Ward vs Kovalev - Who've you got?

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I can’t let a fight as big as this weekend pass without a thread asking for folks thoughts. For me this is one of those odd fights that I am looking forward to enormously but suspect might well fail to ignite. I suspect intriguing rather than exciting may accurately describe it. Got to say since this has been announced I have been picking Ward. I rate both of them highly but just think Ward is a special talent, a lot more rounded and like Mayweather one with an exceptional ability to shut opponents down and neutralise them.
 
That being said Kovalev is no underdog or no hoper, this is a genuinely close fight, and one in which you can make an argument either way. Whilst people rightly wax lyrical about Kovalev’s power his boxing ability should not be underplayed, few since Jones have solved the numerous riddles Hopkins poses so effectively. Also he is a natural big hitting light heavy, something Ward has never faced, whilst his defence has always looked solid at super middle he is not completely unhittable. Froch had his moments where he was able to land, so one would assume Sergey will be able to do likewise. How Ward stands up to that is one of the big questions in this one.
 
Also whilst Ward is hardly an old man his career post Super six has had more stops and starts than me attempting to run a marathon. Being in the ring with Kovalev would not be a place I would want to be blowing off a dose of ring rust. Despite that, I still think Ward will be victorious, he is smart at tying up/holding on the inside and fast enough that he will score with plenty when the fight is at range. If the ref is pretty easy going when it comes to his holding inside, and thus far he has tended to get away with it, I think he will secure the win on points.
 
All of this almost certainly guarantees you can put your house on Kovalev, but irrespective of the outcome I cannot wait for this fight. A genuine talent moving up to take on the best the division above him has to offer, this is the sort of fight the sport needs more of.

I can't see how anyone could get to 114-113 for Ward - maybe I need to rewatch. Saying that, both Graham Houston and Mark Butcher from Boxing Monthly scored that way, and I respect both hugely (though Graham admitted he scored everything close to Ward - which seems a strange thing to say).

Maybe boxing needs to get back to 15 round fights when the best fight the best. I don't recall this many scoring debates in the 80s.

hazharrison wrote:I can't see how anyone could get to 114-113 for Ward - maybe I need to rewatch. Saying that, both Graham Houston and Mark Butcher from Boxing Monthly scored that way, and I respect both hugely (though Graham admitted he scored everything close to Ward - which seems a strange thing to say).

Maybe boxing needs to get back to 15 round fights when the best fight the best. I don't recall this many scoring debates in the 80s.

You need to watch for the body shots Ward does when they wrestle and when they break out of the clinch as well

You can watch here without the woeful Sky commentary. Honestly I don't know how anyone can watch this and score it for Ward:

https://youtu.be/lBss_LqQzlc

Virtually all Ward's right hands and left hooks were wild and inaccurate, he really doesn't have much of an offence at all

hazharrison wrote:I can't see how anyone could get to 114-113 for Ward - maybe I need to rewatch. Saying that, both Graham Houston and Mark Butcher from Boxing Monthly scored that way, and I respect both hugely (though Graham admitted he scored everything close to Ward - which seems a strange thing to say).

Maybe boxing needs to get back to 15 round fights when the best fight the best. I don't recall this many scoring debates in the 80s.

Holmes-Witherspoon, Holmes-Spinks? For a long as there have been decisions, there has been debatable decisions, regardless of the number of rounds.

I watched with the HBO commentary, far better than sky IMO. They had Kovalev ahead but not by far. Lederman was scoring everything to Kovalev though and had him up by a pretty wide margin if i remember correctly.

I must admit, I rarely score fights live because I get lost in the action. If I score it has to be on a rewatch, which I havent done with this one yet. My thoughts on the fight were simply that it was close. I don't think anyone can say that it was a huge robbery, certainly question it by all means but it was no robbery.

I think to have Ward winning you have to give him all of the close rounds, which is obviously what the judges did.

For me though, it was a great performance by Ward in the end, and I've got huge respect for him. He was clearly the naturally smaller guy, he knew he could be hurt badly by Kovalev, but he still fought, he didn't spend all night on the back foot. Look at Wards face after in the first few rounds, even before the knockdown he looked like a man who knew he'd got himself in deep deep water. But even despite the knockdown and Kovalevs power, he found a way to establish himself in the fight.

There was some great boxing by ward and he caught Kova with some good shots, he just has nothing like the power required to trouble an established light heavy. He made Kovalev look one dimensional IMO in the end. While Kovalev fought pretty much the same fight from 1-12, Ward adapted, stayed away from that right hand, did some great body work, some great inside work and looked a lot fresher at the end of the fight.

I don't think it was a classic by any means but I really enjoyed it and i'd happily watch a rematch. I think Ward wins a rematch mroe decisively unless kovalev comes with something new, he needs to cut the ring off and try to stay out of the clinch because Ward was much more comfortable on the inside.

I agree with the post above about going back to 15 roudners for championship fights. So often now after a 12 rounder I feel like it's not quite over and a few more rounds would make it easier to pick the winner.

Agreed the Sky commentary was painful. Adam Smith is just horrific. Sycophantic and overly hammy.

More people think Kov won. Most fans and journos like aggression.

De la hoya got out boxed, when he faced mayweather. His flurries were hitting very little, but he came forward to fight, so won rounds based on that.

If that is how a round is won, then Kovalev won. I just don't score a fight on someone being aggressive, unless it is effective.

Regardless of the result and who you though deserved to win, it was very close and warrants a rematch.

Same Adam, I actually do like aggression and it always catches my eye even more when the non agressor is being extremely negative. But, I appreciate other skills just as much as aggression. As long as the less aggressive fighter is still trying to fight, which Ward was IMO. I think the knockdown in round 2 forced him to be more than just elusive, he had to make sure he won rounds so there was no option of just back footing it. He got inside Kovalev, worked in the clinches, attacked the body well and also tried to go upstairs when the chance arose.

I really liked the inside work Ward did, he wasn't letting himself get bullied by the obviosuly stronger man in Kovalev and he was getting shots off on the inside as well.

My gut feeling at the end of the fight was Kovalev by one or two rounds but I certainly can't say it was a robbery and I think overall, wards perfomrance was the more impressive one, regardless of the result.

I think Kovalev had his chance to beat Ward. In a rematch he will need to start fast and finish Ward off early. It's possible, but I think Ward will win another close decision, only this time there will be no dispute.

Kind of reminds me of Mayweather Castillo. Though I think Castillo did beat Mayweather the first time. I might go back and watch that fight later.

Agree again Adam. I think Kova definitely CAN beat Ward, but he needs to put him away or bring something new to the table in order to get the decision.

EX7EY wrote:Agree again Adam. I think Kova definitely CAN beat Ward, but he needs to put him away or bring something new to the table in order to get the decision.

Ward slowed him down. We will see what happens.

hazharrison wrote:I can't see how anyone could get to 114-113 for Ward - maybe I need to rewatch. Saying that, both Graham Houston and Mark Butcher from Boxing Monthly scored that way, and I respect both hugely (though Graham admitted he scored everything close to Ward - which seems a strange thing to say).

Maybe boxing needs to get back to 15 round fights when the best fight the best. I don't recall this many scoring debates in the 80s.

The thing is admitting you scored everything close to Ward isn't necessarily admitting you were biased. It means in those rounds you thought Ward edged it. I think when you have a fight with a lot of close rounds back to back... and in this fight you could say there weren't many decisive rounds from 3-12, you find yourself giving a round to one fighter, the next one comes along, it's pretty much the same... you score it the same. I sometimes think, 'that's 3 really tight rounds I've scored for fighter a, am I being fair to fighter b' if the next one's tight again do you score it the other way and even it up for balance? Or stick to your principles. It's the 10 pt must conundrum.

I think there are some fights where you can get a wide range of scores that are honest and credible. This was one of them. The 'unusual' fact was 3 judges all held the 'minority' view. Had it been an SD for kovalev it would have been pretty reflective of opinion.

Obviously what you look for in scoring is critical as well, ring generalship is an interesting one, are you an attack minded general, or a counter-attack general?! If you're a guy like Ward, you're not going to demonstrate your mastery of generalship by trading with a lethal puncher. Are you not in control because you're choosing to be on the back foot? On the flip side if it looks like you're seeking to grab at every opportunity, what 'control is that?'

The object is hit and not get hit so to me, who lands the greater number of quality shots is ultimately what matters. So it's part a numbers judgement and part qualitative. Whether 5 scruffy jabs = a sharp left hook is where people will never agree.

I think if everything else is even and one guy is looking to make the fight and the other isn't them the round should go to the guy trying. I can see the argument that Ward was nullifying kovalev but not doing enough back to deserve the rounds.

15 round fights just mean fighters take more unnecessary punches when their resistance is lower. The fitter guy, or the guy whose work has slowed the other down more will finish stronger... so in that respect it might be fairer but it wouldn't eradicate dubious decisions, if anything the discrepancy in score preferences is just exaggerated.

milkyboy wrote:

hazharrison wrote:I can't see how anyone could get to 114-113 for Ward - maybe I need to rewatch. Saying that, both Graham Houston and Mark Butcher from Boxing Monthly scored that way, and I respect both hugely (though Graham admitted he scored everything close to Ward - which seems a strange thing to say).

Maybe boxing needs to get back to 15 round fights when the best fight the best. I don't recall this many scoring debates in the 80s.

The thing is admitting you scored everything close to Ward isn't necessarily admitting you were biased. It means in those rounds you thought Ward edged it. I think when you have a fight with a lot of close rounds back to back... and in this fight you could say there weren't many decisive rounds from 3-12, you find yourself giving a round to one fighter, the next one comes along, it's pretty much the same... you score it the same. I sometimes think, 'that's 3 really tight rounds I've scored for fighter a, am I being fair to fighter b' if the next one's tight again do you score it the other way and even it up for balance? Or stick to your principles. It's the 10 pt must conundrum.

I think there are some fights where you can get a wide range of scores that are honest and credible. This was one of them. The 'unusual' fact was 3 judges all held the 'minority' view. Had it been an SD for kovalev it would have been pretty reflective of opinion.

Obviously what you look for in scoring is critical as well, ring generalship is an interesting one, are you an attack minded general, or a counter-attack general?! If you're a guy like Ward, you're not going to demonstrate your mastery of generalship by trading with a lethal puncher. Are you not in control because you're choosing to be on the back foot? On the flip side if it looks like you're seeking to grab at every opportunity, what 'control is that?'

The object is hit and not get hit so to me, who lands the greater number of quality shots is ultimately what matters. So it's part a numbers judgement and part qualitative. Whether 5 scruffy jabs = a sharp left hook is where people will never agree.

I think if everything else is even and one guy is looking to make the fight and the other isn't them the round should go to the guy trying. I can see the argument that Ward was nullifying kovalev but not doing enough back to deserve the rounds.

I think he actually said that as he'd picked Kovalev to win, he consciously gave Ward all the close rounds. I just find that an odd position to take?

For me, it's the fighter controlling the action. To simplify it: who got the better of the other. That could be the better defensive fighter if he's making the other man miss and countering.

Here, though, there was a definite sense watching live that Kovalev was winning the fight and his more positive approach was nicking the closer rounds. He was the fighter putting in a performance - he fought great. Ward, as gutsy and stubborn as he was to get back into it, didn't have a great night. I think back to the Holyfield vs Bowe rematch: that fight was closer than this one. Bowe did some good work at the back end of that fight and was ragging Holyfield around towards the end. Holyfield, though, had put in a performance that swayed you his way in close rounds.

My sense watching live was: 'Ward's not at the races here'. Watching the fight back, you inevitably focus on Ward to see whether you could, feasibly, give him the round. Unfortunately that leads you his way at times.

I said the same about Hagler vs Leonard. I can watch that fight today and argue Hagler won but on the night, had I been there, I find it very difficult to believe I wouldn't have been swayed by Leonard's performance.

And this weekend I'll get to meet him!

milkyboy wrote:15 round fights just mean fighters take more unnecessary punches when their resistance is lower. The fitter guy, or the guy whose work has slowed the other down more will finish stronger... so in that respect it might be fairer but it wouldn't eradicate dubious decisions, if anything the discrepancy in score preferences is just exaggerated.

I don't recall this amount of contentious decisions in 15 round fights - is that my mind playing tricks?

If you think back to significant fights over recent times: Oscar vs Whitaker, Quartey, Tito, Pacquiao vs Marquez (x 2), Barrera vs Morales (x 3), Hopkins vs Calzaghe, Taylor etc. you end up with fights where the losing fighter didn't really lose (in the truest sense).

Looking at that list, I find it difficult to believe a few of those wouldn't have been settled over 15. I can't see it happening mind you.

I had 114-113 Ward. Didn't give him a chance after 4 rounds and done well not only to slow Kovalev down but also nullify him and land hes own telling blows.

It's funny how everybody sees it differently. Some people saying Kovalev fought a great fight, I disagree a bit. I don't think he fought badly but I just don't think he looked that good in the end. It was all a bit samey and he just looked safe in the knowledge that Ward couldn't hurt him and he'd scored a knockdown early. Almost like that was just going to give him the fight. Not saying he didn't land or have some good moments, he did. As I say, my gut feeling at the end was Kova by a round or two, but thats purely a gut feeling as I didn't score it. What I did feel at the end of the fight was that Ward is 100% the superior fighter, not his finest hour admittedly but he diplayed a lot mroe skills than Kovalev in my opinion.

I think I'll watch this again tonight without commentary and score it properly. See what I come up with then.

hazharrison wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

hazharrison wrote:I can't see how anyone could get to 114-113 for Ward - maybe I need to rewatch. Saying that, both Graham Houston and Mark Butcher from Boxing Monthly scored that way, and I respect both hugely (though Graham admitted he scored everything close to Ward - which seems a strange thing to say).

Maybe boxing needs to get back to 15 round fights when the best fight the best. I don't recall this many scoring debates in the 80s.

The thing is admitting you scored everything close to Ward isn't necessarily admitting you were biased. It means in those rounds you thought Ward edged it. I think when you have a fight with a lot of close rounds back to back... and in this fight you could say there weren't many decisive rounds from 3-12, you find yourself giving a round to one fighter, the next one comes along, it's pretty much the same... you score it the same. I sometimes think, 'that's 3 really tight rounds I've scored for fighter a, am I being fair to fighter b' if the next one's tight again do you score it the other way and even it up for balance? Or stick to your principles. It's the 10 pt must conundrum.

I think there are some fights where you can get a wide range of scores that are honest and credible. This was one of them. The 'unusual' fact was 3 judges all held the 'minority' view. Had it been an SD for kovalev it would have been pretty reflective of opinion.

Obviously what you look for in scoring is critical as well, ring generalship is an interesting one, are you an attack minded general, or a counter-attack general?! If you're a guy like Ward, you're not going to demonstrate your mastery of generalship by trading with a lethal puncher. Are you not in control because you're choosing to be on the back foot? On the flip side if it looks like you're seeking to grab at every opportunity, what 'control is that?'

The object is hit and not get hit so to me, who lands the greater number of quality shots is ultimately what matters. So it's part a numbers judgement and part qualitative. Whether 5 scruffy jabs = a sharp left hook is where people will never agree.

I think if everything else is even and one guy is looking to make the fight and the other isn't them the round should go to the guy trying. I can see the argument that Ward was nullifying kovalev but not doing enough back to deserve the rounds.

I think he actually said that as he'd picked Kovalev to win, he consciously gave Ward all the close rounds. I just find that an odd position to take?

For me, it's the fighter controlling the action. To simplify it: who got the better of the other. That could be the better defensive fighter if he's making the other man miss and countering.

Here, though, there was a definite sense watching live that Kovalev was winning the fight and his more positive approach was nicking the closer rounds. He was the fighter putting in a performance - he fought great. Ward, as gutsy and stubborn as he was to get back into it, didn't have a great night. I think back to the Holyfield vs Bowe rematch: that fight was closer than this one. Bowe did some good work at the back end of that fight and was ragging Holyfield around towards the end. Holyfield, though, had put in a performance that swayed you his way in close rounds.

My sense watching live was: 'Ward's not at the races here'. Watching the fight back, you inevitably focus on Ward to see whether you could, feasibly, give him the round. Unfortunately that leads you his way at times.

I said the same about Hagler vs Leonard. I can watch that fight today and argue Hagler won but on the night, had I been there, I find it very difficult to believe I wouldn't have been swayed by Leonard's performance.

And this weekend I'll get to meet him!

Granted, if that's what the guy said it is a strange position to take! I watched the fight live, thought Ward looked out of his depth for two rounds, but was really impressed with him in the third, he came out positive and landed enough to take the round for me... maybe I gave him too much credit for his approach - he got outjabbed in the fourth but won the 5th. I felt he'd got himself into the fight. I didn't see a masterclass of defensive wizardry after that but maybe the nip and tuck type affair we all expected. I certainly never felt he was not going to go the distance after the 4th or 5th... wheras as early as the first I thought it might be a short night.

In the end I didn't think he did quite enough, but I also found myself thinking, he looks a shade slower, he's fighting a very good bigger stronger guy with serious power, in the end he's nullified those advantages and held his own for the last 3/4's of the fight.  It didn't feel like a great performance from him but in many respects it's a pretty impressive one regardless.

Kovalev showed those who thought otherwise that he's a genuine quality boxer (perhaps without a plan b) as well as a fearsome puncher. Not a great fight, but reputations intact/enhanced all round.

Milky who would you favour in a rematch?

milkyboy wrote:In the end I didn't think he did quite enough, but I also found myself thinking, he looks a shade slower, he's fighting a very good bigger stronger guy with serious power, in the end he's nullified those advantages and held his own for the last 3/4's of the fight.  It didn't feel like a great performance from him but in many respects it's a pretty impressive one regardless.

Kovalev showed those who thought otherwise that he's a genuine quality boxer (perhaps without a plan b) as well as a fearsome puncher. Not a great fight, but reputations intact/enhanced all round.

Well put there Milky for me.

EX7EY wrote:It's funny how everybody sees it differently. Some people saying Kovalev fought a great fight, I disagree a bit. I don't think he fought badly but I just don't think he looked that good in the end. It was all a bit samey and he just looked safe in the knowledge that Ward couldn't hurt him and he'd scored a knockdown early. Almost like that was just going to give him the fight. Not saying he didn't land or have some good moments, he did. As I say, my gut feeling at the end was Kova by a round or two, but thats purely a gut feeling as I didn't score it. What I did feel at the end of the fight was that Ward is 100% the superior fighter, not his finest hour admittedly but he diplayed a lot mroe skills than Kovalev in my opinion.

I think I'll watch this again tonight without commentary and score it properly. See what I come up with then.

I'd take the alternative view: Kovalev looked the better light heavyweight. I'm not sure what skills Ward was displaying? He held a lot. His jab was good at times and he threw a handful of decent body shots but I didn't think he looked great. His right hand is virtually non-existent. At times, he was flat out backpedalling into the ropes as Kovalev forced the action.

Kovalev probably did the more hurtful work downstairs (he hurt Ward in the final round) and his boxing from range was very good (particularly his jab).

AdamT wrote:Milky who would you favour in a rematch?

Tough call isn't it. I think there's a possibility that kovalev goes all out for the stoppage, in which case he either gets it or Ward rides it out kovalev punches himself out and fades down the stretch and Ward takes it on points.

Or, more likely,he fights the same fight, we assume Ward learnt a bit from last time and doesn't need a few rounds to adjust- and we see a copy of rounds 3-12 again... and another disputed decision for one of them!

hazharrison wrote:

EX7EY wrote:It's funny how everybody sees it differently. Some people saying Kovalev fought a great fight, I disagree a bit. I don't think he fought badly but I just don't think he looked that good in the end. It was all a bit samey and he just looked safe in the knowledge that Ward couldn't hurt him and he'd scored a knockdown early. Almost like that was just going to give him the fight. Not saying he didn't land or have some good moments, he did. As I say, my gut feeling at the end was Kova by a round or two, but thats purely a gut feeling as I didn't score it. What I did feel at the end of the fight was that Ward is 100% the superior fighter, not his finest hour admittedly but he diplayed a lot mroe skills than Kovalev in my opinion.

I think I'll watch this again tonight without commentary and score it properly. See what I come up with then.

I'd take the alternative view: Kovalev looked the better light heavyweight. I'm not sure what skills Ward was displaying? He held a lot. His jab was good at times and he threw a handful of decent body shots but I didn't think he looked great. His right hand is virtually non-existent. At times, he was flat out backpedalling into the ropes as Kovalev forced the action.

Kovalev probably did the more hurtful work downstairs (he hurt Ward in the final round) and his boxing from range was very good (particularly his jab).

I'm going to watch it again tonight Haz, my thoughts may change but as I have said a few times, I actually had kovalev winning the fight at the end. In the end I just found myself more impressed with the way Ward stayed in the fight, than I did with Kovalevs work. I think he should have done more to put Ward away, Ward was massively bothered by the power at the beginning of the fight, a better fighter wuld have fund a way to stop him IMO. I personally felt like Kovalev was doing most of the holding, whereas Ward was working inside the clinches. The skills Ward was displaying, IMO, were his body shots and his inside game. Also the fact that he evaded another big right from round two onwards. I think as well, I found it more impressive against somebody like Kovalev, much bigger, stronger, natural at the weight.

As I say, i'll definitely rewatch it tonight. Just putting my opinions out there. I think Kovalev won, but I don't think anybody can really cry robbery, and I think overall I was more impressed with Ward, in the end.

EX7EY wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

EX7EY wrote:It's funny how everybody sees it differently. Some people saying Kovalev fought a great fight, I disagree a bit. I don't think he fought badly but I just don't think he looked that good in the end. It was all a bit samey and he just looked safe in the knowledge that Ward couldn't hurt him and he'd scored a knockdown early. Almost like that was just going to give him the fight. Not saying he didn't land or have some good moments, he did. As I say, my gut feeling at the end was Kova by a round or two, but thats purely a gut feeling as I didn't score it. What I did feel at the end of the fight was that Ward is 100% the superior fighter, not his finest hour admittedly but he diplayed a lot mroe skills than Kovalev in my opinion.

I think I'll watch this again tonight without commentary and score it properly. See what I come up with then.

I'd take the alternative view: Kovalev looked the better light heavyweight. I'm not sure what skills Ward was displaying? He held a lot. His jab was good at times and he threw a handful of decent body shots but I didn't think he looked great. His right hand is virtually non-existent. At times, he was flat out backpedalling into the ropes as Kovalev forced the action.

Kovalev probably did the more hurtful work downstairs (he hurt Ward in the final round) and his boxing from range was very good (particularly his jab).

I'm going to watch it again tonight Haz, my thoughts may change but as I have said a few times, I actually had kovalev winning the fight at the end. In the end I just found myself more impressed with the way Ward stayed in the fight, than I did with Kovalevs work. I think he should have done more to put Ward away, Ward was massively bothered by the power at the beginning of the fight, a better fighter wuld have fund a way to stop him IMO. I personally felt like Kovalev was doing most of the holding, whereas Ward was working inside the clinches. The skills Ward was displaying, IMO, were his body shots and his inside game. Also the fact that he evaded another big right from round two onwards. I think as well, I found it more impressive against somebody like Kovalev, much bigger, stronger, natural at the weight.

As I say, i'll definitely rewatch it tonight. Just putting my opinions out there. I think Kovalev won, but I don't think anybody can really cry robbery, and I think overall I was more impressed with Ward, in the end.

Ward showed real guts to claw and fiddle his way back into the fight. After being hurt with a jab in the opener and then dropped with a right, that took some doing.

The trouble with fighters as heavy-handed as Kovalev is, they usually have stamina issues. He admitted as much post-fight (that he slowed after half-way, lost speed etc.). If he'd tried to put Ward away early with a concerted effort, he might well have fallen apart late.

Only watched the fight the once on Sunday morning and for what its worth I had Kovalev 3 pts up - a worthy winner who fought a disciplined fight in my eyes. Ward simply didn't do enough to win that fight even though Paulie Mallignaggi was trying to convince us Ward was putting on some sort of masterclass. I agree there were many close rounds but I felt I was generous in giving Ward some of those - a lot of Kovalevs work was completely ignored by the awful Sky team.

Cheers, Rodders

a lot of Kovalevs work was completely ignored by the awful Sky team.

This! 100% The nuthugging was unbelievable. You could here the horror in Smith's voice when he mentioned HBO had Kov up by several rounds.

Kovalev has never noticeably slowed down before cos he's usually had thing his own way, fighting his fight at his pace. Although he initially dealt well with Ward in the clinch, as the fight progressed it more of toll on him, that with the clean body work of Ward it took him to a place he hasn't been before and he wilted. Although he wasn't it trouble, he speed was noticeably slower and his punches lacked the snap of earlier rounds.

I can only see a Ward UD in the rematch his unless learn from this and work alot more on his infighting and stamina.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Kovalev has never noticeably slowed down before cos he's usually had thing his own way, fighting his fight at his pace. Although he initially dealt well with Ward in the clinch, as the fight progressed it more of toll on him, that with the clean body work of Ward it took him to a place he hasn't been before and he wilted. Although he wasn't it trouble, he speed was noticeably slower and his punches lacked the snap of earlier rounds.

I can only see a Ward UD in the rematch his unless learn from this and work alot more on his infighting and stamina.

Why on earth Byrd allowed as much grappling to go is mystifying - it was bordering Akinwande/Lewis at times, Mills Lane would've had that broke up considerably earlier. I'm not sure either guy could do much better to be honest if another fight was made - Kovalev looked like he had as good as variety/technique as Ward in my eyes although I'm told this is rubbish as Ward is some sort of master technician.

Cheers, Rodders

Rodney wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Kovalev has never noticeably slowed down before cos he's usually had thing his own way, fighting his fight at his pace. Although he initially dealt well with Ward in the clinch, as the fight progressed it more of toll on him, that with the clean body work of Ward it took him to a place he hasn't been before and he wilted. Although he wasn't it trouble, he speed was noticeably slower and his punches lacked the snap of earlier rounds.

I can only see a Ward UD in the rematch his unless learn from this and work alot more on his infighting and stamina.

Why on earth Byrd allowed as much grappling to go is mystifying - it was bordering Akinwande/Lewis at times, Mills Lane would've had that broke up considerably earlier. I'm not sure either guy could do much better to be honest if another fight was made - Kovalev looked like he had as good as variety/technique as Ward in my eyes although I'm told this is rubbish as Ward is some sort of master technician.

Cheers, Rodders

Kovalev had to literally lock Ward up and walk/carry him to the ropes/corner to get out of the clinch. Ward's trainer was constantly talking to Byrd, also (almost trying to lead him along).

Rodney wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Kovalev has never noticeably slowed down before cos he's usually had thing his own way, fighting his fight at his pace. Although he initially dealt well with Ward in the clinch, as the fight progressed it more of toll on him, that with the clean body work of Ward it took him to a place he hasn't been before and he wilted. Although he wasn't it trouble, he speed was noticeably slower and his punches lacked the snap of earlier rounds.

I can only see a Ward UD in the rematch his unless learn from this and work alot more on his infighting and stamina.

Why on earth Byrd allowed as much grappling to go is mystifying - it was bordering Akinwande/Lewis at times, Mills Lane would've had that broke up considerably earlier. I'm not sure either guy could do much better to be honest if another fight was made - Kovalev looked like he had as good as variety/technique as Ward in my eyes although I'm told this is rubbish as Ward is some sort of master technician.

Cheers, Rodders

Wouldn't say it was Wlad v Povekin esq but the was more then your usual fight. Not many posters complained when Hatton utilized it in his pomp and there was uproar when Cortez put a complete stop to it in the Mayweather fight. Kovalev was happy to oblige at first and was man handling Ward until his stamina began to drop.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

Rodney wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Kovalev has never noticeably slowed down before cos he's usually had thing his own way, fighting his fight at his pace. Although he initially dealt well with Ward in the clinch, as the fight progressed it more of toll on him, that with the clean body work of Ward it took him to a place he hasn't been before and he wilted. Although he wasn't it trouble, he speed was noticeably slower and his punches lacked the snap of earlier rounds.

I can only see a Ward UD in the rematch his unless learn from this and work alot more on his infighting and stamina.

Why on earth Byrd allowed as much grappling to go is mystifying - it was bordering Akinwande/Lewis at times, Mills Lane would've had that broke up considerably earlier. I'm not sure either guy could do much better to be honest if another fight was made - Kovalev looked like he had as good as variety/technique as Ward in my eyes although I'm told this is rubbish as Ward is some sort of master technician.

Cheers, Rodders

Wouldn't say it was Wlad v Povekin esq but the was more then your usual fight. Not many posters complained when Hatton utilized it in his pomp and there was uproar when Cortez put a complete stop to it in the Mayweather fight. Kovalev was happy to oblige at first and was man handling Ward until his stamina began to drop.

He had no choice - after Ward realised he was gonna be bombed at range he turned it ugly - a stronger referee was needed.

Cheers, Rodders

A lot of people seem to favouring Ward in the close rounds because he was better than he was in the earlier rounds. For me, that's not a reason to score rounds for someone. For the round by round scoring to be effective, you've got to forget about the rounds that happened beforehand. If the fight was flipped and the first rounds were close then there's no way, in my opinion, people score them all for Ward.

Didn't see John David Jackson complaining and also it wasn't exactly a secret that Ward does this. Maybe Kovalev should have prepared for this a bit more and position himself a bit better to avoid this?

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Didn't see John David Jackson complaining and also it wasn't exactly a secret that Ward does this. Maybe Kovalev should have prepared for this a bit more and position himself a bit better to avoid this?

Looked like they did - however cant imagine they were anticipating a ref that was going let it happen so frequently and for so long.

Cheers,

Group Cpt Lionel Mandrake wrote:

a lot of Kovalevs work was completely ignored by the awful Sky team.

This! 100% The nuthugging was unbelievable. You could here the horror in Smith's voice when he mentioned HBO had Kov up by several rounds.

The undercard was hilarious.

I loved the fact they were so desperate to make out that Chilemba wasn't taking a battering because they didn't want Bellew to feel bad for struggling against him.

I'm definitely gonna watch that fan footage of the full fight, it will make a big difference

One thing that has always stuck in my mind was when I saw Froch vs Kessler II, Kesslers punches were like absolute dynamite

Its only when you are actually in the arena can you see the difference in damage being dealt

I haven't watched The Froch /Kessler rematch since. I remember Froch out worked him. Kessler did land some beauty punches though and it was a close fight too.

Ward fans maybe leaning too heavily on a handful of body punches because of the lack of meaningful headshots?

If those body punches had slowed Kov down I'd be more impressed by them but they didn't really take much toll from where I was sitting the same fight ensued Ward back pedalling Kov chasing him around they didn't discernibly change the course of the action for me

Gotta disagree HJ, Kov looked lost in various rounds and esp 11/12 looked knackered and like he didn't have a clue on how to get to Ward anymore.

Still think it's a close fight to call and those shouting robbery are just getting caught up that they themselves called it wrong or are just wumming.

Bring on the rematch and lets see what happens then.

Oh also didn't Paulie mention that Kov had been training with some MMA fighter/trainer as well to learn how to tie up on the inside (pretty sure it was mentioned in the 1st round or so)

The one thing I am not getting here is all the posts suggesting ward spent a lot of the fight running away from Kova. Admittedly I was tired when I watched it, but I've seen fights where one man runs while the other man hunts and I just don't think that was the case in this fight.

I remember being pretty impressed with how much ward actually stayed in range considering how much he was troubled by the power of Kovalev.

Im looking forward to watching it again tonight even more so now to see if I was wrong in my initial assesment.

Definitely wumming going on in this thread. Herman it wasn't a robbery, quit trolling lol

EX7EY wrote:The one thing I am not getting here is all the posts suggesting ward spent a lot of the fight running away from Kova. Admittedly I was tired when I watched it, but I've seen fights where one man runs while the other man hunts and I just don't think that was the case in this fight.

I remember being pretty impressed with how much ward actually stayed in range considering how much he was troubled by the power of Kovalev.

Im looking forward to watching it again tonight even more so now to see if I was wrong in my initial assesment.

He was definitely not actively looking to engage unless he could get on the inside where he could wrestle, although he did stand a bit more in the championship rounds

When people say statements like "Kovalev couldn't cut the ring off"

That basically means he had to chase someone around

Remember Rocky I with the chickens?

Rocky 2 you mean.

Not a robbery as I can see how you could score that to Ward if you score heavily for make an opponent miss

But I do smell a bit of home cooking..

To be honest watching that video that I presented above I had it clearer to Kov had it closer live

Bottom line 3/4 approx of online pundits have it to Kov..

But of course Ward fans are now saying we kdsab, don't understand the finer nuances, are coarse knuckledraggers etc lol

F..k online pundits. They are likely looking forward to GGG vs Monroe jr 2!

I myself have stated kova didn't cut the ring off well, but I don't think there is anything wrong with spending sometime staying out of range and making someone come after you. It's not something you want to watch for 12 rounds admittedly, but I don't think it was all Ward did.

I actually took it as more that Kov was walking in a straight line and Ward just stepped out of the way and out of trouble

Agreed the one thing Kov could improve for rematch is how he cuts the ring off

Golovkin is different class at doing it he should study him

Golovkin fights bums. Hardly a fair comparison to the beast at 175!

Would love to see Golovkin fight Ward what a fight