Ward vs Kovalev - Who've you got?

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I can’t let a fight as big as this weekend pass without a thread asking for folks thoughts. For me this is one of those odd fights that I am looking forward to enormously but suspect might well fail to ignite. I suspect intriguing rather than exciting may accurately describe it. Got to say since this has been announced I have been picking Ward. I rate both of them highly but just think Ward is a special talent, a lot more rounded and like Mayweather one with an exceptional ability to shut opponents down and neutralise them.
 
That being said Kovalev is no underdog or no hoper, this is a genuinely close fight, and one in which you can make an argument either way. Whilst people rightly wax lyrical about Kovalev’s power his boxing ability should not be underplayed, few since Jones have solved the numerous riddles Hopkins poses so effectively. Also he is a natural big hitting light heavy, something Ward has never faced, whilst his defence has always looked solid at super middle he is not completely unhittable. Froch had his moments where he was able to land, so one would assume Sergey will be able to do likewise. How Ward stands up to that is one of the big questions in this one.
 
Also whilst Ward is hardly an old man his career post Super six has had more stops and starts than me attempting to run a marathon. Being in the ring with Kovalev would not be a place I would want to be blowing off a dose of ring rust. Despite that, I still think Ward will be victorious, he is smart at tying up/holding on the inside and fast enough that he will score with plenty when the fight is at range. If the ref is pretty easy going when it comes to his holding inside, and thus far he has tended to get away with it, I think he will secure the win on points.
 
All of this almost certainly guarantees you can put your house on Kovalev, but irrespective of the outcome I cannot wait for this fight. A genuine talent moving up to take on the best the division above him has to offer, this is the sort of fight the sport needs more of.

I think it's been mentioned already but Ward's coolness under pressure needs commending. Another great attribute

Not a great fight but a thoroughly enjoyable one nevertheless don't get me wrong I wouldn't mind seeing it again at all and see what adjustments have been made I see where they're coming from those who say Ward wins easy next time but I don't agree. Just hope we get the same ref or someone who will let them wrestle it out. I enjoyed that part of the fight

I have a sneaky feeling Kovalev will shock a few people

I would pick him again

I think those who picked Ward know deep down they got a bit lucky but can't bring themselves to admit it..

I hope if there's a rematch, that Kovalev wins. If Ward were to win I can imagine those who either picked him to win on Saturday, or thought that he did win would somehow feel vindicated in some strange way.

The American boxing establishment wanted Ward to win and they made it happen

Nevada criminal statutes provide a detailed definition of theft that encompasses a number of specific actions. These laws state that a person commits theft by: controlling the property of another person with the intent to deprive that person of the property, obtaining services, products, or other items only available for compensation, without paying or agreeing to pay compensation, etc. Andre Ward, the three Nevada State Athletic Commission judges, and the referee should be charged with theft for the robbery they committed on Sergey Kovalev Saturday evening. It took the effort of these five people to conspire and defeat Sergey Kovalev: I saw more holding from Ward than a Dancing With The Stars participant! Kovalev hurt Ward with a jab in the first round, then knocked his ass down in the second! Ward looked uncomfortable throughout and at no point in the match did he ever take control. Look, Kovalev was the champion, you are supposed to defeat the champion soundly, not just survive fighting the champion. As of Saturday evening, Ward is the establishment champion and Kovalev is the people's champion. To those who co-signed the decision, you don't know Poopie about boxing.

http://www.boxingscene.com/beterbiev-line-ward-kovalev-winner-says-michel--111045

Herman you aren't sitting on the fence, on who you think won

Pathetic Stevenson calling out Ward last Saturday knows the fight can't  happen in 2017 what a complete conman Stevenson is

Stevenson will fight Ward no problem. He knows Ward won't kill him the way Kov would. Also he will think he has a punchers chance with that dangerous left. To be fair if he lands it clean, I don't know if any 175 fighter can take it.

If Stevenson lands it, I agree I'm not sure anyone can

Is his left the biggest punch in boxing? Obviously if it lands cleanly.

Dylan1979 wrote:Nevada criminal statutes provide a detailed definition of theft that encompasses a number of specific actions. These laws state that a person commits theft by: controlling the property of another person with the intent to deprive that person of the property, obtaining services, products, or other items only available for compensation, without paying or agreeing to pay compensation, etc. Andre Ward, the three Nevada State Athletic Commission judges, and the referee should be charged with theft for the robbery they committed on Sergey Kovalev Saturday evening. It took the effort of these five people to conspire and defeat Sergey Kovalev: I saw more holding from Ward than a Dancing With The Stars participant! Kovalev hurt Ward with a jab in the first round, then knocked his ass down in the second! Ward looked uncomfortable throughout and at no point in the match did he ever take control.  Look, Kovalev was the champion, you are supposed to defeat the champion soundly, not just survive fighting the champion. As of Saturday evening, Ward is the establishment champion and Kovalev is the people's champion. To those who co-signed the decision, you don't know Poopie about boxing.

A bit over the top, it was a contentious decision where the winner isn't a fans favourite so a big hoopla is made of it, Ward deserved to win.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Dylan1979 wrote:Nevada criminal statutes provide a detailed definition of theft that encompasses a number of specific actions. These laws state that a person commits theft by: controlling the property of another person with the intent to deprive that person of the property, obtaining services, products, or other items only available for compensation, without paying or agreeing to pay compensation, etc. Andre Ward, the three Nevada State Athletic Commission judges, and the referee should be charged with theft for the robbery they committed on Sergey Kovalev Saturday evening. It took the effort of these five people to conspire and defeat Sergey Kovalev: I saw more holding from Ward than a Dancing With The Stars participant! Kovalev hurt Ward with a jab in the first round, then knocked his ass down in the second! Ward looked uncomfortable throughout and at no point in the match did he ever take control.  Look, Kovalev was the champion, you are supposed to defeat the champion soundly, not just survive fighting the champion. As of Saturday evening, Ward is the establishment champion and Kovalev is the people's champion. To those who co-signed the decision, you don't know Poopie about boxing.

A bit over the top, it was a contentious decision where the winner isn't a fans favourite so a big hoopla is made of it, Ward deserved to win.

I never buy into this you have to beat the champ soundly. No you have to win the contest, no matter if belts are on the line or not. I scored it 7-5 Ward, but if I gave the tight 6 or 12th round to Kovalev, then he wins.

This wasn't a robbery, but more people think Kovalev won. I just don't happen to be one of them.

Scored it to Kovalev by 1 (i.e. the knockdown making the difference) while feeling I gave most (but not all) close rounds to Ward. Haven't re-watched since, but it felt like one of those fights where you could make a point for quite a wide range of scores. The word "robbery" is overused in boxing IMO, there have been some (plenty) of genuine robberies where you couldn't realistically make the case for the actual result, but for me this is not at all one of those times. Compubox shows I think that Kovalev landed 10 more punches than Ward throughout the fight (fewer than one punch per round on average), and while one can't score fights by compubox it does suggest there wasn't a lot in it.

Personally thought the fight was intriguing rather than a classic, but it was wonderful to see two genuinely top ranked P4Pers meet in the ring. Boxing needs more fights like this.

AdamT wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Dylan1979 wrote:Nevada criminal statutes provide a detailed definition of theft that encompasses a number of specific actions. These laws state that a person commits theft by: controlling the property of another person with the intent to deprive that person of the property, obtaining services, products, or other items only available for compensation, without paying or agreeing to pay compensation, etc. Andre Ward, the three Nevada State Athletic Commission judges, and the referee should be charged with theft for the robbery they committed on Sergey Kovalev Saturday evening. It took the effort of these five people to conspire and defeat Sergey Kovalev: I saw more holding from Ward than a Dancing With The Stars participant! Kovalev hurt Ward with a jab in the first round, then knocked his ass down in the second! Ward looked uncomfortable throughout and at no point in the match did he ever take control.  Look, Kovalev was the champion, you are supposed to defeat the champion soundly, not just survive fighting the champion. As of Saturday evening, Ward is the establishment champion and Kovalev is the people's champion. To those who co-signed the decision, you don't know Poopie about boxing.

A bit over the top, it was a contentious decision where the winner isn't a fans favourite so a big hoopla is made of it, Ward deserved to win.

I never buy into this you have to beat the champ soundly. No you have to win the contest, no matter if belts are on the line or not. I scored it 7-5 Ward, but if I gave the tight 6 or 12th round to Kovalev, then he wins.

This wasn't a robbery, but more people think Kovalev won. I just don't happen to be one of them.

It might make things more exciting though if the challenger did have to beat the champ soundly? No more trying to steal rounds, the challenger would have to go out and put on more of a show.

http://sabotagetimes.com/sport/the-5-biggest-robberies-in-boxing-history

Atila wrote:

AdamT wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Dylan1979 wrote:Nevada criminal statutes provide a detailed definition of theft that encompasses a number of specific actions. These laws state that a person commits theft by: controlling the property of another person with the intent to deprive that person of the property, obtaining services, products, or other items only available for compensation, without paying or agreeing to pay compensation, etc. Andre Ward, the three Nevada State Athletic Commission judges, and the referee should be charged with theft for the robbery they committed on Sergey Kovalev Saturday evening. It took the effort of these five people to conspire and defeat Sergey Kovalev: I saw more holding from Ward than a Dancing With The Stars participant! Kovalev hurt Ward with a jab in the first round, then knocked his ass down in the second! Ward looked uncomfortable throughout and at no point in the match did he ever take control.  Look, Kovalev was the champion, you are supposed to defeat the champion soundly, not just survive fighting the champion. As of Saturday evening, Ward is the establishment champion and Kovalev is the people's champion. To those who co-signed the decision, you don't know Poopie about boxing.

A bit over the top, it was a contentious decision where the winner isn't a fans favourite so a big hoopla is made of it, Ward deserved to win.

I never buy into this you have to beat the champ soundly. No you have to win the contest, no matter if belts are on the line or not. I scored it 7-5 Ward, but if I gave the tight 6 or 12th round to Kovalev, then he wins.

This wasn't a robbery, but more people think Kovalev won. I just don't happen to be one of them.

It might make things more exciting though if the challenger did have to beat the champ soundly? No more trying to steal rounds, the challenger would have to go out and put on more of a show.

I don't know. I guess it definitely makes more of a spectacle for fans, but can the champ just hang on and do enough? Can also go that way as well.

AdamT wrote:Is his left the biggest punch in boxing? Obviously if it lands cleanly.

Ward would neutralise it with little difficulty and school him in twelve very one-sided rounds. Stevenson isn't as good a boxer as Kovalev by a long way

Not a bad left cross though is it could definitely do away with Ward if it landed on the sweet spot

Herman Jaeger wrote:

AdamT wrote:Is his left the biggest punch in boxing? Obviously if it lands cleanly.

Ward would neutralise it with little difficulty and school him in twelve very one-sided rounds. Stevenson isn't as good a boxer as Kovalev by a long way

Not a bad left cross though is it could definitely do away with Ward if it landed on the sweet spot

He is inferior to Kovaelv, but he could walk through Wards punches. I would favour Ward to win, but could be a banana skin.

As per Queensbury Boxing Rules, ( The Official Rules for Boxing ) , holding and wrestling are fouls, as are rabbit punches, elbows, headbutts, low blows, punching the back.

Did referee Byrd call any of these against Ward?

The film studies will be online soon, the footage will not lie, it'll be there for everybody to see. Ward fouled over 80 times in the fight.
Don't just take my word for it, it is what it is.

Dylan1979 wrote:As per Queensbury Boxing Rules, ( The Official Rules for Boxing ) , holding and wrestling are fouls, as are rabbit punches, elbows, headbutts, low blows, punching the back.

Did referee Byrd call any of these against Ward?

The film studies will be online soon, the footage will not lie, it'll be there for everybody to see. Ward fouled over 80 times in the fight.
Don't just take my word for it, it is what it is.

Well you have certainly made a first impression! Welcome!

Dylan1979 wrote:As per Queensbury Boxing Rules, ( The Official Rules for Boxing ) , holding and wrestling are fouls, as are rabbit punches, elbows, headbutts, low blows, punching the back.

Did referee Byrd call any of these against Ward?

The film studies will be online soon, the footage will not lie, it'll be there for everybody to see. Ward fouled over 80 times in the fight.
Don't just take my word for it, it is what it is.

Ward was fouling, grappling etc. but if the ref doesn't call it, it doesn't matter.

Regarding Compubox: Kovalev's punches were cleaner and usually of better quality. Ward rarely landed clean and even when he did, Kovalev was walking through them while applying pressure.

If I'm chasing you and you back-up before flicking a few jabs that score - but I then crack you with a solid jab/right that hits home with a thud, punch stats are irelevant (but we know that anyway).

hazharrison wrote:

Dylan1979 wrote:As per Queensbury Boxing Rules, ( The Official Rules for Boxing ) ,

If I'm chasing you and you back-up before flicking a few jabs that score - but I then crack you with a solid jab/right that hits home with a thud, punch stats are irelevant (but we know that anyway).

If you back me up, I will kick you in the stones!

F'd up the quote, that's for you Haz!!

Rematch should take place at MSG, New York, if not Russia (as if)

Neutral ref and judges. Ward and his camp will do everything possible to avoid this.

Dylan1979 wrote:Rematch should take place at MSG, New York, if not Russia (as if)

Neutral ref and judges. Ward and his camp will do everything possible to avoid this.

I agree, it should be held elsewhere. Have 3 judges that are not American or Russian. I think Ward will surprise you. He does have guts.

Dylan1979 wrote:Rematch should take place at MSG, New York, if not Russia (as if)

Neutral ref and judges. Ward and his camp will do everything possible to avoid this.

I don't think we'll see an immediate do over. Ward has the option to pay Kovalev off for a fight or two.

Tough, though, with the likes of Beterbiev and Stevenson at 175. I can't imagine HBO will want another Paul Smith/Russell Brand type affair.

The ref didn't call the fouls for a reason! C'mon, how can you miss 80 fouls, constant wrestling and grappling by Ward?

He does it all the time, Froch, Kessler....

Rules are rules. They do not become irrelevant just because the ref does not call them. Bottom line, Ward got the decision yes, but the majority of people out there know who the real winner is.

People have an opinion on who they think should have won, it's absurd that some seem to think that their view is more important than others.

There's a difference between knowing somebody fouls than seeing them, Ward like Hopkins before him is a master of doing it when the referee can't see, very easy with 360 cameras to see things.

Trust me Ward was fouling a ridiculous amount

There is a video online showing some absolutely disgusting attempts, but Kovalev was too smart for it and avoided it

Had he not been the fight probably would have ended around the 3rd round with an "accidental" clash of heads

And if the ref can't see it he must be blind or biased

Now we are defending blatant cheating?

Wow...

You should watch some post fight Hopkins interviews if you think that's at all true BF88, he openly admitted to holding the opposite arm to where the referee was and in general knew what he could and couldn't see. Defending cheating isn't as bad as some who have defended Kovalev's racism.

People hate Ward. He is everything GGG isn't. This post actually mirrors what Haz was saying yesterday.

Ward is the one fighter that was seen that could beat GGG, so fans will hate Ward and hope and pray he loses.

Ward can become the new Mayweather. I think he should play on the hate. If he fights tough guys, people will pay to see him knocked out.

It is a business after all. If I were Ward, I would tell fans they have no clue what they are looking at and he is still the man and undefeated.

Trust me this stupid WWE stuff really works. Ward can have a couple of nice pay days. Boxing needs a fighter that people can hate. It sells. It worked for Naseem and it definitely worked for Floyd.

The fact he won a controversial decision can work in his favour, in a business sense of course. I know us fans love the sport and most hate the fake sh1t that goes on for the camera. But it's a business and it sells. Reaches the casual fan that will pay dollar to keep boxing thriving. Whether we like to admit it or not, boxing needs big fights (money).

For boxing to survive, we need d1ckheads to hate and also for fans to love.

So Andre if your reading this, or anyone in contact with him (obviously not), be a c..t. Bask on your glory and be a cocky arrogant git. Even more so than you are. You will make huge money and as long as you take on the tough fights, fans will grow to respect you.

It's a win, win situation. Time to make some good money and make a name for yourself!

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You should watch some post fight Hopkins interviews if you think that's at all true BF88, he openly admitted to holding the opposite arm to where the referee was and in general knew what he could and couldn't see. Defending cheating isn't as bad as some who have defended Kovalev's racism.

What has that got to do with anything you knob ? We're talking about boxing - Ward was deliberately fouling he got away with it fair play.

Cheers, Rodders

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You should watch some post fight Hopkins interviews if you think that's at all true BF88, he openly admitted to holding the opposite arm to where the referee was and in general knew what he could and couldn't see. Defending cheating isn't as bad as some who have defended Kovalev's racism.

I don't care what persona Ward has or what his camera personality is

Ward ducks low

Throws no punches whatsoever

Then springs up at a 45 degree angle towards Kovalev's face

Seeing that I don't really need anything else, or is headbutting ok in boxing now?

Ward doesn't have as great skills as Floyd and I'm a Floyd fan so stop talking nonsense

See this is the problem

So When Floyd cracked Ortiz for doing the exact same thing, (Which I fully stand behind him) Ortiz was a disgusting cheater, but Ward isn't

Man you guys are being ridiculous

Floyd is miles better than Ward in boxing, its not even a contest

Rodney wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You should watch some post fight Hopkins interviews if you think that's at all true BF88, he openly admitted to holding the opposite arm to where the referee was and in general knew what he could and couldn't see. Defending cheating isn't as bad as some who have defended Kovalev's racism.

What has that got to do with anything you knob ? We're talking about boxing - Ward was deliberately fouling he got away with it fair play.

Cheers, Rodders

Classy as ever Rodney.

Cheers, Hammer

Ward has to cheat. He will never fight Kov in a fair fight.....never!

If he does, he'll get stopped, plain and simple.

I don't know whose worse....Salido or Ward for dirtiest boxer in the game today.

In terms of skill, Ward and Floyd, like chalk and cheese. If you actually watch ward closely, slow mo's and all, his actual boxing technique stinks....slapping with the right hand, punching with the back of the glove etc.

Everybody wants to be the new Floyd, sorry but Andre 'Son of Gifts' Ward is not the man to step up.

Buddy McGirt, a big Ward fan, had Kovalev winning

'I don't think Ward did enough to beat the champion'

E
Rematch is needed.

Herman Jaeger wrote:Buddy McGirt, a big Ward fan, had Kovalev winning

'I don't think Ward did enough to beat the champion'

Do you think it's time to let it go now, Hermy?

He's hardly mentioned it!

McGirt is as big a fan of Kovalev as he is Ward, in short he has no affiliation to either of them.

AdamT wrote:He's hardly mentioned it!

I know, but I'm worried he might get a bee in his bonnet about it... just trying to nip it in the bud!

Just keeping the debate alive wasn't even a difficult fight to score

Kovalev clearly won

I'll only say Ward won it Adam if you admit Santa Cruz beat Frampton lol

You're clearly just a wind up merchant if you don't believe it was a difficult fight to score but you have admitted to being a WUM in the past so no surprise.

C'mon everyone knows Santa did enough to nick that fight

I doubt you've even watched it.

Herman Jaeger wrote:Just keeping the debate alive

By introducing maggots to the rotting corpse

Just joking Carl won the fight, just

Just mentioned what McGirt thought what's the problem with that

Thought I'd bring his name into it as azumah used to rate McGirt very highly as a trainer thought he was one of the best out there

Getting angry sign you're losing the debate..

There is an argument for Santa Cruz beating Frampton.

I think Frampton won, but if someone scored it for LSC, that's no problem.

Very close fight too.