All Blacks to wear poppies v Italy

by GunsGerms Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:55 am

First topic message reminder :

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11745945

Are we in danger of entering poppy overload? Has it not become a bit excessive and garish? I understand the significance and it is understandable that people want to respect war heroes and yes Dave Gallagher the first AB captain did die in world war one. However, do we really need to mix sport with politics?

It seems that every time I turn on the BBC rugby commentary someone is wearing a poppy. I mean there was a time that only vets wore them now all of a sudden everyone wants in on the act.

Thoughts?

by Sin é Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:19 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:What really gets me about some of the comments on this thread is that a country cant respect or honour their War dead unless you get prior approval from the Irish, even if its in a Rugby game that has absolutely nothing to do with the Ireland.
OR

Because the Irish dont understand why some other countries from the other end of the Earth pay respect to their fallen then it must be wrong or unacceptable via the game of Rugby by the All Blacks.

This week the All Blacks play Italy in Italy, Many New Zelanders lost their lives in Italy during the Italian campaign and especially at the battle of Monte cassino, including an All Black Wing by the name of George Hart he was hit by a shell at Sora and is buried at Monte Cassino, he scored 28 tries for New Zealand. He never made it back to New Zealand .

Further there was Jack Harris a fullback from Canterbury sure he only played 8 matches for the All Blacks but he also paid the ultimate sacrifice and is also buried at Cassino, He never made it home.

Can anyone on here explain to me why the Irish think its so wrong for the All Blacks to wear a poppy in rememberance of all these brave Kiwis, not only ex All Blacks, in a game of Rugby in Italy within days of Armistice day?

In fairness Laurie, its a little crass to honour your dead so publicly in Italy, a country which was the opposite side in one of these wars. Why not just visit the site of these battles and pay your respects that way.

by GunsGerms Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:23 am

Dont even go there Sin.

by munkian Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:29 am

On the opposite side until they over threw their fascist dictator...

by Sin é Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:59 am

munkian wrote:On the opposite side until they over threw their fascist dictator...

There will be Italians in that crowd who will have had close relatives who died in those battles that Laurie mentions. Who is honoring them?

by TrailApe Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:06 am

In fairness Laurie, its a little crass to honour your dead so publicly in Italy, a country which was the opposite side in one of these wars. Why not just visit the site of these battles and pay your respects that way.

In 1943 - battle of Monte Cassino - the Italians were on our side.

It's worth looking at the list of Allied combatant nations at Cassino:

GB, India, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Free French, Canadians, Polish and Italian Royalists

bet there were a fair few rugby players present.

by Cyril Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:07 am

Sin é wrote:
munkian wrote:On the opposite side until they over threw their fascist dictator...

There will be Italians in that crowd who will have had close relatives who died in those battles that Laurie mentions. Who is honoring them?

Isn't that up to the Italians (both individually and as a nation)?

by munkian Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:10 am

Cyril wrote:
Sin é wrote:
munkian wrote:On the opposite side until they over threw their fascist dictator...

There will be Italians in that crowd who will have had close relatives who died in those battles that Laurie mentions. Who is honoring them?
Isn't that up to the Italians (both individually and as a nation)?

Not unless they get written permission from the Ireland first.

by Guest Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:28 am

beshocked wrote:thelosty if I was I was Irish I would in all likelihood agree with you.

I am not though. Britain has done many bad things. I will not deny that, how can I? On the other hand looking from a British perspective, the Easter Uprising happened whilst Britain and her allies were busy fighting in WWI, is it surprising that the response was heavy handed?

If you attack someone whilst their back is turned, you don't expect a brutal response? There was also going to be brutal conflict once the easter uprising had happened. Especially after WWI.

The easter uprising was never going to lead to peace and harmony, it did not unsurprisingly.

In WWI and WWII, the allies had to leave their homeland, fight and many died on foreign soil so others could live, the easter uprising was fighting on home soil for your own rights.

It was not one country fighting for their own sovereignty, it was people from many nations fighting a global threat. For that I honour those who have been forgotten but should be remembered for their sacrifice.

There's the difference.

Gunsgerms I wear the poppy as a sign of respect to those who fought and died.

Those who fought in the easter uprising fought for Ireland, those who fought in WWI and WWII fought for something IMO more significant than the sovereignty of one nation.

It should be remembered that the Irish did fight in WW1 and fought bravely. The 16th Division fought at Messines, alongside the Ulster (36th) Division, and Passchendaele. They took heavy loses.

There's no reason why the AB's shouldn't wear the Poppy. It's the media that are blowing this out of proportion, not those wanting to remember their dead. The Poppy is not a symbol of the glories of war, if such a thing existed, it is remembering the horror of war and the tragedy of lives lost.

by munkian Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:40 am

Spot on.

My partner's Dad was in the Irish Guards, she was chatting to someone at a Remembrance installation in Bristol yesterday and they said to give him their contact details if he ever needs help with anything even though hes from and lives in Dublin.

by Sin é Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:42 pm

Munchkin wrote:
beshocked wrote:thelosty if I was I was Irish I would in all likelihood agree with you.

I am not though. Britain has done many bad things. I will not deny that, how can I? On the other hand looking from a British perspective, the Easter Uprising happened whilst Britain and her allies were busy fighting in WWI, is it surprising that the response was heavy handed?

If you attack someone whilst their back is turned, you don't expect a brutal response? There was also going to be brutal conflict once the easter uprising had happened. Especially after WWI.

The easter uprising was never going to lead to peace and harmony, it did not unsurprisingly.

In WWI and WWII, the allies had to leave their homeland, fight and many died on foreign soil so others could live, the easter uprising was fighting on home soil for your own rights.

It was not one country fighting for their own sovereignty, it was people from many nations fighting a global threat. For that I honour those who have been forgotten but should be remembered for their sacrifice.

There's the difference.

Gunsgerms I wear the poppy as a sign of respect to those who fought and died.

Those who fought in the easter uprising fought for Ireland, those who fought in WWI and WWII fought for something IMO more significant than the sovereignty of one nation.

It should be remembered that the Irish did fight in WW1 and fought bravely. The 16th Division fought at Messines, alongside the Ulster (36th) Division, and Passchendaele. They took heavy loses.

There's no reason why the AB's shouldn't wear the Poppy. It's the media that are blowing this out of proportion, not those wanting to remember their dead. The Poppy is not a symbol of the glories of war, if such a thing existed, it is remembering the horror of war and the tragedy of lives lost.

The media are mainly the ones who are responsible for the poppy fascism. If it was an effective way of reminding people of the horrors of war, its not working (most recently evident in the British & US invasion of Iraq).

by mikey_dragon Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:16 pm

BamBam wrote:I think the Express/Sun is more likely

Nah fam, don't read either of them, nor the daily mail or the independent. I occasionally read the BBC news.

by SecretFly Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:23 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
BamBam wrote:I think the Express/Sun is more likely

Nah fam, don't read either of them, nor the daily mail or the independent. I occasionally read the BBC news.

The two line sound bite news?

"News just in. On his first day in office, President Duck shocked the world by................. " [a lot of white space]

Where's the detail, damn yous!!?

by mikey_dragon Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:11 pm

That's how I like it - as little 'news' as possible. The media isn't there to inform us, is it?

by SecretFly Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:41 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:That's how I like it - as little 'news' as possible. The media isn't there to inform us, is it?

Well they're not there to tell us what to think of the news, if that's what you mean - but I'd have thought a body that is supposed to present News follows through and actually does inform us about the detail.

Oh of course I'm exaggerating a little (or a lot Whistle

) on what they DO tell us to make my point - but at times the online bit can appear to be a very shallow presentation of facts.

by Guest Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:07 am

Sin é wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
beshocked wrote:thelosty if I was I was Irish I would in all likelihood agree with you.

I am not though. Britain has done many bad things. I will not deny that, how can I? On the other hand looking from a British perspective, the Easter Uprising happened whilst Britain and her allies were busy fighting in WWI, is it surprising that the response was heavy handed?

If you attack someone whilst their back is turned, you don't expect a brutal response? There was also going to be brutal conflict once the easter uprising had happened. Especially after WWI.

The easter uprising was never going to lead to peace and harmony, it did not unsurprisingly.

In WWI and WWII, the allies had to leave their homeland, fight and many died on foreign soil so others could live, the easter uprising was fighting on home soil for your own rights.

It was not one country fighting for their own sovereignty, it was people from many nations fighting a global threat. For that I honour those who have been forgotten but should be remembered for their sacrifice.

There's the difference.

Gunsgerms I wear the poppy as a sign of respect to those who fought and died.

Those who fought in the easter uprising fought for Ireland, those who fought in WWI and WWII fought for something IMO more significant than the sovereignty of one nation.

It should be remembered that the Irish did fight in WW1 and fought bravely. The 16th Division fought at Messines, alongside the Ulster (36th) Division, and Passchendaele. They took heavy loses.

There's no reason why the AB's shouldn't wear the Poppy. It's the media that are blowing this out of proportion, not those wanting to remember their dead. The Poppy is not a symbol of the glories of war, if such a thing existed, it is remembering the horror of war and the tragedy of lives lost.

The media are mainly the ones who are responsible for the poppy fascism. If it was an effective way of reminding people of the horrors of war, its not working (most recently evident in the British & US invasion of Iraq).

War is going to happen anyway, Sin. The world has more or less been at war since the end of the last world war, just not on the same scale.

You might not have noticed people opposed to war, but I have noticed plenty. That doesn't mean they always get heard. The Arms industry probably takes precedent, along with those whose interests are not served in a stable ME.

by doctor_grey Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:14 pm

munkian wrote:Spot on.

My partner's Dad was in the Irish Guards, she was chatting to someone at a Remembrance installation in Bristol yesterday and they said to give him their contact details if he ever needs help with anything even though hes from and lives in Dublin.

I believe the Remembrance Day/Armistice Day/Veterans Day commemorations do help bring people together. Yes, the poppies appear a bit overdone in the media, but it is really about how we fought, and more importantly survived, terrible war. I was home yesterday, though flew back to NJ last night, and each year are always struck with how meaningful it is to people who attend the memorials. I believe it is very personal, very individual, but we as peoples did fight the fight and feel it almost tangibly. People who don't know each other are together simply for honour and memory, and, yes, even pride. Unites in a way no other day or event does.

by majesticimperialman Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:23 pm

In my opinion ALL teams should wear the poppies embroidered on their shirts at this time of year.

by aucklandlaurie Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:21 am

So the ABs played wearing a small poppy on the right sleave,it was subtle and small - about the size of a bottle top, for those who knew it was there, knew why it was there.

Two new All Blacks got their first test caps Rieko Ioane (plus a try) and Liam Coltman (Hooker).

NZ 68...Italy 10.

by majesticimperialman Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:53 am

It is not the size of the poppie that counts. But the fact that the team wore one out of respect for the Brave men and women who lost their lives in the war/wars so that we may live and prosper.

Well done the all black for wearing rthe poppie.

by nathan Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:12 am

Clearly this is a really pressing subject for GG as he's decided to create a whole thread on it.

For me it's about two things, remembering all those lost and to educated people on losses of war.

I can't understand why someone would find it that annoying to create a whole thread in it though on such a sensitive subject.

by doctor_grey Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:46 pm

nathan wrote:Clearly this is a really pressing subject for GG as he's decided to create a whole thread on it.

For me it's about two things, remembering all those lost and to educated people on losses of war.

I can't understand why someone would find it that annoying to create a whole thread in it though on such a sensitive subject.

Mate, regardless of why the thread is here, I think this is a good discussion. Sometimes we ought to discuss things like this - reminds of just a little, maybe, of who we are. And the value to all of us with a common history. Rugby is why we are here. But sometimes it is good to go off topic with our discussions. I know it felt good for me to write my little posts on this thread.

by SecretFly Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:54 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
nathan wrote:Clearly this is a really pressing subject for GG as he's decided to create a whole thread on it.

For me it's about two things, remembering all those lost and to educated people on losses of war.

I can't understand why someone would find it that annoying to create a whole thread in it though on such a sensitive subject.
Mate, regardless of why the thread is here, I think this is a good discussion. Sometimes we ought to discuss things like this - reminds of just a little, maybe, of who we are. And the value to all of us with a common history. Rugby is why we are here. But sometimes it is good to go off topic with our discussions. I know it felt good for me to write my little posts on this thread.

It's always good for an topic specific site or thread to move away from the topic off and on - it shows that the contributors are rounded real humanbeings with plenty of other interests.

by aucklandlaurie Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:14 pm

SecretFly wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
nathan wrote:Clearly this is a really pressing subject for GG as he's decided to create a whole thread on it.

For me it's about two things, remembering all those lost and to educated people on losses of war.

I can't understand why someone would find it that annoying to create a whole thread in it though on such a sensitive subject.
Mate, regardless of why the thread is here, I think this is a good discussion. Sometimes we ought to discuss things like this - reminds of just a little, maybe, of who we are. And the value to all of us with a common history. Rugby is why we are here. But sometimes it is good to go off topic with our discussions. I know it felt good for me to write my little posts on this thread.

It's always good for an topic specific site or thread to move away from the topic off and on - it shows that the contributors are rounded real humanbeings with plenty of other interests.

I get the feeling at times that so long as we stay away from Rugby we actually can conduct and participate in reasonable discussion.

At the moment it is 2 o'clock in the morming in Auckland, I was fast asleep, then the wife wakes me up to bring an earthquake to my attention, she then goes back to sleep and I cant, hence I end up on the computer talking to you lot, and its a school night.

by SecretFly Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:20 pm

Were there any injuries or infrastructure damage, laurie?

by aucklandlaurie Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:24 pm

SecretFly wrote:Were there any injuries or infrastructure damage, laurie?

We have had about 60 different earthquakes in the last two hours, the main was a 6.6 just two hours ago, most have been in the South Island, See below:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11747425

by aucklandlaurie Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:28 pm

Oh and no at this stage no reports of injury or damage. but they definitely do wake you up, it is a perfectly still night here no wind and the water in the swimming pool was going crazy.

by nathan Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:35 pm

Tsunami has been reported as hit, hope you all stay safe

by SecretFly Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:52 pm

Of course, hope everyone is okay and no major damage through the period.

by stub Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:04 pm

Yes - all the best to all of you on the South Island.

by doctor_grey Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:56 pm

SecretFly wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
nathan wrote:Clearly this is a really pressing subject for GG as he's decided to create a whole thread on it.

For me it's about two things, remembering all those lost and to educated people on losses of war.

I can't understand why someone would find it that annoying to create a whole thread in it though on such a sensitive subject.
Mate, regardless of why the thread is here, I think this is a good discussion. Sometimes we ought to discuss things like this - reminds of just a little, maybe, of who we are. And the value to all of us with a common history. Rugby is why we are here. But sometimes it is good to go off topic with our discussions. I know it felt good for me to write my little posts on this thread.

It's always good for an topic specific site or thread to move away from the topic off and on - it shows that the contributors are rounded real human beings with plenty of other interests.

What???
We are not all Props............

by doctor_grey Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:57 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Oh and no at this stage no reports of injury or damage. but they definitely do wake you up, it is a perfectly still night here no wind and the water in the swimming pool was going crazy.

Best of luck, Laurie.

by SecretFly Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:14 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
nathan wrote:Clearly this is a really pressing subject for GG as he's decided to create a whole thread on it.

For me it's about two things, remembering all those lost and to educated people on losses of war.

I can't understand why someone would find it that annoying to create a whole thread in it though on such a sensitive subject.
Mate, regardless of why the thread is here, I think this is a good discussion. Sometimes we ought to discuss things like this - reminds of just a little, maybe, of who we are. And the value to all of us with a common history. Rugby is why we are here. But sometimes it is good to go off topic with our discussions. I know it felt good for me to write my little posts on this thread.

It's always good for an topic specific site or thread to move away from the topic off and on - it shows that the contributors are rounded real human beings with plenty of other interests.
What???
We are not all Props............

No, and I'm certainly not. I'm more a scrumhalf. Well formed (not fat) and handsome Cool

by emack2 Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:08 pm

ALL the teams I`ve seen are wearing the Poppy Hug

by aucklandlaurie Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:29 am

doctor_grey wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Oh and no at this stage no reports of injury or damage. but they definitely do wake you up, it is a perfectly still night here no wind and the water in the swimming pool was going crazy.
Best of luck, Laurie.

All will be fine Richie's on the job.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/nz-earthquake/86435164/new-zealand-earthquake-richie-mccaw-steps-up-to-help-rescue-effort

by GunsGerms Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:14 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
nathan wrote:Clearly this is a really pressing subject for GG as he's decided to create a whole thread on it.

For me it's about two things, remembering all those lost and to educated people on losses of war.

I can't understand why someone would find it that annoying to create a whole thread in it though on such a sensitive subject.
Mate, regardless of why the thread is here, I think this is a good discussion. Sometimes we ought to discuss things like this - reminds of just a little, maybe, of who we are. And the value to all of us with a common history. Rugby is why we are here. But sometimes it is good to go off topic with our discussions. I know it felt good for me to write my little posts on this thread.

Hi Nathan. I dont think you read all my comments on the subject if that's what you think.

I have worn a poppy myself to commemorate my own relative who died in WW1. I do however, think there is poppy overload at the moment and I also questioned the suitability of mixing poppies with sport in my article. I was interested to gauge what others thought and it was worded in a manner to kick start debate but not necessarily offend.

I can see now it is a sensitive subject for lots of people so I am not as interested any more.

by doctor_grey Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:34 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Oh and no at this stage no reports of injury or damage. but they definitely do wake you up, it is a perfectly still night here no wind and the water in the swimming pool was going crazy.
Best of luck, Laurie.

All will be fine Richie's on the job.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/nz-earthquake/86435164/new-zealand-earthquake-richie-mccaw-steps-up-to-help-rescue-effort

Frankly, I would have thought Richie would have out-toughed the earthquake and made the ground go back from whence it came.

Or he would have gone around the side of the earthquake and tackled it before the ball came out...........oops, I mean before it started.

by doctor_grey Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:35 pm

SecretFly wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
nathan wrote:Clearly this is a really pressing subject for GG as he's decided to create a whole thread on it.

For me it's about two things, remembering all those lost and to educated people on losses of war.

I can't understand why someone would find it that annoying to create a whole thread in it though on such a sensitive subject.
Mate, regardless of why the thread is here, I think this is a good discussion. Sometimes we ought to discuss things like this - reminds of just a little, maybe, of who we are. And the value to all of us with a common history. Rugby is why we are here. But sometimes it is good to go off topic with our discussions. I know it felt good for me to write my little posts on this thread.

It's always good for an topic specific site or thread to move away from the topic off and on - it shows that the contributors are rounded real human beings with plenty of other interests.
What???
We are not all Props............

No, and I'm certainly not. I'm more a scrumhalf. Well formed (not fat) and handsome

I never doubted the handsome part............

by marty2086 Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:26 am

majesticimperialman wrote:In my opinion ALL teams should wear the poppies embroidered on their shirts at this time of year.

by GunsGermsV2 Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:00 pm

I see that FIFA are taking a stance and banning poppies on jerseys and have also fined the Irish football association for introducing a 1916 related image on their jersey for a match.

I think this is a good idea from FIFA. I think in the spirit of sport and inclusion for all it makes sense to keep sport and politics/commemorations separate. Nothing against poppies nor 1916 commemorations but I see no sense in wrapping them up in sport. They're not related so best to keep them seperate.

http://www.the42.ie/fai-fined-1916-3148050-Dec2016/

by SecretFly Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:32 pm

I think the sides should now wear the poppies again next year. I'd support them in the protest. FIFA even mentioned fans wearing Poppies at the ground and seemed to frown on that as well.

What absolute totalitarian bullschit, that grows and grows and grows and grows...and a population too anesthetised to give a damn about personal freedoms being increasing suppressed - 'to help us all get on better with each other'.

Meanwhile, FIFA is historically a great champion of morality and purity of spirit.

by GunsGermsV2 Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:42 pm

FIFA is the governing body for a sport not a political movement. If they want to keep their sport free of political gestures then they are absolutely within their rights to do so. As an organisation like most organisations they have a vision of what standards, ethics and culture they want to uphold so I see no issue them having a blanket ban on political gestures etc. to achieve their vision for the sport.

by SecretFly Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:55 pm

Nation States are Political Entities. If FIFA doesn't want to deal with Nations (flags, anthems, National pride, loyalty, folk memory etc) then I'd suggest they get out of the International Football game.

by marty2086 Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:56 pm

If Germany, Italy or Japan memorialised their war dead there would be uproar

by GunsGermsV2 Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:03 pm

SecretFly wrote:Nation States are Political Entities. If FIFA doesn't want to deal with Nations (flags, anthems, National pride, loyalty, folk memory etc) then I'd suggest they get out of the International Football game.

That's being pedantic in the extreme.

by GunsGermsV2 Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:07 pm

marty2086 wrote:If Germany, Italy or Japan memorialised their war dead there would be uproar

Exactly if you allow one group it should be open for all groups. The best policy is to remove it from the sport altogether because was has nothing to do with football anyway.

by marty2086 Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:35 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:If Germany, Italy or Japan memorialised their war dead there would be uproar

Exactly if you allow one group it should be open for all groups. The best policy is to remove it from the sport altogether because was has nothing to do with football anyway.

Its triumphalism at its worst

by aucklandlaurie Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:39 pm

marty2086 wrote:If Germany, Italy or Japan memorialised their war dead there would be uproar

I see no problem in Germany, Italy or Japan wearing poppies on their jerseys, what uproar?

by marty2086 Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:41 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
marty2086 wrote:If Germany, Italy or Japan memorialised their war dead there would be uproar

I see no problem in Germany, Italy or Japan wearing poppies on their jerseys, what uproar?

I never mentioned poppies, I said memorialised that could include a symbol that those in US, UK and ANZAC countries find offensive

by aucklandlaurie Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:48 pm

marty2086 wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
marty2086 wrote:If Germany, Italy or Japan memorialised their war dead there would be uproar

I see no problem in Germany, Italy or Japan wearing poppies on their jerseys, what uproar?

I never mentioned poppies, I said memorialised that could include a symbol that those in US, UK and ANZAC countries find offensive

You're a bit behind the times Marty, If you ever get to watch the dawn service from Gallipoli each year (25 April) their is a definite place given by the ANZACS to the Turks in recognition of their fallen. I have never heard about any of this uproar business before.

by marty2086 Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:52 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
marty2086 wrote:If Germany, Italy or Japan memorialised their war dead there would be uproar

I see no problem in Germany, Italy or Japan wearing poppies on their jerseys, what uproar?

I never mentioned poppies, I said memorialised that could include a symbol that those in US, UK and ANZAC countries find offensive

You're a bit behind the times Marty, If you ever get to watch the dawn service from Gallipoli each year (25 April) their is a definite place given by the ANZACS to the Turks in recognition of their fallen. I have never heard about any of this uproar business before.

I never said there was uproar I said there would be, just as there is when the Easter Lily is worn in the UK

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