Ward vs Kovalev - Who've you got?

First topic message reminder :

I can’t let a fight as big as this weekend pass without a thread asking for folks thoughts. For me this is one of those odd fights that I am looking forward to enormously but suspect might well fail to ignite. I suspect intriguing rather than exciting may accurately describe it. Got to say since this has been announced I have been picking Ward. I rate both of them highly but just think Ward is a special talent, a lot more rounded and like Mayweather one with an exceptional ability to shut opponents down and neutralise them.
 
That being said Kovalev is no underdog or no hoper, this is a genuinely close fight, and one in which you can make an argument either way. Whilst people rightly wax lyrical about Kovalev’s power his boxing ability should not be underplayed, few since Jones have solved the numerous riddles Hopkins poses so effectively. Also he is a natural big hitting light heavy, something Ward has never faced, whilst his defence has always looked solid at super middle he is not completely unhittable. Froch had his moments where he was able to land, so one would assume Sergey will be able to do likewise. How Ward stands up to that is one of the big questions in this one.
 
Also whilst Ward is hardly an old man his career post Super six has had more stops and starts than me attempting to run a marathon. Being in the ring with Kovalev would not be a place I would want to be blowing off a dose of ring rust. Despite that, I still think Ward will be victorious, he is smart at tying up/holding on the inside and fast enough that he will score with plenty when the fight is at range. If the ref is pretty easy going when it comes to his holding inside, and thus far he has tended to get away with it, I think he will secure the win on points.
 
All of this almost certainly guarantees you can put your house on Kovalev, but irrespective of the outcome I cannot wait for this fight. A genuine talent moving up to take on the best the division above him has to offer, this is the sort of fight the sport needs more of.

Ok if it's starting to wind people up I'll leave it alone

I was only debating not my intention to wind

I won't comment on the topic again I've had my say I'll let other people have the final say

milkyboy wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:Buddy McGirt, a big Ward fan, had Kovalev winning

'I don't think Ward did enough to beat the champion'

Do you think it's time to let it go now, Hermy?

Just like you and me have let Hagler Leonard go.

Yeah milky's a fine one to talk no doubt

If people are wound up, they don't have to comment.

Nothing wrong with working it to the bone I think it's still got a fair amount to run sorry I won't be able to take part

I'm a man of my word

Atila wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:Buddy McGirt, a big Ward fan, had Kovalev winning

'I don't think Ward did enough to beat the champion'

Do you think it's time to let it go now, Hermy?

Just like you and me have let Hagler Leonard go.

The guys who are happy with the original decision aren't the ones with anything to let go. It's the whinging losers still bitching 30 years on. I'm trying to save Hermy from years of bitterness

Herman Jaeger wrote:Ok if it's starting to wind people up I'll leave it alone

I was only debating not my intention to wind

I won't comment on the topic again I've had my say I'll let other people have the final say

Lighten up Hermy. You sound like Adam... taking your ball home... only to bring it back a few minutes later asking people to play

It does rankle me this one please forgive one and all

Good to see Nick Blackwell in good spirits missing the boxing though obviously:

https://youtu.be/qnQJdzDWC5c

And yes that is Lloyd Honeyghan in this video:

https://youtu.be/QD4xsWaHXT4

Milky people huff way me mostly. Rarely is it the other way around. I was ignorant to Jabby to be fair. I hold my hands up.

Boys, just a bit of banter. Fill your boots, on whatever you want for as long as you want. It's a public forum.

Herman Jaeger wrote:And yes that is Lloyd Honeyghan in this video:

https://youtu.be/QD4xsWaHXT4

Holy sheet! I would never have recognized him.

milkyboy wrote:

Atila wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:Buddy McGirt, a big Ward fan, had Kovalev winning

'I don't think Ward did enough to beat the champion'

Do you think it's time to let it go now, Hermy?

Just like you and me have let Hagler Leonard go.

The guys who are happy with the original decision aren't the ones with anything to let go. It's the whinging losers still bitching 30 years on. I'm trying to save Hermy from years of bitterness

It's only 29 years of bitterness.

Wow that was a long read! After all that I thought I'd give my two penn'orth. Going in to the fight I was convinced that Ward was going to put on some sort of masterclass, a clinic as some like to call it. I had several friends who like a bet telling me that backing Ward on points was virtually free money, then the fight began.

Almost immediately I had the overwhelming feeling that Ward was going to get beaten and beaten badly, that thought grew following the knockdown and I was convinced he didn't make it to the end of the 3rd. It turned out I was wrong.

The Sky team commentary seemed to be at odds with my gut feeling which was that Kovalev was winning the fight. I started questioning if they were seeing things that my tired eyes weren't. It was clear that Kovalev fatigued a little towards the end and Ward showed great resiliency but I just didn't see the supposed wondrous boxer that Ward is alleged to be. Maybe that's down to a lack of knowledge on my part rendering me unable to appreciate his supposed technical skill.

When all is said I done, I was fairly confident when the decision came that Kovalevs hand would be raised and I admit to being shocked it wasn't. I admire Wards ability not to wilt and to try and stay in the fight but I just didn't feel that he did enough. I'd certainly be happy to see a rematch though!

Atila wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Atila wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:Buddy McGirt, a big Ward fan, had Kovalev winning

'I don't think Ward did enough to beat the champion'

Do you think it's time to let it go now, Hermy?

Just like you and me have let Hagler Leonard go.

The guys who are happy with the original decision aren't the ones with anything to let go. It's the whinging losers still bitching 30 years on. I'm trying to save Hermy from years of bitterness

It's only 29 years of bitterness.

You were bitching before the fight... ringsize, number of rounds

Kareem61 wrote:Wow that was a long read! After all that I thought I'd give my two penn'orth. Going in to the fight I was convinced that Ward was going to put on some sort of masterclass, a clinic as some like to call it. I had several friends who like a bet telling me that backing Ward on points was virtually free money, then the fight began.

Almost immediately I had the overwhelming feeling that Ward was going to get beaten and beaten badly, that thought grew following the knockdown and I was convinced he didn't make it to the end of the 3rd. It turned out I was wrong.

The Sky team commentary seemed to be at odds with my gut feeling which was that Kovalev was winning the fight. I started questioning if they were seeing things that my tired eyes weren't. It was clear that Kovalev fatigued a little towards the end and Ward showed great resiliency but I just didn't see the supposed wondrous boxer that Ward is alleged to be. Maybe that's down to a lack of knowledge on my part rendering me unable to appreciate his supposed technical skill.

When all is said I done, I was fairly confident when the decision came that Kovalevs hand would be raised and I admit to being shocked it wasn't. I admire Wards ability not to wilt and to try and stay in the fight but I just didn't feel that he did enough. I'd certainly be happy to see a rematch though!

I've got to be honest, I don't think Ward is that great a boxer, like you said

He hung in there though and showed tremendous resilience

Certainly not on the level of Floyd Mayweather

Yeah he is no Floyd. You rate Floyd and Manny Boxingfan88.

I guess you understand the sport and actually watch it properly.

AdamT wrote:Yeah he is no Floyd. You rate Floyd and Manny Boxingfan88.

I guess you understand the sport and actually watch it properly.

Yeah he doesn't run as much as Floyd for a start

Herman Jaeger wrote:

AdamT wrote:Yeah he is no Floyd. You rate Floyd and Manny Boxingfan88.

I guess you understand the sport and actually watch it properly.

Yeah he doesn't run as much as Floyd for a start

Hahaha!! I love it

Atila wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Atila wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:Buddy McGirt, a big Ward fan, had Kovalev winning

'I don't think Ward did enough to beat the champion'

Do you think it's time to let it go now, Hermy?

Just like you and me have let Hagler Leonard go.

The guys who are happy with the original decision aren't the ones with anything to let go. It's the whinging losers still bitching 30 years on. I'm trying to save Hermy from years of bitterness

It's only 29 years of bitterness.

Lads, I'm meeting him Sunday. I'll ask him - once and for all - which one of you is right.

Who all thinks Hagler beat Leonard and why?

I'm not going to debate or argue, I'm just curious why you think he should have got the nod.

Ok let me put my pro Ward hat on because clearly one or two are starting to get peed off with my stance..


Is it fair to say Ward won every round from the 4th on then.....?

Because from where I was sitting you could definitely make a case for that..

Herman Jaeger wrote:Ok let me put my pro Ward hat on because clearly one or two are starting to get peed off with my stance..


Is it fair to say Ward won every round from the 4th on then.....?

Because from where I was sitting you could definitely make a case for that..

He lost the 10th for sure. Perhaps the 6th, I scored it for Ward.

How many of the opening five did Kovalev win?

The first two maybe...?

Herman Jaeger wrote:How many of the opening five did Kovalev win?

The first two maybe...?

He won 4 of the first 5. Maybe 5 in some eyes.

Just saying though Adam that if you ignore the first two aberrations which Kovalev clearly swept then if you like to score very heavily for defence then there's a very good argument to be made that Ward won every round from then on making it a 10-2 Ward kind of fight

You have to take for granted Kovalev's defensive work of his own to do this but that can easily be done if you say Ward's defensive work was superior

He's an intelligent thinking fighter, who does what he has to, including dark arts, to get the win. He's slower than he was after dicking his prime years in contract disputes and he's fighting above his prime weight.

Before the fight, people were saying if he wins this it cements his legacy etc. He gets the win and even if  (as I do) you think he was lucky to get the nod, it was a pretty even fight after the first 2 rounds.

Suddenly everyone thinks he's a bit ordinary because he didn't dazzle everyone with showy combinations against a bigger stronger guy with a power and reach advantage and very good boxing skills himself.

I was quite hoping kovalev would wipe the smug expression off his face, so I could listen to Ward thank god for getting knocked out. But it didn't happen, because the guy was cool under fire and reacted to adversity in the manner of a champion.

I don't like the holding, I don't find him easy on the eye, I have a passionate dislike for godsquadding sportsmen, but he went up in my estimation after this fight.

Is Kovalev's jab one of the best punches in boxing? The power he can generate is fearsome and he has decent speed too.

I have to admit I underestimated him slightly and thought he only dominated and old Hopkins. Hopkins was old, but nobody could do that to him.

Anyway I still think I would back Ward to win a return, but Kov is an animal and he is a very good boxer.

Wasn't the best fight ever, but it's nice seeing two top guys go head to head.

Kovalev won his rounds clearer (the first two)

But Ward won his rounds (the last ten) all by the narrowest of margins

A win is a win though..

Herman you can't just change like this. You're hurting my brain

Stick to Kovalev!!

It's clear though..

Ward's defence was better than Kovalev's offence..

6-6 or 7-5 either way then

So on to offence..

Kovalev's offence was clearly better the first two but Ward's offence was better the last ten in a sneaky kind of way the head-snapping jabs the mean right hand to the body a punch that clearly troubled the Russian

The fight was close. Kovalev dominated some rounds, though I think Ward edged more.

Kosta Tszyu thinks Kovalev didn't do enough to win.

I need to hold my hands up admit I got caught up in the calling it one way and my ego not allowing me to see the truth

I was only seeing what I wanted to see..

I think I owe you an apology

You owe nobody an apology. Don't be silly.

It's how you scored it. More people scored it for Kovalev, he has a huge case for winning. I myself liked Ward.It is what it is.

I want to see a rematch.

Fair post Adam

Wonder if any of the Sky team will reverse their opinion

After all before the fight they to the man all called it for Ward  

Sky team were always biased for fighters. I take them with a pinch of salt.

They are bigger cheerleaders of Floyd than me.

Herman Jaeger wrote:It's clear though..

Ward's defence was better than Kovalev's offence..

6-6 or 7-5 either way then

So on to offence..

Kovalev's offence was clearly better the first two but Ward's offence was better the last ten in a sneaky kind of way the head-snapping jabs the mean right hand to the body a punch that clearly troubled the Russian

Nonononononono

Don't get brain washed!!!!

BoxingFan88 wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:It's clear though..

Ward's defence was better than Kovalev's offence..

6-6 or 7-5 either way then

So on to offence..

Kovalev's offence was clearly better the first two but Ward's offence was better the last ten in a sneaky kind of way the head-snapping jabs the mean right hand to the body a punch that clearly troubled the Russian

Nonononononono

Don't get brain washed!!!!

I assumed Herman was just being ridiculously sarcastic with all these posts...

That's for me to know and the forum to find out

He's a troll, but it doesn't bother me!!

Having watched it again, I think there weren't many clear rounds:
- rounds 1,2,4,5 pretty clear to Kovalev. I also thought he took round 10 comfortably, so not sure how the judges had Ward winning that??
- rounds 7,8,9 are pretty clear Ward rounds.
The others are tighter: in my initial scoring I gave Ward 3,6 and one of the last two (can't actually remember which) and Kovalev the other, so had Kovalev by 1.

So I think it's hard to have Ward by more than one point, do to so you have to turn a blind eye to Kovalev's generally better shots. That doesn't mean having Ward winning the fight is a robbery, though it is a peculiarity of the point scoring system that judges generally score the same if a round is clearly dominated or if it's nicked (we know they're both reluctant to score 10-10, or 10-8 unless it includes a knockdown).

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Having watched it again, I think there weren't many clear rounds:
- rounds 1,2,4,5 pretty clear to Kovalev. I also thought he took round 10 comfortably, so not sure how the judges had Ward winning that??
- rounds 7,8,9 are pretty clear Ward rounds.
The others are tighter: in my initial scoring I gave Ward 3,6 and one of the last two (can't actually remember which) and Kovalev the other, so had Kovalev by 1.

So I think it's hard to have Ward by more than one point, do to so you have to turn a blind eye to Kovalev's generally better shots. That doesn't mean having Ward winning the fight is a robbery, though it is a peculiarity of the point scoring system that judges generally score the same if a round is clearly dominated or if it's nicked (we know they're both reluctant to score 10-10, or 10-8 unless it includes a knockdown).

I am similar to you but gave Ward 11 and 12. 6 was really, really close too. If I had gave Kov that round, he would of won.

I don't know how Ward got round 10 in the bag. It was Kov's best round since the knock down. He was a clear winner in that round.

Corruption maybe?

Collusion?

6 is a clear Kovalev round

If you're going to cook a card, in this case you'd give ward, 3,4,5,6 and if he got ahead on merit, you'd give a few back to kov later on. You wouldn't pre decide to give the last 6 rounds. What happens if he gets spanked in one of them? Either they're stupidly corrupt or the conspiracy theory is pile of blocks

Oleksandr Gavozdyk on the fight:

https://youtu.be/5VJwa44LpBw

Could not see how Ward won that and I'm a fan of his. Even with my Ward tinted glasses I scored it 115-112 Kovalev.

Also find it quite bizarre that in a fight where the scoring could have varied quite widely all three judges scored the same.

Don't think it was a conspiracy and certainly not a robbery. Things can look different at ringside.

The more you think about it the more you realise what a terrible decision it was