why he constantly changed his campaign team

If he can't anticipate winning in a two way race then we are screwed worse than I thought

[TRUSSMAN66]

Clinton was a shoe in....He played to not look like a knob..

Half the GOP were against him.

[Guest]

The security issue being potentially classified emails on her private email account, and then deleting those emails (30k?) once she realised that people were questioning them as a matter of national security. She didn't always use a secure server when sending classified information. Obama, in her defense, didn't deny this, but said that there are different levels of classified information, and that Hilary didn't intentionally pose a security risk. I accept what Obama said, but that still doesn't excuse Hilary from lying about it, and having those emails deleted.

See its still a case of you not reading beyond the headlines, yes she sent classified material by email but saying she lied about it or deleting them is false.

The emails deleted were private, she had to turn over anything work related and did. The deletion was not an attempt to cover anything up and was a balls up by an employee of the company looking after the server.

All emails requested by the FBI were turned over by her and her staff

The files she sent by email were not clearly marked classified, they had a small 'c' in a margin beside a relevant paragraph.

She was called a liar for saying she didn't send confidential information but if you don't know its confidential and send it how do you know its confidential unless someone tells you?

You keep saying I'm not reading beyond the headlines, but then spin a narrative that excuses her.

Hilary said that she did not have classified emails on her server. She did.

HilaryFacts

"Clinton says that at the time, she thought her setup was allowed. But it’s hard not to be skeptical of that narrative because she was involved in multiple memos urging employees to minimize personal email use. And Bureau of Diplomatic Security employees tried unsuccessfully to get Clinton to use a department-issued BlackBerry smartphone as soon as she took office."

[Pr4wn]

Trump wasn't expecting to win...That is why the transition is a mess..

It was about setting up a Trump TV station with millions of disgrunted followers..

Clinton and the GOP couldn't beat a joker..

But leave this lying crap...It comes with political territory.

No, the transition is a mess because Trump is incompetent.

[TRUSSMAN66]

He was unprepared..Every other nominee has an idea of his cabinet.

[marty2086]

The security issue being potentially classified emails on her private email account, and then deleting those emails (30k?) once she realised that people were questioning them as a matter of national security. She didn't always use a secure server when sending classified information. Obama, in her defense, didn't deny this, but said that there are different levels of classified information, and that Hilary didn't intentionally pose a security risk. I accept what Obama said, but that still doesn't excuse Hilary from lying about it, and having those emails deleted.

See its still a case of you not reading beyond the headlines, yes she sent classified material by email but saying she lied about it or deleting them is false.

The emails deleted were private, she had to turn over anything work related and did. The deletion was not an attempt to cover anything up and was a balls up by an employee of the company looking after the server.

All emails requested by the FBI were turned over by her and her staff

The files she sent by email were not clearly marked classified, they had a small 'c' in a margin beside a relevant paragraph.

She was called a liar for saying she didn't send confidential information but if you don't know its confidential and send it how do you know its confidential unless someone tells you?

You keep saying I'm not reading beyond the headlines, but then spin a narrative that excuses her.

Hilary said that she did not have classified emails on her server. She did.

HilaryFacts

"Clinton says that at the time, she thought her setup was allowed. But it’s hard not to be skeptical of that narrative because she was involved in multiple memos urging employees to minimize personal email use. And Bureau of Diplomatic Security employees tried unsuccessfully to get Clinton to use a department-issued BlackBerry smartphone as soon as she took office."

Like I said, if you don't know something is classified how can you say you did have something classified when you didn't know?

Even the FBI director said something along the lines of he can understand why she would claim that.

She should have known better but doesn't make her a liar or criminal, not like encouraging someone to hack classified emails

[marty2086]

Clinton was a shoe in....He played to not look like a knob..

Half the GOP were against him.

How was she a shoe in?

The polls were split across the board at one point and he was the one talking Brexit constantly

[Guest]

The security issue being potentially classified emails on her private email account, and then deleting those emails (30k?) once she realised that people were questioning them as a matter of national security. She didn't always use a secure server when sending classified information. Obama, in her defense, didn't deny this, but said that there are different levels of classified information, and that Hilary didn't intentionally pose a security risk. I accept what Obama said, but that still doesn't excuse Hilary from lying about it, and having those emails deleted.

See its still a case of you not reading beyond the headlines, yes she sent classified material by email but saying she lied about it or deleting them is false.

The emails deleted were private, she had to turn over anything work related and did. The deletion was not an attempt to cover anything up and was a balls up by an employee of the company looking after the server.

All emails requested by the FBI were turned over by her and her staff

The files she sent by email were not clearly marked classified, they had a small 'c' in a margin beside a relevant paragraph.

She was called a liar for saying she didn't send confidential information but if you don't know its confidential and send it how do you know its confidential unless someone tells you?

You keep saying I'm not reading beyond the headlines, but then spin a narrative that excuses her.

Hilary said that she did not have classified emails on her server. She did.

HilaryFacts

"Clinton says that at the time, she thought her setup was allowed. But it’s hard not to be skeptical of that narrative because she was involved in multiple memos urging employees to minimize personal email use. And Bureau of Diplomatic Security employees tried unsuccessfully to get Clinton to use a department-issued BlackBerry smartphone as soon as she took office."

Like I said, if you don't know something is classified how can you say you did have something classified when you didn't know?

Even the FBI director said something along the lines of he can understand why she would claim that.

She should have known better but doesn't make her a liar or criminal, not like encouraging someone to hack classified emails

"I didn't know" That's a great defense, especially from someone who advised her own staff to keep personal use to a minimum, and shunned the department smartphone.

[SecretFly]

Hillary was a 'shoe-in' in the minds of the poll setters, the 'narrative' setters on the 'conventional' news channels and in the minds of those voters who just felt sure the stars had aligned on yet another Big shift in American Political life. They were all wrong except in the last bit - The Orange One was indeed anointed.

[Guest]

"Here's your department phone, Hilary"

"oh, why do I need that when I have my own personal phone?"

"Because it's nice, sparkly and new, of course, silly".

It just couldn't be anything to do with security....

[SecretFly]

No, the transition is a mess because Trump is incompetent.

How much more in the bank have you? Yeah...it's a new job for him - the interview was a little awkward to say the least, but let's see how the idiot shows up for 'performance targets'. Any bozo can do the fine speeches. Every boardroom has a guy who loves doing the 'aspirational speeches'. Let's see what Trump does behind the scenes..... or maybe I should reword that for the kids listening in

[marty2086]

"I didn't know" That's a great defense, especially from someone who advised her own staff to keep personal use to a minimum, and shunned the department smartphone.

Its not a great defence but seems like the department was poorly run and dates back through her predecessors and where similar things occurred and not enough steps and procedures were in place to prevent it all happening

[marty2086]

"Here's your department phone, Hilary"

"oh, why do I need that when I have my own personal phone?"

"Because it's nice, sparkly and new, of course, silly".

It just couldn't be anything to do with security....

And why would you use it?

It was nothing to do with the phone itself but the server security

[Guest]

"I didn't know" That's a great defense, especially from someone who advised her own staff to keep personal use to a minimum, and shunned the department smartphone.

Its not a great defence but seems like the department was poorly run and dates back through her predecessors and where similar things occurred and not enough steps and procedures were in place to prevent it all happening

I don'y buy it. There's still the fact that she was offered the department phone and refused it. She understood the security protocol enough to advise her own staff.

[Guest]

"Here's your department phone, Hilary"

"oh, why do I need that when I have my own personal phone?"

"Because it's nice, sparkly and new, of course, silly".

It just couldn't be anything to do with security....

And why would you use it?

It was nothing to do with the phone itself but the server security

Exactly. So she would have understood server security.

[marty2086]

"Here's your department phone, Hilary"

"oh, why do I need that when I have my own personal phone?"

"Because it's nice, sparkly and new, of course, silly".

It just couldn't be anything to do with security....

And why would you use it?

It was nothing to do with the phone itself but the server security

Exactly. So she would have understood server security.

Why would she have understood it?

[SecretFly]

"I didn't know" That's a great defense, especially from someone who advised her own staff to keep personal use to a minimum, and shunned the department smartphone.

Its not a great defence but seems like the department was poorly run and dates back through her predecessors and where similar things occurred and not enough steps and procedures were in place to prevent it all happening

Deniablity. 'I didn't know'. It's a classic. And it seems to have been in operation during the DNC military operations through the campaign.

[Guest]

"Here's your department phone, Hilary"

"oh, why do I need that when I have my own personal phone?"

"Because it's nice, sparkly and new, of course, silly".

It just couldn't be anything to do with security....

And why would you use it?

It was nothing to do with the phone itself but the server security

Exactly. So she would have understood server security.

Why would she have understood it?

Because she was offered the phone.

[marty2086]

If she is trying to stick to one device, anything she sends on a dept device is open to FoI requests

[SecretFly]

"Here's your department phone, Hilary"

"oh, why do I need that when I have my own personal phone?"

"Because it's nice, sparkly and new, of course, silly".

It just couldn't be anything to do with security....

And why would you use it?

It was nothing to do with the phone itself but the server security

Exactly. So she would have understood server security.

Why would she have understood it?

She'd have an army of aides and secretaries to tell her...first day in office... or second. These people don't go around empty corridors working it all out for themselves.

[Guest]

If she is trying to stick to one device, anything she sends on a dept device is open to FoI requests

So you think state security offered her the phone because it was sparkly, or because it served a security purpose? So, they wouldn't have explained the reasons for the phone, and kept her in the dark about server security?

[SecretFly]

Trump wants his security server phone to come furnished with the Red Button included. He wants that button at thumb distance at all times.

[Guest]

Trump wants his security server phone to come furnished with the Red Button included.  He wants that button at thumb distance at all times.

Practical and forward thinking man, is Trump. He can start Armageddon from the comfort of his bed

[marty2086]

If she is trying to stick to one device, anything she sends on a dept device is open to FoI requests

So you think state security offered her the phone because it was sparkly, or because it served a security purpose? So, they wouldn't have explained the reasons for the phone, and kept her in the dark about server security?

Why do you think it was careless and not criminal?

Having read a breakdown of the IGs report into it all the department is a mess and there are no SOPs and security protocols that are being properly adhered to

Don't forget the memos asked that personal email usage be minimised not eradicated

[Guest]

If she is trying to stick to one device, anything she sends on a dept device is open to FoI requests

So you think state security offered her the phone because it was sparkly, or because it served a security purpose? So, they wouldn't have explained the reasons for the phone, and kept her in the dark about server security?

Why do you think it was careless and not criminal?

Having read a breakdown of the IGs report into it all the department is a mess and there are no SOPs and security protocols that are being properly adhered to

Don't forget the memos asked that personal email usage be minimised not eradicated

Because Obama said the act was reckless and not intentional, as did the FBI. So I have to think that intention determines whether the act was criminal or reckless.

Security protocols may not to be strictly adhered to, but that doesn't excuse reckless behaviour.

Why ask that personal email be minimised at all?

[marty2086]

If she is trying to stick to one device, anything she sends on a dept device is open to FoI requests

So you think state security offered her the phone because it was sparkly, or because it served a security purpose? So, they wouldn't have explained the reasons for the phone, and kept her in the dark about server security?

Why do you think it was careless and not criminal?

Having read a breakdown of the IGs report into it all the department is a mess and there are no SOPs and security protocols that are being properly adhered to

Don't forget the memos asked that personal email usage be minimised not eradicated

Because Obama said the act was reckless and not intentional, as did the FBI. So I have to think that intention determines whether the act was criminal or reckless.

Security protocols may not to be strictly adhered to, but that doesn't excuse reckless behaviour.

Why ask that personal email be minimised at all?

That's not how the FBI work

Reckless requires a disregard for it all

Ive had the same email at work, in that case it was that personal emails not be sent on work time or the work email. Even those who sent it don't follow it

[SecretFly]

I kept with yis for a while, but yis are losing me now.................

[Guest]

If she is trying to stick to one device, anything she sends on a dept device is open to FoI requests

So you think state security offered her the phone because it was sparkly, or because it served a security purpose? So, they wouldn't have explained the reasons for the phone, and kept her in the dark about server security?

Why do you think it was careless and not criminal?

Having read a breakdown of the IGs report into it all the department is a mess and there are no SOPs and security protocols that are being properly adhered to

Don't forget the memos asked that personal email usage be minimised not eradicated

Because Obama said the act was reckless and not intentional, as did the FBI. So I have to think that intention determines whether the act was criminal or reckless.

Security protocols may not to be strictly adhered to, but that doesn't excuse reckless behaviour.

Why ask that personal email be minimised at all?

That's not how the FBI work

Reckless requires a disregard for it all

Ive had the same email at work, in that case it was that personal emails not be sent on work time or the work email. Even those who sent it don't follow it

Then take that up with the FBI. It was them that created the excuse!

You might be right about the personal use thing, but the facts site I linked seems to believe there's more to it than that.

[Guest]

I kept with yis for a while, but yis are losing me now.................

It's all shape-shifting, Fly. All very political

[TRUSSMAN66]

As I understand it......Clinton was told not to send classified e-mails on her home server....It's illegal...She was also told not to let anybody see them without clearance...

Her maid didn't have clearance....

She also used Clinton foundation funds to pay for Chelsea's wedding which if you aren't a Clinton would be an offence.....

Then we have cash for access....People that paid the Clinton foundation money were strangely granted access to the Secretary of State and the white house...

When Clinton was being investigated over the Whitewater scandal....Files went missing only to turn up in her bedroom years later in the Whitehouse..

Then we have the Women's champion accepting money to the Foundation from Countries that trample on Women's rights......Places where they get stoned and aren't allowed to drive or get educated..

Then we have Clinton as the self acclaimed Wall street fighter.....Who when she had her speeches leaked told Wall street she had a private and public position...

Then we had Clinton being leaked questions before the debates....

Then we had 13 women deciding a week out from the election to tell the world Trump had assaulted them..


Fact is Trump with no ground game....Little in the way of establishment help and with ten times less campaign money beat the overwhelming favorite..

Credit where its due...

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