Ward vs Kovalev - Who've you got?

First topic message reminder :

I can’t let a fight as big as this weekend pass without a thread asking for folks thoughts. For me this is one of those odd fights that I am looking forward to enormously but suspect might well fail to ignite. I suspect intriguing rather than exciting may accurately describe it. Got to say since this has been announced I have been picking Ward. I rate both of them highly but just think Ward is a special talent, a lot more rounded and like Mayweather one with an exceptional ability to shut opponents down and neutralise them.
 
That being said Kovalev is no underdog or no hoper, this is a genuinely close fight, and one in which you can make an argument either way. Whilst people rightly wax lyrical about Kovalev’s power his boxing ability should not be underplayed, few since Jones have solved the numerous riddles Hopkins poses so effectively. Also he is a natural big hitting light heavy, something Ward has never faced, whilst his defence has always looked solid at super middle he is not completely unhittable. Froch had his moments where he was able to land, so one would assume Sergey will be able to do likewise. How Ward stands up to that is one of the big questions in this one.
 
Also whilst Ward is hardly an old man his career post Super six has had more stops and starts than me attempting to run a marathon. Being in the ring with Kovalev would not be a place I would want to be blowing off a dose of ring rust. Despite that, I still think Ward will be victorious, he is smart at tying up/holding on the inside and fast enough that he will score with plenty when the fight is at range. If the ref is pretty easy going when it comes to his holding inside, and thus far he has tended to get away with it, I think he will secure the win on points.
 
All of this almost certainly guarantees you can put your house on Kovalev, but irrespective of the outcome I cannot wait for this fight. A genuine talent moving up to take on the best the division above him has to offer, this is the sort of fight the sport needs more of.

I would give a well structured argument with reasons why as I have done before

But it's pointless

Just know that unless you bring some facts to the argument you are not going to be able to convince me

I've seen people who are far more knowledgeable about boxing than I will ever be explain it

I'll believe them

You do that but the better boxer is the won who wins not the one you prefer.

So Pacquiao is a better boxer than marquez right?

He won the second and third fight

Ward deservedly beat Kovalev, it was in no shape or form a robbery.

Pacman/Marquez two was decided by the early knockdown whereas Marquez was screwed in the third fight, you seem unable to differentiate between a screwjob and a close fight.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You do that but the better boxer is the won who wins not the one you prefer.

So that makes Salido a better boxer than Loma...

Now I understand

Not a fan of either, but the one who puts the most hurt on the other should get the win.

you should not give the win to the guy who clinches and runs the most, and puts on the least amount of hurt.

I won't even get into fouls (counted 89 by Ward but let's just round it down to 80)

You've been banging on about the rules of boxing and the amount of hurt isn't a judging criteria is it or are you now changing your tune, you seem unable to understand round by round scoring.

Ward won/lost a very close fight. Marquez was blatantly robbed in the third fight. Maybe the first too.

No question who the better fighter was in the 4th fight.

Blatantly robbed

Judges didn't think so

See you can't change the rules based on an opinion

Now you're being stupid, there's a clear difference between a close contentious decision and one that is clearly wrong.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You've been banging on about the rules of boxing and the amount of hurt isn't a judging criteria is it or are you now changing your tune, you seem unable to understand round by round scoring.

What?

Your point is?

Harrier are you really Max Kellerman?

The point Dylan is you don't have a clue, quoting archaic rules that no longer have any relevance and making up your own way of scoring fights.

I watched the fight again during lunch, still scored it for Ward. Think might even give him the 5th too. Kovalev wasn't effective enough after 4th.

Lot of close rounds though.

Yeah, Ward rallied in the second half of the fight with his 'vicious' body punching...

okay

Ward gets all the close rounds? How?

After 6 it was 5-1 to Kov plus the knock down or is that now a flash knock down?

the second half, at best for Ward it was 3-3.

Not a fan of either, but please don't tell me I'm not debating with some Ward fan boys on here.

AdamT wrote:Ward won/lost a very close fight. Marquez was blatantly robbed in the third fight. Maybe the first too.

No question who the better fighter was in the 4th fight.

Actually manny looked the better fighter in the 4th!

Just cuz you close the gap in the second half of the fight doesn't mean you are winning.

Simple maths

I couldn't care less. Even if that was my brother in there who clearly lost, I'm not gonna keep saying he won just cuz he's my brother.

The backlash in the UK is non existent but in the States, the media will not let this go. Real fans of boxing know the score. Those who put fighters up on a pedestal and back em no matter what just makes me wonder..why?

milkyboy wrote:

AdamT wrote:Ward won/lost a very close fight. Marquez was blatantly robbed in the third fight. Maybe the first too.

No question who the better fighter was in the 4th fight.

Actually manny looked the better fighter in the 4th!

Agree

This isn't intended to wind anyone up (and so if it does, please just ignore it).

Kovalev should have won the fight. Ward fans are naturally going to score the close rounds for their man and end up with the 114-113 score. The bottom line is that Kovalev dominated the first six rounds on the cards while the second half of the fight was nip and tuck (with Kovalev finishing well in rounds 10 and 12).

75% of polled media scored for Kovalev and while being "media" (and that term can be used loosely these days) doesn't guarantee you can score a fight (in fact, it categorically doesn't in some cases - especially the guy who had it to Ward by five!) that is a decent representation of popular opinion.

Looking at the scores, I'd say the consensus card was 115-112 Kovalev. It wasn't a fight that could have gone either way. Like Frampton over Quigg and LSC, it was a clear victory for Kovalev (albeit close enough in rounds for some to try and make a case for Ward).

Those claiming to have watched it 4 or 5 times appear to be searching for rounds to give Ward. If they were honest, they'd admit that themselves.

At the end of the day, both men came out of the fight with a huge amount of credit. In a rare move for 2016, they were willing to put it all on the line against their toughest rival while still in their primes. That counts for a hell of a lot.

hazharrison wrote:
75% of polled media scored for Kovalev and while being "media" (and that term can be used loosely these days) doesn't guarantee you can score a fight (in fact, it categorically doesn't in some cases - especially the guy who had it to Ward by five!) that is a decent representation of popular opinion.

Looking at the scores, I'd say the consensus card was 115-112 Kovalev. It wasn't a fight that could have gone either way. Like Frampton over Quigg and LSC, it was a clear victory for Kovalev (albeit close enough in rounds for some to try and make a case for Ward).

Those claiming to have watched it 4 or 5 times appear to be searching for rounds to give Ward. If they were honest, they'd admit that themselves.

At the end of the day, both men came out of the fight with a huge amount of credit. In a rare move for 2016, they were willing to put it all on the line against their toughest rival while still in their primes. That counts for a hell of a lot.

You really are a self righteous clown, I have no idea why you have this false idea that you're the voice of reason, all you do is relentlessly back those you like and bash those you don't hence the conclusion you've come to. Your opinion is no more valid than anyone elses and it's about time you realised that not everyone agrees with you, starting think Truss was right and you do have mental issues. For that reason i'll no longer debate you as it can't be good for your health.

Dylan1979 wrote:Just cuz you close the gap in the second half of the fight doesn't mean you are winning.

Simple maths

I couldn't care less. Even if that was my brother in there who clearly lost, I'm not gonna keep saying he won just cuz he's my brother.

The backlash in the UK is non existent but in the States, the media will not let this go. Real fans of boxing know the score. Those who put fighters up on a pedestal and back em no matter what just  makes me wonder..why?

It's a simple difference of opinion, neither man clearly won hence why there is such a level of disagreement, nothing wrong with scoring it to Kovalev but don't make out it's the only option. Real fans of boxing are those who are in disagreement or is your definition everyone that agrees with you. After all you've shown your knowledge with your falsehoods about the Queensbury rules and how to score a fight.

Hazharrison - a man with sense

Thankyou

Close fight my ass!

Just makes me mad that Ward fans are calling it a close fight as a way of justifying the win.

Close it was not. I thought 8-4 or even 9-3 was right.

No point speaking to fan boys - always chat the same garbage
"my man won cuz he got his hand raised" PLEEEEEEEEZ!!!

is what it is man, is what it is.

Got a feeling Kov is pretty content right now, despite what happened. He knows Ward can't do Poopie to him, and it will be a pissed of Kov in the rematch.

Watch out SOJ

I'm sure Kov is really content seeing Ward with those belts around his waist.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

hazharrison wrote:
75% of polled media scored for Kovalev and while being "media" (and that term can be used loosely these days) doesn't guarantee you can score a fight (in fact, it categorically doesn't in some cases - especially the guy who had it to Ward by five!) that is a decent representation of popular opinion.

Looking at the scores, I'd say the consensus card was 115-112 Kovalev. It wasn't a fight that could have gone either way. Like Frampton over Quigg and LSC, it was a clear victory for Kovalev (albeit close enough in rounds for some to try and make a case for Ward).

Those claiming to have watched it 4 or 5 times appear to be searching for rounds to give Ward. If they were honest, they'd admit that themselves.

At the end of the day, both men came out of the fight with a huge amount of credit. In a rare move for 2016, they were willing to put it all on the line against their toughest rival while still in their primes. That counts for a hell of a lot.

You really are a self righteous clown, I have no idea why you have this false idea that you're the voice of reason, all you do is relentlessly back those you like and bash those you don't hence the conclusion you've come to. Your opinion is no more valid than anyone elses and it's about time you realised that not everyone agrees with you, starting think Truss was right and you do have mental issues. For that reason i'll no longer debate you as it can't be good for your health.

I do often feel like McMurphy round here. And while I know I should have as little to do with Nurse Ratched as possible, there's just that little rebellious streak in me...

Good move ignoring my posts - you seem upset when someone puts you right on things.

Ward will win a rematch. It's Floyd and Castillo over again, only I think Ward did enough.

The next fight will be easier to split and it won't be 75/25.

It will 100 for Ward. I'm confident he will win again.

Dylan1979 wrote:Hazharrison - a man with sense

Thankyou

Close fight my ass!

Just makes me mad that Ward fans are calling it a close fight as a way of justifying the win.

Close it was not. I thought 8-4 or even 9-3 was right.

No point speaking to fan boys - always chat the same garbage
"my man won cuz he got his hand raised"  PLEEEEEEEEZ!!!

is what it is man, is what it is.

Got a feeling Kov is pretty content right now, despite what happened. He knows Ward can't do Poopie to him, and it will be a pissed of Kov in the rematch.

Watch out SOJ

You're right. It is what it is. People can lose their nuts on forums the world over but most people felt Kovalev won the fight and that's how it will go years from now.

Hopefully they can fight again and we'll get a decisive and deserving winner.

AdamT wrote:Ward will win a rematch. It's Floyd and Castillo over again, only I think Ward did enough.

The next fight will be easier to split and it won't be 75/25.

It will 100 for Ward. I'm confident he will win again.

I think he'll win a rematch. If he can win on that effort, he just needs to stay upright and start earlier to gain favour with the judges. Kovalev would need something big to win.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I'm sure Kov is really content seeing Ward with those belts around his waist.

Ward is just holding em mate, just holding em.

So 75% of media think Kov won, but that doesn't mean anything right?

If that was a close fight then I'm Kenny Bayliss

Harrier maybe you've never competed in any sport, dunno...

When you lose to somebody when you really won, that does give you the mental edge over the other guy, especially the way Kov clearly beat your boi.

Comprendez? Take your time....penny will drop, eventually.

Dylan1979 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I'm sure Kov is really content seeing Ward with those belts around his waist.

Ward is just holding em mate, just holding em.

So 75% of media think Kov won, but that doesn't mean anything right?

If that was a close fight then I'm Kenny Bayliss

It means absolutely nothing, I suppose the media matter more than judges or do we make up our own minds instead?

Haz I agree. Though kov knowing he can hurt Ward, means he might fancy getting it done inside the distance.

Dylan1979 wrote:Harrier maybe you've never competed in any sport, dunno...

When you lose to somebody when you really won, that does give you the mental edge over the other guy, especially the way Kov clearly beat your boi.

Comprendez? Take your time....penny will drop, eventually.

They're just cliches and generalisations, there is no way of telling how the result affects either of them, for instance look Nelson/Fenech (an actual robbery) the rightful winner was destroyed in the rematch. Ward and Kovalev are both top class sportsmen who go into every fight in top condition, this fight will make no difference to that.

The only thing that will play on Kov's mind is the judges and ref.

Wards ability in the ring, legal boxing ability will not worry Kov one bit.

I don't think any top drawer boxer goes into a fight worrying about what the other can do, you focus on your own gameplan, again another tired useless cliche.

AdamT wrote:Haz I agree. Though kov knowing he can hurt Ward, means he might fancy getting it done inside the distance.

I think he'll feel he HAS to. That plays into Ward's hands (if he can hang tough and start earlier).

It was Kovalev's jab that messed Ward up so badly. Hell of a weapon.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Dylan1979 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I'm sure Kov is really content seeing Ward with those belts around his waist.

Ward is just holding em mate, just holding em.

So 75% of media think Kov won, but that doesn't mean anything right?

If that was a close fight then I'm Kenny Bayliss

It means absolutely nothing, I suppose the media matter more than judges or do we make up our own minds instead?

Judges can't be bought? Can they? Dre knew pre fight, stay up and you will get the win! Two of em gave Ward 7-12 ffs. HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?

SOMEBODY PLZ TELL ME

I can't debate with somebody who uses short hand sorry.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Dylan1979 wrote:Harrier maybe you've never competed in any sport, dunno...

When you lose to somebody when you really won, that does give you the mental edge over the other guy, especially the way Kov clearly beat your boi.

Comprendez? Take your time....penny will drop, eventually.

They're just cliches and generalisations, there is no way of telling how the result affects either of them, for instance look Nelson/Fenech (an actual robbery) the rightful winner was destroyed in the rematch. Ward and Kovalev are both top class sportsmen who go into every fight in top condition, this fight will make no difference to that.

Ward - top class sportsman?!! GTFOH!!!

Man has a game based on constant fouling. Yes he's won titles etc but plz do not take the piss.

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:Haz I agree. Though kov knowing he can hurt Ward, means he might fancy getting it done inside the distance.

I think he'll feel he HAS to. That plays into Ward's hands (if he can hang tough and start earlier).

It was Kovalev's jab that messed Ward up so badly. Hell of a weapon.

His jab is almost like a power punch. Seriously underrated weapon.

So the Judges cannot be bought?

two judges gave Ward rounds 7-12. (all 6)

Now either I was smoking crack during the fight or they got paid.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I can't debate with somebody who uses short hand sorry.

You mean you can't explain it.

Cheers mate.

Dylan1979 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:Haz I agree. Though kov knowing he can hurt Ward, means he might fancy getting it done inside the distance.

I think he'll feel he HAS to. That plays into Ward's hands (if he can hang tough and start earlier).

It was Kovalev's jab that messed Ward up so badly. Hell of a weapon.

His jab is almost like a power punch. Seriously underrated weapon.

Accurate, too. De la Hoya had a great left jab but my goodness, he used to miss with it more than he landed (especially over the second half of his career). Used to drive me round the bend.

I know i'm new on here but who are the Wardettes anyway?

Many Ward fans on here? Be honest please

Knowing you are a Ward fan will help me to understand why you think he won. It's cool, I was the same when I was at school, always saying my team or fighter deserved the win, even when they were clearly beaten.

hazharrison wrote:

Dylan1979 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:Haz I agree. Though kov knowing he can hurt Ward, means he might fancy getting it done inside the distance.

I think he'll feel he HAS to. That plays into Ward's hands (if he can hang tough and start earlier).

It was Kovalev's jab that messed Ward up so badly. Hell of a weapon.

His jab is almost like a power punch. Seriously underrated weapon.

Accurate, too. De la Hoya had a great left jab but my goodness, he used to miss with it more than he landed (especially over the second half of his career). Used to drive me round the bend.

Yeah he had quality jab. Was my fave fighter at one point. Great the way he didn't give a f**k about losing and fought anyone and everyone, at least to my knowledge anyway.

It's a pity Oscar didn't promote the way he fought. I rib GGG, but his boy is avoiding him.

GGG vs Canelo needs to happen next year.

The judges got it wrong in this one. It happens.

However ward has seen some weird scorecards against him as well. I had him beating froch with plenty of room but the scorecards in that one were also way off, even though ward got the result. I think one judge gave froch 5 of the first 6 rounds!

There needs to be a rematch. The score needs settled. Hopefully the next fight will have a very clear winner.

Ppv numbers are rumoured to be 160k. F..k that's really low.

I had Ward beating Froch 7-5